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Thread: Warped, stuck centerboard on Haven 12 1/2

  1. #1
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    Default Warped, stuck centerboard on Haven 12 1/2

    The title is a pretty accurate summary of my problem. The centerboard on my Haven 12 1/2 won't drop without swimming under the boat to pull it all the way down. It only goes down a few inches before it gets hung up.

    Tonight, a neighbor helped me hoist it off the trailer with his car lift so we could see what was going on. We found that it rubs against the wood keel in a few spots where the opening is slightly narrower than opening in the lead keel. The board is 1" thick, presumably glued up from 2 pieces of 1/2" mahogany plywood as specified in the plans. The opening in the lead keel is 1.25".

    We dropped the centerboard out, and found that it is warped. It twists. When I lay it flat and hold the lower trailing edge down tight to the table, the opposite corner near the pivot pin is raised up about a quarter inch off the table. I imagine the twist would be greater if the board was vertical in the water. That should be enough to bind it.

    I see two, or possibly three courses of action:

    1) I could take a sawzall and try and hack away at the oak keel above the lead where it is rubbing against the centerboard.

    2) I could make a new centerboard.

    3) Maybe there's a way to straighten out the board. If there is, I don't know it!

    I'd love to hear folks thoughts on how they might approach this. I should be able to post some pictures tomorrow if that helps.

    Thanks,
    Jeff

    Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Warped, stuck centerboard on Haven 12 1/2

    Maybe number one, definitely number two.

    I had a similar problem a couple years ago with our Caledonia yawl. I built a new center board out of staves and glassed over it. Itíll never warp again.
    -Jim

    Sucker for a pretty face.
    1934 27' Blanchard Cuiser ~ Amazon, Ex. Emalu
    19'6" Caledonia Yawl ~ Sparrow

    Getting into trouble one board at a time.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Warped, stuck centerboard on Haven 12 1/2

    Definitely stay away from your boat with a saw. Replace the center board.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Warped, stuck centerboard on Haven 12 1/2

    I might take the board out , grind it to bare wood and dry it. Then run additional saw kerfs into the board and fill the kerfs with epoxy.For instance , if the board is made of six inch (by half inch) planks, turn them into two inch ( by half inch ) planks.
    In other words , strip plank it.
    If it had been strip planked from the git go, it would have been more stable and not warped.
    By all means, sure go ahead and open up the slot a bit, but the problem is the board , not the trunk.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Warped, stuck centerboard on Haven 12 1/2

    Thanks for your replies.

    Bruce, the CB is glued up from two pieces of 1/2" plywood, not solid wood, so I'm not really sure what you mean by strip plank it. I was really surprised that a laminated plywood board would twist so much.

    Here are a few photos:

    20190410_192034.jpg

    Looking up aft into the centerboard trunk. You can see the red lead where the oak keel opening is narrower than the opening in the lead. I see bottom paint rubbed off onto the oak from the board in a few places.
    20190410_200412.jpg

    2 foot straight edge shows it's not flat.
    20190410_194140.jpg

    Holding it down on the opposite corner raises it up about 1/4"
    20190410_210453.jpg

    That worn spot on the lower left is what catches initially. There are a few places where the paint is just gone on both sides.
    20190410_210742.jpg

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Warped, stuck centerboard on Haven 12 1/2

    There's also this little "love bite". Might make sense to put a bronze half oval strip on the leading edge?

    20190410_210808.jpg

    Also, any ideas what this bottom paint is? I'll be needing to add some.

    Thanks,
    Jeff

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Warped, stuck centerboard on Haven 12 1/2

    It looks like it's not glassed. Perhaps that allowed water to soak in and that caused it to warp.

    Can you remove the finish, dry it, make it foil shaped while removing more off of the high side and glass it thereby giving it clearance and sealing it better?

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Warped, stuck centerboard on Haven 12 1/2

    Strip plank a new board. Alternate the growth rings in adjacent strips; no two adjacent strips should have the growth rings oriented the same....
    Shape it, glass it and youll be good to go. Use whatever bottom paint you use on the boat.
    Trying to unwarp a ply board is like trying to push chain.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Warped, stuck centerboard on Haven 12 1/2

    No, it's not glassed. Water had a few ways in. Especially through the leading edge where I showed the damage.

    Willin, by "strip plank", do you mean to glue the rough board up from 1/2 x 1" strips that run its length? Like this?

    Centerboard_sketch.jpg

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Warped, stuck centerboard on Haven 12 1/2

    I'd go with a new board, two layers of plywood, epoxy sealed and glassed. To make two plys and glass fit, you might have to remove one whole layer from at least one piece.

    And since even a nice slot and fair board can jam if you get a stone in, put a fitting in the top of the case, aft a bit, that you can open up and insert a stick to pound on. Make a reinforced flat where the stick will hit the board.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Warped, stuck centerboard on Haven 12 1/2

    As Ian said however I suggest using 3/8" ply. The fiberglass sheathing will make up for any loss of stiffness and keeping the board thinner will prevent future jams. Build up the board area around the pivot with the epoxied glass if needed for a bearing surface underloading. The pivot hole should be over bored, filled with reinforced epoxy, then drilled for the center board pivot bolt. The board will probably require a weight to prevent it from floating. The lead from the old board will work for that purpose.
    Last edited by navydog; 04-11-2019 at 11:09 AM.

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Warped, stuck centerboard on Haven 12 1/2

    3/8 ply in two layers sounds more straight forward than the strip built method. I only have a 13" planer, so it would be challenging to get it dead flat that way.

    I will likely have some more questions in the coming days, as I've never worked with fiberglass before. I have been granted access to the garage with the lift for the next two weeks, so I need everything back together and painted by then.

    Think I'd have to melt and re-pour the lead, or just pop it out and transfer it?

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Warped, stuck centerboard on Haven 12 1/2

    Quote Originally Posted by guillemot View Post
    No, it's not glassed. Water had a few ways in. Especially through the leading edge where I showed the damage.

    Willin, by "strip plank", do you mean to glue the rough board up from 1/2 x 1" strips that run its length? Like

    Centerboard_sketch.jpg
    Nope. They are not so much strips as planks. Id go with 3" ◊ 1". The wide dimension on the face of the board.

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Warped, stuck centerboard on Haven 12 1/2

    It's not difficult to make a centerboard, so that's what I'd do. The cb for my Somes Sound is also two layers of 1/2" ply glued together. I applied a layer of fiberglass cloth bedded in epoxy to my board. It hasn't warped yet. While you're at it, you can shape the new CB into a nice foil.

    By the way... I built my CB trunk to have a removable top. This makes removal a relatively easy job and allows for repainting both the CB and inside the trunk from above. I've even removed the trunk lid while the boat was in the water in order to extract some sea gunk.

    Jeff

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    Default Re: Warped, stuck centerboard on Haven 12 1/2

    What Ian said, particularly about the hole in the top of the CB case to let you insert a rod or handle. On my dory skiff I made the hole large enough to take the wooden handle of my gaff, then plugged it with a large cork lid from the craft store.
    "The enemies of reason have a certain blind look."
    Doctor Jacquin to Lieutenant D'Hubert, in Ridley Scott's first major film _The Duellists_.

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Warped, stuck centerboard on Haven 12 1/2

    Oh I missed that it’s ply.
    Strip plank would make a superior board. Imo, but it is a lot more work than ply. Especially if you are not fooled up and do not just LOVE grinding like me.
    I recon two layers of GOOD 3/8 th ply with dynel would work well.
    By good ply , I mean aqua tek , not occume. Aqua tek is meranti, it is heavier and more rot resistant than occume, and less money.
    What color will the gaffspanshackle be?
    Dynel has better abrasion resistance than glass.
    Id rasp or grind the opening fair, get that red lead crap outta there .

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Warped, stuck centerboard on Haven 12 1/2

    I can get 9 mm Hydrotek meranti plywood locally. That's a bit under 3/8". Two layers of that would be 0.7" final thickness. 30% under the original centerboard dimension. What weight dynel cloth would fill it out to 1" final thickness?

    If I grind down the opening fair, should I re-prime it with red lead to seal it up?

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Warped, stuck centerboard on Haven 12 1/2

    If I grind down the opening fair, should I re-prime it with red lead to seal it up?[/QUOTE]

    Seal it with epoxy wet on wet 'till it won't soak up any more then protect the epoxy from UV with whatever paint you want.

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Warped, stuck centerboard on Haven 12 1/2

    I would agree that if you use ply of any thickness you need to glass sheathe the board.Improving the streamlining is another good idea and an access hatch to alow you to push rubbish out of the slot might be very useful.

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Warped, stuck centerboard on Haven 12 1/2

    Dynel only comes in one weight, far as I know. It sucks up a lotta resin , it’s “weight” is not comparable to fg.

  21. #21
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    Default Re: Warped, stuck centerboard on Haven 12 1/2

    Quote Originally Posted by navydog View Post
    Definitely stay away from your boat with a saw. Replace the center board.
    +1.

  22. #22
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    Default Re: Warped, stuck centerboard on Haven 12 1/2

    Red lead, while wonderfully traditional is also wonderfully toxic, and probably best avoided. Take great care when sanding or scraping it, and if possible put the removed material in a can for disposal at the hazardous waste center. Just ask at any marina about all the care they have to take when removing bottom paint -- it is crazy complicated and best if you don't add to the process. I used red lead on my dory skiff restoration but found it somewhat ineffective in eliminating rot, and a real hassle to deal with in all senses.
    "The enemies of reason have a certain blind look."
    Doctor Jacquin to Lieutenant D'Hubert, in Ridley Scott's first major film _The Duellists_.

  23. #23
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    Default Re: Warped, stuck centerboard on Haven 12 1/2

    Quote Originally Posted by jsjpd1 View Post
    Maybe number one, definitely number two.

    I had a similar problem a couple years ago with our Caledonia yawl. I built a new center board out of staves and glassed over it. It’ll never warp again.
    ^^^^
    David G
    Harbor Woodworks
    https://www.facebook.com/HarborWoodworks/

    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  24. #24
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    Default Re: Warped, stuck centerboard on Haven 12 1/2

    On the other hand a board could be made using aluminum plate and painted in epoxy. It will never warp, swell or crack.

  25. #25
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    Default Re: Warped, stuck centerboard on Haven 12 1/2

    My little pint of red lead paint will probably remain a paperweight on my desk until the end of time. It really is nasty stuff. I am trying to figure out how I'm going to prep the bottom for paint without poisoning myself in the process. Ablative antifouling over red lead. Ugh!

    OK, I woke up thinking I'd try expanding the opening a bit first and see if that helps enough to get me out on the water with the current board. If that fails, then make a new board.

    Regarding expansion of the opening, the sawzall was the first tool that occurred to me because (1) it can reach past the ballast keel if I put a 10" blade on it, and (2) I own one. My neighbor has a grinder I can borrow though, so maybe I could attack it with that instead. Better? I've never used a grinder, so I don't know how hard they are to control in this kind of situation. I wouldn't want to cut the lead keel or accidentally damage the CB trunk.

    If building a new board: For the stave-built new board proposal, I have a few pieces of quartersawn white oak kicking around that I had been saving for the centerboard and rudder of my dory project. Could use those, I guess.

    I lean toward the glassed plywood approach, though an aluminum board is something I hadn't thought of. Would 3/8" be thick enough? Maybe I should price that out.

  26. #26
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    Default Re: Warped, stuck centerboard on Haven 12 1/2

    Youre thinking too hard. Dont start chopping away at the boat or the case. Your board binds because its warped. Build a new board, the oak will ultimately give you problems with epoxy so use something else. Use the existing ballast; -it will only take a weekend, then go sailing.

    Leave the read lead alone. Use any good bottom paint, whatever they have on the shelf. Petit, Interlux, they all work.

  27. #27
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    Default Re: Warped, stuck centerboard on Haven 12 1/2

    “Grinder “ can mean a few different things .
    Boatbuilders tend to idea “polisher”, it looks like a grinder but turns much slower and some can be run super slow.
    So, be careful you do not jam up a high speed tool up in there .
    I noodled my leg for a tiny fraction of a second this past winter and got a nasty reminder to be careful.
    Can you maybe just work it with a new rasp and a pair of leather gloves?
    Lead tools almost like wood, except different.
    bruce

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    Default Re: Warped, stuck centerboard on Haven 12 1/2

    I have no doubt 3/8" plate would work. If you manage to bend that, you are probably crashing your boat in the surf on rocks.

  29. #29
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    Default Re: Warped, stuck centerboard on Haven 12 1/2

    Reminding you of my post #7, scrape it clean, dry it, reshape it to be flat and foil shaped and glass it. For me anyway that would be the least work and most effective approach. You would need to take off 1/4" anyway to reshape it. Piece o' cake, and no need to mess with the slot or trunk.
    Last edited by Gib Etheridge; 04-12-2019 at 12:56 PM.

  30. #30
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    Default Re: Warped, stuck centerboard on Haven 12 1/2

    Then make the top of the trunk removable and you won't need your friend's help next time, indeed, you can get it out of there immediately.

  31. #31
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    Default Re: Warped, stuck centerboard on Haven 12 1/2

    I've got this (heavy) galvanized 3/16" steel centerboard lying around, free for the taking in Boothbay Harbor, Maine. 39" from the pin to the aft edge. If anyone wants it, PM me with your email address and we can discuss.
    DSCN5140.jpg

  32. #32
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    Default Re: Warped, stuck centerboard on Haven 12 1/2

    Nice Garage!
    Building a good centerboards will make you happy, it will make the boat sail better too.
    https://www.epoxyworks.com/index.php...-centerboards/
    At the very least, put a parabolic leading edge on it ant chamfer the back 4" or so down to an 1/8" trailing edge.
    Making a really nice foil takes time, but is also a good boat building project, plenty of advice on the web about how to do it.
    It is nice to fit some wear strips either on the head of the board or in the trunk to prevent the parts from chewing into each other.It kind of looks like this has happened inside the trunk, so take the time to inspect, dry and re-coat as necessary. Rot in this area is unacceptab;le.
    SHC

  33. #33
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    Default Re: Warped, stuck centerboard on Haven 12 1/2

    It really is a nice garage. Glad the neighbor who owns it is nice too! He has a 700+ horsepower M-series BMW in the other bay that he races at Loudon Speedway here in New Hampshire. Said he's blown up three engines in it so far. Crazy, eh?

    Anyway, OK, I hear you all. No hacking away at the opening seems to be the most common suggestion with a few dissenters. I guess I will focus on the board itself. The suggestion to shave/plane it down to flat and glass it is intriguing. Would shaving down plywood across the layers compromise its strength? The fiberglass would probably make up for that.

    rgbarr - Thanks for the offer, but I think that cutting that steel board down to fit would be beyond what I can handle at this point.

    SHClark, making a board with a real NACA foil profile sounds like it could be fun. But this is going into a gaff rigged Haven 12 1/2. I wonder how significant the performance gain would be relative to the labor invested. This seems like it could be a time-consuming rabbit hole for a first attempt. I have limited access to the garage, so I need to be quick.

    I think I'm going to try my hand at a two-layer plywood board coated in dynel or glass. I will try to put a parabolic leading edge on it to the best of my ability, and I'll chamfer the trailing edge as suggested. Maybe I'll route out the leading edge and lay in some strips of glass tapes as suggested in the epoxyworks site SHC pointed me towards.

    I'll probably come back with some more questions or just updates. Thanks!

  34. #34
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    Default Re: Warped, stuck centerboard on Haven 12 1/2

    Planing the faces of the board to flat and then foil followed by glassing will be fine. The glass will absorb the bending strain better than the lost wood.

  35. #35
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    Default Re: Warped, stuck centerboard on Haven 12 1/2

    On this shape of board, be sure that you keep all the board that stays in the trunk rectangular in section. The foil should only be in the water free of the hull/keel.

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