Results 1 to 15 of 15

Thread: Seeking some advice on a sailboat

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Location
    Adrift
    Posts
    2

    Default Seeking some advice on a sailboat

    Hi all, new member here seeking some advice on a sailboat.

    I live alongside a river that is roughly 15km upstream from the coast. About fifteen years ago I built an 11í alloy flat bottomed boat, powered by a 10hp Mercury outboard. This has been used for hunting, fishing & duck shooting trips, as well as salvaging firewood as storms dislodge trees further upstream. It has been a really useful utility craft, even though sheís no beauty!

    I also have a locally made 10í clinker built row boat, that I have used for shorter trips and lazing about on warm summer evenings.

    I have been thinking for a couple of years now about getting something bigger; something that will replace the alloy boat. I am thinking of something with a cabin suitable for extended overnight stays (or longer) and something that would cope beyond the river and handle runs along the coast. I have sailed as a boy with my father, but I was very young, so I am basically starting from scratch in that regard. He had a wee GRP dingy and a Westerly Jouster.

    I like the look of the ĎFolkboatsí, so I am thinking of something along those lines, with an alloy mast and an inboard diesel engine. I like the inboard arrangement as it is all contained as one unit, ready to go when needed and it doesnít detracted from the clean lines externally. I realise the inboard/outboard debate can be polarizing, but I have had enough of lugging an outboard around. I am looking for an existing boat; I am not looking to build one from scratch. Although getting something that needs some work doing on it would be okay.

    I am content to confine myself to the river (for a couple of years need be) while I get experience, however there are a couple of issues that will govern my options. Firstly road bridges, of which there are two downstream from me. The first is quite close from home and the second is just in from the river mouth.So I need a boat that I can easily lower the mast on and then raise it again single handed while on the water. Is this asking too much for a boat the size of aĎFolkboatí? Am I being unrealistic for a beginner? The second issue is, afterthe second bridge there is a bar at the mouth. There is ample calm water between the second bridge and the bar to hoist the mast and prepare, before motoring out over the bar though.

    There are lakes nearby also, but they are land locked. So I would have to have a trailer if I wanted to sail in them. Given a choice I would rather have a boat that was safer in coastal waters and not access the lakes. Rather than get something smaller, lighter that could be towed to the lakes, at a compromise to sea worthiness along the coast.

    Iíd appreciate some thoughts and advice if this sounds feasible for a beginner. Is the bridge issue a common problem for others too? Apologies if I donít respond for a few days, as I have to use town internet, when I can get there.

    Thanks!

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Location
    Toodyay, Western Australia
    Posts
    793

    Default Re: Seeking some advice on a sailboat

    Welcome to the forum FF afloat. You have a broad range of criteria for your boat. I owned a folkboat for a while and had to drop the mast every time I went to sea. Doable, but not a trivial job. Given a choice I would look at boats with a mast short enough to clear the bridges. What is the minimum clearance you're dealing with? Trailering any boat is possible, it really just depends on the trailer, tow vehicle, and a decent boat ramp. I wouldn't want to do it with a folkboat just because the trailer would end up costing as much as the boat and the tow vehicle would be big and heavy. But, if money isn't an issue it should be possible to work out a manageable set up.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    St. Helens, Oregon
    Posts
    1,603

    Default Re: Seeking some advice on a sailboat

    Welcome aboard, FF Afloat! A clue as to your home waters might help, too. You may find members nearby who have experience with exactly what you need to cope with There are river bars and there are river bars...some fairly easy to deal with, some....not so much.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    South Australia and Tasmania
    Posts
    17,278

    Default

    Oughtred Grey Seal

    Sent from my CPH1851 using Tapatalk

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    SF Bay Area- Richmond
    Posts
    15,864

    Default Re: Seeking some advice on a sailboat

    You've given us a lot of good information -- bravo! But I think we'll need more to give any accurate advice.

    1. Clearance height of bridges at high tide?

    2. Depth of river areas where you'll be sailing? Will you be sailing from dock to dock, or beaching it to land?

    3. Location of sailing areas? This matters due to tides, currents and wave forms, which vary widely in different parts of the world.

    Overall without knowing much, I'd say you'll want to look at the type of boats used in the Broads in the UK. They're shallow draft designs with an easily-operated counter-balanced tabernacle to get under the many low bridges.



    Selway Fisher has several shallow draft designs with tabernacles like Simplicity and Rona - http://www.selway-fisher.com/Yacht2024.htm
    Last edited by Thorne; 04-11-2019 at 11:31 AM.
    "The enemies of reason have a certain blind look."
    Doctor Jacquin to Lieutenant D'Hubert, in Ridley Scott's first major film _The Duellists_.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Port Townsend WA
    Posts
    12,378

    Default Re: Seeking some advice on a sailboat

    I understand your interest in having an inboard diesel engine in your boat. To my knowledge only a very few Folk Boats were fitted with inboards and I belive that was in a boat of modified design. What you are facing is having a hull large enough to accommodate and inboard so far as weight is concerned. This means that you are facing a boat that, ideally, would be between twenty five to twenty eight feet in length. Yanmar makes a ten HP. engine and Bukh makes a very reliable small engine as well. If an inboard is your forte then seek out the lightest and most reliable engine you can and then choose a design that will accomodate it.
    Wishing you good fortune with your dream boat!
    Jay

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    27

    Default Re: Seeking some advice on a sailboat

    I think a nice Cat Boat (wood or frozen snot) might be a good choice. They are shallow draft and you can lift the centerboard when you run aground. A modest inboard would be no problem.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Apr 1999
    Location
    Hyannis, MA, USA
    Posts
    46,798

    Default Re: Seeking some advice on a sailboat

    A catboat gives you the most accommodation for each linear foot. There are a variety of masts that are designed around some sort of tabernacle. One outfit is at https://www.com-pacyachts.com/mastendr-mastraising.html

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    8,387

    Default Re: Seeking some advice on a sailboat

    More info, please. Is this boat for solo use, or does it need to overnight two or more? Also, are there strong currents in the river? Budget constraints?
    -Dave

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    St. Helens, Oregon
    Posts
    1,603

    Default Re: Seeking some advice on a sailboat

    Here y;go...awesome offshore boat, not too deep draft, inboard capable and the mast could be mounted on a tabernacle. http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...or-sale-in-B-C

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    27

    Default Re: Seeking some advice on a sailboat

    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh MacD View Post
    Here y;go...awesome offshore boat, not too deep draft, inboard capable and the mast could be mounted on a tabernacle. http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...or-sale-in-B-C
    That's a tall order to have a shallow draft boat with a tabernacle that is also an awesome offshore boat. Usually a good offshore boat has a deep draft and a fully stepped mast. I'm not saying that it doesn't exist, but here may be a need to make a few compromises somewhere.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Location
    Adrift
    Posts
    2

    Default Re: Seeking some advice on a sailboat

    Hi, Thank you for all the useful responses and sorry for omitting some vital details in my first post. Iíll add some more info based on your questions.

    I have measured the clearance under the first bridge and it is very low at 10' and would definitely need to lower the mast to pass under it and I think the second bridge will be too low as well, although I have never paid too much attention to it, as I have never needed to before. I hope to get some time next week to get out and check the clearances with a weighted stringline to be exact. Iím feeling less daunted about the raising/lowering of the mast now I have done some research on gin poles/A-frames and also found this video which was helpful: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=li7SadZL8ek

    Whilst towing capacity and building a trailer isnít really an issue, I probably donít want to be mucking around with a big trailer, but I guess it depends on what I find for sale, so not ruled out at this stage.

    Location is New Zealand, I probably should have mentioned that sooner. I have no experience with bars, but know enough to be super cautious. I good friend, is out there every weekend and knows it well. But I wouldnít be attempting it until I had studied a few boats crossing it, talked to the local fishermen and crossed it with somebody else first so I know what to expect. I also need to find out some depths for high/low tide for it too. As I say, Iím happy to confine myself to the river until I have gained some experience.

    I have a small jetty outside my place and I can extend it if required, but I think it should be okay. I can also sink some deeper timber piles to tie up to if needed, by using the bucket of an excavator/digger to push them down into the bank. I doubt I would need to beach it to land anywhere, as the banks are pretty good and I can just tie up alongside. The river by me is still tidal and it can vary a lot. I took a measure at low tide and I have 6í of water about 3í off my jetty and about 12í of water in the centre of the channel. The rivers flow is not fast flowing under normal conditions and on the odd times it is really running, I donít go out anyway. I would normally pull my alloy boat out when it is really running, but with a larger boat, Iíd just have to put extra lines to it to ensure it doesnít break free.

    I know an inboard diesel obviously takes up valuable space, but I can accept that, knowing I can just turn a key when required without mucking around. All my vehicles are diesel, so I always have good stocks stored on site and it has a good Ďshelf lifeí compared to petrol, so adding another diesel to the fleet is an easy decision on a broader practicality front.

    ďFrozen SnotĒ Haa, I liked that!

    I checked out the Mastender link; I think Iíd feel more comfortable taking a few minutes longer to raise the mast, than add a hinge into the mast. Seems like itíd be something else for me to worry about.

    As for budget, money is always an issue, but we always seem to find a way! I just donít know enough yet to commit to a number. Something that floats would be an advantage, something that needs some tidying up is okay. Iím not building from scratch and Iím not buying new. I just need to look at sites like this and see whatís available locally to get a feel for things. The last few weeks have been pretty hectic, but I hope to be able to get out and visit some yards/marinas and see whatís around. Itís the start of a big learning curve and I know I donít know half of what Iím looking at yet.

    Finally, Iím going to be mainly doing this single handed with a hound, maybe overnight accommodation for two up at most. I can be a miserable bugger at times; I canít imagine many would want to be stuck in a small boat with me for long!



    Thanks!

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Location
    Toodyay, Western Australia
    Posts
    793

    Default Re: Seeking some advice on a sailboat

    Based on what you've said, there is plenty of water to float a folkboat (4' draft) and lowering the mast to get under low bridges can be done (but isn't trivial like on a small trailer sailer). I'm wondering about your planned use. If seaworthiness is important the folkboat is a good choice. If you plan to stay on the river or coastal waters where sheltered anchorages are readily accessible, a smaller boat may be a lot less work to go sailing. Really depends on what you want out of your boat.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    SF Bay Area- Richmond
    Posts
    15,864

    Default Re: Seeking some advice on a sailboat

    There is an active sailing community in NZ with some local designers, so you'll want to check local sources for suggestions and ideas. Here's one of many Facebook groups - https://www.facebook.com/groups/dinghycruisingNZ/

    Here's a long thread on this Forum of boaters from your neck of the woods - http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...ats-Connection

    I've never heard of anyone sailing folkboats anywhere in tidal rivers -- they all seem to be sailed in deeper waters like bays or lakes with docks / quays. As above the boats for river boating under low bridges are quite different from those used offshore, and I don't think there is a single design that can safely "do it all".
    "The enemies of reason have a certain blind look."
    Doctor Jacquin to Lieutenant D'Hubert, in Ridley Scott's first major film _The Duellists_.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Bainbridge Island WA
    Posts
    2,739

    Default Re: Seeking some advice on a sailboat

    Quote Originally Posted by FF Afloat View Post
    I’m feeling less daunted about the raising/lowering of the mast now I have done some research on gin poles/A-frames and also found this video which was helpful: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=li7SadZL8ek
    I raise the mast on my 20' boat in a similar fashion, no A-frame but with a tackle forward to the bowsprit. It's one thing on a trailer, another afloat with the boat rolling around.

    A gaff rig generally has a shorter mast than a marconi, nominally easier to get up and down. An unstayed balance or standing lug like on a Sooty Tern or Caledonia Yawl would make getting under those bridges very easy. Those are open boats but they have proven seaworthy and quite tentable.
    Steve

    Boats, like whiskey, are all good.
    R.D Culler

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •