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Thread: CLC eastport pram

  1. #36
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    Default Re: CLC eastport pram

    you might consider routing a roundover on the inside of the hand holds before you put the seats in

    sw
    "we are the people, our parents warned us about" (jb)

    steve

  2. #37
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    Dusty, yes the planks have been glued, and that is the problem.

    The bow and the stern panels weren't even close to fitting properly although I did get the transom to fit pretty good but I'm having a Dickens of a time with the bow.

    Options:
    1, Make a larger bow panel.
    2, Saw separate the plank joints.
    3, Go for and live with a very large fillet!
    4, put the bow panel on the ends of the planks (I don't like this idea)
    Last edited by DeniseO30; 04-15-2019 at 09:45 PM.
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

  3. #38
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    Default Re: CLC eastport pram

    Interesting conundrum. Could you heat the plank seams enough to break 'em free without damaging the ply?

  4. #39
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    I don't even want to try that Hugh,

    Took about an eighth of an inch off the bottom center that helped quite a bit.

    The bow panel has been breaking the little knubs off the top which will make bow panel top flush with the the sheer plank top edge, not a bad thing.
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

  5. #40
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    Default Re: CLC eastport pram

    Quote Originally Posted by DeniseO30 View Post
    Dusty, yes the planks have been glued, and that is the problem. (And probably why the boat wasn't finished)

    The bow and the stern panels weren't even close to fitting properly although I did get the transom to fit pretty good but I'm having a Dickens of a time with the bow.

    Options:
    1, Make a larger bow panel.
    2, Saw separate the plank joints.
    3, Go for and live with a very large fillet!
    4, put the bow panel on the ends of the planks (I don't like this idea)
    1. For aesthetics this could be the best easy solution. I would definitely make sure you have side to side symmetry and no twist in the hull before scribing another transom. ( btw, a 4 foot level is a much better tool than winking sticks to check for twist)

    2. See Hugh's quote regarding heat. Realigning planks in the proper place would be the most craftsman, craftswoman or crafts non-binary way of doing things. The only problem with heat is that is that you would need to remove ALL of the thickened epoxy from the rabbet and that might hard if you only partially separate the planks. If you saw them you would definitely need to glass the joint, probably on both sides.

    3. Definitely going to be the quickest and dirtiest way. You would absolutely need to glass this though, with maybe several layers. Thickened epoxy, while tremendously strong, is quite brittle. If you're going paint this is the way to go.

    4. No, just no.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh MacD View Post
    Interesting conundrum. Could you heat the plank seams enough to break 'em free without damaging the ply?

  6. #41
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    Persistence! = Results!

    Somehow... I got it to fit, drilled lots of little holes and twisted lots of little pieces of wire, holding it all together!
    I used my pointed bar clamps to draw the planks against the panel this time after about 50 tries; It inexplicably went into place, actually closer to the ends of the of the planks that it was originally.

    whew!

    I'll double-check, true up everything tomorrow! Make sure it all goes where it's supposed to,. and *maybe* mix up some glue, & tack the panels in place so we can start removing wire ties!

    (I have a friend that loves to take things apart)

    Once again the center bulkhead is basically the key to the shape of the whole boat.

    Last edited by DeniseO30; 04-15-2019 at 09:45 PM.
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

  7. #42
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    Default Re: CLC eastport pram

    WOW! MUCH better! Good effort.

  8. #43
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    Thanks Hugh! It really was a knock-down drag-out battle getting that piece back in there!
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

  9. #44
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    "tack welds"
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

  10. #45
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    Default Re: CLC eastport pram

    I'm glad to see everything coming together without major surgery.

  11. #46
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    Default Re: CLC eastport pram

    Indeed! Looking great! You're an inspiration Denise. Now I have to finish off all my other projects so I can tack up my Skerry

  12. #47
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    Thank you!

    I was trying to do two hours a day on it, but even that is taking it's toll on me so I have to take a break. Seems like anything I do anymore just makes me ache all over but on the other hand if I do nothing I ache all over!,🤣

    Pulling out the wire ties that's going to take a while!

    I noticed some of the plank laps on the outside are open more than they "should be" hoping a little bit of hand planing correct that. (Probably because this little boat is made with wide planks instead of more & narrow planks)

    On the center thwart,centerboard trunk, and bulkhead, any reason I can't assemble them upside down and then glue it the boat? By doing so, I won't have to work upside down fillets. (Double, triple check square and alignment of all pieces first)

    Also thinking (there I go again!). the centerboard slot could be cut before glassing the bottom this way I can glass the inside edges. I will have to check width of the center board in relation to the slot. I still have graphite powder (for the centerboard) but in my experience it's not worth the trouble.
    Last edited by DeniseO30; 04-17-2019 at 08:04 AM.
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

  13. #48
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    Default Re: CLC eastport pram

    I hear ya Denise! I'll be 71 this summer and I feel every hour of working in those odd bent over positions more each year. But I feel worse just sitting! Are you planning on painting? Might be worth just clipping the wires flush and sanding them smooth since they'll be fully encapsulated by the fillets. That's what I've always done...but none of my boats ever sit in the water for long. Don't think I'd do that on a moored boat. But a dinghy like yours it should be fine.

    Never tried assembling upside down...let us know if it works (if you try it). Could save some backaches!

  14. #49
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    Not too shabby! Just set bulkheads and thwarts in place.

    I do NOT LIKE the slow hardener it's firmed up but still somewhat tacky something like 12-16 hours in 50-60 degree-ish temperatures.

    Hugh, most of the wires come out easily the ones that don't I do nip off close,

    I need to figure out the level line forward and aft, I'm guessing it would be the center thwart forward and aft for the level? (Don't want puddles on the seating.)
    Last edited by DeniseO30; 04-17-2019 at 10:45 AM.
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

  15. #50
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    level line I'm talking about
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

  16. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anders Bjorklund View Post
    An accurate way to level the hull fore 'n aft is to pick off the heights from the drawings for reference points on the bow and stern. Soon after leveling the hull I like to permanently mount one or two of those tiny bubble levels in the boat where I can see them to adjust the correct trim while sailing. They're handy for releveling the hull during construction too. Especially to accurately establish the rake of the mast.
    I'm still waiting on the drawings
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

  17. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anders Bjorklund View Post
    Sense that I'm getting is you don't want to wait. Mast rake is the only really crucial thing affected, and you can delay setting that until the drawings are in hand. Making good progress Denise.
    It's only been a few days I should have to plans by the end of this week, all that aside, I'm really not in a rush it just looks like I am, the way the bulkheads go in pretty much locks them at the angles designed in. But, there is a real potential for water to puddle in the corners if it's not right. Here again, it's probably something few people would even think about.

    I have an adjustable mast step idea in mind but I don't think it's necessary on this little boat.
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

  18. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anders Bjorklund View Post
    IMHO, strategically placed limber holes in frames and drain holes in thwarts are a better solution to puddles because they're still effective when the boat isn't stored in a precisely level position.
    Anders if you look at the picture of this boat you see all that's been taken in consideration by design. Any and all water will gather around the center bulkhead and daggerboard trunk.

    I just epoxy coated some of the panels my hands hurt from taking out the wire ties, so I'll give them a rest.
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

  19. #54
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    Default Re: CLC eastport pram

    West System slow hardener says 60F minimum temp for glues and work pieces; their fast hardener says 40F minimum. I only use fast hardener in the winter; otherwise I prefer slow hardener because it always takes me twice as long as I expect to finish a glue-up...
    Nice looking little pram!
    pvg

  20. #55
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    We, now just me, never used slow mix. Been using West systems forever, but MAS came with this build I just need to get used to "waiting".

    When I start working on the Ducker that's in my backyard, slow mix will probably better because it's going to be a lot warmer when I start working on it unless I wait until fall again 🤣 although I only need it for scarf joints and some spline repairs to the planks
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

  21. #56
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    Default Re: CLC eastport pram

    Quote Originally Posted by DeniseO30 View Post
    It's only been a few days I should have to plans by the end of this week, all that aside, I'm really not in a rush it just looks like I am, the way the bulkheads go in pretty much locks them at the angles designed in. But, there is a real potential for water to puddle in the corners if it's not right. Here again, it's probably something few people would even think about.

    I have an adjustable mast step idea in mind but I don't think it's necessary on this little boat.
    CLC plans should provide the exact fore and aft elevations of the bulkhead, seats and thwart. My plans did. This should eliminate any puddling.

    Quote Originally Posted by pvg View Post
    West System slow hardener says 60F minimum temp for glues and work pieces; their fast hardener says 40F minimum. I only use fast hardener in the winter; otherwise I prefer slow hardener because it always takes me twice as long as I expect to finish a glue-up...
    Nice looking little pram!
    pvg
    CLC typically ships slow hardener with their kits because the alleged non-blushing characteristics soothes the qualms of nervous first time builders.

  22. #57
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    Terry Otis from CLC answered my question. where I put the level is the same as putting the level on the center thwart/seat. So experience in building proved correct!
    Last edited by DeniseO30; 04-19-2019 at 11:00 AM.
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

  23. #58
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    Getting some masking tape down in anticipation of doing the fillets. Looks like the bottom first one, is going to have to be wider because it's almost flat where is the others have more of a vee l to them.
    All the wire ties are out! And it didn't fall apart!

    Last edited by DeniseO30; 04-23-2019 at 11:18 AM.
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

  24. #59
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    Tape on tape off...
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

  25. #60
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    Default Re: CLC eastport pram

    Looking good Denise. Are you confident you filled ALL the spaces and voids in the seams? If not you can flip the boat and drizzle neat epoxy along the laps, watching for penetration. Water ingress in voids next to the end-grain of okuome ply might lead to rot fairly quickly.

  26. #61
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    The joints of the planking have already been glued by the PO. No problem on my part, I work the filler in two directions and press it down into the joints and then I take my curved edge spatula ( 1.5" plastic putty knife) and scrape it off, it's like doing drywall compound, but stickier!

    When I do the outside I was already planning on it drizzling resin into the joints if they are open.

    Oh yes! this plywood definitely rots quickly, my covered CLC kayak deck had soft spots in it from being stored outdoors even though it was kept dry, the condensation, I guess inside the watertight compartments caused it to get soft, it took a few years like everything else we built or I built, they didn't get used enough.

    2nd thin coated all the bulkheads and seats. Guess I'm ready to start " assembly!

    Glad I didn't have to do this
    https://youtu.be/WjeptaI2T8E
    Last edited by DeniseO30; 04-23-2019 at 01:21 PM.
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

  27. #62
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    Line er up!

    Last edited by DeniseO30; 04-23-2019 at 08:56 PM.
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

  28. #63
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    Default Re: CLC eastport pram

    WOW! What a difference between now and what you brought home. Good on ya!

  29. #64
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    Thank you!

    "Can I cook? or can't I?"
    https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Genesis_cave


    Guess I actually do know What I'm doing and have been for over 25 -35 years

    *throws a brick at Dusty*

    BTW Epoxy stains on the field of the plywood? A red devil type pull scraper with a burr pulled diagonally across the plywood will usually remove most if not all of the epoxy stains.
    Last edited by DeniseO30; 04-23-2019 at 08:57 PM.
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

  30. #65
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    Default Re: CLC eastport pram

    Sorry if I come across as condescending or patronizing. It's just that LapStitch is an uncommon and ungainly construction method and I thought I'd share some of my experience with the pitfalls. If it weren't for the fact that I think John Harris has drawn some stunning designs utilizing it I would never build a boat that way. Now about that brick....

  31. #66
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    Very aware of the lapstrake vs lapstitch disscussions. And this boat, some of the lap stitch joints are just a little bit farther apart than I'd like them, but that just means the void gets filled with epoxy. The fillet joints are incredibly strong, way stronger than material in almost every case, lapstrake shiplap lapstitch, should owe homage to epoxy.
    *Rolls a pebble over to Dusty" 😇
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

  32. #67
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    Just thought I'd mention the epoxy is now working like it should because the basement temperatures have come up to the 60 70 degree range. It's still too slow for my way of doing things but that's okay things can just wait until the next day.

    Question this morning as finish my breakfast, do I want to put the glass down or not on the inside? we'll see how the day goes...
    Last edited by DeniseO30; 04-24-2019 at 09:33 AM.
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

  33. #68
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    Default Re: CLC eastport pram

    I think the inside glass is kinds dependent on how you're going to use it. I look at it as abrasion resistance when I climb in with sand/gravel/mud on feet. A decently tough paint will probably do the same thing with a lot less weight.

  34. #69
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    Too late Hugh!
    This is why I went into traditional building methods over 20yrs ago. It's also bringing back memories of how good my son was at this 😰😵😕

    It is spec'd. on the bottom in and out and everything is here.
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

  35. #70
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    Definitely faster than building a strip canoe! but this boat was partially built so I'm ahead of the game,
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

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