Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 35 of 57

Thread: California halts executions (all of them!)

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    26,342

    Default California halts executions (all of them!)

    Newsom's the man!!!

    California announces moratorium on death penalty, halting more than 700 executions

    California Gov. Gavin Newsom announced a moratorium on the death penalty Wednesday, halting more than 700 executions in the state.

    The executive order grants a reprieve to 737 inmates on the country's largest death row and halts the use of the death penalty in the state, according to the governor's office.

    "I do not believe that a civilized society can claim to be a leader in the world as long as its government continues to sanction the premeditated and discriminatory execution of its people," Newsom said in prepared remarks on Wednesday. "In short, the death penalty is inconsistent with our bedrock values and strikes at the very heart of what it means to be a Californian."
    You can read the rest!

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/natio...cid=spartandhp

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Portland, Oregon
    Posts
    53,522

    Default Re: California halts executions (all of them!)

    I am not totally opposed to the death penalty. I have met evil, and am only too happy to eradicate it.

    The problem comes in that the existing 'justice' system has morphed into such a pizz-poor mechanism for even fairly ascertaining guilt at all. Let alone for accurately identifying those who are best eliminated. While we might be able to identify the irredeemable, we don't seem to be set up well to accurately categorize, identify, nor prune them.

    Now throw in the glaring, egregious amounts of racism seemingly baked into the system... and also needing reform... and I support his move.
    Last edited by David G; 03-13-2019 at 09:53 AM.
    David G
    Harbor Woodworks
    https://www.facebook.com/HarborWoodworks/

    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Alameda, CA
    Posts
    12,895

    Default Re: California halts executions (all of them!)

    As someone who has recently visited death row in San Quentin and interviewed a most dangerous killer and saw plenty others - I have mixed feelings on the this. Be afraid of monsters and kind to men that can redeemed.
    many who get death are going to take more life if given a chance.

    the chill in my bones still lingers from my visit there.
    Last edited by Ted Hoppe; 03-13-2019 at 09:54 AM.
    A large nose is the mark of a witty, courteous, affable, generous and liberal man. My feature suggests an excellent side kick of good index.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Too far inland.
    Posts
    9,449

    Default Re: California halts executions (all of them!)

    Cali has 700 on death row??!!!
    No adversary is worse than bad advice.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Hell
    Posts
    93,224

    Default Re: California halts executions (all of them!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Figment View Post
    Cali has 700 on death row??!!!
    unlike texas, alabama, florida, et al. . . they build an inventory out there in california

    sign me, so happy to be living in the first english speaking territory in the world to outlaw capital punishment, michigan in 1847
    that's some pretty darn good virtue signalling, no?
    Last edited by Paul Pless; 03-13-2019 at 12:13 PM.
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Northwest Oregon coast
    Posts
    27,158

    Default Re: California halts executions (all of them!)

    Quote Originally Posted by CWSmith View Post
    Newsom's the man!!!



    You can read the rest!

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/natio...cid=spartandhp
    737? ..
    Is this another airplane thread?

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Alameda, CA
    Posts
    12,895

    Default Re: California halts executions (all of them!)

    Many on death row in California also committed the crime of aggressive driving.
    A large nose is the mark of a witty, courteous, affable, generous and liberal man. My feature suggests an excellent side kick of good index.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 1999
    Location
    St. Paul, MN, USA
    Posts
    51,658

    Default Re: California halts executions (all of them!)

    I have no real moral objection to the death penalty. Some folks very much deserve it, and its great virtue is that it prevents the person from doing any more harm. The problem is that the system by which we figure out who to execute is just not reliable enough to justify killing someone. Too many screwups, biases and just randomness.
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

    Richard Feynman

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    maine
    Posts
    153

    Default Re: California halts executions (all of them!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Hoppe View Post
    As someone who has recently visited death row in San Quentin and interviewed a most dangerous killer and saw plenty others - I have mixed feelings on the this. Be afraid of monsters and kind to men that can redeemed.
    many who get death are going to take more life if given a chance.

    the chill in my bones still lingers from my visit there.
    Ted,
    You can't drop something like this and walk away. Many of us have curious minds. If you aren't bound by some sort of privacy issue, more details, please. Why were you there? What did you see? What was it like?

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Alameda, CA
    Posts
    12,895

    Default Re: California halts executions (all of them!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Wilson View Post
    I have no real moral objection to the death penalty. Some folks very much deserve it, and its great virtue is that it prevents the person from doing any more harm. The problem is that the system by which we figure out who to execute is just not reliable enough to justify killing someone. Too many screwups, biases and just randomness.
    True. Then again there are some seriously bad seeds who bring mayhem and death. They like to burn the cat, hang the dog. cut up the kid next door, kill the inconvenant wife and her babies, and strangle the kind elderly woman who makes cookies for the neighborhood. We now in California group them all together along with the unfortunate persons who had a moment of mental breakdown.

    Newsome just set them free into the general prison population to bunk with a 20 year old car thief, retarded armed robber and the serial rapist who gets parole in 8 years.
    A large nose is the mark of a witty, courteous, affable, generous and liberal man. My feature suggests an excellent side kick of good index.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    5,872

    Default Re: California halts executions (all of them!)

    No death penalty is discriminatory too. What about the person who has no desire to spend the rest of their life cooped up with the worst of the worst. I would rather die. It should still be an option.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    12,231

    Default Re: California halts executions (all of them!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pless View Post
    unlike texas, alabama, florida, et al. . . they build an inventory out there in california

    sign me, so happy to be living in the first english speaking territory in the world to outlaw capital punishment, michigan in 1847
    that's some pretty darn good virtue signalling, no?
    You grew up less then 10 miles from the Alabama death row.
    Pet photography, the degree you get when you fail aromatherapy - Duck D.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    12,231

    Default Re: California halts executions (all of them!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Gib Etheridge View Post
    No death penalty is discriminatory too. What about the person who has no desire to spend the rest of their life cooped up with the worst of the worst. I would rather die. It should still be an option.
    Why should it be about what the convicted criminal wants?
    Pet photography, the degree you get when you fail aromatherapy - Duck D.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Hell
    Posts
    93,224

    Default Re: California halts executions (all of them!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Katherine View Post
    You grew up less then 10 miles from the Alabama death row.
    about six miles from yellow mama actually
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    26,582

    Default Re: California halts executions (all of them!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Hoppe View Post
    True. Then again there are some seriously bad seeds who bring mayhem and death. They like to burn the cat, hang the dog. cut up the kid next door, kill the inconvenant wife and her babies, and strangle the kind elderly woman who makes cookies for the neighborhood. We now in California group them all together along with the unfortunate persons who had a moment of mental breakdown.

    Newsome just set them free into the general prison population
    to bunk with a 20 year old car thief, retarded armed robber and the serial rapist who gets parole in 8 years.
    I did not read that in the linked article.

    Do you have a cite for that, or are you blowing smoke?
    Rattling the teacups.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Alameda, CA
    Posts
    12,895

    Default Re: California halts executions (all of them!)

    Quote Originally Posted by oznabrag View Post
    I did not read that in the linked article.

    Do you have a cite for that, or are you blowing smoke?
    i have met and interviewed some of these who just got relief. You can speculate all you want about how the prison system plays out. I know where they are and where they will go. Solitary confinement is not cost effective nor is it what you think when they are placed elsewhere.

    Keep speculating if that helps you feel better about how we deal with the worst of the worst.

    I included a comment on what is fair and safe for those locked in and with them as well.
    Last edited by Ted Hoppe; 03-13-2019 at 01:29 PM.
    A large nose is the mark of a witty, courteous, affable, generous and liberal man. My feature suggests an excellent side kick of good index.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    26,342

    Default Re: California halts executions (all of them!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Gib Etheridge View Post
    No death penalty is discriminatory too. What about the person who has no desire to spend the rest of their life cooped up with the worst of the worst. I would rather die. It should still be an option.
    I don't believe they do or need to. There is no reason not to separate the lifers from the rest of the prison population. Not doing it is as morally wrong as capital punishment.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    26,582

    Default Re: California halts executions (all of them!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Hoppe View Post
    i have met and interviewed some of these who just got relief. You can speculate all you want about how the prison system plays out. I know where they are and where they will go. Solitary confiment is not what you think when they are placed elsewhere.

    Keep speculating if that helps you feel better about how we deal with the worst of the worst.
    You, sir, are the only one speculating, here.

    You made an assertion.

    I asked for more info.

    You became defensive and accusatory.

    Remind you any particular, orange menace?
    Rattling the teacups.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    seattle
    Posts
    15,486

    Default Re: California halts executions (all of them!)

    Of course the system of judging is flawed. But to me NO system could ever be perfect enough to justify the finality of death as a penalty.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Alameda, CA
    Posts
    12,895

    Default Re: California halts executions (all of them!)

    Quote Originally Posted by oznabrag View Post
    You, sir, are the only one speculating, here.

    You made an assertion.

    I asked for more info.

    You became defensive and accusatory.

    Remind you any particular, orange menace?
    because I know they will often kill again. They will torture thier cell mates. They will endevour to hurt or kill the guards and nurses. I know because I have seen them and been warned by their captors.

    a few months ago I posted a thread on this exact subject which I took down because I recognized I was putting myself and family in danger. The reach beyond the prison system is as scary as you can imagine. As others point out here walls do not keep out those who want to get over them.
    Last edited by Ted Hoppe; 03-13-2019 at 01:43 PM.
    A large nose is the mark of a witty, courteous, affable, generous and liberal man. My feature suggests an excellent side kick of good index.

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    26,582

    Default Re: California halts executions (all of them!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Hoppe View Post
    because I know they will often kill again. They will torture thier cell mates. They will endevour to hurt or kill the guards and nurses. I know because I have seen them and been warned by their captors.

    a few months ago I posted a thread on this exact subject which I took down because I recognized I was putting myself and family in danger. The reach beyond the prison system is as scary as you can imagine. As others point out here walls do not keep out those who want to get over them.
    Lots of fulmination and broad sweeps of the BS cannon, but no answer to my perfectly reasonable question:

    Can you provide any evidence other than your own assertion that these seven-hundred-odd prisoners are going to be indiscriminately released into the general populations of these prisons?

    I'm beginning to believe the whole idea is a product of your fevered imagination.
    Rattling the teacups.

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Alameda, CA
    Posts
    12,895

    Default Re: California halts executions (all of them!)

    Quote Originally Posted by oznabrag View Post
    Lots of fulmination and broad sweeps of the BS cannon, but no answer to my perfectly reasonable question:

    Can you provide any evidence other than your own assertion that these seven-hundred-odd prisoners are going to be indiscriminately released into the general populations of these prisons?

    I'm beginning to believe the whole idea is a product of your fevered imagination.
    Take a simple look - there is no budget for this. The California penal system is not ready for them. The special detainments for these people is not equipped to deal with this. The privileges these prisoners are afforded are not available to other inmates. On its face, it becomes unfair to other prisoners throughout the system.

    i have done a bit of work for both side of the system to know

    On a personal note - you need not be offensive to me. I treat you with respect and try to see all sides of an issue.
    Last edited by Ted Hoppe; 03-13-2019 at 02:06 PM.
    A large nose is the mark of a witty, courteous, affable, generous and liberal man. My feature suggests an excellent side kick of good index.

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    26,582

    Default Re: California halts executions (all of them!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Hoppe View Post
    Take a simple look - there is no budget for this. The California penal system is not ready for them. The special detainments for these people is not equipped to deal with this. The privileges these prisoners are afforded are not available to other inmates. On its face, it becomes unfair to other prisoners throughout the system.

    i have done a bit of work for both side of the system to know

    On a personal note - you need not be offensive to me. I treat you with respect and try to see all sides of an issue.
    You made an assertion which seems improbable on the face of it.

    I asked you for some sort of documentation.

    You have yet to provide any.
    Rattling the teacups.

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    victoria, australia. (1 address now)
    Posts
    53,676

    Default Re: California halts executions (all of them!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Wilson View Post
    I have no real moral objection to the death penalty. Some folks very much deserve it, and its great virtue is that it prevents the person from doing any more harm. The problem is that the system by which we figure out who to execute is just not reliable enough to justify killing someone. Too many screwups, biases and just randomness.
    I too can see the argument for putting down some dangerous prisoners, but likewise Keith the system is not reliable enough, and prone to bias.

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Alameda, CA
    Posts
    12,895

    Default Re: California halts executions (all of them!)

    Quote Originally Posted by oznabrag View Post
    You made an assertion which seems improbable on the face of it.

    I asked you for some sort of documentation.

    You have yet to provide any.
    According to the LA times: https://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/...nap-story.html

    At San Quentin, the danger is real. In 2010, a despondent condemned man hung himself five days after a judge converted his death sentence to life.


    Three-fourths of the condemned men at San Quentin live in East Block, a cavernous 1930s granite block building in which steel-fronted cells are stacked five high in two long rows. The inmates eat, sleep or otherwise occupy themselves in these single steel-front cells, allowed to leave a few times a week in small groups to exercise, or alone to shower or go to the law library.


    Their days are largely undisturbed.


    There are few newcomers and fewer departures. There have been only 13 executions since 1978, none since 2006.


    Outside, the state's 34 prisons remain crowded, with men double-bunked in cells built for one. Maximum-security yards are tense, rocked by the arrival of gang leaders released from solitary confinement, the result of a 2015 federal court settlement to disband the state's gang management practice of indefinite isolation.


    Many condemned inmates are leery of joining that world.


    "There's a lot of anxiety building up. Some of them are scared," said Clifton Perry, 47, condemned since 1995 for shooting a clerk during a robbery. "Me, I don't know if I can handle a bunkie after 20 years of living by myself."

    ---------


    Death row experts said states that have repealed the death penalty have successfully absorbed the condemned into their general populations, though in Connecticut, two killers had to be sent to Pennsylvania to ensure their safety.


    California would relocate condemned inmates through the same assessment program it uses for new arrivals, Thornton said, assigning them to yards and cells based on their security threat.


    There are other reasons condemned inmates may not root for an end to the death penalty, said Terry Kupers, a Berkeley-based forensic psychiatrist and expert on prison mental health.


    Condemned inmates are guaranteed relatively extensive legal representation that can foster hope. They receive better-than-par psychiatric care. And they attract the attention of a large international anti-death penalty community.


    In the general population, "they'll spend the rest of the lives behind bars," Kupers said. "Prisoners are forgotten."



    A large nose is the mark of a witty, courteous, affable, generous and liberal man. My feature suggests an excellent side kick of good index.

  26. #26
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    5,872

    Default Re: California halts executions (all of them!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Katherine View Post
    Why should it be about what the convicted criminal wants?
    There's that alright.

  27. #27
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    26,582

    Default Re: California halts executions (all of them!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Hoppe View Post
    According to the LA times: https://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/...nap-story.html

    At San Quentin, the danger is real. In 2010, a despondent condemned man hung himself five days after a judge converted his death sentence to life.


    Three-fourths of the condemned men at San Quentin live in East Block, a cavernous 1930s granite block building in which steel-fronted cells are stacked five high in two long rows. The inmates eat, sleep or otherwise occupy themselves in these single steel-front cells, allowed to leave a few times a week in small groups to exercise, or alone to shower or go to the law library.


    Their days are largely undisturbed.


    There are few newcomers and fewer departures. There have been only 13 executions since 1978, none since 2006.


    Outside, the state's 34 prisons remain crowded, with men double-bunked in cells built for one. Maximum-security yards are tense, rocked by the arrival of gang leaders released from solitary confinement, the result of a 2015 federal court settlement to disband the state's gang management practice of indefinite isolation.


    Many condemned inmates are leery of joining that world.


    "There's a lot of anxiety building up. Some of them are scared," said Clifton Perry, 47, condemned since 1995 for shooting a clerk during a robbery. "Me, I don't know if I can handle a bunkie after 20 years of living by myself."

    ---------


    Death row experts said states that have repealed the death penalty have successfully absorbed the condemned into their general populations, though in Connecticut, two killers had to be sent to Pennsylvania to ensure their safety.

    California would relocate condemned inmates through the same assessment program it uses for new arrivals, Thornton said, assigning them to yards and cells based on their security threat.


    There are other reasons condemned inmates may not root for an end to the death penalty, said Terry Kupers, a Berkeley-based forensic psychiatrist and expert on prison mental health.


    Condemned inmates are guaranteed relatively extensive legal representation that can foster hope. They receive better-than-par psychiatric care. And they attract the attention of a large international anti-death penalty community.


    In the general population, "they'll spend the rest of the lives behind bars," Kupers said. "Prisoners are forgotten."



    Thanks.

    So these men will NOT be turned out into genpop willy-nilly.

    Thanks again.
    Rattling the teacups.

  28. #28
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    1,456

    Default Re: California halts executions (all of them!)

    Hard to believe: a man on death row has more hope than a prisoner for life.

  29. #29
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Between Bourgeoisie and Proletariat - Australia
    Posts
    3,243

    Default Re: California halts executions (all of them!)

    The death penalty is an act of barbarisim.
    No criminal is such completely on their own. Society has a case to answer everytime a person goes down the wrong path. The death penalty is simply hidding away from that responsibility behind the state sanctioned murder of another human - and only because it is simply 'too hard' to do otherwise.

    You can live in a vengeful society or a forgiving one. Not both. The death penalty is the extreme end where the metal of a society is tested. America has an obsession with punishment. It's got 25% of the worlds prisoners - or some stupid number like that. Is it a vengeful country or one of hope?
    Philip K. Dick 'Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away'.

  30. #30
    Join Date
    Oct 1999
    Location
    St. Paul, MN, USA
    Posts
    51,658

    Default Re: California halts executions (all of them!)

    Quote Originally Posted by gypsie View Post
    TIs it a vengeful country or one of hope?
    Yes.
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

    Richard Feynman

  31. #31
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    The Garden State
    Posts
    3,696

    Default Re: California halts executions (all of them!)

    I am not a fan of executions. I think they are barbaric and accomplish nothing. Having said that, if this ban saves one innocent life, keeping all 700+ prisoners alive is worth it
    "If you think you are too small to make a difference, try sleeping with a mosquito"

    -Dalai Lama

  32. #32
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Between Bourgeoisie and Proletariat - Australia
    Posts
    3,243

    Default Re: California halts executions (all of them!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Wilson View Post
    Yes.
    And who will decide when to be one or the other?
    Yourself maybe? Or maybe some nutwing republican appointed anti-abortion gun toting freak show?
    Philip K. Dick 'Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away'.

  33. #33
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Northwest Oregon coast
    Posts
    27,158

    Default Re: California halts executions (all of them!)

    Here is a brief look at some of the more notorious death row inmates who will be temporarily spared under Gov. Gavin Newsom’s executive order halting executions in California while he is in office.

    Darnell Williams

    Williams killed 8-year-old Alaysha Carradine in Oakland and 22-year-old Anthony Medearis in Berkeley in separate shootings in 2013. In the former, Williams’ intended target was the ex-girlfriend of a man he believed had killed a friend. Alaysha reportedly told a paramedic “I’m dead” before she died from a gunshot wound to the base of her neck.

  34. #34
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Northwest Oregon coast
    Posts
    27,158

    Default Re: California halts executions (all of them!)

    Richard Allen Davis, seen in court in 1996, kidnapped 12-year-old Polly Klaas from her bedroom at knife-point during a slumber party at her Petaluma home in October 1993. Later that night, Sonoma County sheriff's deputies, unaware Davis was a parole violator or that police had reported the kidnapping, let him go after finding his car stuck in a ditch on a private road near Petaluma. In a confession to police, Davis said he had untied Polly and put her on an embankment a short distance away before the deputies arrived and freed his car. After they let him go, Davis said, he concluded he had to kill the girl to avoid being sent back to prison, and strangled her with a knotted cloth.

  35. #35
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Northwest Oregon coast
    Posts
    27,158

    Default Re: California halts executions (all of them!)

    Photo: Frederic Larson, The Chronicle 1990
    IMAGE 4 OF 66
    Ramon Salcido killed his wife, two young daughters, three other relatives and his supervisor at a Sonoma County winery during a three-hour rampage in 1989. Salcido fled to his hometown of Los Mochis, Mexico, after the killings, but he was arrested five days later and returned to California where he was later sentenced to death.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •