Page 1 of 7 12 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 35 of 225

Thread: Bothered and Bewildered…

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Dedham, MA
    Posts
    927

    Default Bothered and Bewildered…

    I'm trying to do further research on Captain Robert "Bob" Fish's smaller designs. I recently built a recreation of his 1852 "skimming dish" catboat "UNA". I've turned my attention to his 1853 centerboard sloop "Truant". This boat was also shipped to England and faired so well that the English changed their regatta rules to eliminate contests between keel and centerboard boats. From that time on, keel boats competed against other keel boats and centerboard boats raced other center boarders.

    Since there were no other centerboard boats, Truant was effectively eliminated from regatta participation.

    I have search for plans for Truant and came upon Chapelle's American Sailing Ships- page 323. My confusion is based upon the fact that Fish's "Truant" was a skimming dish sloop and not, as referenced in Chapelle's book as a Catboat.
    The original Truant was 22 feet long. The catboat mentioned is over 24 feet.



    The only reference I have for the sloop is below:


    A presentation model of the boat was auctioned off in 2008 by Christie's Auction House (see below)


    I am working with the current owner to make use of the model to generate rudimentary plans. No word yet from the owner.

    Thought?
    Last edited by G.Sherman; 02-28-2019 at 12:33 PM. Reason: typo

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Walney, near Cumbria UK
    Posts
    45,346

    Default Re: Bothered and Bewildered…

    I would say that the name is a coincidence. That presentation model looks less beamy than the plans.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

    The power of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web
    The weakness of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Central New Jersey
    Posts
    1,012

    Default Re: Bothered and Bewildered…

    Good luck with this project and keep us posted. Many will be interested in what you can discover and perhaps a "Truant" build, I hope!

    Steamboat

    I get by with the judicious use of serendipity.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Lindstrom, MN
    Posts
    2,657

    Default Re: Bothered and Bewildered…

    Google expert warning, I don't know anything about what I am about to quote:

    Was Truant a sandbagger? Truant and Una are listed under sandbaggers here. index for this: https://www.thenrg.org/the-journal.php model construction article, 34:33-43

    I think that the Chapelle's catboat lines were just a similar boat with the same name. I had to look several times before I was convinced that the lines below were different.

    Interesting bit of history about Truant: https://sailcraftblog.wordpress.com/...9/sailcraft-2/
    Some of the confusion might be due to the evolution of the word catboat. It says "A sloop-rigged catboat seems a contradiction in terms today, but they used words differently in the 1800s. Words like “catboat” or “cutter”, which we used to describe a type of rig, were then used as the label for a general type of hull." It sounds like Truant was a planing hull, which would make it one of the first(?) mentioned. Post #304 Chris249 Re: History of the planing dinghy "The earliest record that sounds like a modern description of planing was the Oxford Canoe yawls of (I think) 1892"

    There is a lines drawing of Truant here: https://sailcraftblog.wordpress.com/...ailcraft-pt-3/
    Truant’s lines, as they appear in Dixon Kemp. The reverse stem was probably a rating dodge; as Francis Herreshoff wrote in “The Golden Age of Yachting”, the early New York catboats “were initially measured or rated by length on deck, but later, because some had adopted a ram bow, the mean of the length on deck and the length of waterline was adopted.”

    These lines are also found here.

    There is some information about a boat named Truant here: https://research.mysticseaport.org/coll/coll091/ "Included is a series of specifications for approximately 500 boats which are arranged alphabetically by the boat’s name."

    UNA:
    “The Cowes people regarded the Una as a little too marvellous to be real” wrote the journalist, author and designer Dixon Kemp. “To see the Una dodging about on a wind and off a wind, round the stern of this craft, across the bows of that one, and generally weaving about between boats where there did not look to be room enough for an eel to wriggle, astonished the Cowes people, who had never seen anything more handy under canvas than a waterman’s skiff with three sails, or an Itchen boat with two, or more unhandy than a boat with one sail – the dipping lug; but the Una with her one sail showed such speed, and was so handy, that in less than a year there was a whole fleet of Unas at Cowes, and about the Solent.”[4]
    Picture of rig: https://archive.org/details/manualof...0kemp/page/272 on p. 271 it says the crew was accused of having lead shot in their pockets.
    truant rig.jpg
    The lines below seem to have the mast too far forward:

    There are five versions of Dixon here: https://archive.org/search.php?query...Boat%20Sailing Maybe the Truant lines are in another version. There were at least 9 editions.
    Last edited by MN Dave; 02-28-2019 at 04:44 PM.
    Management is the art of counting beans. Leadership is the art of making every being count. --Joe Finch

  5. #5
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Conway, MA
    Posts
    5,569

    Default Re: Bothered and Bewildered…

    But if the painting and model are the boat in question, then go for it. The Chapelle plan is rigged differently at least. LWL 24'1.5" with 10'10" beam is a bit narrow for a typical Cape catboat but not for a NY skimming dish. Shifting the partners aft and adding a bowsprit is not that unusual, shrinking the cockpit likewise especially for the move from the US to England.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Walney, near Cumbria UK
    Posts
    45,346

    Default Re: Bothered and Bewildered…

    Quote Originally Posted by MN Dave View Post
    Google expert warning, I don't know anything about what I am about to quote:

    Was Truant a sandbagger? Truant and Una are listed under sandbaggers here. index for this: https://www.thenrg.org/the-journal.php model construction article, 34:33-43
    No. Late in 2015, the auction house Christies was advertising the builder’s presentation model for Truant, apparently the genuine item. This low-quality image from the catalogue shows her deep skeg aft, her extensive decks, and her narrow beam compared to the sandbaggers of two decades later. From https://sailcraftblog.wordpress.com/...9/sailcraft-2/

    It sounds like Truant was a planing hull, which would make it one of the first(?) mentioned.
    No, not with that shaped stern.
    The “strange-looking little foreigner…has her mast stepped in her very eyes- has a long easy entrance – full withal, and not a hollow line about her – carries her body all aft
    again from https://sailcraftblog.wordpress.com/...9/sailcraft-2/ That describes a boat with very curved buttocks in the stern quarters, which will not plane.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

    The power of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web
    The weakness of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Dedham, MA
    Posts
    927

    Default Re: Bothered and Bewildered…

    UNA and Truant are "skimming dish" boats. They were an idea that originated in the 1850s, prior to an real understanding of hydrodynamics. The idea being a shallow drafted boat has less wetted surface and would be faster. Each boat used lead as ballast to provide stability. Sand baggers were being used during this period as well.

    Truant was a sloop rigged centerboard boat.

    UNA was a cat-rigged boat, later identified in England as an una-rigged centerboard boat.

    I think the Chapelle version is misidentified. All the literature I've located indicates that the presentation model is the correct form for the boat.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Walney, near Cumbria UK
    Posts
    45,346

    Default Re: Bothered and Bewildered…

    MN Dave's link https://sailcraftblog.wordpress.com/...9/sailcraft-2/ provides lots of dimensions and guidance on form from which a rough lines plan could be worked up.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

    The power of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web
    The weakness of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    25,993

    Default Re: Bothered and Bewildered…

    Quote Originally Posted by MN Dave View Post
    Google expert warning, I don't know anything about what I am about to quote:

    Was Truant a sandbagger? Truant and Una are listed under sandbaggers here. index for this: https://www.thenrg.org/the-journal.php model construction article, 34:33-43

    I think that the Chapelle's catboat lines were just a similar boat with the same name. I had to look several times before I was convinced that the lines below were different.

    Interesting bit of history about Truant: https://sailcraftblog.wordpress.com/...9/sailcraft-2/
    Some of the confusion might be due to the evolution of the word catboat. It says "A sloop-rigged catboat seems a contradiction in terms today, but they used words differently in the 1800s. Words like “catboat” or “cutter”, which we used to describe a type of rig, were then used as the label for a general type of hull." It sounds like Truant was a planing hull, which would make it one of the first(?) mentioned. Post #304 Chris249 Re: History of the planing dinghy "The earliest record that sounds like a modern description of planing was the Oxford Canoe yawls of (I think) 1892"

    There is a lines drawing of Truant here: https://sailcraftblog.wordpress.com/...ailcraft-pt-3/


    These lines are also found here.

    There is some information about a boat named Truant here: https://research.mysticseaport.org/coll/coll091/ "Included is a series of specifications for approximately 500 boats which are arranged alphabetically by the boat’s name."

    UNA:

    Picture of rig: https://archive.org/details/manualof...0kemp/page/272 on p. 271 it says the crew was accused of having lead shot in their pockets.
    truant rig.jpg
    The lines below seem to have the mast too far forward:

    There are five versions of Dixon here: https://archive.org/search.php?query...Boat%20Sailing Maybe the Truant lines are in another version. There were at least 9 editions.
    I've got Dixon Kemp's book, and I can tell you for certain, those aren't the lines for Truant. The lines are for Una, Fish's 16' catboat, and the deck layout is for an 1870 British 'Una boat.'

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    25,993

    Default Re: Bothered and Bewildered…

    I did some mousing around in Delphtship when I was trying to understand the sandbagger type, and why they sailed the way they did. Here's a version of the boat I drew, modified to the proportions of Truant (22' length, about a 3/1 beam/length ratio.)

    Truant (reconstruction) 2-28-2019 3-36-13 PM 1334x729.bmp.jpg

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Lindstrom, MN
    Posts
    2,657

    Default Re: Bothered and Bewildered…

    Quote Originally Posted by johnw View Post
    I've got Dixon Kemp's book, and I can tell you for certain, those aren't the lines for Truant. The lines are for Una, Fish's 16' catboat, and the deck layout is for an 1870 British 'Una boat.'
    I found 5 editions of Dixon online. The picture I posted is from the ninth edition. The drawings and pictures are the same in all of the editions, but on different pages and different figure numbers.
    This is the drawing of the Una from Dixon. https://archive.org/details/amanualy...goog/page/n344
    una.JPG
    It is similar to the drawing below listed as Truant in https://sailcraftblog.wordpress.com/...9/sailcraft-2/, but I don't know if it is correct:
    EDIT THIS IS ANOTHER DRAWING OF UNA NOT TRUANT.
    Link to 'original' drawing MotorBoating Feb 1945


    The photograph in Post #1 looks like there are 5 guys lined up in the cockpit and 21 ties for reefing the sail. Seems like a lot for a 21 ft. boat.

    OK, Nick, not a sandbagger, but has been called a sandbagger type and is a direct ancestor.
    Back to 1854: Robert Fish's Truant and Una were not sandbaggers, but the racing sandbaggers did evolve out of boats like that.
    http://www.openboat.com.au/sandbagge...8-footers.html this link also has a copy of the picture of the builder's model. http://www.openboat.com.au/uploads/8...der_3_orig.jpg "Original builder's model of Truant, 1853, 2 1/2-3 tons, Robert Fish of New Jersey. "
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by MN Dave; 03-04-2019 at 12:01 PM. Reason: correction
    Management is the art of counting beans. Leadership is the art of making every being count. --Joe Finch

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Walney, near Cumbria UK
    Posts
    45,346

    Default Re: Bothered and Bewildered…

    Quote Originally Posted by johnw View Post
    I did some mousing around in Delphtship when I was trying to understand the sandbagger type, and why they sailed the way they did. Here's a version of the boat I drew, modified to the proportions of Truant (22' length, about a 3/1 beam/length ratio.)

    Truant (reconstruction) 2-28-2019 3-36-13 PM 1334x729.bmp.jpg
    There is more info in MN Dave's link that could be incorporated in those lines.
    The “strange-looking little foreigner…has her mast stepped in her very eyes- has a long easy entrance – full withal, and not a hollow line about hercarries her body all aft – does not draw much more water than about a foot in ballast trim – sails with a small centre board” noted another fascinated reporter. “She is about twenty feet over all, and seven feet beam.”
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

    The power of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web
    The weakness of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Dedham, MA
    Posts
    927

    Default Re: Bothered and Bewildered…

    For those who haven't seen the new UNA (from Kemp's drawings). Here she is:






  14. #14
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Dedham, MA
    Posts
    927

    Default Re: Bothered and Bewildered…

    Quote Originally Posted by johnw View Post
    I did some mousing around in Delphtship when I was trying to understand the sandbagger type, and why they sailed the way they did. Here's a version of the boat I drew, modified to the proportions of Truant (22' length, about a 3/1 beam/length ratio.)

    Truant (reconstruction) 2-28-2019 3-36-13 PM 1334x729.bmp.jpg
    What's this look like if converted to something akin to the line drawing set used for UNA? A set of scales might be nice , too.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Lindstrom, MN
    Posts
    2,657

    Default Re: Bothered and Bewildered…

    The 'Truant' plan that I posted scales to 20 x 8 feet. If Truant had a 7 foot beam, either the figure was distorted when published or it isn't the same boat.
    Management is the art of counting beans. Leadership is the art of making every being count. --Joe Finch

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Dedham, MA
    Posts
    927

    Default Re: Bothered and Bewildered…

    Quote Originally Posted by MN Dave View Post
    The 'Truant' plan that I posted scales to 20 x 8 feet. If Truant had a 7 foot beam, either the figure was distorted when published or it isn't the same boat.
    Printed references to Truant that I've seen list the following:
    LOA: 22'
    LWL: 20'- 6"
    Draught: 1-2'
    Beam- over 7'

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    25,993

    Default Re: Bothered and Bewildered…

    Quote Originally Posted by G.Sherman View Post
    What's this look like if converted to something akin to the line drawing set used for UNA? A set of scales might be nice , too.
    Truant lines drawing 3-1-2019 1-28-27 PM 1582x817.bmp.jpg

    Stations are on 2' centers, buttocks and waterlines are .5 ft. apart.

    I did a little messing with it to give it firmer bilges, more appropriate to a vessel preceding the sandbagger era, and move the center of buoyancy forward a bit. Now it's a reasonably stable hull capable of the reported performance. Here's the hydrostatics report:

    Truant hyrdostatics report 3-1-2019 1-36-33 PM 742x875.bmp.jpg

    I'm working in the free version of Delftship. To generate offsets, I'd have to buy the software.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Walney, near Cumbria UK
    Posts
    45,346

    Default Re: Bothered and Bewildered…

    Quote Originally Posted by johnw View Post
    Truant lines drawing 3-1-2019 1-28-27 PM 1582x817.bmp.jpg

    Stations are on 2' centers, buttocks and waterlines are .5 ft. apart.

    I did a little messing with it to give it firmer bilges, more appropriate to a vessel preceding the sandbagger era, and move the center of buoyancy forward a bit. Now it's a reasonably stable hull capable of the reported performance. Here's the hydrostatics report:

    Truant hyrdostatics report 3-1-2019 1-36-33 PM 742x875.bmp.jpg

    I'm working in the free version of Delftship. To generate offsets, I'd have to buy the software.
    Needs tweaking.
    The “strange-looking little foreigner…has her mast stepped in her very eyes- has a long easy entrance – full withal, and not a hollow line about hercarries her body all aft – does not draw much more water than about a foot in ballast trim – sails with a small centre board” noted another fascinated reporter. “She is about twenty feet over all, and seven feet beam.”
    You need to fill out the hollow waterlines in the bow and move the CoB aft to shorten the run.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

    The power of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web
    The weakness of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    25,993

    Default Re: Bothered and Bewildered…

    Quote Originally Posted by MN Dave View Post
    I found 5 editions of Dixon online. The picture I posted is from the ninth edition. The drawings and pictures are the same in all of the editions, but on different pages and different figure numbers.
    This is the drawing of the Una from Dixon. https://archive.org/details/amanualy...goog/page/n344
    una.JPG
    It is similar to the drawing below listed as Truant in https://sailcraftblog.wordpress.com/...9/sailcraft-2/, but I don't know if it is correct:

    The photograph in Post #1 looks like there are 5 guys lined up in the cockpit and 21 ties for reefing the sail. Seems like a lot for a 21 ft. boat.

    OK, Nick, not a sandbagger, but has been called a sandbagger type and is a direct ancestor. http://www.openboat.com.au/sandbagge...8-footers.html this link also has a copy of the picture of the builder's model. http://www.openboat.com.au/uploads/8...der_3_orig.jpg "Original builder's model of Truant, 1853, 2 1/2-3 tons, Robert Fish of New Jersey. "
    The picture Chris used is exactly how the lines of Una were presented in Traditions and Memories of American Yachting. Chis is mistaken. There are no recorded lines of Truant that I know of.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Dedham, MA
    Posts
    927

    Default Re: Bothered and Bewildered…

    Wow.... I have a Mac and that software is not compatible. I may be able to redraw this and add mast location, coaming location and a rudder. This will help. A scale model is a strong possibility. Thanks John.

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    25,993

    Default Re: Bothered and Bewildered…

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    Needs tweaking.
    You need to fill out the hollow waterlines in the bow and move the CoB aft to shorten the run.
    Given that the boat in the presentation model has a wineglass stern, I think we can take the line about no hollows with a grain of salt. Note that the hollow waterlines are achieved with no hollow in the sections. I can certainly try what you suggest, but I suspect that Fish didn't change his model all that much between Una and Truant, just made it longer. I think the deeper English types had some hollow in the sections in the bow.

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Walney, near Cumbria UK
    Posts
    45,346

    Default Re: Bothered and Bewildered…

    Quote Originally Posted by johnw View Post
    Given that the boat in the presentation model has a wineglass stern, I think we can take the line about no hollows with a grain of salt. Note that the hollow waterlines are achieved with no hollow in the sections. I can certainly try what you suggest, but I suspect that Fish didn't change his model all that much between Una and Truant, just made it longer. I think the deeper English types had some hollow in the sections in the bow.
    Well you either trust the yachting journalist to know what he is talking about or you do not.
    I can assure you that hollow in the bows is obvious and easily recognized. It is also possible to produce a wineglass transom without hollow in either waterlines or buttocks aft.
    There is no reason to assume that deeper forms had hollow in the bow. Those with "V" sections may have but not "U" sections. If the form was designed by eye and a half model there is no driver to incorporate hollow lines. They will occur when you tweak a form to move the CoB aft without increasing the Block Coefficient, which requires a lot of analysis and maths to do a Lackenby Transformation.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

    The power of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web
    The weakness of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web.

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    BC Coast
    Posts
    3,965

    Default Re: Bothered and Bewildered…

    When I was a kid we had an Ackroyd sailing cat boat dinghy. The lines were reasonably similar to the boats shown. My strongest memory is of the old boat trying to bury its bow when running downwind, With the weight of the solid mast and the force on the sail. Certainly boats like these are visually interesting....

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    25,993

    Default Re: Bothered and Bewildered…

    Anyhow, here's a version with a shallower bow and the hollow waterlines pretty much eliminated. The center of buoyancy is fairly far aft.

    Attachment 32168

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Walney, near Cumbria UK
    Posts
    45,346

    Default Re: Bothered and Bewildered…

    Quote Originally Posted by johnw View Post
    Anyhow, here's a version with a shallower bow and the hollow waterlines pretty much eliminated. The center of buoyancy is fairly far aft.

    Attachment 32168
    Lines do not show. "Invalid attachment"
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

    The power of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web
    The weakness of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web.

  26. #26
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    25,993

    Default Re: Bothered and Bewildered…

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    Well you either trust the yachting journalist to know what he is talking about or you do not.
    I can assure you that hollow in the bows is obvious and easily recognized. It is also possible to produce a wineglass transom without hollow in either waterlines or buttocks aft.
    There is no reason to assume that deeper forms had hollow in the bow. Those with "V" sections may have but not "U" sections. If the form was designed by eye and a half model there is no driver to incorporate hollow lines. They will occur when you tweak a form to move the CoB aft without increasing the Block Coefficient, which requires a lot of analysis and maths to do a Lackenby Transformation.
    I like the shallower bow and U shaped sections better myself, although I'm not sure they are what Fish would have designed. There were plenty of boats designed with lift models that had hollow waterlines, so I don't think that's a relevant factor. As a former journalist myself, I'm painfully aware of the limitations of journalists. Deftship does the Lackenby transformations automatically. What a brave new world which has such software in it.

  27. #27
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    25,993

  28. #28
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Walney, near Cumbria UK
    Posts
    45,346

    Default Re: Bothered and Bewildered…

    Quote Originally Posted by johnw View Post


    Can you see it here?
    Frayed knot.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

    The power of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web
    The weakness of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web.

  29. #29
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    25,993

  30. #30
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Walney, near Cumbria UK
    Posts
    45,346

    Default Re: Bothered and Bewildered…

    Quote Originally Posted by johnw View Post
    Attachment 32169
    I hope you can see this.
    Sorry, no.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

    The power of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web
    The weakness of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web.

  31. #31
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    25,993

  32. #32
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Walney, near Cumbria UK
    Posts
    45,346

    Default Re: Bothered and Bewildered…

    What format is it? You are only allowed jpg, jpeg or png. Delftship can export in a verboten format.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

    The power of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web
    The weakness of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web.

  33. #33
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    25,993

    Default Re: Bothered and Bewildered…

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    What format is it? You are only allowed jpg, jpeg or png. Delftship can export in a verboten format.
    It's a screen shot, done as a jpeg.



    Truant displacement curve 3-1-2019 3-21-06 PM 1680x989.bmp.jpg
    Last edited by johnw; 03-01-2019 at 06:51 PM.

  34. #34
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Location
    Queen City, USA
    Posts
    487

    Default Re: Bothered and Bewildered…

    Quote Originally Posted by johnw View Post
    Can anyone else on the thread see those pix?
    Nope.
    God is great, beer is good and people are crazy.

    Billy Currington

  35. #35
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Walney, near Cumbria UK
    Posts
    45,346

    Default Re: Bothered and Bewildered…

    Quote Originally Posted by johnw View Post
    It's a screen shot, done as a jpeg.
    Try a minor edit and save as a jpg or something.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

    The power of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web
    The weakness of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •