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Thread: Starting a new guide boat design.

  1. #1
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    Default Starting a new guide boat design.


  2. #2
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    Default Re: Starting a new guide boat design.

    It has been a long time since I last posted; still trying to remember how to post pictures. Nice to work in my shop when I am not shoveling snow (or skiing). Dimensions are accurate enough that I haven't had to use a strongback thus far.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Starting a new guide boat design.

    Nice. What are the dimensions? What method of planking?
    I was born on a wooden boat that I built myself.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Starting a new guide boat design.

    It should end up about 15'2" long and about 44-45" wide. The ribs have a 12" spacing. I haven't decided how I will plank it yet. I will start by making patterns for the four planked surfaces each side; then, depending on the shapes, I will either use solid wood or plywood. Maybe plywood for the wide garboard and then solid wood for the upper surfaces. It could even be done SOF, but that is not what I am thinking.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Starting a new guide boat design.

    Looks good Wayne. Looking forward to seeing your progress.

    Your little runabout is still going strong up here in Montana. Son uses it mostly to tour and fish Yellowtail Reservoir on the Bighorn. Always attracts attention.

    Hang in there - Gary

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Starting a new guide boat design.

    Thanks for the update, Gary. We have taken our newer runabout to Montana, Idaho, and Wyoming as well as lakes in Colorado. Last summer there wasn't much water in many of the reservoirs in this area. I just can't help myself from designing and building a new boat occasionally. A guide boat is much simpler and cheaper to build than a runabout. But, of course, I already have one guideboat; that one will probably go to my daughter and her husband.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Starting a new guide boat design.

    Sounds good Wayne. I've got a busy spring and summer coming. Building a mandolin for my son in Boulder and just got the molds up for a Wee Lassie II for my wife. Just need my body to cooperate.

    Looking forward to seeing your progress. Hang in there.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Starting a new guide boat design.

    Gary, Are you going to post photos of the Wee lassie II as you build? Have you done strip planking before? Will you cover it inside and out with epoxy and glass? This guide boat could also be done in strip, but I am afraid of how much sawdust would result from generating all the strips. I will make patterns of the sheathing between chines and then decide what to use.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Starting a new guide boat design.


  10. #10
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    Default Re: Starting a new guide boat design.

    Hey Wayne. That looks pretty. I am stripping the Wee Lassie II with WRC and yellow cedar. I don't typically post images while building cause it would take me twice as long to build the boat and I'm really slow. I have the molds set up and am working on bending and laminating the inner and outer stems. Haven't cut the strips yet. I bought a smaller diameter saw blade with a thinner kerf to minimize sawdust. Kinda waiting on nicer weather so I can rip with the doors open.

    Looking forward to seeing more. Heading down to Boulder next week for babysitting duties. The joys of retirement!

  11. #11
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    Glued lapstrake... The hunt for quality lumber is almost futile anymore, way less sawdust too!
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Starting a new guide boat design.

    Quote Originally Posted by DeniseO30 View Post
    Glued lapstrake... The hunt for quality lumber is almost futile anymore, way less sawdust too!
    I have given lapstrake some consideration, but am concerned about the constantly changing bevels. Not a technique I am familiar with. Perhaps I need to re-read some of my books on clinker construction.

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Starting a new guide boat design.

    Does this look like a shape that would adapt to lapstrake planking easily?

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by W Grabow View Post
    Does this look like a shape that would adapt to lapstrake planking easily?
    I'm far from the expert, but I think I did see photos of one I'm thinking selway Fisher. But it eludes me. Maybe you can find one on here. http://www.adkforum.com/photos/v/Eas...ht/?g2_page=12
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Starting a new guide boat design.

    I built Vivier's Beg-Meil glued lapstrake. My first build. The rolling bevel is only an issue on your first plank. After that, it seems pretty simple and straight forward. Don't let that keep you from lapstrake construction if that's what you want. You have much more skill than that requires.

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Starting a new guide boat design.

    Interesting seeing this one come together.
    You do very neat work.

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Starting a new guide boat design.

    Stitch & glue comes to mind also....
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Starting a new guide boat design.

    Okay, I re-read chapters on lapstrake/clinker and have refreshed my knowledge. My concern was with the butted planks at the plumb stems, but I now remember how it is done. It looks like an option, but most sources are now recommending glued-plywood lapstrake; which means you still end up with a plywood boat. Finding or creating thin planking material (4-6mm) will be a task; plywood does make that easier. Colorado is not exactly boating country, and materials always need to researched and found/ ordered. [We are having a blizzard today; had a 4-hour power outage this afternoon] Thankfully the heat has come back on so the epoxy I applied this morning to the third chine shouldl harden properly.
    I will be busy for the next two weeks; probably not much progress.

  19. #19
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    I love guide boats I've been to the adk museum I don't know why I've never built one! Out here the true connoisseurs of them spend huge amounts of money on them. I've seen lots of them in strip build but I like traditional building even though I probably won't be building anymore.

    this 15-foot was to be the poster child of my retirement business that never happened small craft restorations furniture and cabinetry.

    But hen it's time to start working on the Ducker again..

    Sent from my LG-M430 using Tapatalk
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Starting a new guide boat design.

    Quote Originally Posted by timo4352 View Post
    Interesting seeing this one come together.
    You do very neat work.
    Thanks, Timo. My natural tendency is rush things, but I am trying to slow down and be more deliberate. Your encouragement is appreciated. The next thing to work on will be the inwale. I need to strengthen the sheer edge before I turn the hull over. I am not one to spend too much time being traditional. What I like is the guide boat concept: a narrow deadrise bottom providing a slender waterline beam combined with ample flare to the topsides to allow efficient rowing. While initially tender, the hull has great ultimate stability and load-carrying capacity.

  21. #21
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    Default Re: Starting a new guide boat design.

    Quote Originally Posted by DeniseO30 View Post
    I love guide boats I've been to the adk museum I don't know why I've never built one! Out here the true connoisseurs of them spend huge amounts of money on them. I've seen lots of them in strip build but I like traditional building even though I probably won't be building anymore.
    While I don't build traditional; I certainly appreciate traditional boats, especially wood. Your 15' canoe looks like it absorbed many hours of effort; very nice result. We lived near Watertown, NY, twenty years ago, and I toured all the area boat museums, including at Blue Mountain Lake. The guide boat looked like a shape that would translate to developable surface design, and that is what I am doing.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by W Grabow View Post
    While I don't build traditional; I certainly appreciate traditional boats, especially wood. Your 15' canoe looks like it absorbed many hours of effort; very nice result. We lived near Watertown, NY, twenty years ago, and I toured all the area boat museums, including at Blue Mountain Lake. The guide boat looked like a shape that would translate to developable surface design, and that is what I am doing.
    The actual build I don't think took any longer than a strip canoe but developing the form... Took about three years of now and then building.

    Sent from my LG-M430 using Tapatalk
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

  23. #23
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    Default Re: Starting a new guide boat design.

    Making steady progress, but I am in no hurry. I wanted to strengthen the sheer before turning the hull over to start fairing and making patterns for the sheathing. Still one more stringer to install.

  24. #24
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    Almost looking like an SOF!

    Sent from my LG-M430 using Tapatalk
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

  25. #25
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    Default Re: Starting a new guide boat design.

    It is a definite option. With developable surfaces, several options can be practical.

  26. #26
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    Default Re: Starting a new guide boat design.

    How did you design the developable surfaces?

  27. #27
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    Default Re: Starting a new guide boat design.

    Quote Originally Posted by David Cockey View Post
    How did you design the developable surfaces?
    I start with an algebraic parabolic curve. Considering the size of boat I want, I came up with the curve Y=14.4-(72-X)squared/360. This describes a curve 72" long with a maximum offset of 14.4" which I divide into 12 increments (every 6"). For multiple chines, I project that curve using chosen X:Y:Z ratios to create the upward curve of the topsides. I keep the X:Y ratio constant because I want a plumb bow while I gradually increase the Z component. The ratios I used are the following: 6/2.4/0.8, 6/2.4/1.8, 6/2.4/3.0, 6/2.4/6. The X:Y ratio converts to a Y:X ratio of 0.4 and using the inverse tangent function gives a bow half angle of 21.8 degrees. From all this (and more) I produce a table of exact values using a TI-36 calculator; all the offsets for every frame, the stems, and the plank keel. Then it is just a matter of plotting full size and creating the parts.

    No conic projections were used in this case; just constant slopes in three dimensions. Constant slopes are by definition developable between their respective chines. Although, a conic projection could be integrated into such a design; I did it on a previous guide boat type hull.

    See developable-surface-boat-designs.blogspot.com for further entries, especially 29 July 2013 entry
    Last edited by W Grabow; 03-19-2019 at 09:04 PM. Reason: math error

  28. #28
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    Default Re: Starting a new guide boat design.

    Obviously, I omitted many details in my previous entry. What I listed was enough of a "mouth full" to first digest. For me, I had to mentally reflect to formulate the parabolic equation used in this case because the relation is so familiar that I had used mental shortcuts without previously actually writing the equation. Certain combinations of numbers also simplify the mathematics involved. There is a curve to the Z dimension used to create some rocker to the keel and stems. For this hull, the change in the Z dimension is 0.4(change in Y dimension), but that can vary for other desired shapes. I used a calculus integration of the equation to get the length of the curved sheer at each frame and overall. This was optional, but I used it because it made the components of the hull self-aligning; it eliminated having to build a strongback. The X/Y/Z ratio used for the projection from the base chine to the keel is 6/2.4/0.8. If you use that ratio, then plug in the offsets for the various stations (6, 12, 18, 24, .....) of the base chine and set Y=0, you can solve for the X and Z offsets to define the stems. Using the same ratio and offsets, if you set Z=1.2, you can calculate the X and Y offsets of the plank keel.

    For a runabout hull design, I use a combination of different projections linked by common ruling lines.

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