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Thread: from a recreation standpoint

  1. #281
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    Default Re: from a recreation standpoint

    Quote Originally Posted by BrianY View Post
    Putting aside Paul's usual inanities for a moment. . .
    but only for a moment, right?

    I think we should have strict firearms licensing with the following provisions:
    • demonstration of a minimum level of mental and emotional competency via an exam by a medical professional, or perhaps a social worker, or other recognized and approved professional who may be determined to make such an authorization - similar in some ways to the 'medical' that pilots must obtain before licensing
    • complete and pass a firearms training and safety course proving knowledge and competency of safe firearms use, storage, and ownership; the course should include both classroom and practical content
    • there should be an initial waiting period from application to the endorsement of the permit, I think thirty days would be appropriate
    • firearms, when not in use, must be kept securely stored, in a 'rated' safe or vault, or equipped with a secure trigger lock or other firing mechanism prevention device which if removed illicitly would render the firearm useless
    • owners of firearms should be required to carry mandatory liability insurance
    • owners of firearms should be held strictly criminally and civilly liable for harm caused by their firearms through negligence or non compliance with safe firearms storage and handling requirements


    Fulfilling the above requirements would allow the owner to be licensed to buy a firearm for purposes of sporting, hunting, collecting, and self defense of the home or business. It would not allow for the concealed or open carry of a firearm in public for purposes of 'self defense'.

    Fulfilling the above requirement would allow the holder of such a license to own any long gun, of any action type, with the proviso that magazine capacity be limited to five rounds. Further they could own any handgun, of any action type, provided that magazine capacity be limited to ten rounds.

    Further, once licensed, the holder of such a license could purchase any of the above firearm types without restrictions or waiting period.

    All firearms must be registered, all firearms should undergo ballistic fingerprinting.

    The above license must be renewed every five years.

    There should be a formal process in place where law enforcement and medical professionals could ask the court to review an individual's license for suspension or revocation.

    Any weapon types not falling into the classification above should be added to the current 'class iii' type for licensing which are very strict.

    Concealed carry permits should be federal, should be heavily restricted, and there should be a demonstrable need for such a permit.

    Current owners of firearms should have a grace period to comply with the above. If they cannot comply or don't wish to comply they can sell their firearms to a Class III dealer, they could store their guns an approved facility or gun club, or they can turn their guns in to the feds for appropriate reimbursement.
    Last edited by Paul Pless; 03-24-2019 at 12:33 PM.
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

  2. #282
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    Default Re: from a recreation standpoint

    can i go back to being inane now?
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

  3. #283
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    Bradford, VT
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    7,127

    Default Re: from a recreation standpoint

    The link to eurekalert doesn't seem to get to AJM.
    A search of their issues back to Nov. 2018 doesn't turn up the article.
    Can you help?

  4. #284
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    Central Coast, Ca
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    Default Re: from a recreation standpoint

    Quote Originally Posted by David G View Post
    Second Parkland Shooting Survivor Apparently Dies By Suicide

    https://www.yahoo.com/huffpost/secon...152655999.html


  5. #285
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    MD
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    Default Re: from a recreation standpoint

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pless View Post
    but only for a moment, right?

    I think we should have strict firearms licensing with the following provisions:
    • demonstration of a minimum level of mental and emotional competency via an exam by a medical professional, or perhaps a social worker, or other recognized and approved professional who may be determined to make such an authorization - similar in some ways to the 'medical' that pilots must obtain before licensing
    • complete and pass a firearms training and safety course proving knowledge and competency of safe firearms use, storage, and ownership; the course should include both classroom and practical content
    • there should be an initial waiting period from application to the endorsement of the permit, I think thirty days would be appropriate
    • firearms, when not in use, must be kept securely stored, in a 'rated' safe or vault, or equipped with a secure trigger lock or other firing mechanism prevention device which if removed illicitly would render the firearm useless
    • owners of firearms should be required to carry mandatory liability insurance
    • owners of firearms should be held strictly criminally and civilly liable for harm caused by their firearms through negligence or non compliance with safe firearms storage and handling requirements


    Fulfilling the above requirements would allow the owner to be licensed to buy a firearm for purposes of sporting, hunting, collecting, and self defense of the home or business. It would not allow for the concealed or open carry of a firearm in public for purposes of 'self defense'.

    Fulfilling the above requirement would allow the holder of such a license to own any long gun, of any action type, with the proviso that magazine capacity be limited to five rounds. Further they could own any handgun, of any action type, provided that magazine capacity be limited to ten rounds.

    Further, once licensed, the holder of such a license could purchase any of the above firearm types without restrictions or waiting period.

    All firearms must be registered, all firearms should undergo ballistic fingerprinting.

    The above license must be renewed every five years.

    There should be a formal process in place where law enforcement and medical professionals could ask the court to review an individual's license for suspension or revocation.

    Any weapon types not falling into the classification above should be added to the current 'class iii' type for licensing which are very strict.

    Concealed carry permits should be federal, should be heavily restricted, and there should be a demonstrable need for such a permit.

    Current owners of firearms should have a grace period to comply with the above. If they cannot comply or don't wish to comply they can sell their firearms to a Class III dealer, they could store their guns an approved facility or gun club, or they can turn their guns in to the feds for appropriate reimbursement.
    Damn yr good when not inane!

  6. #286
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    Default Re: from a recreation standpoint

    Quote Originally Posted by oznabrag View Post
    I would add that there should be 'blanket' competency tests/evaluation. IOW, if you want to get a shotgun, you must demonstrate competency with ALL shotguns, and also lever, bolt, pump, falling-block and semi-auto rifles (I'm sure I missed one or two), and semi-auto pistols (what are there now, three basic varieties?), and revolvers both single and double action



    Clearly.


    I think you should be able to show that you can go out to the workshop and build one from a billet.

  7. #287
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    oklahoma
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    Default Re: from a recreation standpoint

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pless View Post
    but only for a moment, right?

    I think we should have strict firearms licensing with the following provisions:
    • demonstration of a minimum level of mental and emotional competency via an exam by a medical professional, or perhaps a social worker, or other recognized and approved professional who may be determined to make such an authorization - similar in some ways to the 'medical' that pilots must obtain before licensing
    • complete and pass a firearms training and safety course proving knowledge and competency of safe firearms use, storage, and ownership; the course should include both classroom and practical content
    • there should be an initial waiting period from application to the endorsement of the permit, I think thirty days would be appropriate
    • firearms, when not in use, must be kept securely stored, in a 'rated' safe or vault, or equipped with a secure trigger lock or other firing mechanism prevention device which if removed illicitly would render the firearm useless
    • owners of firearms should be required to carry mandatory liability insurance
    • owners of firearms should be held strictly criminally and civilly liable for harm caused by their firearms through negligence or non compliance with safe firearms storage and handling requirements


    Fulfilling the above requirements would allow the owner to be licensed to buy a firearm for purposes of sporting, hunting, collecting, and self defense of the home or business. It would not allow for the concealed or open carry of a firearm in public for purposes of 'self defense'.

    Fulfilling the above requirement would allow the holder of such a license to own any long gun, of any action type, with the proviso that magazine capacity be limited to five rounds. Further they could own any handgun, of any action type, provided that magazine capacity be limited to ten rounds.

    Further, once licensed, the holder of such a license could purchase any of the above firearm types without restrictions or waiting period.

    All firearms must be registered, all firearms should undergo ballistic fingerprinting.

    The above license must be renewed every five years.

    There should be a formal process in place where law enforcement and medical professionals could ask the court to review an individual's license for suspension or revocation.

    Any weapon types not falling into the classification above should be added to the current 'class iii' type for licensing which are very strict.

    Concealed carry permits should be federal, should be heavily restricted, and there should be a demonstrable need for such a permit.

    Current owners of firearms should have a grace period to comply with the above. If they cannot comply or don't wish to comply they can sell their firearms to a Class III dealer, they could store their guns an approved facility or gun club, or they can turn their guns in to the feds for appropriate reimbursement.
    Make it as difficult to get a license as a soccer scholarship to ACLU.
    Ask not what your country can do for you; ask what you can do for your country. John Fn Kennedy. (D)

  8. #288
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    May 2000
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    2,725

    Default Re: from a recreation standpoint

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pless View Post
    but only for a moment, right?

    I think we should have strict firearms licensing with the following provisions:
    • demonstration of a minimum level of mental and emotional competency via an exam by a medical professional, or perhaps a social worker, or other recognized and approved professional who may be determined to make such an authorization - similar in some ways to the 'medical' that pilots must obtain before licensing
    • complete and pass a firearms training and safety course proving knowledge and competency of safe firearms use, storage, and ownership; the course should include both classroom and practical content
    • there should be an initial waiting period from application to the endorsement of the permit, I think thirty days would be appropriate
    • firearms, when not in use, must be kept securely stored, in a 'rated' safe or vault, or equipped with a secure trigger lock or other firing mechanism prevention device which if removed illicitly would render the firearm useless
    • owners of firearms should be required to carry mandatory liability insurance
    • owners of firearms should be held strictly criminally and civilly liable for harm caused by their firearms through negligence or non compliance with safe firearms storage and handling requirements


    Fulfilling the above requirements would allow the owner to be licensed to buy a firearm for purposes of sporting, hunting, collecting, and self defense of the home or business. It would not allow for the concealed or open carry of a firearm in public for purposes of 'self defense'.

    Fulfilling the above requirement would allow the holder of such a license to own any long gun, of any action type, with the proviso that magazine capacity be limited to five rounds. Further they could own any handgun, of any action type, provided that magazine capacity be limited to ten rounds.

    Further, once licensed, the holder of such a license could purchase any of the above firearm types without restrictions or waiting period.

    All firearms must be registered, all firearms should undergo ballistic fingerprinting.

    The above license must be renewed every five years.

    There should be a formal process in place where law enforcement and medical professionals could ask the court to review an individual's license for suspension or revocation.

    Any weapon types not falling into the classification above should be added to the current 'class iii' type for licensing which are very strict.

    Concealed carry permits should be federal, should be heavily restricted, and there should be a demonstrable need for such a permit.

    Current owners of firearms should have a grace period to comply with the above. If they cannot comply or don't wish to comply they can sell their firearms to a Class III dealer, they could store their guns an approved facility or gun club, or they can turn their guns in to the feds for appropriate reimbursement.
    “Shall not be infringed, bitches!”
    \"A little too tall, coulda used a few pounds...\"

  9. #289
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
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    n.c. tn
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    6,899

    Default Re: from a recreation standpoint

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pless View Post
    but only for a moment, right?

    I think we should have strict firearms licensing with the following provisions:
    • demonstration of a minimum level of mental and emotional competency via an exam by a medical professional, or perhaps a social worker, or other recognized and approved professional who may be determined to make such an authorization - similar in some ways to the 'medical' that pilots must obtain before licensing
    • complete and pass a firearms training and safety course proving knowledge and competency of safe firearms use, storage, and ownership; the course should include both classroom and practical content
    • there should be an initial waiting period from application to the endorsement of the permit, I think thirty days would be appropriate
    • firearms, when not in use, must be kept securely stored, in a 'rated' safe or vault, or equipped with a secure trigger lock or other firing mechanism prevention device which if removed illicitly would render the firearm useless
    • owners of firearms should be required to carry mandatory liability insurance
    • owners of firearms should be held strictly criminally and civilly liable for harm caused by their firearms through negligence or non compliance with safe firearms storage and handling requirements


    Fulfilling the above requirements would allow the owner to be licensed to buy a firearm for purposes of sporting, hunting, collecting, and self defense of the home or business. It would not allow for the concealed or open carry of a firearm in public for purposes of 'self defense'.

    Fulfilling the above requirement would allow the holder of such a license to own any long gun, of any action type, with the proviso that magazine capacity be limited to five rounds. Further they could own any handgun, of any action type, provided that magazine capacity be limited to ten rounds.

    Further, once licensed, the holder of such a license could purchase any of the above firearm types without restrictions or waiting period.

    All firearms must be registered, all firearms should undergo ballistic fingerprinting.

    The above license must be renewed every five years.

    There should be a formal process in place where law enforcement and medical professionals could ask the court to review an individual's license for suspension or revocation.

    Any weapon types not falling into the classification above should be added to the current 'class iii' type for licensing which are very strict.

    Concealed carry permits should be federal, should be heavily restricted, and there should be a demonstrable need for such a permit.

    Current owners of firearms should have a grace period to comply with the above. If they cannot comply or don't wish to comply they can sell their firearms to a Class III dealer, they could store their guns an approved facility or gun club, or they can turn their guns in to the feds for appropriate reimbursement.
    Specific licenses for specific models.. How many times have I seen someone turn a pistol sideways to see what configuration it used. I liked the training which required blindfolded dis/re- assembly. Tolerating unfamiliarity w/ a tool specifically designed to kill is beyond irrational. Of course, so is allowing the tool to be loose in the general public..

    and nix the insurance requirement. It's nothing but a way to prevent poor people from accessing.

  10. #290
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    Default Re: from a recreation standpoint

    Quote Originally Posted by Beowolf View Post
    “Shall not be infringed, bitches!”
    join a militia and put on britches!

  11. #291
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    Default Re: from a recreation standpoint

    Quote Originally Posted by Durnik View Post
    Specific licenses for specific models.. How many times have I seen someone turn a pistol sideways to see what configuration it used. I liked the training which required blindfolded dis/re- assembly. Tolerating unfamiliarity w/ a tool specifically designed to kill is beyond irrational. Of course, so is allowing the tool to be loose in the general public..

    and nix the insurance requirement. It's nothing but a way to prevent poor people from accessing.
    poor people have to have auto insurance.

  12. #292
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    May 2000
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    2,725

    Default Re: from a recreation standpoint

    Quote Originally Posted by LeeG View Post
    join a militia and put on britches!
    Dude... Just repeating an oft read quote on this forum.
    \"A little too tall, coulda used a few pounds...\"

  13. #293
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
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    n.c. tn
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    Default Re: from a recreation standpoint

    "poor people have to have auto insurance. "

    and that's another problem. research who insurance benefits and get back to me.

  14. #294
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    495

    Default Re: from a recreation standpoint

    The American goverment has already gone seriously astray from what once intended to be democracy.
    To my knowledge the amount of automatic and semi-automatic weapons in the hands of American commoners didn't prewent this from happening did it.

    I rekon that gun control is a very good thing as long as it doesn't go overboard. As with many other things it is easy to become a fanatic on either edge but that really doesn't improve anything.

    To me a sensibe level of gun control could for instace include something like this:
    -A mandatory gun licence if you want to have a gun.
    -A background check. If you have a record of violent criminality or serious mental problems or drug abuse no gun licence for you.
    -A waiting time let's say 60 days from when you apply for gun license until you can buy the gun.
    -A total ban on automatic guns in the hands of civilians except for active members of the Home Guard if there is anything such in the country. With restrictions on who can join and how to maintain membership. The Home Guard keep their automatic guns in a special strongroom at the nearest police station when they are off duty.
    -A ban on semi automatic guns with more than 6 rounds between reloadings.
    -A ban on repeters with more than 12 rounds between reloadings.
    -A fine for gun owners whose gun storage is unsafe. One gun is allowed to be kept hidden unloaded at home but if you have more guns the rest must be kept locked in a certified gun safe with munitions and all.
    -When transporting a gun in a car or carrying it in public it must be kept in a sheath unloaded except when you use it.
    -Concealed gun carrying and carrying loaded guns in public is totally banned except for police and military personel on duty and certain persons who under threat who can be issued a special carrying licence by court after a very thorough background check.
    -Formerly illegal guns of types that can be owned legally can be legalized by the police and a gun license issued on the same grounds as a license for a new gun.
    -Illegal guns can be handed in anonymously for destruction at any time.

    A little bit more relaxed than Finland and a lot stricter than USA. To me that would seem like a reasonable compromize. I tried to keep the best parts of what we have and change the not so good parts and the parts that don't fit your society.

    And if......if.... the government runs amuck the best precaution of all will be a conscription based army where the soldiers certainly will desert en masse...... and what is left of government controlled armed forces after that can be defeated with repeter riffles.
    Here in Finland we know that you can successfully fight heavy tanks using pulpwood logs and crowbars and Molotoff cocktails and first world war surplus riffles and civilian dynamite.
    Amateur living on the western coast of Finland

  15. #295
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    Default Re: from a recreation standpoint

    And you sweep your forests!

  16. #296
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    Central MA
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    Default Re: from a recreation standpoint

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pless View Post
    but only for a moment, right?

    I think we should have strict firearms licensing with the following provisions:
    • demonstration of a minimum level of mental and emotional competency via an exam by a medical professional, or perhaps a social worker, or other recognized and approved professional who may be determined to make such an authorization - similar in some ways to the 'medical' that pilots must obtain before licensing
    • complete and pass a firearms training and safety course proving knowledge and competency of safe firearms use, storage, and ownership; the course should include both classroom and practical content
    • there should be an initial waiting period from application to the endorsement of the permit, I think thirty days would be appropriate
    • firearms, when not in use, must be kept securely stored, in a 'rated' safe or vault, or equipped with a secure trigger lock or other firing mechanism prevention device which if removed illicitly would render the firearm useless
    • owners of firearms should be required to carry mandatory liability insurance
    • owners of firearms should be held strictly criminally and civilly liable for harm caused by their firearms through negligence or non compliance with safe firearms storage and handling requirements


    Fulfilling the above requirements would allow the owner to be licensed to buy a firearm for purposes of sporting, hunting, collecting, and self defense of the home or business. It would not allow for the concealed or open carry of a firearm in public for purposes of 'self defense'.

    Fulfilling the above requirement would allow the holder of such a license to own any long gun, of any action type, with the proviso that magazine capacity be limited to five rounds. Further they could own any handgun, of any action type, provided that magazine capacity be limited to ten rounds.

    Further, once licensed, the holder of such a license could purchase any of the above firearm types without restrictions or waiting period.

    All firearms must be registered, all firearms should undergo ballistic fingerprinting.

    The above license must be renewed every five years.

    There should be a formal process in place where law enforcement and medical professionals could ask the court to review an individual's license for suspension or revocation.

    Any weapon types not falling into the classification above should be added to the current 'class iii' type for licensing which are very strict.

    Concealed carry permits should be federal, should be heavily restricted, and there should be a demonstrable need for such a permit.

    Current owners of firearms should have a grace period to comply with the above. If they cannot comply or don't wish to comply they can sell their firearms to a Class III dealer, they could store their guns an approved facility or gun club, or they can turn their guns in to the feds for appropriate reimbursement.
    i can go along with this. It's not everything I think is needed (I don't like the "any long gun of any action type" bit because I think there are certain types of guns that should not be available to the general public), but it would be a major improvement on the current situation. I would add that registrations should track the weapon from manufacture through all sales or other transactions right up until the disposal/destruction of the weapon. And registrations should be federal, not state.
    I rather be an American than a Republican.

  17. #297
    Join Date
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    Default Re: from a recreation standpoint

    Quote Originally Posted by heimlaga View Post
    The American goverment has already gone seriously astray from what once intended to be democracy.
    To my knowledge the amount of automatic and semi-automatic weapons in the hands of American commoners didn't prewent this from happening did it.

    I rekon that gun control is a very good thing as long as it doesn't go overboard. As with many other things it is easy to become a fanatic on either edge but that really doesn't improve anything.

    To me a sensibe level of gun control could for instace include something like this:
    -A mandatory gun licence if you want to have a gun.
    -A background check. If you have a record of violent criminality or serious mental problems or drug abuse no gun licence for you.
    -A waiting time let's say 60 days from when you apply for gun license until you can buy the gun.
    -A total ban on automatic guns in the hands of civilians except for active members of the Home Guard if there is anything such in the country. With restrictions on who can join and how to maintain membership. The Home Guard keep their automatic guns in a special strongroom at the nearest police station when they are off duty.
    -A ban on semi automatic guns with more than 6 rounds between reloadings.
    -A ban on repeters with more than 12 rounds between reloadings.
    -A fine for gun owners whose gun storage is unsafe. One gun is allowed to be kept hidden unloaded at home but if you have more guns the rest must be kept locked in a certified gun safe with munitions and all.
    -When transporting a gun in a car or carrying it in public it must be kept in a sheath unloaded except when you use it.
    -Concealed gun carrying and carrying loaded guns in public is totally banned except for police and military personel on duty and certain persons who under threat who can be issued a special carrying licence by court after a very thorough background check.
    -Formerly illegal guns of types that can be owned legally can be legalized by the police and a gun license issued on the same grounds as a license for a new gun.
    -Illegal guns can be handed in anonymously for destruction at any time.

    A little bit more relaxed than Finland and a lot stricter than USA. To me that would seem like a reasonable compromize. I tried to keep the best parts of what we have and change the not so good parts and the parts that don't fit your society.

    And if......if.... the government runs amuck the best precaution of all will be a conscription based army where the soldiers certainly will desert en masse...... and what is left of government controlled armed forces after that can be defeated with repeter riffles.
    Here in Finland we know that you can successfully fight heavy tanks using pulpwood logs and crowbars and Molotoff cocktails and first world war surplus riffles and civilian dynamite.

    I like your plan. I'd agree to it right now!

    Washington state has enacted some enhanced gun laws recently. I expect the movement to continue here, and in other states, but slowly. I wouldn't risk another 4 years of Trump and sacrifice of some decent social programs by pushing the gun issue too vehemently though.

  18. #298
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    Default Re: from a recreation standpoint

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pless View Post
    but only for a moment, right?

    I think we should have strict firearms licensing with the following provisions:
    • demonstration of a minimum level of mental and emotional competency via an exam by a medical professional, or perhaps a social worker, or other recognized and approved professional who may be determined to make such an authorization - similar in some ways to the 'medical' that pilots must obtain before licensing
    • complete and pass a firearms training and safety course proving knowledge and competency of safe firearms use, storage, and ownership; the course should include both classroom and practical content
    • there should be an initial waiting period from application to the endorsement of the permit, I think thirty days would be appropriate
    • firearms, when not in use, must be kept securely stored, in a 'rated' safe or vault, or equipped with a secure trigger lock or other firing mechanism prevention device which if removed illicitly would render the firearm useless
    • owners of firearms should be required to carry mandatory liability insurance
    • owners of firearms should be held strictly criminally and civilly liable for harm caused by their firearms through negligence or non compliance with safe firearms storage and handling requirements


    Fulfilling the above requirements would allow the owner to be licensed to buy a firearm for purposes of sporting, hunting, collecting, and self defense of the home or business. It would not allow for the concealed or open carry of a firearm in public for purposes of 'self defense'.

    Fulfilling the above requirement would allow the holder of such a license to own any long gun, of any action type, with the proviso that magazine capacity be limited to five rounds. Further they could own any handgun, of any action type, provided that magazine capacity be limited to ten rounds.

    Further, once licensed, the holder of such a license could purchase any of the above firearm types without restrictions or waiting period.

    All firearms must be registered, all firearms should undergo ballistic fingerprinting.

    The above license must be renewed every five years.

    There should be a formal process in place where law enforcement and medical professionals could ask the court to review an individual's license for suspension or revocation.

    Any weapon types not falling into the classification above should be added to the current 'class iii' type for licensing which are very strict.

    Concealed carry permits should be federal, should be heavily restricted, and there should be a demonstrable need for such a permit.

    Current owners of firearms should have a grace period to comply with the above. If they cannot comply or don't wish to comply they can sell their firearms to a Class III dealer, they could store their guns an approved facility or gun club, or they can turn their guns in to the feds for appropriate reimbursement.
    I'm not trying to argue for arguing sake. But, one of my super-powers was Failure Mode and Effect Analysis, i.e., predicting how something fails and the results.

    Emotional competency: A difficult and inexact science. Used to be, folks who were not threats to society but simply outside the norm were locked up in "mental institutions" for decades. Now (and for some time, several decades), the pendulum has swung in the opposite direction to fundamental human rights. You can't lock up someone unless they are a PROVEN threat to society, meaning they do something threatening. I believe in consistency, no hypocrisy, so I believe the same standard should apply.

    Training: Agree, it helps everything. Less accidents, hopefully understanding the consequences of firearm use, and being more effective with the firearm if needed. BUT, training should be universal, meaning anyone carrying a firearm must undergo the same training.

    Waiting period: Why? Emotional outburst? I think a week is an order of magnitude longer than any emotional outburst I have seen. How about a waiting period no longer than the duration of background check. Why? Because if I am traveling though another state and happen upon a rare buy, I want to be able to grab it and not pay another $200 for shipping and transfer to my local FFL. Or even within state. I was in a remote part of my home state decades back, stopped into a gun shop I saw, they had a relatively rare target rifle I had always wanted, I bought it on the spot and took it home.

    Storage: I would like every house and apartment to be equipped with a heavy safe at construction, so when you move, you just leave it in place and use the one at your new residence. Would also protect other valuables. Won't stop a professional thief, but that is rare for common firearms. Safe technology is cheap. During the great recession (and the recession before), I advocated the government tooling up car makers and the like to produce a standard design safe and sell it to consumers at cost. Regarding individual gun locks, its extremely hard to make one that will disable the gun if opened illicitly, most just involve drilling the lock or cutting the cable, and we are a nation of cheap tools including $5 drills and grinders. There's just no way around that. They are intended as child safety measures, no more. Even locks integral to the gun are made to be accessible for service if they malfunction.

    Liability insurance: Won't make a difference in deaths, but if you want to further enrich the USA insurance industry, go ahead. But note, that will act as a barrier only to the poor, just like insurance redlining kept minorities from owning homes and cars decades ago.

    Criminal and civil liability: For careless storage, yes. If a thief steals a gun equipped with a gun lock and grinds it off, or torches or plasma cuts the door off your gun safe, no. Average people only have so much ability to prevent theft. But everyone should do what can be done at low cost. Locks and safes.

    EDIT: Ballistic fingerprinting: Doesn't work. After fingerprinting, scrub the bold face and rifling with something abrasive, lapping compound, and the machining marks change. Further, two or more guns from the same manufacturing lot, with the exact same tooling that machines the bolt face and barrel rifling, and it may be impossible to tell them apart in terms of the bullets and cases exiting each. Further, "patched" bullets don't receive those marks from the barrels. (Patching bullets, surrounding them with a cloth patch, either with muzzle-loaders or cartridge bullets, was to prevent soft lead (not jacketed with copper) bullets from leaving lead fouling (deposits) in the gun barrel.
    Last edited by Bob (oh, THAT Bob); 03-25-2019 at 01:04 AM.
    When you can take the pebble from my hand, it will be time for you to leave.

  19. #299
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    Do you have a warrant?
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    Default Re: from a recreation standpoint

    Quote Originally Posted by oznabrag View Post
    The answer there is mandatory reporting of stolen guns.
    The problem there is gun owner's fear of gun registration as an easy list governments can use for confiscation. (And face it, it is.) That is why they have fought long gun registration. Currently, there should be no legal issues from reporting those guns if they are stolen. But a handgun inherited through the family and not registered? They're not going to incriminate themselves, on the small chance of the thief being caught, and even if so, the police making an effort to return the gun to its right full owner. Police usually do one of the following: Melt it down. Sell it for proceeds. Use it as a throwaway to place in the hands of the unarmed person the cop just shot. The gun enters the private collection of a police officer (there was a case here locally of that being discovered of a local cop, had a huge collection). And by the way, any police officer that breaks firearms laws should not just be dismissed, but vigorously prosecuted. That almost never happens:

    https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle...ficers-locker/
    http://time.com/5542424/new-york-pol...guns-arrested/

    By the way, muzzle loading pistols and rifles are not considered "firearms" under US law. So that antique .32 muzzle-loading pistol in the first Death Wish movie did not, and does not, need to be registered. With a second cylinder to reload as shown in the movie Pale Rider, not much different from a magazine change on a modern pistol. I'll be happy to use one if the police and military are limited to the same.
    When you can take the pebble from my hand, it will be time for you to leave.

  20. #300
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    Default Re: from a recreation standpoint

    Quote Originally Posted by BrianY View Post
    i can go along with this. It's not everything I think is needed (I don't like the "any long gun of any action type" bit because I think there are certain types of guns that should not be available to the general public), but it would be a major improvement on the current situation. I would add that registrations should track the weapon from manufacture through all sales or other transactions right up until the disposal/destruction of the weapon. And registrations should be federal, not state.
    While I agree with most of what you've got to say there, the last part, IIRC, would be prohibited under current law - and I'm not sure it is a good idea.
    "The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails."
    -William A. Ward



  21. #301
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    Sep 2007
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    Northeast
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    16,086

    Default Re: from a recreation standpoint

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob (oh, THAT Bob) View Post
    The problem there is gun owner's fear of gun registration as an easy list governments can use for confiscation. (And face it, it is.) That is why they have fought long gun registration. Currently, there should be no legal issues from reporting those guns if they are stolen. But a handgun inherited through the family and not registered? They're not going to incriminate themselves, on the small chance of the thief being caught, and even if so, the police making an effort to return the gun to its right full owner. Police usually do one of the following: Melt it down. Sell it for proceeds. Use it as a throwaway to place in the hands of the unarmed person the cop just shot. The gun enters the private collection of a police officer (there was a case here locally of that being discovered of a local cop, had a huge collection). And by the way, any police officer that breaks firearms laws should not just be dismissed, but vigorously prosecuted. That almost never happens:

    https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle...ficers-locker/
    http://time.com/5542424/new-york-pol...guns-arrested/

    By the way, muzzle loading pistols and rifles are not considered "firearms" under US law. So that antique .32 muzzle-loading pistol in the first Death Wish movie did not, and does not, need to be registered. With a second cylinder to reload as shown in the movie Pale Rider, not much different from a magazine change on a modern pistol. I'll be happy to use one if the police and military are limited to the same.
    And it should be used for that. The owner becomes a felon, mentally ill, a domestic abuser, you don't want to remove the firearms from that situation? Foolish. At that point you are putting the questionable rights of the individual before the rights of the rest of the community.
    "The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails."
    -William A. Ward



  22. #302
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    Sep 2007
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    16,086

    Default Re: from a recreation standpoint

    Quote Originally Posted by oznabrag View Post
    They already incriminated themselves when they failed to register the transfer of ownership.
    Without a background check.
    "The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails."
    -William A. Ward



  23. #303
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    central cal
    Posts
    18,125

    Default Re: from a recreation standpoint

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob (oh, THAT Bob) View Post
    The problem there is gun owner's fear of gun registration as an easy list governments can use for confiscation. (And face it, it is.) That is why they have fought long gun registration. Currently, there should be no legal issues from reporting those guns if they are stolen. But a handgun inherited through the family and not registered? They're not going to incriminate themselves, on the small chance of the thief being caught, and even if so, the police making an effort to return the gun to its right full owner. Police usually do one of the following: Melt it down. Sell it for proceeds. Use it as a throwaway to place in the hands of the unarmed person the cop just shot. The gun enters the private collection of a police officer (there was a case here locally of that being discovered of a local cop, had a huge collection). And by the way, any police officer that breaks firearms laws should not just be dismissed, but vigorously prosecuted. That almost never happens:

    https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle...ficers-locker/
    http://time.com/5542424/new-york-pol...guns-arrested/

    By the way, muzzle loading pistols and rifles are not considered "firearms" under US law. So that antique .32 muzzle-loading pistol in the first Death Wish movie did not, and does not, need to be registered. With a second cylinder to reload as shown in the movie Pale Rider, not much different from a magazine change on a modern pistol. I'll be happy to use one if the police and military are limited to the same.
    Well, you'd need to cap your spare cylinder, first, unless you're dumb enough to walk around with a capped and loaded cylinder. Chain fire, much? Also, that .32 is cool for a couple hundred yards, then falls out the sky. For example, our Nick would not have died if shot with a BP .32. Wouldn't have reached as far with the ballistic energy to explode his head.

    As for the first pile? I don't want to get in trouble or lose my gun, so I won't report it stolen? THAT is the gun that DID kill Nick. Some jackoff needed to have a big, powerful handgun, got it stolen, and kept quiet about it. Who's rights were violated?

    Also, they're gonna take our guns! Yeah, they might. And, when they do decide to, not anything anyone can do to stop it. Hole up in your compound with your desert eagle, go ahead. They got tanks and planes and bombs.

    Preppers and gubbmint takeover folks amuse me. And, I have an infallible solution to the problem that always stymies them. Weapons? Do what all insurgents do. Take the weapons from the invaders. Duh.

    Peace,
    Robert

  24. #304
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    May 2010
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    Victoria BC
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    11,004

    Default Re: from a recreation standpoint

    What other 1st World nations allow for the open or concealed carry of sidearms by the general population?
    Nosce te ipsum

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