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Thread: Allen Ferrel "Ancient One"(again)

  1. #1
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    Default Allen Ferrel "Ancient One"(again)

    I know this boat has popped up here before but my WBF search skills don't seem to be up to the task of finding the thread.

    Here is the CListing: https://seattle.craigslist.org/kit/b...818001246.html

    It's one of those boats that never sells, between the limited market for older wood boats and the junk rig this one is having trouble finding the right new caretaker. I think she's a real beauty from the keel to the top of the cabin. Can't quite get past the junk rig...a bit too funky for me. While the lovely Ms. Stromborg has unequivocally stated I need to build us a house before we contemplate another boat I can't help but ponder the possibilities of this Ancient One.

    I think I'd have to fill in 6 of the 8 cannonball holes in the topsides, she's 1 1/2" strip planked so that would not be too hard. The bigger question is what to do about the junk rig. I'd have to crunch numbers to see about the mast height, but I think you might be able to leave the mainmast where it is, ditch the forward one and re-rig as a nice gaff cutter. Am I completely off my rocker? A sweet boat at a sweet price point, so tempting!
    Steve

    Boats, like whiskey, are all good.
    R.D Culler

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Allen Ferrel "Ancient One"(again)

    Quote Originally Posted by stromborg View Post
    I'd have to crunch numbers to see about the mast height, but I think you might be able to leave the mainmast where it is, ditch the forward one and re-rig as a nice gaff cutter. Am I completely off my rocker? A sweet boat at a sweet price point, so tempting!
    There are quite a few Colin Archer types about. Overlay pictures/drawings of some examples on her picture 'till you find one with the mast in the same(ish) place and the same profile. That will be a starter for 10. Then go to Skeene's for the fine details.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  3. #3
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    Default Re: Allen Ferrel "Ancient One"(again)

    Off your rocker, since you asked. The junk rig is arguably the best rig. And I am a gaff cutter traditionalist! Buy it, try it, and after a season or two decide if you want to change it.

    Its the only rig you can reef your 300 sq ft main without spilling the coffee in your hand all while going downwind. Its as weatherly as a gaff sail. Jibing is safe and easy because the sail is balanced. It can be feathered straight out in front to effectively depower on any point of sail. There is a lot to be said for a proper junk rig with no shrouds or jibs.

    Its a great boat with a local history. You could live on it while you build your house!

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Allen Ferrel "Ancient One"(again)

    I think that is true of most boats, houses, etc. Try it before you change it.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Allen Ferrel "Ancient One"(again)

    The original Ocean Birds was rigged as a gaff rigged cutter. If you, or anyone was to adopt this really admirable vessel you might consider going back to the old rig. I'll note that Allen Farrell became a huge fan of the 'junk sail' rig, using it on his last boat..."China Cloud"

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Allen Ferrel "Ancient One"(again)

    I see she needs new sails. That may be a tipping point for some, but the junk sail is the only sail that is properly cut flat. Therefore it is the easiest sail for an ameteur to build the correct shape into.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Allen Ferrel "Ancient One"(again)

    WX (Gary PIck) ia our resident junk rig Expert, ask him.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Allen Ferrel "Ancient One"(again)

    Quote Originally Posted by J.Madison View Post
    I see she needs new sails. That may be a tipping point for some, but the junk sail is the only sail that is properly cut flat. Therefore it is the easiest sail for an ameteur to build the correct shape into.
    I have several friends that have changed over from flat cut sails to shaped panels to get better performance, on every point of sail. I'd suggest anyone interested should hang out online with the Junk Rig association. There are some really knowledgeable folks there.
    I have sailed with the junk rig a little, but most of the folks I know that have embraced it, would not change back to conventional western sails.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Allen Ferrel "Ancient One"(again)

    Why don't we see more western boats with the junk rig?

    Jeff

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Allen Ferrel "Ancient One"(again)

    Quote Originally Posted by jpatrick View Post
    Why don't we see more western boats with the junk rig?

    Jeff
    Because they are not so hot upwind. For some reason, many think that beating into big waves is character building. While real gentlemen don't do it... Junk rigs are a bit like gaffers. Very good at most points of sailing, just not suitable for round the cans racing. Read Annie Hill's book about Badger for real cruising.

    Just looked at the listing. At that price, if one likes wood, it is a steal.
    Last edited by Andrew2; 02-16-2019 at 01:39 PM.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Allen Ferrel "Ancient One"(again)

    ___________________________________
    Tad
    cogge ketch Blackfish
    cat ketch Ratty
    http://www.tadroberts.ca
    http://blog.tadroberts.ca/
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  12. #12
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    Default Re: Allen Ferrel "Ancient One"(again)

    Quote Originally Posted by jpatrick View Post
    Why don't we see more western boats with the junk rig?

    Jeff
    Habit ? Why are all refrigerators white?
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Allen Ferrel "Ancient One"(again)


    Now that's a proper boat!

    The view out the submerged portlights must have been interesting, or where they actually deadlights so you didn't have to wonder if you forgot to close them?
    Steve

    Boats, like whiskey, are all good.
    R.D Culler

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Allen Ferrel "Ancient One"(again)

    I would definately try it with the junk rig for a season or two, and if you wanted to replace it with gaff, i would put the entire junk rig aside somewhere as you might discover you want it back. Even if you hand splice your own wire/dyneema rigging, there is still a lot of it to be paid for that the junk just does not have. Rigging is sadly one of the most neglected items on many boats, and on that score, its surprising the junk is not more popular as a conversion.

    Tad always comes up with good photos! Is that a pea-pod in tow?

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Allen Ferrel "Ancient One"(again)

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterSibley View Post
    Habit ? Why are all refrigerators white?
    Marketing. White is neutral, you can't dislike white as you could other colours.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

    The power of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web
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  16. #16
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    Default Re: Allen Ferrel "Ancient One"(again)

    Hi there I know this is a long shot but anyone has the infos of ancient one's owner. I'm really interested in the boat and would like to know if it's still available.

    Thanks a lot

    my email is mauritonie2@gmail.com

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Allen Ferrel "Ancient One"(again)

    Allan Farrell switched to junk rig yes, and he made a lotta boats, but he did very little ocean sailing I believe.

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Allen Ferrel "Ancient One"(again)

    Allan and Sherry made at least on extended trip to the South Pacific, back in the 50's I believe. They had enough of a reputation to have specific mention in an article in one of the yachting Magazines ( Rudder, I think) by Peter Pye (Moonraker of Fowey). when he in BC, circa 1955-1957

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Allen Ferrel "Ancient One"(again)

    Once you round Cape Flattery headed south, you're ocean sailing like it or not. The Farrell's did this a number of times in various boats all designed and built by themselves, they never did any ocean sailing in China Cloud. They sailed south first in Wind Song, a 36' double-ended staysail schooner. In 1951 with son Keray they sailed to Honolulu and then on to Fiji where they sold the boat (later wrecked in a hurricane) in '52. This set the pattern for their lives, build a boat, set sail south, wonder what they were doing and return to BC.

    On returning to BC in '52 they built the little cutter Ocean Bird, and then the big 44' brigantine Ocean Girl, launched in 1959. With Ocean Girl they headed south in August 1960, got to Santa Barbara and turned back north, to spend the winter at anchor home in BC. In the fall of '61 they again headed south, spending 2 months in San Diego before moving on to Mexico. In '62 they sailed Ocean Girl west from Mazatlan to Hawaii, then north to home.

    The 39' ketch (now schooner) Native Girl was built and launched in the spring of '65, when Ocean Girl was sold. In Native Girl they sailed again to Hawaii, crossing in 26 days, and arriving at the end of September 1968. In the spring of '69 they sailed north to home, arriving back in BC in June. There followed a decade in which Native Girl was sold, August Moon was built, and Native Girl was bought back and converted to a schooner. In '78 they headed south again to winter in Mazatlan, crossing west to Hawaii on their last ocean passage in '79. A delivery crew brought Native Girl home from Hawaii and China Cloud was begun soon after. China Cloud was a retirement boat, never intended for ocean voyaging as all the others (except August Moon) had been.
    Last edited by TR; 06-08-2019 at 09:46 AM.
    ___________________________________
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    cogge ketch Blackfish
    cat ketch Ratty
    http://www.tadroberts.ca
    http://blog.tadroberts.ca/
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  20. #20
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    Default Re: Allen Ferrel "Ancient One"(again)

    I stand corrected ! Thanks Tad.
    That's a good amount of pounding salt, especially in those days.
    bruce

  21. #21
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    Default Re: Allen Ferrel "Ancient One"(again)

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterSibley View Post
    Habit ? Why are all refrigerators white?
    Because we tried avocado green once, and like most things from the '70s, it's better off forgotten.
    Heute ist so ein schöne Tag...

  22. #22
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    Default Re: Allen Ferrel "Ancient One"(again)

    Gave me a jolt, seeing Peter's sig.

    Fair winds.

    I'm a sucker for double enders……………..

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