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Thread: Vaccines are bad!

  1. #1
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    Default Vaccines are bad!

    Not getting vaccinated can be much worse. At least the parent didn't belong to a faith healing church of mumbo jumbo. I really feel for the kid and the financial straits the parents are in.

    https://www.oregonlive.com/health/20...-in-bills.html

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    Default Re: Vaccines are bad!

    I am not sure which is more horrific: The lack of concern of the parents, or the rapaciousness of the US medical system.

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    Default Re: Vaccines are bad!

    In Pakistan 700 people have died in the current polio vaccination effort. They were people trying to give vaccinations.

    Doctors without Borders have stepped back from their ebola containment efforts which include vaccinations.

    Trust is important. Forcing people does not promote trust.
    Life is complex.

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    Default Re: Vaccines are bad!

    You get into serious sick, the level of care and the cost go up remarkably. Ounce of prevention, and all. On that note, the antivaxers have convinced their congressmen to submit exemption bills in 20 states. Social media has done a bang up job of promoting their agenda. I’ve never kicked a denialist out of my practice- but a lot of clinics do. Might have to reconsider.
    There's a lot of things they didn't tell me when I signed on with this outfit....

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    Default Re: Vaccines are bad!

    Quote Originally Posted by Too Little Time View Post
    In Pakistan 700 people have died in the current polio vaccination effort. They were people trying to give vaccinations.

    Doctors without Borders have stepped back from their ebola containment efforts which include vaccinations.

    Trust is important. Forcing people does not promote trust.
    Do you have links to reputable sources for that?

    Note that in Samoa two babies died shortly after the standard injected vaccines were given, and there was a huge hooraw among the anti vaccine lobby, but it was proven that the people who administered the injections had done so in a dangerous manner. I believe that the official inquest has not been completed yet but it seems that there was air injected with the vaccine causing embolism. Not the fault of the vaccine.

    John Welsford
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    Default Re: Vaccines are bad!

    Quote Originally Posted by john welsford View Post
    Do you have links to reputable sources for that?

    Note that in Samoa two babies died shortly after the standard injected vaccines were given, and there was a huge hooraw among the anti vaccine lobby, but it was proven that the people who administered the injections had done so in a dangerous manner. I believe that the official inquest has not been completed yet but it seems that there was air injected with the vaccine causing embolism. Not the fault of the vaccine.

    John Welsford
    Perhaps you misunderstood. The 700 who died were helping to give vaccines. The story was on the news or in the papers. ABC, NBC, CBS, NY TImes, Wall Street Journal, Washington Post.

    I have reputable sources. Even Google can find support for my comments.
    Life is complex.

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    Default Re: Vaccines are bad!

    Quote Originally Posted by Too Little Time View Post
    Perhaps you misunderstood. The 700 who died were helping to give vaccines. The story was on the news or in the papers. ABC, NBC, CBS, NY TImes, Wall Street Journal, Washington Post.

    I have reputable sources. Even Google can find support for my comments.
    Ok, I misunderstood. I wonder why they died helping to give vaccines? Local superstition causing those against vaccines to react violently?
    Found it. I hope that those mullahs get a really nasty disease.


    John Welsford
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    Default Re: Vaccines are bad!

    The situation in Pakistan is understandable - regretable and very very stupid.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-14117438

    https://news.nationalgeographic.com/...ama-bin-laden/

    You gotta reap just what you sow.
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    Quote Originally Posted by robm View Post
    I am not sure which is more horrific: The lack of concern of the parents, or the rapaciousness of the US medical system.

    DTaP vaccine (Diptheris, Tetanus, and Pertussis aka Whooping Cough), retails for $60 bucks at a Walgreens near you. Prolly less if you're insured.

    The $800k hospital bill -- 2 months in hospital! -- is because the kid nearly died of an easily preventable disease that nobody gets any more.

    Parents ought to be jailed for child endangerment.
    You would not enjoy Nietzsche, sir. He is fundamentally unsound. — P.G. Wodehouse (Carry On, Jeeves)

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    Default Re: Vaccines are bad!

    it gets worse. The parents still won't vaccinate him for the rest: This should be a case for Child Welfare

    https://www.sciencealert.com/oregon-...s-from-tetanus
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    Default Re: Vaccines are bad!

    I wacked my leg with a 16 grit last month in Carriacou.
    6 stitches , a prescription for anti biotics and a recommendation for a Tetanus booster.
    I did not use the script or take the shot.
    ...lived to tell the tale.

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    Default Re: Vaccines are bad!

    Quote Originally Posted by wizbang 13 View Post
    I wacked my leg with a 16 grit last month in Carriacou.
    6 stitches , a prescription for anti biotics and a recommendation for a Tetanus booster.
    I did not use the script or take the shot.
    ...lived to tell the tale.
    Just because you are a lucky fool will not stop other people contracting tetanus or measles.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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    Default Re: Vaccines are bad!

    But I foolishly think I am stronger because of it.

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    Default Re: Vaccines are bad!

    Hey! Since the dumb asses all voted for Trump, maybe there will be a die-off which will save democracy!

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    Default Re: Vaccines are bad!

    Quote Originally Posted by Nicholas Carey View Post
    DTaP vaccine (Diptheris, Tetanus, and Pertussis aka Whooping Cough), retails for $60 bucks at a Walgreens near you. Prolly less if you're insured.

    The $800k hospital bill -- 2 months in hospital! -- is because the kid nearly died of an easily preventable disease that nobody gets any more.

    Parents ought to be jailed for child endangerment.
    I read the story. Then I did some research. A series of 5 shots are required. So the cost is considerable for many.

    I see in your comments a bit of false outrage. As a country we let people freeze to death for lack of shelter and go without food. I don't see you or many others making a claim they give significant amounts of money to help those people. But one person makes a choice that you should have little interest in and jail is your response.
    Life is complex.

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    Default Re: Vaccines are bad!

    Quote Originally Posted by Too Little Time View Post
    I read the story. Then I did some research. A series of 5 shots are required. So the cost is considerable for many.

    I see in your comments a bit of false outrage. As a country we let people freeze to death for lack of shelter and go without food. I don't see you or many others making a claim they give significant amounts of money to help those people. But one person makes a choice that you should have little interest in and jail is your response.
    Not everyone needs to wear their community service on their sleeve. There was a term SkyBlue once used for people who do that... oh yes.. "Virtue signaling"
    Last edited by Art Haberland; 03-11-2019 at 12:04 PM.
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    Default Re: Vaccines are bad!

    The photo of the bacteria culture looks like a polo player trying to run down an anti-vaxer.
    "The future is already here — it's just not very evenly distributed." William Gibson

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    Default Re: Vaccines are bad!

    Quote Originally Posted by wizbang 13 View Post
    I wacked my leg with a 16 grit last month in Carriacou.
    6 stitches , a prescription for anti biotics and a recommendation for a Tetanus booster.
    I did not use the script or take the shot.
    ...lived to tell the tale.
    Your point? Step on a rusty nail is no guarantee you'll have a serious problem, but why take the chance?
    How do we form a mutiny? Our new captain is navigating poorly.

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    Default Re: Vaccines are bad!

    Quote Originally Posted by Too Little Time View Post
    I read the story. Then I did some research. A series of 5 shots are required. So the cost is considerable for many.

    I see in your comments a bit of false outrage. As a country we let people freeze to death for lack of shelter and go without food. I don't see you or many others making a claim they give significant amounts of money to help those people. But one person makes a choice that you should have little interest in and jail is your response.
    Frankly, it what brags about being the wealthiest country in the world, I see no excuse for people not having heat, food, or vaccines.
    How do we form a mutiny? Our new captain is navigating poorly.

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    Default Re: Vaccines are bad!

    Quote Originally Posted by John Smith View Post
    Your point? Step on a rusty nail is no guarantee you'll have a serious problem, but why take the chance?
    I did not step on a rusty nail , I was abraided by a new, 16 grit grinding disc. If I had been cut on a rusty piece of steel , maybe I would o got the shot.
    My point? I need a point?
    I do OTHER things that keep me healthy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Too Little Time View Post
    I read the story. Then I did some research. A series of 5 shots are required. So the cost is considerable for many.

    Even at the retail rate... $300 over 5 years. Zilch, zero, zip if you're insured (required by law — thanks, 44!). Curiously, insurance companies see vaccinations as rather cost-effective. For them. You'd think vaccinations might be effective.

    Contrast that to more than $800,000.
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    Default Re: Vaccines are bad!

    I've been thinking about this thread. My daughter has two dogs. Quite loving, but also quite active. From time to time my wife or I get a scratch. I'm sure that's not unique. They run around in the dog park, my daughter's back yard, and when they visit, our back yard.

    Probably not a bad idea to keep tetanus shots up to date.
    How do we form a mutiny? Our new captain is navigating poorly.

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    Default Re: Vaccines are bad!

    For our local denialist- a question? You say not getting vaccinated makes you stronger. I’m curious- how does that work?
    There's a lot of things they didn't tell me when I signed on with this outfit....

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    Default Re: Vaccines are bad!

    Bump. Don’t be shy now!
    There's a lot of things they didn't tell me when I signed on with this outfit....

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    Default Re: Vaccines are bad!

    Quote Originally Posted by Nicholas Carey View Post
    Even at the retail rate... $300 over 5 years. Zilch, zero, zip if you're insured (required by law — thanks, 44!). Curiously, insurance companies see vaccinations as rather cost-effective. For them. You'd think vaccinations might be effective.

    Contrast that to more than $800,000.
    I think vaccines are good. I just don't see forcing people to get them as reasonable.
    Life is complex.

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    Default Re: Vaccines are bad!

    Quote Originally Posted by twodot View Post

    The libertarian arguments are specious, like arguments against wearing seat belts.
    FTFY. It's the arm swinging thing again, a part of the social contract as you mention.
    "The future is already here — it's just not very evenly distributed." William Gibson

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    Default Re: Vaccines are bad!

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Gray View Post
    Not getting vaccinated can be much worse. At least the parent didn't belong to a faith healing church of mumbo jumbo. I really feel for the kid and the financial straits the parents are in.

    https://www.oregonlive.com/health/20...-in-bills.html
    If I was that family’s insurance company, I would drop them when they refused the rest of the vaccinations. Idiots!
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  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Too Little Time View Post
    I think vaccines are good. I just don't see forcing people to get them as reasonable.

    In general, it is a thing called herd immunity. One gets immunized not protect yourself... but to protect everybody. It is a part of the social contract. My rubella (German measles) vaccination, while it might protect me individually, really protects pregnant mothers and their unborn children.

    In the case of tetanus, though, it is largely to protect yourself, because you're pretty unlikely to contract it from another person. And you don't acquire tetanus immunity from contracting tetanus... because you generally die from tetanus.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herd_immunity

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    Default Re: Vaccines are bad!

    Quote Originally Posted by Nicholas Carey View Post
    In general, it is a thing called herd immunity. One gets immunized not protect yourself... but to protect everybody. It is a part of the social contract. My rubella (German measles) vaccination, while it might protect me individually, really protects pregnant mothers and their unborn children.
    I am good friends with a family whose mother was exposed to rubella when pregnant.
    Their son is now in middle age, and has profound deafness, no language skills whatsoever, is incontinent and in diapers, and lives in sheltered accommodation with 24 hour carers on site.
    They are long past retirement age and not strong enough to care for their son, who may well outlive them.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  30. #30
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    Default Re: Vaccines are bad!

    Quote Originally Posted by twodot View Post
    Thus there is a social contract obligation in obtaining them.

    Again, a social contract obligation.
    I agree there are social obligations. But I don't see vaccinations as part of that contract.
    Life is complex.

  31. #31
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    Default Re: Vaccines are bad!

    Quote Originally Posted by Nicholas Carey View Post
    In general, it is a thing called herd immunity.
    The last frame of your graphic is the important one.

    A certain number of people need to be vaccinated to contain a disease. That is different than 100% of the people.

    It seems that the current number of vaccinated individuals in the US is sufficient to contain measles. So there must be another reason to want more.
    Life is complex.

  32. #32
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    Default Re: Vaccines are bad!

    Empathy, or the lack thereof.
    There's a lot of things they didn't tell me when I signed on with this outfit....

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    Default Re: Vaccines are bad!

    Quote Originally Posted by Too Little Time View Post
    The last frame of your graphic is the important one.

    A certain number of people need to be vaccinated to contain a disease. That is different than 100% of the people.

    It seems that the current number of vaccinated individuals in the US is sufficient to contain measles. So there must be another reason to want more.
    Your reasoning here would only be valid if it were possible to guarantee with 100% certainty that there will always be a sufficient number of vaccinated people in a population to prevent diseases from affecting more than an acceptably small number of individuals (who determines how many cases are "acceptable"?) . But there is no way to do that, so it's essential to strive for 100% vaccination rates, knowing that that number will probably never actually be met. Well, at least it's essential if you're concerned at all about public health and the adverse impacts on society of infectious diseases.

    As for those small numbers of individuals who do contract the diseases in your scenario, I guess we should just consider them to be necessary sacrifices to the god of "individual rights", right?
    I rather be an American than a Republican.

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    Quote Originally Posted by George Jung View Post
    For our local denialist- a question? You say not getting vaccinated makes you stronger. I’m curious- how does that work?
    Dr George, I am not a denialist and Im not shy. Im in Carriacou where the internet is spotty working daily on a friends boat.
    Im not keen on anti biotics, flu and tetanus shots, western Rx and fear.
    The answer to your question is the general , "what does not kill you makes you stronger" theory.
    My son was immunized in his day , how many MORE would he have to have 30 years later (now)?
    Show me all these healthy people. Most of my peers are sick and effed up. Many here as well.
    A cabinet full of statins,steroids, anti biotics,blood pressure,synthetic thyroid,....these make one stronger?
    If I ran an insurance company , and my clients grazed for lunch at Costco, I would drop them ......that sound reasonable?
    Last edited by wizbang 13; 03-11-2019 at 05:39 AM.

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    Default Re: Vaccines are bad!

    Quote Originally Posted by BrianY View Post
    As for those small numbers of individuals who do contract the diseases in your scenario, I guess we should just consider them to be necessary sacrifices to the god of "individual rights", right?
    Just so, a common thread through US society. My FREEDOM trumps your families right to enjoying "The General Welfare".
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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