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Thread: Interesting statistics on deer rifles

  1. #1
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    Default Interesting statistics on deer rifles

    I was reading a report in the paper this morning on the recent deer hunting season here in Vermont.
    7400 deer shot with a rifle. 6000 shot with muzzleloader rifles.
    Modern muzzleloaders are a lot different then an old musket. They have rifled barrels and who knows what else that make them just as accurate of a regular rifle. But, the fact is, they are a one shot and you are done weapon. If you miss your target, the deer is long gone by the time you reload. But these guys are just as successful of the semi-automatic rifle bunch.

    So, why have semi-automatic rifles if the stats are roughly the same? One shot out of each and the deer is either dead/wounded or long gone into the woods.
    Granted, some hunters might still be hunting with bolt action rifles, but I tend to doubt it.
    Even with semi-automatics, hunting laws in Vermont limit a hunter with a 5 round clip.
    I'm just curious as to why hunters have to wander around in
    the woods with a tricked out semi-automatic when a bolt action or single shot gun is just as efficient.
    I was born on a wooden boat that I built myself.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Interesting statistics on deer rifles

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich Jones View Post
    I'm just curious as to why hunters have to wander around in
    the woods with a tricked out semi-automatic when a bolt action or single shot gun is just as efficient.
    Because you never know when you will encounter a batch of violent immigrants whilst wandering the woods of Vermont?

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Interesting statistics on deer rifles

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich Jones View Post
    Granted, some hunters might still be hunting with bolt action rifles, but I tend to doubt it.
    i think you're very wrong

    bolt action rifles still reign supreme in deer camp
    followed by lever
    followed by shotguns

    semi autos, especially military derived semi autos are way down the list in popularity
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Interesting statistics on deer rifles

    I know the resident deer hunter at work prefers bow hunting season.
    "If you think you are too small to make a difference, try sleeping with a mosquito"

    -Dalai Lama

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    Default Re: Interesting statistics on deer rifles

    Muzzle loader success rates are likely high because of a favorable season.

    Lots of hunters "still use" bolt action rifles, myself included. A bolt or lever action is nearly as fast as a semi auto in reality, because it takes time to aim after a shot.

    Not sure what you mean by "tricked out" semi auto. You may be confusing your gun types.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Interesting statistics on deer rifles

    Quote Originally Posted by L.W. Baxter View Post
    Muzzle loader success rates are likely high because of a favorable season.

    Lots of hunters "still use" bolt action rifles, myself included. A bolt or lever action is nearly as fast as a semi auto in reality, because it takes time to aim after a shot.

    Not sure what you mean by "tricked out" semi auto. You may be confusing your gun types.
    I think folks using black powder are also more likely to be practiced & therefore better shots. Rifle season in VT brings out the guys who shoot guns for 2 weeks out of the year.

    I think Rich is referring to hunting with assault-style guns.
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Interesting statistics on deer rifles

    There’s a variety of reasons. Challenge being one, season length could be another.
    Take to another level archery season for deer hunting is longer in Washington State , and I’d guess that is similar in other states.

    In Washington you have to select which weapon you’ll hunt with , modern firearm, muzzle loader , or archery.

    Archery is the longest season followed by muzzle loader , followed by modern firearm.

    So some people want a longer season, a harder challenge, so they’d select archery or muzzle loader seasons.

    You only get to hunt in the season you select with the weapon you selected. The hunting laws would tell you what is allowed , like cross bows, I’m not sure where they fit in, but the games laws would tell you.

    For some people it’s just the time of year, maybe they hunted with a parent or grandparent , and they are following family traditions.

    So there are a lot of reasons.

    Of course your only reason to post this thread is to get any weapon with more than one bullet taken off the market.
    Why do you live in such fear, why are you angry others might want a rifles that can hold more than one round?

    Semi auto’s , pump actions, bolt actions are all used.

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    Default Re: Interesting statistics on deer rifles

    I'm amazed deer can work a bolt with those weird little hooves they have.

    Peace,
    Robert

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    Default Re: Interesting statistics on deer rifles

    Quote Originally Posted by Garret View Post
    I think folks using black powder are also more likely to be practiced & therefore better shots. Rifle season in VT brings out the guys who shoot guns for 2 weeks out of the year.
    modern muzzle loaders are cheap, don't require a license or background check, can be purchased mail order, they use pellets instead of powder, percussion caps, and fire 'inline' so they have very very fast locktime, they are also weatherproof
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Interesting statistics on deer rifles

    Quote Originally Posted by Garret View Post

    I think Rich is referring to hunting with assault-style guns.
    I think so, too.

    The idea that gun-fanciers justify semi auto, or full auto assault style weapons for utility in hunting is actually an anti-gun canard. The assumption is made by people who don't know anything about hunting, or guns, or gun fanciers/nutters.

    I've never seen anyone deer hunting with an AR or anything similar.

    People buy full auto capable, large capacity military style weapons for the sensation of shooting them, for the fantasy of power and violence they stimulate, not hunting.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Interesting statistics on deer rifles

    bangbangbangbangbangbangbangbangbang bang


    got it!

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Interesting statistics on deer rifles

    Quote Originally Posted by amish rob View Post
    I'm amazed deer can work a bolt with those weird little hooves they have.

    Peace,
    Robert
    They have very dextrous tongues.

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    Default Re: Interesting statistics on deer rifles

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pless View Post
    i think you're very wrong

    bolt action rifles still reign supreme in deer camp
    followed by lever
    followed by shotguns

    semi autos, especially military derived semi autos are way down the list in popularity
    Bolt actions should be outlawed. They are dangerous, I had a friend who dropped a bolt on his foot and had to wear a cast for weeks.

    Good reason to go full auto.

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    Default Re: Interesting statistics on deer rifles

    Quote Originally Posted by L.W. Baxter View Post
    I think so, too.

    The idea that gun-fanciers justify semi auto, or full auto assault style weapons for utility in hunting is actually an anti-gun canard. The assumption is made by people who don't know anything about hunting, or guns, or gun fanciers/nutters.

    I've never seen anyone deer hunting with an AR or anything similar.

    People buy full auto capable, large capacity military style weapons for the sensation of shooting them, for the fantasy of power and violence they stimulate, not hunting.
    I have seen folks out hunting with AR clones - the # has increased over the last few years - probably due to everybody & their dog making them, thus dropping prices. Well - for some (likely folks from away), there's the "cool factor" as well.

    @ Paul: Most of the folks hunting with muzzleloaders around here are shooting 50 cal.
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

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    Default Re: Interesting statistics on deer rifles

    I don't know what I'm talking about, but I am against it.

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    Default Re: Interesting statistics on deer rifles

    [QUOTE=L.W. Baxter;5809103

    Not sure what you mean by "tricked out" semi auto. You may be confusing your gun types.[/QUOTE]

    That’s part of any anti gun persons mantra to “fire for effect”.

    If we where talking about ski boot bindings , I bet Rick still uses deer hide strands to tie Spruce sticks to his moccasins :-))

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Interesting statistics on deer rifles

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pless View Post
    i think you're very wrong

    bolt action rifles still reign supreme in deer camp
    followed by lever
    followed by shotguns

    semi autos, especially military derived semi autos are way down the list in popularity
    I have to admit, I'm going by what I hear during hunting season. I live out in the boonies and hear the shooting all the time. Sometimes it's a single shot, but a lot of time it's one shot followed by a few rapid fire shots as the hunter chases the deer with bullet from a semi-automatic. I highly doubt there is any success with that.
    I was born on a wooden boat that I built myself.

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    Default Re: Interesting statistics on deer rifles

    Quote Originally Posted by sarnella View Post
    I don't know what I'm talking about, but I am against it.

    Amen!

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Interesting statistics on deer rifles

    Quote Originally Posted by Garret View Post
    I have seen folks out hunting with AR clones - the # has increased over the last few years - probably due to everybody & their dog making them, thus dropping prices. Well - for some (likely folks from away), there's the "cool factor" as well.

    @ Paul: Most of the folks hunting with muzzleloaders around here are shooting 50 cal.
    Not too prudent to hunt a deer with smaller, black powder wise. Even with a modern inline and 150 grains of pelletized wonder, a body can SEE the bullet travel through the air, and eventually lose power and fall. It's for all the world like a red ryder bb gun.

    My uncle hunts black powder for deer and bow and arrow for turkey. Two years ago one of the Thanksgiving turkeys (big fam, yo) came from his hand with my bow. So, there's that...

    Peace,
    Robert

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    Default Re: Interesting statistics on deer rifles

    Quote Originally Posted by Garret View Post
    I have seen folks out hunting with AR clones - the # has increased over the last few years - probably due to everybody & their dog making them, thus dropping prices. Well - for some (likely folks from away), there's the "cool factor" as well.
    the civilian gun and hunting market has always followed the military market no? back in the day spingfields and mausers were and remain popular hunting rifles, why would it be any different with scary black rifles, erm I mean ar's?
    Quote Originally Posted by Garret View Post
    @ Paul: Most of the folks hunting with muzzleloaders around here are shooting 50 cal.
    .50 cal has always sorta been the standard of the industry in muzzle loaders, going all the way back to the flint lock era - recall these are still slow velocity guns
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

  21. #21
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    Default Re: Interesting statistics on deer rifles

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Girouard View Post
    That’s part of any anti gun persons mantra to “fire for effect”.

    If we where talking about ski boot bindings , I bet Rick still uses deer hide strands to tie Spruce sticks to his moccasins :-))
    As for ski gear, no deer hide strands for me. I just bought new skis, bindings and boots last year. Nothing but the newest, safest, most advanced ski equipment available. But, the only thing I'm likely to kill with them is myself!
    I don't believe I mentioned anything about banning semi-automatics. I just found it interesting that the muzzleloaders bagged as many deer as modern rifles.
    Paul pointed out that bolt-action rifles are still very popular among hunters. But this just reinforces my opinion that having semi-automatics for hunting is not going to get you better results.

    One last thing, please don't call me Rick. I hate that version of Richard. Rich, Mr. Jones or "Hey you, stupid" is what I usually answer to.
    I was born on a wooden boat that I built myself.

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    Default Re: Interesting statistics on deer rifles

    Quote Originally Posted by sarnella View Post
    I don't know what I'm talking about, but I am against it.
    I don't know what you're talking about either. But I'll gladly join in your opposition. Here... have a beer.
    David G
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  23. #23

    Default Re: Interesting statistics on deer rifles

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pless View Post
    the civilian gun and hunting market has always followed the military market no? back in the day spingfields and mausers were and remain popular hunting rifles, why would it be any different with scary black rifles, erm I mean ar's?.50 cal has always sorta been the standard of the industry in muzzle loaders, going all the way back to the flint lock era - recall these are still slow velocity guns
    I have always been curious about why the .50 became the standard the .54 hits much harder and at the velocities and range a muzzleloader is meant to be used it has always seemed to me to be the sweet spot.

  24. #24
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    Default Re: Interesting statistics on deer rifles

    One shot, ya choose carefully. Semi automatic, more options. I’ve sevl pts hunt with AR’s.
    There's a lot of things they didn't tell me when I signed on with this outfit....

  25. #25
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    Default Re: Interesting statistics on deer rifles

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich Jones View Post
    As for ski gear, no deer hide strands for me. I just bought new skis, bindings and boots last year. Nothing but the newest, safest, most advanced ski equipment available. But, the only thing I'm likely to kill with them is myself!
    I don't believe I mentioned anything about banning semi-automatics. I just found it interesting that the muzzleloaders bagged as many deer as modern rifles.
    Paul pointed out that bolt-action rifles are still very popular among hunters. But this just reinforces my opinion that having semi-automatics for hunting is not going to get you better results.

    One last thing, please don't call me Rick. I hate that version of Richard. Rich, Mr. Jones or "Hey you, stupid" is what I usually answer to.
    Typo / typing fast on the name, Rich. Sorry, good thing you’re not named Micheal , LOL. We’ve seen the carnage from that!!

    On the latest and greatest, some hunters , like some golfers , of name your sport just HAVE to spend money on that new ; putter , scope , range finder , ski boot lashing , better ski pole , better rock climbing hammer , cleat , rope , >>>>>>>>the list is endless.

    I have a 30-06 Remington pump action , one sights , a Ithaca “deer slayer” pump action with a slug barrel and a upland game barrel for ducks and well upland game hunting.

    BUT some people have to have every gadget that comes out.

  26. #26
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    Default Re: Interesting statistics on deer rifles

    Bolt action or slide action rifles and shotguns are very common for deer hunting here in WI. My sons were taught that if you don't think you can drop the deer with one shot don't shoot.

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    Default Re: Interesting statistics on deer rifles

    Quote Originally Posted by cut3times View Post
    Bolt action or slide action rifles and shotguns are very common for deer hunting here in WI. My sons were taught that if you don't think you can drop the deer with one shot don't shoot.
    Indeed. I learned very young - toting a .22. A different style of hunting. One relies on stealth to get close enough for a head shot. Because anything else is liable to result in a long tracking exercise... then the potential of a very long schlep to haul the meat out. But the approach remains. Assume you only get one shot.
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  28. #28
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    Default Re: Interesting statistics on deer rifles

    this just reinforces my opinion that having semi-automatics for hunting is not going to get you better results.
    With all due respect, Rich, your ambiguity is maddening.

    As it stands, your argument is nearly meaningless.

  29. #29
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    Default Re: Interesting statistics on deer rifles

    In 2017 in Vermont, 41% of deer harvested were antlerless. It looks like antlerless deer can only be taken legally with muzzleloaders or bows during the seasons for those weapons. Antlered bucks only made up 18% of deer taken during muzzleloader season.

    https://vtfishandwildlife.com/sites/...t%20report.pdf

  30. #30
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    Default Re: Interesting statistics on deer rifles

    Mystery solved. As I said earlier, "favorable season".

  31. #31
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    Default Re: Interesting statistics on deer rifles

    I have always been curious about why the .50 became the standard the .54 hits much harder and at the velocities and range a muzzleloader is meant to be used it has always seemed to me to be the sweet spot.
    I think it was from folks watching mountain man movies like Jeremiah Johnson, where he used a .50 cal Hawken and suddenly one of the most popular muzzle loaders was a .50 Hawken replica. Some were a lot more accurate to the originals than others, depending on who made them. So the big muzzle loader markets were for eastern-style long rifles (often flintlock) and percussion plains rifles like the .50 Hawken, despite the fact that the .54 had somewhat better ballistics.

    My 1978 Ithaca .50 Hawken at top, and a .32 plains-style squirrel rifle I built from a kit below it.

    H&C.jpg

    I only hunt animals like this plywood buffalo. They're easy to hit because they don't move, but the meat is awfully chewy.

    Buff0.jpg

  32. #32
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    Default Re: Interesting statistics on deer rifles

    Quote Originally Posted by LeeG View Post
    bangbangbangbangbangbangbangbangbang bang


    got it!
    Quote Originally Posted by Rich Jones View Post
    I have to admit, I'm going by what I hear during hunting season. I live out in the boonies and hear the shooting all the time. Sometimes it's a single shot, but a lot of time it's one shot followed by a few rapid fire shots as the hunter chases the deer with bullet from a semi-automatic. I highly doubt there is any success with that.
    One shot, he got it.
    Two shots, maybe.
    Three shots, he missed it.

  33. #33
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    Default Re: Interesting statistics on deer rifles

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich Jones View Post
    I'm just curious as to why hunters have to wander around in
    the woods with a tricked out semi-automatic when a bolt action or single shot gun is just as efficient.
    Because they have no skill. If they practiced, they would not need 5 shots. No discipline. No skill. No need if you have a fast firing rifle.

  34. #34
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    Default Re: Interesting statistics on deer rifles

    I quit hunting about , jeesh 25 years ago !! Damned where’d the time go?


    This guy I fired four shots at, I was the stand guy , three other guys where pushing thru a section of trees. I was on a deer run , he never really saw me, first shot got him in the LH front chest, he kept running , second shot IIRC missed , third shot was double OO buck , he took some flake , couple of horn tips shot off, a round to his forehead . He fell three steps from me in the log road ditch, had he not gone down I suppose he’d have hit me , or maybe I’d have moved . We’ll never know.
    Ithaca Deer Slayer 12 gauge , open sights, Whidbey is shotgun only.

    21807805-E331-4124-A1BD-2979A27E7185.jpg


    This guy was the classic one shot one kill deer , standing on a stump about 100 yards from where the 91 buck was shot, one shot to the neck, dropped like a rock.

    49C651E0-526F-4AEC-95EE-E6061D837299.jpg

    Got a bigger buck the next season about 50 yards from that spot , that was a two shot deer, both rounds found meat, he ran 25 - 30 feet into the brush, hard to drag him out of the brush.

    Haaven’t hunted since. Rules scavenged on access, seemed more work than it was worth to find land owners and get written permission for one thing , for another if you shoot a deer he might run onto some one else property so now you are breaking the law .
    I miss deer burger in my chilly , but other than that, it was a battle to get my wife to cook venison.

    Deer are now pests on Whidbey , but I’ve avoided hitting any with my truck , and I enjoy sneaking up on them if I see one lurking around the jobsites.

    But I shot my last deer I’m pretty sure, I don’t see me going hunting deer any more, unless the huge state of emergency stops all trucking to bring beef onto Whidbey ! LOL

  35. #35
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    In most of the Midwest (Ohio, Indiana, llpinois, loser Michigan...), deer hunting with rifles is prohibited. Too many friendly fire incidents over the years.

    12-ga shotgun with slug or buckshot only. Or bow or muzzle loader during primitive weapons season... I suspect atlatl+javelin is legal too.
    You would not enjoy Nietzsche, sir. He is fundamentally unsound. — P.G. Wodehouse (Carry On, Jeeves)

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