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Thread: Some Good News on the Civil Liberties Front

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    Default Some Good News on the Civil Liberties Front

    SD Governor Kristi Noem (R) recently signed Senate Bill 47 which removes permit requirements for carrying concealed firearms in South Dakota. Beginning July 1, 2019, a citizen no longer needs the "permission" of state government to exercise and enjoy their 2nd Amendment right.

    Oklahoma Governor Kevin Stitt (R) has indicated that he too will sign similar legislation pending in that state. His doing so will make 15 states where all that is needed to fully exercise one's gun rights is the 2nd Amendment itself.

    Power to the People!



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    Default Re: Some Good News on the Civil Liberties Front

    shall not be infringed, bitches
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    Default Re: Some Good News on the Civil Liberties Front

    not recommended for non whites. but whatevs. power to the white people.

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    Default Re: Some Good News on the Civil Liberties Front

    That's what we need: more fat, frightened white posers. Yeah!

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    Default Re: Some Good News on the Civil Liberties Front

    Quote Originally Posted by Sky Blue View Post
    SD Governor Kristi Noem (R) recently signed Senate Bill 47 which removes permit requirements for carrying concealed firearms in South Dakota. Beginning July 1, 2019, a citizen no longer needs the "permission" of state government to exercise and enjoy their 2nd Amendment right.

    Oklahoma Governor Kevin Stitt (R) has indicated that he too will sign similar legislation pending in that state. His doing so will make 15 states where all that is needed to fully exercise one's gun rights is the 2nd Amendment itself.

    Power to the People!


    does this bill include more spending for psychiatric and mental health care too?

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    Default Re: Some Good News on the Civil Liberties Front

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Hoppe View Post
    does this bill include more spending for psychiatric and mental health care too?
    Irrelevant.


    As gun violence reaches record highs in the US, the trigger finger of blame twitches for easy explanations.
    Mental illness is never far from the conversation in spite of a want of evidence. And it's not for lack of looking, either.
    Now, another new study not only once again shows there's zero correlation between mental illness and shootings, but it also finds far better predictors for gun violence that are shockingly mundane.
    Researchers from the University of Texas Medical Branch (UTMB) weighed in on a debate that has divided not just America, but much of the world.
    Their conclusion isn't surprising, but is worth repeating. Having a mental health diagnosis – whether it's a mood disorder, PTSD, borderline personality disorder, or schizophrenia – doesn't make you more likely to threaten somebody with a gun.
    READ MORE AT.....
    Yet Another Study Shows Why We Really Need to Stop Blaming Mental Illness For Gun Violence (LINK)


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    Quote Originally Posted by sharpiefan View Post
    That is such bullsh!t. You should be embarrassed by putting it up.

    Most mass shooters are undergoing medical treatment for depression or mental illness. Most who do murder are under the influence of drugs and alcohol. No rational person would shoot to kill another.

    If you looked at nearly every mass shooter profile and medical records, you will find them under the influence of some kind of uptake inhibitor prescribed by a doctor. Proper mental health would eliminate much of those terrible events. Doctors over precribe the drugs which have adverse effects with very little follow up beyond the cript.

    Every single person knows gun don't kill people, people kill people when they are emotionally unbalanced mostly do to drug and alcohol influences. Deal with the influence and mental state and then problem is nearly solved.
    Last edited by Ted Hoppe; 02-10-2019 at 01:24 PM.
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    Default Re: Some Good News on the Civil Liberties Front

    More from Sharpiefan’s link:

    (mental illness)...doesn't make you more likely to threaten somebody with a gun.What does? Simply knowing you have access to a weapon.

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    Default Re: Some Good News on the Civil Liberties Front

    “Suspects who allegedly entered a Brevard County, Florida, home Thursday and pointed a gun at woman’s head were shot dead by the woman’s son.

    News 6 reported that 20-year-old Alvin Smalls and 18-year-old Amir Rashad Lynn allegedly broke into the home at a time when the mother’s son was in the house asleep. The son awoke to strange sounds, only to discover the suspects allegedly had his mother at gunpoint.

    The son shot the suspects. Smalls died in the home and Lynn fled, only to die later at a hospital.


    The son called 911 after shooting the suspects:



    WESH 2 reported that the Brevard County Sheriff’s Office believed the shooting was an issue of self-defense. Brevard County Sheriff’s spokesman Tod Goodyear said, “Right now it appears it is a case of them defending themselves in the home.”

    An investigation into the incident is ongoing.”

    https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2...get-shot-dead/
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    Default Re: Some Good News on the Civil Liberties Front

    Why is this moron wearing a six shooter over a kilt?

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    Default Re: Some Good News on the Civil Liberties Front

    Quote Originally Posted by Todd Bradshaw View Post
    Why is this moron wearing a six shooter over a kilt?
    Kinda answered your own question, didn’t you?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Todd Bradshaw View Post
    Why is this moron wearing a six shooter over a kilt?
    He's deathly afraid someone will notice that what's under the kilt is smaller caliber?

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    Default Re: Some Good News on the Civil Liberties Front

    He's a cross-drawing left hander mixing his cultures. The photo does not show the sgian-dubh in his sock.
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    Default Re: Some Good News on the Civil Liberties Front

    Oh. Wait. The OP might be a selfie.

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    Default Re: Some Good News on the Civil Liberties Front

    Quote Originally Posted by Todd Bradshaw View Post
    Why is this moron wearing a six shooter over a kilt?
    “Is that a sporran you’re packin’ or are you just happy to see me?”

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    Default Re: Some Good News on the Civil Liberties Front

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Hoppe View Post
    That is such bullsh!t. You should be embarrassed by putting it up.

    Most mass shooters are undergoing medical treatment for depression or mental illness. Most who do murder are under the influence of drugs and alcohol. No rational person would shoot to kill another.

    If you looked at nearly every mass shooter profile and medical records, you will find them under the influence of some kind of uptake inhibitor prescribed by a doctor. Proper mental health would eliminate much of those terrible events. Doctors over precribe the drugs which have adverse effects with very little follow up beyond the cript.

    Every single person knows gun don't kill people, people kill people when they are emotionally unbalanced mostly do to drug and alcohol influences. Deal with the influence and mental state and then problem is nearly solved.
    you seemingly feel you have a dog in this fight. I’m familiar with some of the CDC numbers from years back before Republicans shut down funding for gun related violence- and that info didn’t support your position. Whatcha got for support besides your ‘gut’?
    There's a lot of things they didn't tell me when I signed on with this outfit....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Todd Bradshaw View Post
    Why is this moron wearing a six shooter over a kilt?
    Probably because his state allows open carry, but not concealed carry. Who's the "moron?"

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    Quote Originally Posted by George Jung View Post
    you seemingly feel you have a dog in this fight. I’m familiar with some of the CDC numbers from years back before Republicans shut down funding for gun related violence- and that info didn’t support your position. Whatcha got for support besides your ‘gut’?
    Before the late nineteen eighties, mass shootings and acts of senseless violence were relatively unheard of. Prozac, the most well known SSRI (selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor) antidepressant, was not yet on the market. When Prozac did arrive, it was marketed as a panacea for depression which resulted in huge profits for its manufacturer Eli Lilly. Of course other drug companies had to create their own cash cow and followed suit by marketing their own SSRI antidepressants.

    Subsequently, mass shootings and other violent incidents started to be reported. More often than not, the common denominator was that the shooters were on an antidepressant, or withdrawing from one. This is not about an isolated incident or two but numerous shootings. The question is, during the past twenty years is the use of antidepressants here a coincidence or a causation?
    There have been too many mass shootings for it just to be a coincidence. Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold killed twelve students and a teacher at Columbine High School. Eric was on Luvox, an antidepressant. The Virginia Tech shooter killed thirty-two people and he was on an antidepressant. While withdrawing from Prozac, Kip Kinkel murdered his mother and stepmother. He then shot twenty-two classmates and killed two. Jason Hoffman wounded five at his high school while he was on Effexor, also an antidepressant. James Holmes opened fire in a Colorado movie theater and killed twelve people and wounded fifty-eight. He was under the care of a psychiatrist but no information has been released as to what drug he must have been on.
    Psychiatrists generally will tell you that these people were mentally ill and they weren’t treated in time or didn’t get enough help to prevent the tragedy. However, Dr. Peter Breggin, who is a psychiatrist, stated that depression rarely leads to violence and that it’s only since the SSRI’s came on the market that such mass shootings have taken place. In a study of thirty-one drugs that are disproportionately linked to reports of violence toward others, five of the top ten are antidepressants. These are Prozac, Paxil, Luvox, Effexor and Pristiq. Two other drugs that are for treating ADHD are also in the top ten which means these are being given to children who could then become violent. One could conclude from this study alone that antidepressants cause both suicidal thoughts and violent behavior. This is a prescription for mass shootings.

    Last edited by Ted Hoppe; 02-10-2019 at 03:24 PM.
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    Default Re: Some Good News on the Civil Liberties Front

    I just gotta say I know at least 5 people that did not vote for another idiot to run the Oklahoma state, and Damn I would hate to be a young person of color in one of these states.
    "para todo mal, mezcal, y para todo bien también" (for everything bad, mezcal, and for everything good, as well.)

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    Quote Originally Posted by George Jung View Post
    you seemingly feel you have a dog in this fight. I’m familiar with some of the CDC numbers from years back before Republicans shut down funding for gun related violence- and that info didn’t support your position. Whatcha got for support besides your ‘gut’?
    Before the late nineteen eighties, mass shootings and acts of senseless violence were relatively unheard of. Prozac, the most well known SSRI (selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor) antidepressant, was not yet on the market. When Prozac did arrive, it was marketed as a panacea for depression which resulted in huge profits for its manufacturer Eli Lilly. Of course other drug companies had to create their own cash cow and followed suit by marketing their own SSRI antidepressants.

    Subsequently, mass shootings and other violent incidents started to be reported. More often than not, the common denominator was that the shooters were on an antidepressant, or withdrawing from one. This is not about an isolated incident or two but numerous shootings. The question is, during the past twenty years is the use of antidepressants here a coincidence or a causation?

    There have been too many mass shootings for it just to be a coincidence. Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold killed twelve students and a teacher at Columbine High School. Eric was on Luvox, an antidepressant. The Virginia Tech shooter killed thirty-two people and he was on an antidepressant. While withdrawing from Prozac, Kip Kinkel murdered his mother and stepmother. He then shot twenty-two classmates and killed two. Jason Hoffman wounded five at his high school while he was on Effexor, also an antidepressant. James Holmes opened fire in a Colorado movie theater and killed twelve people and wounded fifty-eight. He was under the care of a psychiatrist but no information has been released as to what drug he must have been on.
    Stephen Paddock, who killed at least 58 people and wounded hundreds more in Las Vegas with high-powered rifles, was prescribed an anti-anxiety drug in June that can lead to aggressive behavior, the Las Vegas Review-Journal has learned. Records from the Nevada Prescription Monitoring Program obtained Tuesday show Paddock was prescribed 50 10-milligram diazepam tablets by Henderson physician Dr. Steven Winkler on June 21.
    A woman who answered the phone at Winkler’s office would not make him available to answer questions and would neither confirm nor deny that Paddock was ever a patient.
    Paddock purchased the drug — its brand name is Valium — without insurance at a Walgreens store in Reno on the same day it was prescribed. He was supposed to take one pill a day. Diazepam is a sedative-hypnotic drug in the class of drugs known as benzodiazepines, which studies have shown can trigger aggressive behavior. Chronic use or abuse of sedatives such as diazepam can also trigger psychotic experiences, according to drugabuse.com.
    Psychiatrists generally will tell you that these people were mentally ill and they weren’t treated in time or didn’t get enough help to prevent the tragedy. However, Dr. Peter Breggin, who is a psychiatrist, stated that depression rarely leads to violence and that it’s only since the SSRI’s came on the market that such mass shootings have taken place.

    In a study of thirty-one drugs that are disproportionately linked to reports of violence toward others, five of the top ten are antidepressants. These are Prozac, Paxil, Luvox, Effexor and Pristiq. Two other drugs that are for treating ADHD are also in the top ten which means these are being given to children who could then become violent. One could conclude from this study alone that antidepressants cause both suicidal thoughts and violent behavior. This is a prescription for mass shootings.
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    Default Re: Some Good News on the Civil Liberties Front

    "What ever happened to "well regulated"?
    Last edited by PeterSibley; 02-11-2019 at 03:49 AM.
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    Default Re: Some Good News on the Civil Liberties Front

    Quote Originally Posted by Todd Bradshaw View Post
    Why is this moron wearing a six shooter over a kilt?
    And a slow a55ed cross-draw as well.... These are toys to much of America and It has to stop.
    In the US this perverted idea of “blood and soil” over “constitutional principles” is the most radical and anti-democratic and anti-Conservative idea I have heard in my lifetime.

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    Quote Originally Posted by McMike View Post
    These are toys to much of America and It has to stop.
    party poopet
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    Default Re: Some Good News on the Civil Liberties Front

    'poopet'?

    thinking Mike is big for that. 0-:

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    Default Re: Some Good News on the Civil Liberties Front

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Hoppe View Post
    That is such bullsh!t. You should be embarrassed by putting it up.

    Most mass shooters are undergoing medical treatment for depression or mental illness. Most who do murder are under the influence of drugs and alcohol. No rational person would shoot to kill another.

    If you looked at nearly every mass shooter profile and medical records, you will find them under the influence of some kind of uptake inhibitor prescribed by a doctor. Proper mental health would eliminate much of those terrible events. Doctors over precribe the drugs which have adverse effects with very little follow up beyond the cript.

    Every single person knows gun don't kill people, people kill people when they are emotionally unbalanced mostly do to drug and alcohol influences. Deal with the influence and mental state and then problem is nearly solved.
    So Ted, you are saying that the US has more nutters, emotionally unbalanced drunks and druggies per thousand citizens than the UK or Australia?
    Really?
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Hoppe View Post
    Before the late nineteen eighties, mass shootings and acts of senseless violence were relatively unheard of. Prozac, the most well known SSRI (selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor) antidepressant, was not yet on the market. When Prozac did arrive, it was marketed as a panacea for depression which resulted in huge profits for its manufacturer Eli Lilly. Of course other drug companies had to create their own cash cow and followed suit by marketing their own SSRI antidepressants.

    Subsequently, mass shootings and other violent incidents started to be reported. More often than not, the common denominator was that the shooters were on an antidepressant, or withdrawing from one. This is not about an isolated incident or two but numerous shootings. The question is, during the past twenty years is the use of antidepressants here a coincidence or a causation?

    There have been too many mass shootings for it just to be a coincidence. Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold killed twelve students and a teacher at Columbine High School. Eric was on Luvox, an antidepressant. The Virginia Tech shooter killed thirty-two people and he was on an antidepressant. While withdrawing from Prozac, Kip Kinkel murdered his mother and stepmother. He then shot twenty-two classmates and killed two. Jason Hoffman wounded five at his high school while he was on Effexor, also an antidepressant. James Holmes opened fire in a Colorado movie theater and killed twelve people and wounded fifty-eight. He was under the care of a psychiatrist but no information has been released as to what drug he must have been on.
    Stephen Paddock, who killed at least 58 people and wounded hundreds more in Las Vegas with high-powered rifles, was prescribed an anti-anxiety drug in June that can lead to aggressive behavior, the Las Vegas Review-Journal has learned. Records from the Nevada Prescription Monitoring Program obtained Tuesday show Paddock was prescribed 50 10-milligram diazepam tablets by Henderson physician Dr. Steven Winkler on June 21.
    A woman who answered the phone at Winkler’s office would not make him available to answer questions and would neither confirm nor deny that Paddock was ever a patient.
    Paddock purchased the drug — its brand name is Valium — without insurance at a Walgreens store in Reno on the same day it was prescribed. He was supposed to take one pill a day. Diazepam is a sedative-hypnotic drug in the class of drugs known as benzodiazepines, which studies have shown can trigger aggressive behavior. Chronic use or abuse of sedatives such as diazepam can also trigger psychotic experiences, according to drugabuse.com.
    Psychiatrists generally will tell you that these people were mentally ill and they weren’t treated in time or didn’t get enough help to prevent the tragedy. However, Dr. Peter Breggin, who is a psychiatrist, stated that depression rarely leads to violence and that it’s only since the SSRI’s came on the market that such mass shootings have taken place.

    In a study of thirty-one drugs that are disproportionately linked to reports of violence toward others, five of the top ten are antidepressants. These are Prozac, Paxil, Luvox, Effexor and Pristiq. Two other drugs that are for treating ADHD are also in the top ten which means these are being given to children who could then become violent. One could conclude from this study alone that antidepressants cause both suicidal thoughts and violent behavior. This is a prescription for mass shootings.
    You didn’t list your source- nor any studies. It’s all opinion, and the dr you quoted has built his reputation on being anti- medication. I’m at home so I can’t access my lit search- but every study I’ve seen has failed to prove a correlation. And of course we (should) know - correlation, as you’ve implied, doesn’t prove causation. A simple google did come up with this- and its at least interesting if not definitive.
    https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/b...n-search-cause

    so what’s the harm of an ongoing onslaught against medications? Convincing folks who may improve on meds, to avoid them. The science literature isn’t in your favor.
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    Donn, the moron is the guy who wears traditional Scottish kiltwear - kilt, belt and sporran (though about the cheapest versions of them you can possibly buy) and then tops it off with a cheap belt, a crappy holster and a revolver. It has nothing to do with concealed or not. I would have thought you would be smart enough to figure that out, but maybe it's just not something you know much about. You're a baseball guy. Imagine somebody coming up to the plate to bat wearing a baseball uniform and the same holster and gun. It would be similarly inappropriate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by George Jung View Post
    You didn’t list your source- nor any studies. It’s all opinion, and the dr you quoted has built his reputation on being anti- medication. I’m at home so I can’t access my lit search- but every study I’ve seen has failed to prove a correlation. And of course we (should) know - correlation, as you’ve implied, doesn’t prove causation. A simple google did come up with this- and its at least interesting if not definitive.
    https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/b...n-search-cause

    so what’s the harm of an ongoing onslaught against medications? Convincing folks who may improve on meds, to avoid them. The science literature isn’t in your favor.


    The big pharma financed literature is not going to pay for the correlation between the two. As you are quite aware, this is industry fed scientific literature, the dissemination of positives enables market expansion and ensures less regulation. No professor of psychiatry at a major university would write a paper that would destroy the funding source apparatus or would be able to weather the attacks of the industry. And you just presented the argument yourself that if 95 out of 100 people feel better being numbed by doctor prescribed medicines for their depression and anxiety and the insurance companies pay for the medication... who gives a crap to the 5 people who can't handle the medically unmonitored side effects of brain chemical alterations. As in, there sure seems to be correlation between prescription drugs for mental illness and boys or men who are involved in mass shootings. So we may yet see some brave researchers who find this set of circumstances to be -causation!

    in David Healy’s book “Let Them Eat Prozac” for a thoughtful, detailed presentation of the dangers as well as the history associated with these drugs. Healy is a licensed psychiatrist who prescribed Prozac in its early days and then became an advocate against it after being a witness in a lawsuit against Eli Lilly. Among other things, during the trial he had access to the company’s internal documents showing that they knew during the clinical trials (prior to FDA approval) that there were such problems, and suppressed those findings. Lilly won based on a “it’s the disease not the drug” defense

    All we have to do is look at how opioid epidemic took over and how big pharma played a roll in it.

    In the late 1990s, pharmaceutical companies reassured the medical community that patients would not become addicted to prescription opioid pain relievers, and healthcare providers began to prescribe them at greater rates. This subsequently led to widespread diversion and misuse of these medications before it became clear that these medications could indeed be highly addictive.3,4 Opioid overdose rates began to increase. In 2017, more than 47,000 Americans died as a result of an opioid overdose, including prescription opioids, heroin, and illicitly manufactured fentanyl, a powerful synthetic opioid.1That same year, an estimated 1.7 million people in the United States suffered from substance use disorders related to prescription opioid pain relievers, and 652,000 suffered from a heroin use disorder (not mutually exclusive).

    Making correlations between various over prescribed drugs with horrible side effects and human behavior are as significant as the benefits they create. Drug dealers do not care what happens to the drugs after the sell them as long as most customers come back and their sales channels remain extremely profitable. More over when there few other options for the drug users, does it matter who get hurts as long as it not them directly.
    Last edited by Ted Hoppe; 02-10-2019 at 06:47 PM.
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    Default Re: Some Good News on the Civil Liberties Front

    Not sure where you got the idea I agreed with any of that, Ted. I don’t. And IME, most depressed folk do remarkably better on antidepressants, though I try to get them to do counseling as well. It’s not ‘mind numbing’ but chemical/ neurotransmitter imbalance. I’ve been doing this a long while- haven’t set anyone off their nut.

    Your segue to narcotic abuse and it’s players is an entirely different issue. Oh, and the studies I read are vetted, scientifically. Not promoting pharma talking points. I get the sense you see it more conspiratorially.
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    About half of what the FBI classes as 'mass shootings' are domestic violence situations.

    Prozac is not significantly more effective than the tricyclic antidepressants it supplanted. It is, however, substantially less cardiotoxic. Before Prozac, many physicians withheld treatment or underdosed for fear of causing a cardiac event. Prozac did not have that side effect and so was very widely prescribed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Todd Bradshaw View Post
    Imagine somebody coming up to the plate to bat wearing a baseball uniform and the same holster and gun. It would be similarly inappropriate.
    This is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard. There is no comparison between kiltwear and a sports uniform.

    Tell us. What is the appropriate handgun holster for a kilt-wearing revolver carrier...wool plaid?

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    In parasitic infection terms the big pharma companies and their marketing of opoids are a parasite on the populations that they market to. And they also benifit financially from the secondary illicit markets they create.

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    Freedom to murder.

    That's a cause for celebration, if you're the murderous type.
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    Donn, you asked who the moron is. The moron is anyone who thinks they are safer if they carry, open or concealed. Pretty simple.

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    Default Re: Some Good News on the Civil Liberties Front

    Quote Originally Posted by Donn View Post
    This is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard. There is no comparison between kiltwear and a sports uniform.

    Tell us. What is the appropriate handgun holster for a kilt-wearing revolver carrier...wool plaid?
    Hmm, if a man wearing a kilt appeared with a Claymore or a Broadsword in 'open carry' what would be the reaction?

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