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Thread: Skookum Maru

  1. #981
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    Default Re: Skookum Maru

    Quote Originally Posted by ron ll View Post
    Great to have you as a neighbor Chris. Unfortunately with Skookum Maru and Barnacle as neighbors, I’m going to have to up my game. Repainting the aft cap rails now, so many other eyesores. I told Rod and Mary, (your J42 neighbors) that a wooden boat was coming in. He said something about hoping it wasn’t a home-wired old firetrap. You should have seen his jaw drop when Skookum Maru came in. They are nice people, just not really familiar with the nicer side of wooden boats. Most of the folks in the neighborhood are very nice. Welcome.
    A yard/marina on Lake Champlain decided to stop allowing wood boats - but gave 2 season's warning. During those 2 years they had 1 boat catch on fire, 2 sink at their mooring, and one sink at the dock - damaging the docks as well as the boat. all were fiberglass & they rescinded the ban on wood boats.
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

  2. #982
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    Default Re: Skookum Maru

    Quote Originally Posted by Garret View Post
    A yard/marina on Lake Champlain decided to stop allowing wood boats - but gave 2 season's warning. During those 2 years they had 1 boat catch on fire, 2 sink at their mooring, and one sink at the dock - damaging the docks as well as the boat. all were fiberglass & they rescinded the ban on wood boats.
    Yeah, the move to ban wooden boats has always seemed absurdly reductive to me. Replace all the crappy wooden boats with crappy fiberglass boats and you will still have crappy boats that will sink and catch fire in the marina. Better to find another way to deal with the problem of crappy boats (and deadbeat owners) in general. Stimson, where we have Skookum Maru, is mostly wooden boats. On our dock I can think of maybe three or four fiberglass boats and the rest are wood. The next dock over from us, where the big boats live, has so many wooden classic yachts that warm varnish is the predominant scent on a summer day (not hyperbole). And the wooden boats there are better kept and used more than the fiberglass ones.

    On another topic, we may have found the solution to our tender dilemma...



    I'm planning to go look at this boat on Saturday. A 14' Whirlwind. The hull is hot molded, a technique I've admired since seeing a WB article on how Thistles were made, so it's a light boat for the size. Should be large enough to ferry the menagerie around in comfort but light enough to tow easily. We'll see.
    - Chris

    Life is short. Go boating now!

  3. #983
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    Default Re: Skookum Maru

    Sweet little boat! Nice trailer too - looks as though it's coil springs with shocks?

    Many Luders boats were hot molded - including the Luders 16:

    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

  4. #984
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    Default Re: Skookum Maru

    Nice trailer too - looks as though it's coil springs with shocks?
    Yes, I think so. My only concern with the trailer is that it appears to just have rollers supporting the aft end of the boat. Hopefully the boat is light enough that the rollers won't have deformed the hull but even so I would want to replace them with bunks. And for towing I would need to add a strong bow eye. But otherwise it seems about perfect.
    - Chris

    Life is short. Go boating now!

  5. #985
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    Default Re: Skookum Maru

    Drove the four hours down to Salem, OR to look at the Whirlwind today. In an unusual and pleasant change from normal practice it turned out to be rather nicer than I expected. It could use some refinishing and general care but overall it was very presentable.



    And it ran great in a brief sea trial.



    It's also rather more boat that I was imagining from the photos on craigslist. I was thinking it would be a small step up from our dinghy - something for short trips in sheltered harbors - but in fact it's a pukka little runabout with a 30 hp Evinrude Lark outboard and fully equipped to tow a water skier, should we be inclined to take up that sport. And, more plausibly, I think it would do well for island hopping too. So, anyway, I bought it and drove the four hours back with the bow bobbing happily in my rear view mirror.



    It's not perfect. There are a couple of minor mechanical issues to sort out, I want to convert it to use a fuel pump and ditch the pressure tank, and there is this...



    It's not actually soft there but that will need attending to at the soonest opportunity. That was the worst spot I could find on the boat though. And being hot molded there are far fewer fasteners seams to worry about than with the equivalent lapstrake boat.

    Next thing to figure out is a towing setup. I do not intend to trust the 70 year old bow eye for towing so I will have to install some sort of more robust attachment point. The question is whether to a) replace the existing bow eye with something stronger, b) add a second bow eye below the first (which would provide some redundancy) or put two d-rings on either side of the bow below the chocks and use a bridle.

    Thoughts or advice?
    - Chris

    Life is short. Go boating now!

  6. #986
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    Default Re: Skookum Maru

    Super cool runabout! That bow eye is going to be a bugger to replace, if it is backed well I’d be tempted to leave it alone.
    -Jim

    Sucker for a pretty face.
    1934 27' Blanchard Cuiser ~ Amazon, Ex. Emalu
    19'6" Caledonia Yawl ~ Sparrow

    Getting into trouble one board at a time.

  7. #987
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    Default Re: Skookum Maru

    Quote Originally Posted by jsjpd1 View Post
    Super cool runabout! That bow eye is going to be a bugger to replace, if it is backed well I’d be tempted to leave it alone.
    Good point! It’s backed by a big fender washer. Could be worse, could be better. But you’re right, it’s probably not coming out without a battle. I do want some redundancy though… Another eye lower down maybe.
    - Chris

    Life is short. Go boating now!

  8. #988
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    Default Re: Skookum Maru

    Cool! She moves right along. May I suggest getting some spares for the engine "in stock"? Lower unit seals, points, condenser, etc. If you have 'em you may not need 'em...

    I understand your concerns on the bow eye. How's access up under the bow? I bet it's designed for a 15 YO gymnast. An off-the-wall idea: at the top of the bottom paint area a couple of feet back (under the "O" of "OR"?) mount a block of wood big enough to hold a padeye or the like & put a much larger backing plate behind it (so, a 2"x3" outer piece & a 6"x12" inner or such). Through-bold the padeye & do this both sides & attach a bridle. Nestle the new block up against the splash strake & it won't be very noticeable.
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

  9. #989
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    Default Re: Skookum Maru

    Nice score, Chris! Looking forward to hearing of your adventures

  10. #990
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    Default Re: Skookum Maru

    Chris, if you trust the wood structure in the bow, then the existing bow eye simply needs removal, inspection, and replacement if deemed necessary. Personally, I would not trust that it is not compromised without seeing it. If this takes the aid of a small person to crawl in with a wrench, then so be it. Alternatively you could install a deck hatch on the foredeck. Not something you want to look at, I'm sure, but it will get you access and peace of mind. If the wood structure, the stem, is not up to the towing task, then you'll need to post post photos of the internals along with other pertinent details.

    Nice looking boat. Your son is probably over the moon!

    Jeff

  11. #991
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    Default Re: Skookum Maru

    Quote Originally Posted by Garret View Post
    Cool! She moves right along. May I suggest getting some spares for the engine "in stock"? Lower unit seals, points, condenser, etc. If you have 'em you may not need 'em...

    I understand your concerns on the bow eye. How's access up under the bow? I bet it's designed for a 15 YO gymnast. An off-the-wall idea: at the top of the bottom paint area a couple of feet back (under the "O" of "OR"?) mount a block of wood big enough to hold a padeye or the like & put a much larger backing plate behind it (so, a 2"x3" outer piece & a 6"x12" inner or such). Through-bold the padeye & do this both sides & attach a bridle. Nestle the new block up against the splash strake & it won't be very noticeable.
    Access is not too bad up there actually. But I agree that backing blocks and pad eyes below the spray rail is the right approach. We have a towing bridle that would work with that setup already. But I'm thinking maybe a bit farther back, below the bow chocks. That placement is still well out of the water and would be easier to reach from inside the boat. Can you think of any reason not to put them there?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh MacD View Post
    Nice score, Chris! Looking forward to hearing of your adventures
    Thanks Hugh. I hear you are going to be recovering from knee surgery? I wish you all the best with that and will try to give you some decent reading material!


    And finally, I found this video while searching for Whirlwind info. It's nearly identical to ours with, the big Evinrude, although it's a deluxe model with the double cockpit and aft controls. Looks like fun in a mid-century, damn-the-torpedoes, safety-is-for-wimps sort of way. I doubt we will be replicating that behavior here in the 21st century! Kind of a pity, that. But boating accidents were a thing back then too. Cf. On Golden Pond...

    - Chris

    Life is short. Go boating now!

  12. #992
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    Default Re: Skookum Maru

    Quote Originally Posted by jpatrick View Post
    Chris, if you trust the wood structure in the bow, then the existing bow eye simply needs removal, inspection, and replacement if deemed necessary. Personally, I would not trust that it is not compromised without seeing it. If this takes the aid of a small person to crawl in with a wrench, then so be it. Alternatively you could install a deck hatch on the foredeck. Not something you want to look at, I'm sure, but it will get you access and peace of mind. If the wood structure, the stem, is not up to the towing task, then you'll need to post post photos of the internals along with other pertinent details.

    Nice looking boat. Your son is probably over the moon!

    Jeff
    I'll send photos in a bit. There is a lot more room under the fore deck than you might think. I could get a wrench on the nut easily enough. The stem seems plenty strong but my main concern is the strength of that eye bolt. It's probably fine but it's not the thing I want to find out in the middle of some tide rip with the crockery crashing around our ears. I think Garret's suggestion of pad eyes either side will work, and then I can run a safety line to the bow eye as a backup.

    And yeah, Dash definitely approves!
    - Chris

    Life is short. Go boating now!

  13. #993
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    Default Re: Skookum Maru

    HI Chris - My reasoning (if my little brain is capable of such a thing) for the position was to avoid the bridle rubbing on the hull - which it would if too far back from the curve of the hull. Obviously you are in a better position than I to know how far back you can go. The other thing to think about is the towing position the boat will take when being pulled - as a mounting point that's too low will pick the bow up & drop the motor lower. On my dinghy, I take the motor off if towing any distance, but a 30HP motor is a bit heavier than my 2HP, so that's not an easy thing in your situation.

    Fun video! The smaller boat looks similar to yours. Many years ago I spent some time on Little Squam Lake (On Golden Pond was filmed on Big Squam) & the friends has a 12' aluminum boat with a 30HP outboard of early 60's vintage. It'd pull an adult skier - but it wasn't strong enough for a single ski start - had to start on 2 & drop one or do a dock start. However, I bet you boat would be great for pulling a tube.
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

  14. #994
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    Default Re: Skookum Maru

    Quote Originally Posted by Garret View Post
    HI Chris - My reasoning (if my little brain is capable of such a thing) for the position was to avoid the bridle rubbing on the hull - which it would if too far back from the curve of the hull. Obviously you are in a better position than I to know how far back you can go. The other thing to think about is the towing position the boat will take when being pulled - as a mounting point that's too low will pick the bow up & drop the motor lower. On my dinghy, I take the motor off if towing any distance, but a 30HP motor is a bit heavier than my 2HP, so that's not an easy thing in your situation.
    Hm. Good thought. I think it will be ok but I'll test the bridle we have with the various attachment points to be sure. And I was thinking that I did want to raise the bow a bit when towing, so lower would be better, but there could be too much of a good thing there. But with a long enough tow line the angle would be pretty flat so I don't think it will be a problem. With the more forward mounting point I think it would be difficult to reach the pad eyes to attach/detach the bridle. It would probably have to be done from a dock or swim step. Doable, but possibly a bit of a chore.

    Here's a closer look at the existing bow eye:



    And here's what it looks like under the deck.



    Plenty of room for whatever needs doing For the block and backing pad I'm thinking 6mm plywood. Yes? No? The goal is to spread the load over a wide area so I expect that the thickness matters less than the area?
    - Chris

    Life is short. Go boating now!

  15. #995
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    Default Re: Skookum Maru

    Quote Originally Posted by cstevens View Post
    Hm. Good thought. I think it will be ok but I'll test the bridle we have with the various attachment points to be sure. And I was thinking that I did want to raise the bow a bit when towing, so lower would be better, but there could be too much of a good thing there. But with a long enough tow line the angle would be pretty flat so I don't think it will be a problem. With the more forward mounting point I think it would be difficult to reach the pad eyes to attach/detach the bridle. It would probably have to be done from a dock or swim step. Doable, but possibly a bit of a chore.

    Here's a closer look at the existing bow eye:



    And here's what it looks like under the deck.

    Plenty of room for whatever needs doing For the block and backing pad I'm thinking 6mm plywood. Yes? No? The goal is to spread the load over a wide area so I expect that the thickness matters less than the area?
    Nice classic eye!

    Others may be able to speak better to this than I, but I wonder if 6 is a bit thin on the inside - maybe go with 8mm?. Assuming the inner piece will be epoxied to the hull, it'll spread the load well, but the bolts through the padeye will probably be max 1/4" I'd guess. With 6mm, the pressure will be on a 1/4"x1/4" area for each bolt. Maybe drill say 3/4" holes in the ply, fill with epoxy & then drill the 1/4" holes through the epoxy? I'd then want large enough washers or metal backing plate to completely cover the 3/4" - so at least 1" diameter washers? Maybe 1/2" diameter epoxy would be enough.

    My concern is point loads on a thin plywood hull & backing plate - towing in rough water can do some slamming & banging.
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

  16. #996
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    Default Re: Skookum Maru

    Sweet looking tender Chris! Both my old Cartopper and now the tin skiff like to sit on the back of the 2nd stern wave, at a spot where the forefoot is just forward of the hump. I am towing from the breasthook over the stem in both cases. I do have the option of port or stbd stern cleats which is handy when tacking into a heavy swell.
    It’s good to see you aboard for an extended cruise, have a great summer! / Jim

  17. #997
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    Default Re: Skookum Maru

    Chris, sweet boat you got there ! I have 2 minor questions concerning the first photo in post # 994 - do I see a vertical crack in the bottom paint just aft of the stem on the port side (?) , and would it be necessary to replace that bow chock pad on that same side ? A really nice, and appropriate acquisition , in my opinion !!!

  18. #998
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    Default Re: Skookum Maru

    Quote Originally Posted by Garret View Post
    Nice classic eye!

    Others may be able to speak better to this than I, but I wonder if 6 is a bit thin on the inside - maybe go with 8mm?. Assuming the inner piece will be epoxied to the hull, it'll spread the load well, but the bolts through the padeye will probably be max 1/4" I'd guess. With 6mm, the pressure will be on a 1/4"x1/4" area for each bolt. Maybe drill say 3/4" holes in the ply, fill with epoxy & then drill the 1/4" holes through the epoxy? I'd then want large enough washers or metal backing plate to completely cover the 3/4" - so at least 1" diameter washers? Maybe 1/2" diameter epoxy would be enough.

    My concern is point loads on a thin plywood hull & backing plate - towing in rough water can do some slamming & banging.
    I was thinking 6mm so that it would conform to the curve of the hull but maybe the solution here is to laminate the backing pad from two layers of 4mm, which would both conform better and make a thicker pad. I think the outer plate likely doesn't need to be as thick as it's not doing any work other than spreading the fastener load a bit. All of the pulling force is going to be on the inside, yes? I'm thinking a stack of pad eye > 4mm mounting pad > hull > 8mm laminated backing pad > large washers (like 1-1/2") > securing nuts.

    Also after staring at it a bit more I think your idea of placing the eyes a bit farther forward is the right one. That makes access to them a bit harder but worst case we will just have to leave the bridle in place for general use.

    Quote Originally Posted by chas View Post
    Sweet looking tender Chris! Both my old Cartopper and now the tin skiff like to sit on the back of the 2nd stern wave, at a spot where the forefoot is just forward of the hump. I am towing from the breasthook over the stem in both cases. I do have the option of port or stbd stern cleats which is handy when tacking into a heavy swell.
    It’s good to see you aboard for an extended cruise, have a great summer! / Jim
    Thanks Jim. That's pretty much my thought on towing as well. We also have port and starboard stern cleats with hawse holes so we can tow from either side but I'm thinking we will have a bridle at that end of things as well and run it to both stern cleats. Stronger and less tendency to pull the boat to one side.

    Quote Originally Posted by hawkeye54 View Post
    Chris, sweet boat you got there ! I have 2 minor questions concerning the first photo in post # 994 - do I see a vertical crack in the bottom paint just aft of the stem on the port side (?) , and would it be necessary to replace that bow chock pad on that same side ? A really nice, and appropriate acquisition , in my opinion !!!
    Thanks Rick! And good eye on the cracks. Here's a closer look at that area, both sides:





    The bottom paint is cracking at the stem rabbet on both sides. I poked at it and I didn't find an obvious problems but it's definitely on my list of things to have a closer look at when I can get the paint off. All of the various joints on the boat have opened up a little from being stored dry and there are paint and varnish cracks in a number of places. At the moment I am not too concerned about anything but our plan is to use the boat for our upcoming cruise and then strip and refinish it this winter. I expect I'll find a few things to deal with when I get the paint off.

    As for the bow chock pad, yes I see that it's looking a little worse for wear. I haven't given all that much thought to the trailer as I see it mostly as a place to store the boat but I should take a closer look at it anyway. It's actually a pretty decent little trailer - a late 50s or early 60s-era Holsclaw with coil spring suspension and a tilting tongue. Worth putting some time into restoring it a bit.
    - Chris

    Life is short. Go boating now!

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    Default Re: Skookum Maru

    Really nice all around, Chris. I'd think some cracking between the hot molding and timber would be expected at this age, but now's the time to address it. I like your idea of two eyes, reachable from the cockpit, but I'd have to agree that 8mm might be the better choice doe to the torque loading they'll see. I'm thinking the longer surface will have less tendency to oval out under wear.

  20. #1000
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    Default Re: Skookum Maru

    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh MacD View Post
    Really nice all around, Chris. I'd think some cracking between the hot molding and timber would be expected at this age, but now's the time to address it. I like your idea of two eyes, reachable from the cockpit, but I'd have to agree that 8mm might be the better choice doe to the torque loading they'll see. I'm thinking the longer surface will have less tendency to oval out under wear.
    Ok, 8mm it is. I think I have some 4mm meranti plywood that will work to laminate up the pads. I'll have to hunt for it in the disaster that is our basement. Fingers crossed that I'm not imagining it. I'd love to not have to buy a whole sheet just for this project!
    - Chris

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    Default Re: Skookum Maru

    Quote Originally Posted by cstevens View Post
    Ok, 8mm it is. I think I have some 4mm meranti plywood that will work to laminate up the pads. I'll have to hunt for it in the disaster that is our basement. Fingers crossed that I'm not imagining it. I'd love to not have to buy a whole sheet just for this project!
    Sometimes you get lucky. I have to make a pad to go in siding for a heater install - has to be 5/4 and 6x6". In the scrap pile I found a piece 6 x 6 1/8". Score!
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

  22. #1002
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    Quote Originally Posted by cstevens View Post
    Ok, 8mm it is. I think I have some 4mm meranti plywood that will work to laminate up the pads. I'll have to hunt for it in the disaster that is our basement. Fingers crossed that I'm not imagining it. I'd love to not have to buy a whole sheet just for this project!
    Lemme know if you can't find it, Chris. I have some 6mm (I think) I can cut a couple of chunks of and send up. Making it half inch thick won't hurt anything. I may have some 8mm out there. too. I'll dig around.

  23. #1003
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    Default Re: Skookum Maru

    Quote Originally Posted by Garret View Post
    Sometimes you get lucky. I have to make a pad to go in siding for a heater install - has to be 5/4 and 6x6". In the scrap pile I found a piece 6 x 6 1/8". Score!
    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh MacD View Post
    Lemme know if you can't find it, Chris. I have some 6mm (I think) I can cut a couple of chunks of and send up. Making it half inch thick won't hurt anything. I may have some 8mm out there. too. I'll dig around.
    Thanks guys. I know I have a big piece of 12mm which might do depending on how much it has to bend. I'll dig around and see what I have and go from there.

    In the meantime, a gratuitous Skookum Maru photo since I'm working from the boat these days:



    Not a bad day at the office!
    - Chris

    Life is short. Go boating now!

  24. #1004
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    Default Re: Skookum Maru

    Sigh....
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

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    Default Re: Skookum Maru

    Tough life Chris. I'm in my office looking out at a parking lot and a dumpster right now, not thinking Christian thoughts....

    - Rick

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    Default Re: Skookum Maru

    Well, if I peer up at the shore I can just barely make out the parking lot and the dumpsters so there's that I guess. But no lie, this is pretty much my ideal life. If I have to work for a living this is the way to do it. It won't last of course. We will be back under the shed by September and into the gray, wet, Seattle winter soon after that. Gotta enjoy it while it lasts.
    - Chris

    Life is short. Go boating now!

  27. #1007
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    Default Re: Skookum Maru

    While I love your office/view, I really can't complain. I took this a couple of hours ago. It's the same view I have from my desk, just from outside the window.

    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

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    Default Re: Skookum Maru

    That’s beautiful Garret. All that green makes me exhausted just looking at it though. Basically the landscaping version of a varnished yacht!
    - Chris

    Life is short. Go boating now!

  29. #1009
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    Default Re: Skookum Maru

    Quote Originally Posted by cstevens View Post
    That’s beautiful Garret. All that green makes me exhausted just looking at it though. Basically the landscaping version of a varnished yacht!
    Ain't that an accurate description! Plus that's only part of it...
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

  30. #1010
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    Default Re: Skookum Maru

    Well I found the sheet of 12mm meranti but the 4mm existed only in my imagination. I’m tempted to use the 12mm because I have it but am concerned that it won’t conform easily to the inside of the hull and will create a hard spot. However there isn’t a ton of curve to the hull where it would go so maybe… I guess I’ll just need to cut a piece and see. Advice, suggestions and kibitzing welcome!
    - Chris

    Life is short. Go boating now!

  31. #1011
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    Default Re: Skookum Maru

    1/2" ply will bend some. Or, if you wanna get fancy, use some chalk to find low/high spots & shape it a bit.
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

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    Default Re: Skookum Maru

    Ok I’ll see how it fits up and then go from there. Next question. I’d like to use folding pad eyes like this one from Wilchard…



    but mounted so that the eye will hang down when not in use. But that will mean pulling in the “wrong” direction, in-line with the pin and putting torque on the pivot. It’s not as strong that way but does it matter? Breaking load is 11,000 lbs in the proper orientation. if I get even 20% of that load on the pad eye (which would be over two tons total force on the towing rig) I think something else is going to break first. The towing bridle is only rated for 3000 lbs. And we would likely be in conditions that would have us cutting the tow and running for shelter long before then. Ok? Bad idea? Anyone have a better option for a low profile towing eye?
    - Chris

    Life is short. Go boating now!

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    Hills of Vermont, USA
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    41,036

    Default Re: Skookum Maru

    OK. 'spose you get 2K force per side - 4K total. Way more than enough & I bet the bolts would break first - not to mention damage to the hull.

    Towing my 9' dinghy - even at 6 knots or so, I can pull the dinghy to the boat hand over hand. I ain't superman, so what's that - 200lbs or so? For sure heavy seas will bang it about harder & this boat is heavier, but I'd think you'll be fine.

    Love to hear from someone with more boat tech background than I though.
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

  34. #1014
    Join Date
    Apr 2000
    Location
    Barrie, Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    6,441

    Default Re: Skookum Maru

    Regarding the towing-eye backing-nut, you can replace it with a lifting-eye nut.

    lifting eye.jpg

    Then you can tie that to a couple of plates/bolts farther aft, under the deck, at the sheer, with cable and small turnbuckles.

    Dave

  35. #1015
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Hills of Vermont, USA
    Posts
    41,036

    Default Re: Skookum Maru

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Hadfield View Post
    Regarding the towing-eye backing-nut, you can replace it with a lifting-eye nut.

    Then you can tie that to a couple of plates/bolts farther aft, under the deck, at the sheer, with cable and small turnbuckles.

    Dave
    What a great idea!
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

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