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Thread: I want one!

  1. #36
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    Default Re: I want one!

    Quote Originally Posted by Norman Bernstein View Post
    I'm glad you never had a serious accident (well, I'm presuming you haven't).

    However, I'll stand by the essence of my comment; all other things being equal, smaller wheels versus pothole are going to be more hazardous than larger wheels. Furthermore, any pothole you find in central California is likely to be a minor blemish, compared to what we get in New England every winter. Back when I owned an MGB, I hit a pothole on an entrance ramp to the highway that actually bent a stamped steel wheel... fortunately, the road was being repaired by the State, and they paid the insurance claim.

    New England is NOT like California... road conditions can be VERY bad, here.
    I've had several serious accidents. I paid my way by riding bikes. I am certainly in the top 10% of bike handlers on the planet, gas burning or push powered. I have millions of miles on all wheel types and sizes, and I promise you wheel size ain't the be all end all.

    But, I don't have any snazzy links or whatall, and I'm just an uneducated bum, so who even cares, anyway? Actually, I can't believe you guys get so worked up when an idiot like me runs off at the mouth.

    I had my scooter at 62mph yesterday, in fact, and I hit a large pothole. A square edged chunk of missing asphalt. Probably not like the real potholes where it snows. Oh, wait. It snows here, too... You guys get those great heaving chunks of asphalt scraped away by plows, too?

    Anyway, your statement that small wheeled scooters should not be going that fast remains wrong and ignorant.

    Peace,
    Robert

  2. #37
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    Default Re: I want one!

    Also, a car hitting a pothole is NOT a bike hitting a pothole.

    And, everyone who is convinced large wheels are always better, and always roll through holes and over bumps better, should ride a 29er. Hahahaha. Marketing hype!

    Peace,
    Robert

  3. #38
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    Default Re: I want one!

    Ride what you want Rob. Run what you brung. It's not important enough to argue about. The important thing is to keep riding. I'm on an SV650s myself

  4. #39
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    Default Re: I want one!

    Quote Originally Posted by Decourcy View Post
    Ride what you want Rob. Run what you brung. It's not important enough to argue about. The important thing is to keep riding. I'm on an SV650s myself
    I have a few motorbikes to ride, including a sportster, which I never choose.

    I also have, jeez, 15(?) push bikes at my disposal. Including a big, bad, full blown downhill bike my little buddy owns. I recently watched a guy who looks just like me make a run on a secret trail around here. What? I'm trying to get it all in before I crack.

    I do ride. Often. And all type of bikes.

    That was the point. Of course, it's only personal experience.

    Peace,
    Robert

  5. #40
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    Default Re: I want one!

    Quote Originally Posted by amish rob View Post
    Anyway, your statement that small wheeled scooters should not be going that fast remains wrong and ignorant.
    You are entitled to your opinion.... but so am I, and my opinion doesn't make me 'ignorant'.
    "Reason and facts are sacrificed to opinion and myth. Demonstrable falsehoods are circulated and recycled as fact. Narrow minded opinion refuses to be subjected to thought and analysis. Too many now subject events to a prefabricated set of interpretations, usually provided by a biased media source. The myth is more comfortable than the often difficult search for truth."







  6. #41
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    Default Re: I want one!

    Quote Originally Posted by amish rob View Post
    I have a few motorbikes to ride, including a sportster, which I never choose.

    I also have, jeez, 15(?) push bikes at my disposal. Including a big, bad, full blown downhill bike my little buddy owns. I recently watched a guy who looks just like me make a run on a secret trail around here. What? I'm trying to get it all in before I crack.

    I do ride. Often. And all type of bikes.

    That was the point. Of course, it's only personal experience.

    Peace,
    Robert
    Personal experience tells you what you enjoy riding, and that's all that really counts. Btw, the SV is my present ride. My first bike was a Honda 50 when I was 12. I'm not unfamiliar with 2 wheels, although I've always preferred burning dinosaur juice for power.

  7. #42
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    Default Re: I want one!

    Quote Originally Posted by Norman Bernstein View Post
    You are entitled to your opinion.... but so am I, and my opinion doesn't make me 'ignorant'.
    Lack of knowledge and experience does.

    My opinion is that of a professional. Is yours?

    Were I a lawyer, for example, would my legal opinion be so questioned?

    Straight up: I've forgotten more about two wheeled vehicles than you ever learned. I paid my way through college twice racing and riding bikes.

    I will ride a big wheeled or small wheeled bike in circles around you any day, any place.

    Peace,
    Robert

  8. #43
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    Default Re: I want one!

    Dial it back Rob.

  9. #44
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    Default Re: I want one!

    Quote Originally Posted by Decourcy View Post
    Personal experience tells you what you enjoy riding, and that's all that really counts. Btw, the SV is my present ride. My first bike was a Honda 50 when I was 12. I'm not unfamiliar with 2 wheels, although I've always preferred burning dinosaur juice for power.
    Great.

    My experience involves much more than riding for giggles.

    Peace,
    Robert

  10. #45
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    Default Re: I want one!

    Quote Originally Posted by amish rob View Post
    Lack of knowledge and experience does.

    My opinion is that of a professional. Is yours?

    Were I a lawyer, for example, would my legal opinion be so questioned?

    Straight up: I've forgotten more about two wheeled vehicles than you ever learned. I paid my way through college twice racing and riding bikes.

    I will ride a big wheeled or small wheeled bike in circles around you any day, any place.

    Peace,
    Robert
    Wow.
    "Reason and facts are sacrificed to opinion and myth. Demonstrable falsehoods are circulated and recycled as fact. Narrow minded opinion refuses to be subjected to thought and analysis. Too many now subject events to a prefabricated set of interpretations, usually provided by a biased media source. The myth is more comfortable than the often difficult search for truth."







  11. #46
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    Default Re: I want one!

    15 mph is a good speed to see the world, 35 mph a good max speed for getting around.

  12. #47
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    Default Re: I want one!

    Rob, Step away from the forum and have a snickers, bro

    This post is temporary and my disappear at the discretion of the managment

  13. #48
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    Default Re: I want one!

    Bye Rob. You've become a jerk. And as you yourself said, who has time for jerks. Onto ignore.

  14. #49
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    Default Re: I want one!

    I re-read the thread, as I'm VERY careful about my words these days. I even had another person read them.

    I have read horrible insults on this forum when arguments happened. Horrible. The worst I said was ignorant, which means lack of knowledge. No insult to be ignorant of something.

    Somehow, in the course of defending my opinion, and explaining it, I became a jerk.

    I've said before many times, I don't understand people, and I'm crazy. I think you're right, and it's best I go.

    Apologies for ruining your party.

    Peace,
    Robert

  15. #50
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    Default Re: I want one!

    This thread sure went to hell.

  16. #51
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    Default Re: I want one!

    Geez Louise, settle down.

    First up, that thing is a nightmare. I own a 30 bike hire fleet and have another 10 or so bikes and scooters. I wouldn't touch those things with a barge pole.
    "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome and charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" Mark Twain... so... Carpe the living sh!t out of the Diem

  17. #52
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    Default Re: I want one!

    Quote Originally Posted by The Bigfella View Post
    Geez Louise, settle down.

    First up, that thing is a nightmare. I own a 30 bike hire fleet and have another 10 or so bikes and scooters. I wouldn't touch those things with a barge pole.
    No doubt they would be much more expensive than gas and not usefulfor your application. How is the air in Chiang Mai?

  18. #53
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    Default Re: I want one!

    Quote Originally Posted by Decourcy View Post
    You are, of course, correct. We had similar difficulties in my neck of the woods when the original Austin Minis became popular. 6-8" deep vertical sided holes don't react well with 10" wheels. My first gen Honda Civic with the 12" wheels suffered as well.
    As I've said, all other factors being equal, smaller wheels fare more poorly on potholes. However, this can be greatly mitigated with suspension design by using a trailing arm suspension with a good inclination to the roadarm (the wheel center much lower than the roadarm pivot point); Then, when the wheel drops down into a pothole and impacts the front face, or hits a bump in the road, as the wheel rises, it also moves aft, greatly reducing the dynamic shock forces. Angled trailing arms are very good for off-road; early dune buggies and baja racers used VW Beetle suspensions with trailing arms, and when jacked up, provided the needed arm inclination. The drawbacks of trailing arms on the front of vehicles is that they have no anti-dive, in fact are "pro-dive", pulling the body front down under braking. And, they don't have the necessary camber change with vehicle roll to provide good handling. Most aircraft designed to land on dirt/semi-improved runways use a trailing arm suspension. Modern tanks use trailing arms supporting the tracks.
    When you can take the pebble from my hand, it will be time for you to leave.

  19. #54
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    Default Re: I want one!

    Really guys? This was supposed to be a fun thread.
    Pet photography, the degree you get when you fail aromatherapy - Duck D.

  20. #55
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    Default Re: I want one!

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob (oh, THAT Bob) View Post
    As I've said, all other factors being equal, smaller wheels fare more poorly on potholes. However, this can be greatly mitigated with suspension design by using a trailing arm suspension with a good inclination to the roadarm (the wheel center much lower than the roadarm pivot point); Then, when the wheel drops down into a pothole and impacts the front face, or hits a bump in the road, as the wheel rises, it also moves aft, greatly reducing the dynamic shock forces. Angled trailing arms are very good for off-road; early dune buggies and baja racers used VW Beetle suspensions with trailing arms, and when jacked up, provided the needed arm inclination. The drawbacks of trailing arms on the front of vehicles is that they have no anti-dive, in fact are "pro-dive", pulling the body front down under braking. And, they don't have the necessary camber change with vehicle roll to provide good handling. Most aircraft designed to land on dirt/semi-improved runways use a trailing arm suspension. Modern tanks use trailing arms supporting the tracks.
    What you say is undoubtedly true... but I don't think even advanced suspension geometries can totally mitigate the effect of a small wheel hitting a big pothole. Others might want to do 60+ mph on a small-wheeled vehicle... but I'll pass, thank you.
    "Reason and facts are sacrificed to opinion and myth. Demonstrable falsehoods are circulated and recycled as fact. Narrow minded opinion refuses to be subjected to thought and analysis. Too many now subject events to a prefabricated set of interpretations, usually provided by a biased media source. The myth is more comfortable than the often difficult search for truth."







  21. #56
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    Default Re: I want one!

    Quote Originally Posted by LeeG View Post
    No doubt they would be much more expensive than gas and not usefulfor your application. How is the air in Chiang Mai?
    The air in Chiang Mai is pretty crappy this month, thanks for asking. That's mostly due to the farmers who produce corn that is converted to ethanol for green fuels. They burn the stubble from their last crop. They also burn in the national parks, just because. I suspect they think they might be allowed to sneak a corn crop in there.

    Cost didn't come into my comment about not touching them. They aren't a good design. I've looked at some e-bikes with a view to adding some to the fleet.... but they aren't "there" yet. We will keep burning corn, with some dinosaur blood mixed in, for a while yet.
    "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome and charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" Mark Twain... so... Carpe the living sh!t out of the Diem

  22. #57
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    Default Re: I want one!

    Quote Originally Posted by Norman Bernstein View Post
    What you say is undoubtedly true... but I don't think even advanced suspension geometries can totally mitigate the effect of a small wheel hitting a big pothole. Others might want to do 60+ mph on a small-wheeled vehicle... but I'll pass, thank you.
    I said mitigate, not eliminate. And trailing arms are not what I would call "advanced", it's one of the first, and most primitive, of independent suspension designs.

    What is also cool is remote sensing technologies to sense the pothole in advance, and then "skyhook" the suspension using dampers and roll and pitch couple, to not let the wheel drop into the pothole to begin with. That only requires "semi-active" dampers. To lift the wheel over a bump, requires full active suspension. I recall seeing a suspension system by Bose, IIRC, the vehicle driving over lateral spans of wood, the wheels moving, the body not.
    When you can take the pebble from my hand, it will be time for you to leave.

  23. #58
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    Default Re: I want one!

    We had the big wheel vs small wheel debate here the other night, with these guys and some others, around the table of tall tales and lies....



    The guy in the red tee is riding the Honda Grom... has 27,000 on it now and just arrived - Sweden to here via the usual - Iran, India, Myanmar, etc. The guy in the yellow tee came in at the same time, same basic route but from Spain. He's on a BMW Sertao 650 - basically the same as the old Funduro I used to ride (and the Dakar I have here). Niklas, on the Grom, is headed to Malaysia, then shipping the bike to Africa. A Belgian mate who lives here lived and rode in Africa for many years (he was based in Burundi, but rode the Congo, etc). His first comment was... "you won't make it through the ruts with those small wheels".
    "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome and charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" Mark Twain... so... Carpe the living sh!t out of the Diem

  24. #59
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    Default Re: I want one!

    Quote Originally Posted by Katherine View Post
    Really guys? This was supposed to be a fun thread.
    The usual suspects are avidly supporting my decision to put them on IGNORE.

    Anyhow, someone posted about an e-scooter called Gogoro, that looks good, except it requires a proprietary charging station. That would work for urban areas, but not where I live. Being able to charge from a home outlet is the first checkbox on my list. Second is highway speed. Third is range, at least 100 k or better.
    We're merely mammals. Let's misbehave! óCole Porter

  25. #60
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    Default Re: I want one!

    ^^ Huh, I thought the Grom was a scooter style. I've read great tales of low cost touring on Groms. Yes, those small wheels will be no match for deep ruts or very low traction conditions. But on pavement or hardpack, not only is a Grom good for newbies, but especially so for someone that chap's size, and myself.
    When you can take the pebble from my hand, it will be time for you to leave.

  26. #61
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    Default Re: I want one!

    “Grom” in SoCal Parlance = a young surfer AKA Gromit
    This post is temporary and my disappear at the discretion of the managment

  27. #62
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    Default Re: I want one!

    Quote Originally Posted by Katherine View Post
    Really guys? This was supposed to be a fun thread.
    You are holding yourself out as an arbiter of civility after a few days ago posting that another poster here is a feckless ****?
    Last edited by C.Collins; 04-14-2019 at 07:27 PM.

  28. #63
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    Default Re: I want one!

    Quote Originally Posted by C.Collins View Post
    You are holding yourself out as an arbiter of civility after a few days ago posting that another poster here is a feckless ****?
    nope, not an arbiter, Katherine has standards and some people are a sequence of asterixes.

  29. #64
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    Default Re: I want one!

    Quote Originally Posted by LeeG View Post
    nope, not an arbiter, Katherine has standards and some people are a sequence of asterixes.
    Her standard of civility seems, substandard.

  30. #65
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    Default Re: I want one!

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob (oh, THAT Bob) View Post
    ^^ Huh, I thought the Grom was a scooter style. I've read great tales of low cost touring on Groms. Yes, those small wheels will be no match for deep ruts or very low traction conditions. But on pavement or hardpack, not only is a Grom good for newbies, but especially so for someone that chap's size, and myself.
    Here's a better shot of the Grom, with Nicklas heading off to Pai yesterday. Interestingly, the bike encountered a bit of trouble - which he handled quite well - as he rode off the tiled area onto the footpath - over a very small rut. Small wheels. I've never seen a big-wheeled bike slide out the way his did there.

    "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome and charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" Mark Twain... so... Carpe the living sh!t out of the Diem

  31. #66
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    Default Re: I want one!

    Quote Originally Posted by The Bigfella View Post
    Here's a better shot of the Grom, with Nicklas heading off to Pai yesterday. Interestingly, the bike encountered a bit of trouble - which he handled quite well - as he rode off the tiled area onto the footpath - over a very small rut. Small wheels. I've never seen a big-wheeled bike slide out the way his did there.

    Your sign appears to be old school neon and I love them. Led signs? Meh
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  32. #67
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    Default Re: I want one!

    Quote Originally Posted by C.Collins View Post
    You are holding yourself out as an arbiter of civility after a few days ago posting that another poster here is a feckless ****?

    My, you joined the Bilge on a holier plane. It is all tsk, tsk.
    bccphalarope(dot)com

  33. #68
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    Default Re: I want one!

    Quote Originally Posted by twodot View Post
    My, you joined the Bilge on a holier plane. It is all tsk, tsk.
    I have no idea what you are talking about.

  34. #69
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    Default Re: I want one!

    Quote Originally Posted by C.Collins View Post
    Her standard of civility seems, substandard.
    It's kind of funny that you think you are in a position to judge that after being here for a few weeks and racking up a few dozen posts.

    Only kind of funny, though.

    What are you doing about it?




  35. #70
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    Default Re: I want one!

    Quote Originally Posted by C.Collins View Post
    I have no idea what you are talking about.
    Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

    What are you doing about it?




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