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Thread: What do you think of this yach? A good buy?

  1. #1
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    Default What do you think of this yach? A good buy?

    I saw this, i dont know if its good, design wise, it can be fixed, im sure.
    Butbare these rigges anygood short hand?
    i like idea of junk rig with jibs etc, but opinions on vessell appreciated.
    my intention is to use for blue water. To cross oceans and visit far away lands meet ineteresting people and kill them, oh wait thats the army,
    create art, thats what ill do.
    So a live a board cruiser is its intended use.

    https://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/sans...ork/1212301514
    Attached Images Attached Images

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    Default Re: What do you think of this yach? A good buy?

    don't want to rain on you but that's a lot of boat and a lot of work and cash to maintain, let alone get back up to offshore survey.
    have you got $3-400,000 in the bank now. if not run away.

    I know nothing about your situation and so could be completely wrong about this.
    how about spending $30,000 on a really nice plastic H28.
    get one that someone else has done up in the last 5 years and got too old to sail.
    zq

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    Default Re: What do you think of this yach? A good buy?

    Knowing a few things , make that a few thousand things, about 40 foot,50 year old ,wood cruising boats may trump having lots of money, but it would still take lots of time, sweat and blood.
    What crazy stuff have you been reading that you prefer a junk with jibs ?
    The ad says zero about the hull construction.
    I do like the stove, I have the same one.
    bruce

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    I saw that the other day. Its not a junk rig. Ketch with wishbone booms I think. Odd that the engine has been rebuilt recently when the deck is such a wreck. If the hull is sound a new deck is not so hard to do as I am finding out. The interior looks shot too though. Lots and lots of work there. A boat in better condition would be much better value. And simply cheaper by the time you get out for your first sail.

    Sent from my CPH1851 using Tapatalk

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    Default Re: What do you think of this yach? A good buy?

    Come on 3-400k i can buy a dozen boats for that!

  6. #6
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    Default Re: What do you think of this yach? A good buy?

    Quote Originally Posted by canvas to the wind! View Post
    Come on 3-400k i can buy a dozen boats for that!
    Yup - you can. But repairing & maintaining a boat is far more expensive than the purchase unless the boat is brand new. I can speak to this from experience

    That boat needs a lot of work. Even if you can do it all yourself, materials alone could run 10's of thousands.

    My 2 cents.
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

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    Default Re: What do you think of this yach? A good buy?

    Hi phil, i may have sounded confusing, i meant turn it into a junk rig with a jib. Apparently they are good for short handed sailing.
    you raise a good point re motor, ill bring it up on saturday.
    i suppose two things, i dont have 30k i am an artist and a reluctant builder, so im use to taking on larger projects than i think possible. Its a motivator for me anyway.
    im not in a hurry to make it look a million dollars.

    What i would do, is fix cabin and deck, get motor going, etc, prob just paint it all white inside and out, and just put some timber trim. Timber seats etc. i like that look. Too much wood is a bit 1960 office laminate look.
    anyway, i have 6-12 months o do it up if i buy.
    yes i will check it all out and not rush in.
    But i can afford to chip away at it v outrite purchase.
    and in a way, doing a boat up is an invaluable learning curve mearly spending money can never replace.
    Not that i dont listen to advice, im mearly discussing.
    pros and cons.etc
    letsvsay i get it for 5k, i spend five on paint and timber and glue, resin and whatever.
    It will have to be worth 10 as a going concern so i cant lose too badly?

    it has new sails and motor
    the costs will be in materials, paint, new wiring, new elecronics, new bits and pieces, sheets etc.

    i will prob rip most of the guts out and start again with my own take on it.

    i am pretty handy with timber. And would love to make an australian rustic bush kind of crafty fit out.

    but as i say, get it going, and just keep playing around with all that stuff in spare time.

    nb clearly i have no idea about wooden boats

    thou i have renovated a houn pine clinker for a very wealthy client, so i know the asks. Ie 10 coats of varnish. I built seats and what not out of houn, i even sculptured a human head as a support instead of just a block of wood. So i enjoy wood.
    I was selling wooden sculptures at age 9 in salamaca markets in hobart, so ive always worked with it. And my hands.
    that bit i enjoy. Though im no ship right, and have to date zero knowledge of shipbuilding.
    but patching a cabin and deck should be easy. Just see wha they did when i take it apart.
    Any way its about learning right.
    ill start my journey, talk to a few folks here and there, and find my way as i do.

    Anyway, please feel free to say whaever you want
    smash it out , call me a fool, offer advice, no problems i dont get offended easily.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: What do you think of this yach? A good buy?

    "i dont know if its good, design wise, it can be fixed, im sure"

    This tells me you do not fully understand how big of a project this boat presents. Figure about 2000 man hours of labor, plus materials and equipment.

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    Default Re: What do you think of this yach? A good buy?

    Needs work. Two of the scariest words in the english language. That boat needs a LOT of work. Walk away before you dump a ton of money into a hole in the water that has no bottom.....

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    Default Re: What do you think of this yach? A good buy?

    Garrett, please, offer a rough break down.
    I suppose if it seems sound of hull etc and i make purchase.
    take it to slip, clean hull and paint with copper or maybe new silicon antifoul? Water blast the whole boat on land.
    Check timber etc, maybe have an expert look at it. Water blasting may reveal any rot or bad paint.
    But if i poke around im sure i can see rot.
    ok so the hull, 2k-2500? Or how much?
    Load up materials and extra stuff and find a mooring.
    Materials in timber is unknown from 1-1500, just for cabin, plenty. Screws etc paint, sikaflex, or whatever mateials boat builders use.
    Take cabin apart, and replace.
    And paint. non slip paint or ?
    ok. Cabin done. 3weeks part time and 1500$ materials.
    get engine going. ? Unknown.
    Rip out any unwanted fitout and paint inside.
    Paint rest of boat.
    sand and paint masts.
    Big job if i have to climb.

    I can see where putting on hard is a good idea. Luxury.

    what paint should i use?

    replace wiring. Lights etc ad electronics of choice.

    would love any realistic additions?

  11. #11
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    Default Re: What do you think of this yach? A good buy?

    No need to pay full price, the boat is on ebay for another 5 days, no reserve, currently at 510$.

    https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Fenger-4...edirect=mobile

  12. #12
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    Default Re: What do you think of this yach? A good buy?

    Quote Originally Posted by canvas to the wind! View Post
    Garrett, please, offer a rough break down.
    I suppose if it seems sound of hull etc and i make purchase.
    take it to slip, clean hull and paint with copper or maybe new silicon antifoul? Water blast the whole boat on land.
    Check timber etc, maybe have an expert look at it. Water blasting may reveal any rot or bad paint.
    But if i poke around im sure i can see rot.
    ok so the hull, 2k-2500? Or how much?
    Load up materials and extra stuff and find a mooring.
    Materials in timber is unknown from 1-1500, just for cabin, plenty. Screws etc paint, sikaflex, or whatever mateials boat builders use.
    Take cabin apart, and replace.
    And paint. non slip paint or ?
    ok. Cabin done. 3weeks part time and 1500$ materials.
    get engine going. ? Unknown.
    Rip out any unwanted fitout and paint inside.
    Paint rest of boat.
    sand and paint masts.
    Big job if i have to climb.

    I can see where putting on hard is a good idea. Luxury.

    what paint should i use?

    replace wiring. Lights etc ad electronics of choice.

    would love any realistic additions?
    Sorry - but there's no way I can offer any real breakdown without a survey of the boat. You say 'replace the cabin". OK - what wood? Teak? There's 10K right there (picking a # out of the air). Bronze screws? another 1K. If the cabin is that bad, what about all the deck beams it attaches to? What about the deck itself?

    This pic makes me think there would be deck work in your future:



    as the rot in the cabin side probably extends down to the deck as well.

    Is the aft cabin as bad? No pics of the interior of that.

    Now - what about the hull? Are all the planks solid? Are all the frames solid? Keelbolts? Deadwood between the ballast & bottom?

    How are the masts? Lots of peeled paint. Is there rot there?

    Lots of junk sitting in the cockpit. Is the sole solid? Beams under it?

    Electrical: you need tinned marine wire for a boat & it ain't cheap. I bet 100% needs to be replaced.

    There's more - but IMO, what you need to do is to get a survey by a professional surveyor who is familiar with wood boats. Yes - it'll cost $500 or so + the cost of hauling her. Worth every penny.
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

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    Default Re: What do you think of this yach? A good buy?

    Thanks navy dog
    ive only ever worked on houses. Some furniture, oh and a 12’ houn pine clinker. Took months of sanding scraping varnish etc, painfull.
    2000 hours, i just checked, thats full time for a year straight!
    really..am i missing somthing. Besides the cabin rot in photo etc.
    im guessing you mean unknowns?

    my goal would be functional first. Not full showroom sydney harbour restoration of heritage listed boat.

    i guess two things, wait 3, i will get a better idea of what looks bad and what is bad when i am in boat.
    i dont mind work. And can work efficiently. Out on the sea is another story.

    and 3 my goal would be functional first. Not full showroom sydney harbour restoration of heritage listed boat.

    happy to paint white in oil. Spray it even. Super fast.
    clean paint and then do fiddly bits. First things first, engine lights plumbing etc.

    get a little diesel genny, and fire it up. Listen to some music and dream of getting out of sydney harbour...while others are dreaming of saling here!

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    Default Re: What do you think of this yach? A good buy?

    Garret i agree, a survey will do me well.

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    Default Re: What do you think of this yach? A good buy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rumars View Post
    No need to pay full price, the boat is on ebay for another 5 days, no reserve, currently at 510$.

    https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Fenger-4...edirect=mobile
    Well well well...thanks!

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    Default Re: What do you think of this yach? A good buy?

    Quote Originally Posted by canvas to the wind! View Post
    get a little diesel genny, and fire it up. Listen to some music and dream of getting out of sydney harbour...while others are dreaming of saling here!
    LOL this seems like a familiar routine. This thread would've been a lot more fun on SA.

    Remember us little people with the bad advice and be sure to send back a postcard, mmmhkay?

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    Where you going to keep it even if you get it for free? Looks like a floating reef.
    Check the condition of Victoria on building Arabella. Also check out Leo Samson's tally ho. Just then you might get a grasp on reality

    Let it go, or get a different set of eyes that are not the eyes of an artist. I once lived with an artist....🙄
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

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    Default Re: What do you think of this yach? A good buy?

    With the visible rot above the waterline I'd be extremely concerned about the condition below the waterline. I could see spending at least a year, possibly two on the hard just getting her truly seaworthy and that's if you have shipwrights' skills. She was a lovely boat when she was built, but... So the questions for you are: How do you want to spend your next several years? Will working on your boat and future home satisfy your creative needs? Can you afford the yard fees, materials and living expenses while you work on it? Seeing these always tear a little piece of my heart out, but I've acknowledged my limitations and I fend off my regrets by maintaining what I have.

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    Default Re: What do you think of this yach? A good buy?

    Run away
    whatever rocks your boat

  20. #20
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    Default Re: What do you think of this yach? A good buy?

    Having provided the ebay link I feel obliged to add this:

    You are in for at least 15 000$ and a full month of 10h/day 7 days/week workload the moment you sign the papers. This is of course asuming the hull is sound, wich I don't believe for a moment.

    Best case scenario (most unprobable): you can take over the mooring (pay for a year in advance), the boat does not take on water (other than rain I mean). First order of business is securing liability insurance for the boat. Then buy a big dinghy and outboard to get to the boat. Find docking for dinghy and parking space for car in close proximity (you need to haul al lot of materials to and from the boat). Third buy a small inverter generator to be able to run powertools on board. (You now already doubled the price of the boat just by doing this).
    Asses, repair and repaint engine and associate systems. Fuel tank needs at least removal and cleaning, or replace with new. All rubber hoses on the boat need replacing with appropiate grade. This may first necessitate diving under the boat to plug all thruhulls from outside. Deck needs complete replacement (he said so in the ad), cockpit also, deckhouses. This forum is full of deck replacements with pictures, search and see what it takes. Having done all this you reached the stage of non functioning motorboat. Now you need a haulout and some days on the hard. Here you need to: replace keelbolts, drop the rudder to inspect and repair or replace rudder hardware, pull driveshaft to replace cutlass bearing, repack stuffing box, replace or rebed all thruhulls, sand the bottom and apply new antifouling. Congratulations, with a new battery and nav lights, you now have reached the stage of functioning motorboat. The 15000$ are long gone but at least you can sit at the mooring in a dry boat and can move here at will. Sailboat status is for the next 15000$.

    Now the bad news: taking over the mooring is probably not possible. No marina will let you in. You need to find a yard willing to haul you out and let you do the repairs on the hard. If the floors and keel are not rock solid the only option for haulout is a marine railway. You need a tow to the yard. Having rainwater in the bilges has rotten the frameheels, half the floors and the mastheels. Depending on how she was buildt keel, stem and sterntimbers may also need replacement. Etc.

    Only way bidding on her makes sense is if:
    1. She has 10t of lead ballast.
    2. Is copper/bronze fastened
    3. The mooring comes with the boat.

    If she proves to much trouble you wreck her, sell the ballast and fasteners for scrap, reclaim the good wood for art, burn the rest and sell everything remaining on ebay. Brings you about even. If the ballast is iron or cement you have to pay to have her wrecked.
    If the mooring is not included don't bother. I doubt you can find a cheap hardstand with DIY permission in that area.

    If you are still interested contact the guy, take a big flat screwdriver, powerfull flashlight and digital camera, suit up in a Tyvek overall and dustmask and go see the boat. Crawl all over it, take plenty of photos, poke everything you see with the screwdriver and pepper the guy with questions about the boats construction and history. Then come back here, post photos and read opinions. You have 5 days left.

  21. #21
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    Default Re: What do you think of this yach? A good buy?

    Most boats like this can be saved, but not all boats that can be saved should be saved.
    In my opinion, there are probably more worthy candidates on the market, if you are considering spending that amount of effort, time and money.
    See the "Save a Classic" feature in WoodenBoat.

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    Default Re: What do you think of this yach? A good buy?

    Thank you for everyones advice. There are two camps, run away, and proceed with extreem caution. ��

    i will view on saturday and will go as hard as i can poking about with sharp metal object.

    A pre survey if you will.

    Hugh , valid questions.

    callsign222 i dont think im treating anyone beneath me. I am taking on advice, and especially from people who have rebuilt boats. But if by chance its not a total writeoff and only a few months work and under 20k ill be sure to send you the first poast card, but can you read big people writing, or do i just sent pretty pictures

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    Take a diver with you unless you have diving gear! Things never mentioned or even considered by new to the craft people are the keel, "floors" stern, bow, transom, keel timbers, garboards,
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

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    Default Re: What do you think of this yach? A good buy?

    Quote Originally Posted by canvas to the wind! View Post
    Thank you for everyones advice. There are two camps, run away, and proceed with extreem caution. ��
    I think you are reading it wrong there is the "run away fast" camp and the "run away because" camp.

    20k and a few months is wishfull thinking. Can the boat be saved? Of course, anything can be rebuildt given enough time and money. Is the boat a good deal? Well, I am sure there is a guy out there for wich it could be so. He would be in his 20's, makes good money and dreams to sail this boat at 40. His father is recently retired, amateur woodworker with full shop and owns a big property with a big barn just on the outskirts of town. He pays for moving the boat to his fathers property (costs more then he pays for the boat) and the father is filled with joy at the prospect of a new hobby.

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    Default Re: What do you think of this yach? A good buy?

    Quote Originally Posted by canvas to the wind! View Post

    callsign222 i dont think im treating anyone beneath me. I am taking on advice, and especially from people who have rebuilt boats. But if by chance its not a total writeoff and only a few months work and under 20k ill be sure to send you the first poast card, but can you read big people writing, or do i just sent pretty pictures
    Just the pretty pictures, please, my head already hurts enough!

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    Default Re: What do you think of this yach? A good buy?


  27. #27
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    Default Re: What do you think of this yach? A good buy?

    [QUOTE=callsign222;5838643]There are some nice boats on that website.

    https://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/sydn...cht/1210065166

    yes i did see them, but alas a bit too small.

  28. #28
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    Default Re: What do you think of this yach? A good buy?

    Quote Originally Posted by wizbang 13 View Post
    Knowing a few things , make that a few thousand things, about 40 foot,50 year old ,wood cruising boats may trump having lots of money, but it would still take lots of time, sweat and blood.
    What crazy stuff have you been reading that you prefer a junk with jibs ?
    The ad says zero about the hull construction.
    I do like the stove, I have the same one.
    bruce
    Ok , colvin gazelle, china cloud, the modern junk is aided by jib in winward performance. Apparently.

    the attraction to junk rig is ease of use and diy maintinence. Etc see 50 advantages to a junk rig https://www.boatdesign.net/threads/t...unk-rig.49409/

    the junk allows easy short hand, easy maintienence, low cost, good in storms, etc
    Last edited by canvas to the wind!; 03-14-2019 at 03:01 AM.

  29. #29
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    I didn't see anyone say proceed with caution. That boat is a huge liability and way beyond being worth saving. Less work, less cost and quicker to build new. Seriously. I suppose you could hit it with a chopper gun, build a glass boat around the core. But you'd have all that rotting timber sitting in there. There's just no good story here. You don't get a lovely romantic big sailing boat for $5000. Go looking with $100,000 and you will find something worthwhile of that sort of size. Maybe $80,000 if you are happy to do some work, have good knowledge of boats, somewhere to do the work, .....

    That boat just makes me happy that I'm rebuilding my deck now, before it's too late.

    If you really want a decent sized cheap boat there's a Duncanson 37 in Adelaide advertised for $22,000. Osmosis and a siezed motor, but great price for an extremely capable cruising boat.

    Sent from my CPH1851 using Tapatalk
    Last edited by Phil Y; 03-14-2019 at 03:17 AM.

  30. #30
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    Default Re: What do you think of this yach? A good buy?

    Looking at the pic of the inside cabin the construction os far from pedigree. The knees look like the work of an amature, not a professional boat builder. That alone is cause for concern but with the rest of the issues present i would walk away as there are so many better options, eg one colin archer in Batemans Bay Sound boat that needs deck work.
    If war is the answer........... it must be a profoundly stupid question

  31. #31
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    Default Re: What do you think of this yach? A good buy?

    Thanks Hallam, can you provide link please?

  32. #32
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    Default Re: What do you think of this yach? A good buy?

    [QUOTE=canvas to the wind!;5839024]Ok , colvin gazelle, china cloud, the modern junk is aided by jib in winward performance. Apparently.

    the attraction to junk rig is ease of use and diy maintinence. Etc see 50 advantages to a junk rig https://www.boatdesign.net/threads/t...unk-rig.49409/

    the junk allows easy short hand, easy maintienence, low cost, good in storms, etc[/QUOT

    Exactly, You are putting too much weight into your armchair experience.
    You know how much ocean sailing China Cloud has done?
    Staysl ketch, that exists, has all the benefits of an easily handled rig as a junk with jibs.
    Last edited by wizbang 13; 03-14-2019 at 07:31 AM.

  33. #33
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    Default Re: What do you think of this yach? A good buy?

    Do you have access to unlimited funds? Do you have unlimited free time?
    Do you want to go sailing or do you want to spend the next three to five years working your ass off?

    Turn around, walk away.....

  34. #34
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    Default Re: What do you think of this yach? A good buy?

    Thanks for that wizbang, i didnt realize it was a good short hand rig!

  35. #35
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    Default Re: What do you think of this yach? A good buy?

    Did anybody else ever have a buddy who fell in love with the town tramp and nothing, not a single thing, his friends could say could talk him out of it?

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