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Thread: UUUUUG Van Down.

  1. #1
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    Default UUUUUG Van Down.

    So this morning I was setting up Van #1 our oldest van. I go to start it up so I can use the built in shop vac / water and lights in the grooming section. It's been sitting for a day, and it starts up rough with a whirring noise like a fan clicking and almost sounds like the starter is still going, I'm so not a engine mechanic. Anyway, I shut the engine off and it sounds like it's still trying to start. I try starting it again and it starts but is making that whirring noise again.

    So what do I do I open the hood, like LOOKING at the engine is going to point out an obvious problem. Just as I open the engine and pretend like I'm a mechanic, the whirring STOPS and the engine idles perfectly fine.

    I do my maintenance in the grooming section and drive it to fill up with up the fresh water tank in the back. I drive it back to it's parking spot and turn it off, no problem.

    For some reason I say, ya know what let me just start it up again and make sure everything is OK


    PROBLEM !!!! It doesn't start, click nothing, click nothing, not even an attempt to turn over. I just had this vans basic service and AC re-charged. It's basically a bulletproof MB Diesel. I go and get my Jeep in an attempt to possibly jump it. NOTHING !!!!

    So now my options are first thing in the morning get it towed to my service guy, and reschedule, reschedule, reschedule NIGHTMARE Monday morning
    This post is temporary and my disappear at the discretion of the managment

  2. #2
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    Default Re: UUUUUG Van Down.

    Sounds like maybe your starter motor didn't retract, or the solenoid stuck on until it burned up.

    Bummer, but you could have it fixed by tomorrow probably to avoid your reschedule nightmare, starter motors are usually just two bolts and the solenoid is also easy. Unless on MB vans, everything is buried and you need to pull the engine and get a new engine control module... possible these days!

  3. #3
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    Default Re: UUUUUG Van Down.

    First, check the batteries for charge with a meter.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: UUUUUG Van Down.

    Quote Originally Posted by L.W. Baxter View Post
    First, check the batteries for charge with a meter.
    Did that Battery is fine
    Also it didn't take a Jump - thinking because it didn't NEED a jump
    Last edited by Joe (SoCal); 04-14-2019 at 12:01 PM.
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  5. #5
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    Default Re: UUUUUG Van Down.

    Bummer, sounds like the starter may have crapped the bed. I’m no mechanic either , BUT if you know what the starter looks like you MIGHT try lightly tapping it with a hammer or crest wrench while someone else turns the key .

    I’d LOOK for burnt wires in the engine cavity FIRST, it could simply be a loose battery cable, our diesel flat bed trucks has been known to having starting issues simple due to loose wires. Start with that , grab the wires and wiggle , if they move tighten the nuts or bolts.

    Good luck!!
    Last edited by Paul Girouard; 04-14-2019 at 12:08 PM.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: UUUUUG Van Down.

    Going back out with a wrench and a flashlight - My goal is to just get it started to drive it to the Mechanic for Monday morning
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    Default Re: UUUUUG Van Down.

    Quote Originally Posted by L.W. Baxter View Post
    First, check the batteries for charge with a meter.

    Checking a battery with a multi meter is a waste of time. A meter has zero load , just like one remaining strand of wire can read correct voltage on a meter , a strand or wire will not care a load.

    You could pull the battery and go to a parts house and they can test it, but a multi meter isn’t going to tell a true story, IMO, YMMV.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: UUUUUG Van Down.

    It's DEAD


    Nothing I can do but wait until tomorrow morning and get it towed to the mechanic - fun fact AAA does not do commercial vehicles so $400 + flatbed towing yay me


    Now to reschedule and reshuffle nightmare, there goes a nice stress relieving bike ride.
    This post is temporary and my disappear at the discretion of the managment

  9. #9
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    Default Re: UUUUUG Van Down.

    https://www.samarins.com/diagnose/


    Check this link out , might be something simple, might be worth another few trouble shooting minutes after you schedule the tow .

  10. #10
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    Default Re: UUUUUG Van Down.

    On jump starting , you MIGHT have a “really” dead battery, you MIGHT try hooking up the jumper cables again and rev. The engine on the jump vehicle up for a timed ten minutes , NOT a peddle to the metal type idle , BUT a high idle. It allows the jumping vehicle to act like a battery charger. A really dead battery it takes more then a quick jump some times , to fire the starter off.
    Again the meter reading could be lying to you. IF you actually did put a meter on the battery.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: UUUUUG Van Down.

    In the transport industry, at least in Europe, there are repair shops / garages doing night and weekend work. Try to find out with your garage if they provide such a service - at a premium surely, but in a case like this, it is worth it. Having to reschedule means loosing some customer confidence.

    Another step - if you run a single design fleet - would be to stock some standard spares yourself. A battery, a starter motor, an alternator, fan belts, ... . Then, you only need a mechanic to change them.
    Last edited by Henning 4148; 04-14-2019 at 01:30 PM.

  12. #12
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    Default Re: UUUUUG Van Down.

    Quote Originally Posted by Henning 4148 View Post
    In the transport industry, at least in Europe, there are repair shops / garages doing night and weekend work. Try to find out with your garage if they provide such a service - at a premium surely, but in a case like this, it is worth it. Having to reschedule means loosing customer confidence.
    You need to find a good mobile service guy. The truck operation is too critical to your business. Sounds like the starter crapped out to me. You could pull the battery and have it load tested.
    Tom

  13. #13
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    Default Re: UUUUUG Van Down.

    Tom, you are right. The service outfit also needs a service / repair van to be able to come to the vehicle that is down. Such services are quite common in the transport industry. The wheels must keep turning if at all possible. I am not saying you need a new garage, but you need to make sure with them that you can get the service you need. And you might discuss the topic of spare parts stockholding with them as well. If they can not offer a solution - time to start looking for alternatives.

    The weekend / night / service vans are certainly not cheap. But when needed, you need access to such service if you want to increase van availability.
    Last edited by Henning 4148; 04-14-2019 at 01:39 PM.

  14. #14
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    Default Re: UUUUUG Van Down.

    Quote Originally Posted by Henning 4148 View Post
    Tom, you are right. The service outfit also needs a service / repair van to be able to come to the vehicle that is down.
    Exactly. Repair it where it sits. They are out there and would be well worth the money, especially is a tow is 400.00.
    Tom

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    Default Re: UUUUUG Van Down.

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe (SoCal) View Post
    So this morning I was setting up Van #1 our oldest van. I go to start it up so I can use the built in shop vac / water and lights in the grooming section. It's been sitting for a day, and it starts up rough with a whirring noise like a fan clicking and almost sounds like the starter is still going, I'm so not a engine mechanic. Anyway, I shut the engine off and it sounds like it's still trying to start. I try starting it again and it starts but is making that whirring noise again.

    So what do I do I open the hood, like LOOKING at the engine is going to point out an obvious problem. Just as I open the engine and pretend like I'm a mechanic, the whirring STOPS and the engine idles perfectly fine.

    I do my maintenance in the grooming section and drive it to fill up with up the fresh water tank in the back. I drive it back to it's parking spot and turn it off, no problem.

    For some reason I say, ya know what let me just start it up again and make sure everything is OK


    PROBLEM !!!! It doesn't start, click nothing, click nothing, not even an attempt to turn over. I just had this vans basic service and AC re-charged. It's basically a bulletproof MB Diesel. I go and get my Jeep in an attempt to possibly jump it. NOTHING !!!!

    So now my options are first thing in the morning get it towed to my service guy, and reschedule, reschedule, reschedule NIGHTMARE Monday morning
    Your Jeep went down too????
    Enjoy a good rum on the rocks at sunset.

  16. #16
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    Default Re: UUUUUG Van Down.

    I might speculate that your starter may have stayed engaged with the flywheel and spun up with the engine which in turn ruined the starter.
    And if this is the scenario, at a minimum you will need a new starter. You will also need to know why this happened.
    But - I'm just guessing...

    Edit; I have a service truck but am booked today

  17. #17
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    Default Re: UUUUUG Van Down.

    Borrowed from 'Cartoons'
    Quote Originally Posted by Garret View Post
    I know it's not a cartoon - but it does involve cars...

    Attachment 35031
    Enjoy a good rum on the rocks at sunset.

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  19. #19
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    Default Re: UUUUUG Van Down.

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe (SoCal) View Post
    It's DEAD


    Nothing I can do but wait until tomorrow morning and get it towed to the mechanic - fun fact AAA does not do commercial vehicles so $400 + flatbed towing yay me


    Now to reschedule and reshuffle nightmare, there goes a nice stress relieving bike ride.
    Cultivate a relationship with a AAA towing place, talk to the owner.

    He will tow it and happen to not mention to AAA it is a commercial van. Get the RV plan from AAA. $85.00 a year here.

    It works here, I know from personal experience. More than once. He just tells me to call him directly before I call AAA and tell them I want him to tow it.

  20. #20
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    Default Re: UUUUUG Van Down.

    Many commercial vehicle garages are open 24/ 7, call the nearest truck stop. Also, smack the starter with a Hamer near the shaft. I’ve spent most of my life dealing with commercial vehicles.
    Pet photography, the degree you get when you fail aromatherapy - Duck D.

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    Default Re: UUUUUG Van Down.

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe (SoCal) View Post
    It doesn't start, click nothing, click nothing, not even an attempt to turn over. I just had this vans basic service and AC re-charged. It's basically a bulletproof MB Diesel. I go and get my Jeep in an attempt to possibly jump it. NOTHING !!!!
    Looking at the runes, here, and punting a guess. EGR valve.

    Andy
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  22. #22
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    Default Re: UUUUUG Van Down.

    I'm thinking starter celluloid, I mean solenoid, too. But could be a lotta things. Like starter relay. I helped out a guy with a grand cherokee stuck in traffic, all the relays were the same, it was a blue sky day, swapped the wiper relay for the starter relay, fired right up, showed him what to replace when he got home.
    When you can take the pebble from my hand, it will be time for you to leave.

  23. #23
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    Default Re: UUUUUG Van Down.

    Quote Originally Posted by Canoeyawl View Post
    I might speculate that your starter may have stayed engaged with the flywheel and spun up with the engine which in turn ruined the starter.
    And if this is the scenario, at a minimum you will need a new starter. You will also need to know why this happened.
    But - I'm just guessing...

    Edit; I have a service truck but am booked today
    I realize you'll be going to the dealer, but I'd say this sounds exactly right.

    I'd add that a sticky bendix/bad solenoid could've caused it (& that will be a part of the new starter - so no worries if that was the case & you get a new starter). I'm hoping it didn't damage the flywheel as well!

    I'll also second (third, fourth, whatever) finding a garage that does mobile service. In an area as populous as yours, there must be many.
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

  24. #24
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    Default Re: UUUUUG Van Down.

    Part of running a small business is fixing stuff. Running out an buying a starter would have been a good idea.

    Having a mechanic available 24/7 is another good idea. Even with that running out and buying the parts would have been a good idea.
    Life is complex.

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    Default Re: UUUUUG Van Down.

    Quote Originally Posted by Too Little Time View Post
    Part of running a small business is fixing stuff. Running out an buying a starter would have been a good idea.

    Having a mechanic available 24/7 is another good idea. Even with that running out and buying the parts would have been a good idea.
    Many years ago I [and sometimes one of my guys] worked by flashlight laying under a truck fixing it so it could go out and make money the next day.

    Those days are over now with newer machines and backups but when you are starting out and every penny counts you gotta do what you gotta do.

    The guys who don't go out of business.

  26. #26
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    Default Re: UUUUUG Van Down.

    So, how old and how many miles on this van?
    There is nothing quite as permanent as a good temporary repair.

  27. #27
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Henning 4148 View Post
    In the transport industry, at least in Europe, there are repair shops / garages doing night and weekend work. Try to find out with your garage if they provide such a service - at a premium surely, but in a case like this, it is worth it. Having to reschedule means loosing some customer confidence.



    Another step - if you run a single design fleet - would be to stock some standard spares yourself. A battery, a starter motor, an alternator, fan belts, ... . Then, you only need a mechanic to change them.

    This.

    Friend of mine runs an HVAC company. Had a bunch M-B Sprinters. They've mostly been replace with Ford Transits. The Sprinters — too unreliable and too expensive to repair.




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  28. #28
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    Default Re: UUUUUG Van Down.

    Put the truck in drive and rock the van forward and aft for 5-10 minutes. Try to start. That always worked on my 66 mini when the starter motor gear got stuck on flywheel. If that doesn’t disengage or if thevan won’t start, then you likely gave a starter or relay failure. If it does start you probably have a dying starter or a buggered up piñon gear on starter.

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    Default Re: UUUUUG Van Down.

    Quote Originally Posted by john l View Post
    Put the truck in drive and rock the van forward and aft for 5-10 minutes. Try to start. That always worked on my 66 mini when the starter motor gear got stuck on flywheel. If that doesn’t disengage or if thevan won’t start, then you likely gave a starter or relay failure. If it does start you probably have a dying starter or a buggered up piñon gear on starter.
    It's likely an automatic.
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

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    Default Re: UUUUUG Van Down.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stiletto View Post
    So, how old and how many miles on this van?
    It's European, so more than five years or 100,000km, good luck.
    Slightly OT, I looked at getting a little A Class Mercedes for our daughter as a first car. Used, they are ridiculously cheap, but often advertised as have starter motor issues - the engine imobiliser has a component right on the starter. But hey, finest German quality, ja!
    How hard can it be, thinks I? About two minutes of googling revealed that changing the starter on an A Class is literally an "engine out" job. We passed on that idea.

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    Default Re: UUUUUG Van Down.

    The old truckers lament, "If them wheels ain't turnin', you aint' earnin' "
    "Many a time freedom has been rolled back - and always for the same sorry reason: fear." - Molly Ivins

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    Default Re: UUUUUG Van Down.

    Quote Originally Posted by Katherine View Post
    Many commercial vehicle garages are open 24/ 7, call the nearest truck stop. Also, smack the starter with a Hamer near the shaft. I’ve spent most of my life dealing with commercial vehicles.
    This

    P.s. if smacking it with a hammer fixes it, go directly to your mechanic.
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    Default Re: UUUUUG Van Down.

    Quote Originally Posted by Too Little Time View Post
    Part of running a small business is fixing stuff. Running out an buying a starter would have been a good idea.

    Having a mechanic available 24/7 is another good idea. Even with that running out and buying the parts would have been a good idea.

    This.

    I run a hire fleet with 30 or so bikes. Some are "spares"... or out of the line to be fixed. I've been gaining a reputation for having the best-maintained bikes.... but that costs margin. I now have a mechanic (of sorts) on staff. He's not formally trained and I've had to show him some things, but he's a smart lad. We draw a line between what's sensible and easy for us to do and what we ship out to the trained mechanics.

    The other day, I had a German customer in Laos, two day's drive away, who had a brake cylinder seal blow. I pulled the cylinder and fluid reservoir from another DRZ and put it on the afternoon flight to Luang Prabang. Problem solved in under 24 hours - cost $12. I'd have driven it over if need be.
    "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome and charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" Mark Twain... so... Carpe the living sh!t out of the Diem

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    Default Re: UUUUUG Van Down.

    Quote Originally Posted by C.Collins View Post
    Cultivate a relationship with a AAA towing place, talk to the owner.

    He will tow it and happen to not mention to AAA it is a commercial van. Get the RV plan from AAA. $85.00 a year here.

    It works here, I know from personal experience. More than once. He just tells me to call him directly before I call AAA and tell them I want him to tow it.
    So lie, deceive and have others do the same for you - to get what you want.

    The way of the world

  35. #35
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    Default Re: UUUUUG Van Down.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Bow View Post
    The old truckers lament, "If them wheels ain't turnin', you aint' earnin' "
    That's what I grew up with. If the trucks didn't role then there was no money coming in.
    Pet photography, the degree you get when you fail aromatherapy - Duck D.

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