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Thread: What a difference having health insurance makes

  1. #71
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    Default Re: What a difference having health insurance makes

    Quote Originally Posted by RonW View Post
    So you really expect anyone to believe that you was billed $9300. for a x-ray ..That visit would have been about $300 at most with x-rays here.

    It would take an idiot to agree to pay that price .
    I needed an MRI/MRA. I asked what the cost would be so when my bill arrived, I knew about what my 10% deductible would be. They said $13,500. So I expect my share to be $1350. I get the bill and it's something like $100, perhaps $135, it was a long time ago. The insurance only paid about 1/10 the cash price. I thought this practice, overcharging for the cash price versus insurance, was banned in the US, for all non-profit hospitals, by legislation passed during the Obama administration, but I could be mistaken.
    When you can take the pebble from my hand, it will be time for you to leave.

  2. #72
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    Default Re: What a difference having health insurance makes

    Quote Originally Posted by BrianW View Post
    Aside the universal healthcare debate (which I'm still very much in favor of) am I the ony one that thinks the charged amount was way too high, yet the agreed amount way too low? In the first example mind you.

    $9300 is pretty expensive, but I would think that for $168 it would be hard to keep the lights on in that office.
    X-rays have gotten cheaper because they are now digital, no film, which was the expensive consumable with the old method. (Also, digital x-rays only use 20% of the radiation, better for the patient.) I'm guessing the x-rays and exam took much less than an hour, not counting waiting time. $168 an hour I think covers the costs for x-ray with technician, and 5 minutes of the doctor looking at the x-ray and talking to you and writing a prescription. Keep in mind that both were also dealing with 11 other patients at the same time within that same hour, which comes out to $2016 an hour total if all have the same needs. I think that keeps the lights on.
    Last edited by Bob (oh, THAT Bob); 02-10-2019 at 12:08 AM.
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  3. #73
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    Default Re: What a difference having health insurance makes

    Quote Originally Posted by Too Little Time View Post
    I am sure you did not do the math. I did...
    Quote Originally Posted by George Jung View Post
    Gonna have to show your math....and assumptions. I do believe you are....wrong.
    crickets?

  4. #74
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    Default Re: What a difference having health insurance makes

    All I can say is I'm glad I won the country of residence lottery and don't live where I have to pay for healthcare like that.
    If one advances confidently in the direction of his dreams, and endeavors to live the life which he has imagined, he will meet with a success unexpected in common hours.
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  5. #75
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    Default Re: What a difference having health insurance makes

    Quote Originally Posted by George Jung View Post
    Gonna have to show your math....and assumptions. I do believe you are....wrong.
    You are welcome to your belief. I told you how I did the math and what my assumptions were.

    But I think your issue is that you view the concept of "time value of money" much differently than I do.
    Life is complex.

  6. #76
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    Default Re: What a difference having health insurance makes

    No. You gave some really vague assumptions, no details, and then declared victory. And I get it- you have nothing, and all real life evidence contradicts your claim.
    There's a lot of things they didn't tell me when I signed on with this outfit....

  7. #77

    Default Re: What a difference having health insurance makes

    Quote Originally Posted by Too Little Time View Post
    You are welcome to your belief. I told you how I did the math and what my assumptions were.

    But I think your issue is that you view the concept of "time value of money" much differently than I do.
    If I started with 1k and added $90 a month (2%) of my before tax income after 40 years at 5% I will have saved 138k, at 7% 231k, and that is with my never having any health care costs over those 40 years. I don't get anything like 7% from my bank, a 1 year to bill pays less than 3% so using the same numbers 3% I would have saved 85k.

    https://www.investor.gov/additional-...est-calculator

  8. #78
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    Default Re: What a difference having health insurance makes

    If you tell them you are paying for the procedure they want their money up front.
    Just another spin on that, wherein one has coverage but the care costs less than the deductible. And please chime in, Doc, I am sure you are more experienced than I.

    I have employer based insurance. "Super-high deductible," plan requires I pay $5K in a year before insurance pays anything...then it pays it all.

    Had an ER visit to remove a fishing hook embedded in the top of my head. They billed me. The bill was... $4,700. That was for a resident to snip off the barb, pull the hook out backwards and apply antiseptic and a bandage. This was a major chain/ conglomerate hospital ( Northwell Health)

    I found the charge outrageous. I have pulled out my share of fish hooks from my own and other people's flesh and it's just not that a big deal. I would have did this one except that I could not see it, being located on top of my head.

    I called and griped. I got a supervisor on the phone. I refused to pay. Hung up. Ignored calls and letters for three months. Waited until they sent the letter saying the matter was going to collection. Called the billing supervisor back at that point. She offered and I accepted $675...which I thought a fair price. I read her my debit card number.

    So, you can negotiate and two, though I was not covered, they still billed me. Three... how freaking stupid?!. Just be fair to begin with.

    Kevin
    There are two kinds of boaters: those who have run aground, and those who lie about it.

  9. #79

    Default Re: What a difference having health insurance makes

    Quote Originally Posted by Breakaway View Post
    Just another spin on that, wherein one has coverage but the care costs less than the deductible. And please chime in, Doc, I am sure you are more experienced than I.

    I have employer based insurance. "Super-high deductible," plan requires I pay $5K in a year before insurance pays anything...then it pays it all.

    Had an ER visit to remove a fishing hook embedded in the top of my head. They billed me. The bill was... $4,700. That was for a resident to snip off the barb, pull the hook out backwards and apply antiseptic and a bandage. This was a major chain/ conglomerate hospital ( Northwell Health)

    I found the charge outrageous. I have pulled out my share of fish hooks from my own and other people's flesh and it's just not that a big deal. I would have did this one except that I could not see it, being located on top of my head.

    I called and griped. I got a supervisor on the phone. I refused to pay. Hung up. Ignored calls and letters for three months. Waited until they sent the letter saying the matter was going to collection. Called the billing supervisor back at that point. She offered and I accepted $675...which I thought a fair price. I read her my debit card number.

    So, you can negotiate and two, though I was not covered, they still billed me. Three... how freaking stupid?!. Just be fair to begin with.

    Kevin
    You might want to check your credit report..

  10. #80
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    Default Re: What a difference having health insurance makes

    You might want to check your credit report..
    It probably took a ding. That's better than paying the Medical Mafia eight times what the job is worth. Thieves.

    Kevin
    There are two kinds of boaters: those who have run aground, and those who lie about it.

  11. #81
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    Default Re: What a difference having health insurance makes

    Amazing assumptions. For people like TLT the idea that everyone has money they can afford to lose is completely normal. Of course, everyone can afford to "invest" in an unreliable tool, liable to collapse under bad husbandry, managed by someone to whom one must pay a fee.

    For RonW the idea of just telling your lawyer to solve the problem seems perfectly reasonable.

    Boggles my mind that people are so completely disassociated from the majority of the nation's population that they even suggest things like Health Savings Accounts.

    When you can't afford to set aside $10 a week in a savings account, because you need that money to be liquid in case of emergencies, stashing cash in the market is beyond the imagination. If you live from paycheck to paycheck, that's where you are - hoarding every spare penny in case of unexpected bills. If you live in a cash economy, you do the same.
    A society predicated on the assumption that everyone in it should want to get rich is not well situated to become either ethical or imaginative.

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  12. #82
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    Default Re: What a difference having health insurance makes

    6.5% of American households do not have a bank account of any type;

    https://www.fdic.gov/householdsurvey/
    A society predicated on the assumption that everyone in it should want to get rich is not well situated to become either ethical or imaginative.

    Photographer of sailing and sailboats
    And other things, too.
    http://www.landsedgephoto.com

  13. #83
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    Default Re: What a difference having health insurance makes

    Quote Originally Posted by BrianW View Post
    Aside the universal healthcare debate (which I'm still very much in favor of) am I the ony one that thinks the charged amount was way too high, yet the agreed amount way too low? In the first example mind you.

    $9300 is pretty expensive, but I would think that for $168 it would be hard to keep the lights on in that office.
    I agree on all counts. For moderately skilled labor, I have to charge a minimum of $75/hour. That covers overhead and a little for risk and profit. The tech has to cost a bit more than typical labor, then the Dr. I would imagine a minimum of $300 in this case, not taking into account any time that wasn't generating revenue during a typical day. $400-$600 all things considered.
    In the US this perverted idea of “blood and soil” over “constitutional principles” is the most radical and anti-democratic and anti-Conservative idea I have heard in my lifetime.

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    Default Re: What a difference having health insurance makes

    MY sympathy America, you are being royally scammed.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

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    Default Re: What a difference having health insurance makes

    make America great again
    whatever rocks your boat

  16. #86
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    Default Re: What a difference having health insurance makes

    The main reason for the high cost of health care in the US, compared to more civilized countries, is overcharging by doctors and rampant Medicare fraud.

    The big healthcare corporations routinely game the Medicare system by messing with billing codes and adding services that were not performed. The Republicans in power don't do anything to rein in this theft, because they get kickbacks in campaign contributions and heaps of graft from insurance lobbyists.

    Rick Scott, the former Republican governor of Florida, was head of a healthcare corporation that stole billions (not millions) through defrauding Medicare. He bailed out just before they were indicted. Other executives got felony convictions while he bankrolled his political career with money stolen from taxpayers.
    We're merely mammals. Let's misbehave! —Cole Porter

  17. #87
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    Default Re: What a difference having health insurance makes

    I don’t believe your first statement is correct.

    https://www.merckmanuals.com/home/fu...lth-care-costs
    There's a lot of things they didn't tell me when I signed on with this outfit....

  18. #88
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    Default Re: What a difference having health insurance makes

    I spent over 10 hours in a Baltimore emergency room yesterday. Probably due to the upcoming bad weather, it was packed with unfortunate folks who were homeless and clinging to their possessions which most carried in a garbage bag. Even though it was doubtful they were ill, each had to be treated as though they were.I'm pretty sure none will be paying their bill. Just FYI. (and no, I didn't have a heart attack as the urgent care center thought)
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  19. #89
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    Default Re: What a difference having health insurance makes

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Adams View Post
    I spent over 10 hours in a Baltimore emergency room yesterday. Probably due to the upcoming bad weather, it was packed with unfortunate folks who were homeless and clinging to their possessions which most carried in a garbage bag. Even though it was doubtful they were ill, each had to be treated as though they were.I'm pretty sure none will be paying their bill. Just FYI. (and no, I didn't have a heart attack as the urgent care center thought)
    Glad you're ok.

    Jeff C

  20. #90
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    Default Re: What a difference having health insurance makes

    I just received the explanation of benefits (basic bill) from TriCare for the aneurysm repair with stents that I had in December. The bill for just the doctor was $32K and the bill from the hospital was $170K.

    My share of all of this was $0.

    I don't know how anyone without good insurance can financially survive a hospital visit in this country.
    Tom

    "Leave the gun, take the cannolis"

  21. #91
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    Default Re: What a difference having health insurance makes

    Quote Originally Posted by ccmanuals View Post
    I just received the explanation of benefits (basic bill) from TriCare for the aneurysm repair with stents that I had in December. The bill for just the doctor was $32K and the bill from the hospital was $170K.

    My share of all of this was $0.

    I don't know how anyone without good insurance can financially survive a hospital visit in this country.
    Even if you had a deductible, I'm guessing, it would be an amount between what your insurance covered and what they allowed, which would be much less than the bill.
    How do we form a mutiny? Our new captain is navigating poorly.

  22. #92
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    Default Re: What a difference having health insurance makes

    Quote Originally Posted by ccmanuals View Post
    I just received the explanation of benefits (basic bill) from TriCare for the aneurysm repair with stents that I had in December. The bill for just the doctor was $32K and the bill from the hospital was $170K.

    My share of all of this was $0.

    I don't know how anyone without good insurance can financially survive a hospital visit in this country.
    I don't know why people need insurance.

    I was in the hospital last weekend - Friday night until Monday noon. I expect to get a bill sometime. I expect to be able to pay it. Sometime around June - have to wait until I am 70-1/2, I will send donations to the ambulance service and the charity affiliated with the hospital.

    But then I was frugal, saved, and invested. And the hospital and ambulance service are willing to provide for those in need.
    Life is complex.

  23. #93
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    Default Re: What a difference having health insurance makes

    Quote Originally Posted by Too Little Time View Post
    I don't know why people need insurance.

    I was in the hospital last weekend - Friday night until Monday noon. I expect to get a bill sometime. I expect to be able to pay it. Sometime around June - have to wait until I am 70-1/2, I will send donations to the ambulance service and the charity affiliated with the hospital.

    But then I was frugal, saved, and invested. And the hospital and ambulance service are willing to provide for those in need.
    Lucky your illness occurred after you had time to save and invest. Lots of people aren't that lucky.
    Tom

  24. #94
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    Default Re: What a difference having health insurance makes

    Quote Originally Posted by Too Little Time View Post
    I don't know why people need insurance.

    I was in the hospital last weekend - Friday night until Monday noon. I expect to get a bill sometime. I expect to be able to pay it. Sometime around June - have to wait until I am 70-1/2, I will send donations to the ambulance service and the charity affiliated with the hospital.

    But then I was frugal, saved, and invested. And the hospital and ambulance service are willing to provide for those in need.
    You are 70 and don't have Medicare? That is really stupid assuming you were eligible.

  25. #95

    Default Re: What a difference having health insurance makes

    Quote Originally Posted by Too Little Time View Post
    I don't know why people need insurance.

    I was in the hospital last weekend - Friday night until Monday noon. I expect to get a bill sometime. I expect to be able to pay it. Sometime around June - have to wait until I am 70-1/2, I will send donations to the ambulance service and the charity affiliated with the hospital.

    But then I was frugal, saved, and invested. And the hospital and ambulance service are willing to provide for those in need.
    Three nights in the hospital isn't going to be cheap, around 8k a day more or less depending on your local and needs, your probably looking at a 15-20k bill, not everyone can write that check, the Australians seem to get it done on 2% of a person's gross income, if you look at my previous post you just blew through almost 25% of your 40 years savings at t-bill rates.

  26. #96
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    Default Re: What a difference having health insurance makes

    Quote Originally Posted by John Smith View Post
    Even if you had a deductible, I'm guessing, it would be an amount between what your insurance covered and what they allowed, which would be much less than the bill.
    John, the point I was trying to make is if you didn't have insurance you would have to have $200K in your pocket to have this type of procedure.
    Tom

    "Leave the gun, take the cannolis"

  27. #97
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    Default Re: What a difference having health insurance makes

    Not sure what planet tlt hails from- but don’t follow his ‘lead’- there lies madness!
    There's a lot of things they didn't tell me when I signed on with this outfit....

  28. #98
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    Default Re: What a difference having health insurance makes

    Quote Originally Posted by George Jung View Post
    Not sure what planet tlt hails from- but don’t follow his ‘lead’- there lies madness!
    I'm hoping you realized this, years ago, George
    "Reason and facts are sacrificed to opinion and myth. Demonstrable falsehoods are circulated and recycled as fact. Narrow minded opinion refuses to be subjected to thought and analysis. Too many now subject events to a prefabricated set of interpretations, usually provided by a biased media source. The myth is more comfortable than the often difficult search for truth."







  29. #99
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    Default Re: What a difference having health insurance makes

    Ja- trying to help the newbies!
    There's a lot of things they didn't tell me when I signed on with this outfit....

  30. #100
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    Default Re: What a difference having health insurance makes

    Quote Originally Posted by Too Little Time View Post
    I don't know why people need insurance.
    Yes, many of us have long recognized that you don't have any understanding of the realities so many of your fellow citizens face.

    Quote Originally Posted by Too Little Time View Post
    But then I was frugal, saved, and invested.
    But you left out the biggest factor: you have been incredibly fortunate, just by pure blind chance. A fortune many do not share.

    the people at the top of the wealth pyramid had experienced the luckiest events during their simulated lives, while those at the bottom had been hit by the unluckiest ones.
    https://www.sciencealert.com/luck-no...makes-you-rich

    Tom
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  31. #101
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    Default Re: What a difference having health insurance makes

    Quote Originally Posted by ccmanuals View Post
    John, the point I was trying to make is if you didn't have insurance you would have to have $200K in your pocket to have this type of procedure.
    Which most people don't have, and would not be able to pay The point made back in the TIME article was the hospital doesn't eat this unpaid bill. In some way or another it is passed on to the rest of us. It's a screwed up system.
    How do we form a mutiny? Our new captain is navigating poorly.

  32. #102
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    Default Re: What a difference having health insurance makes

    To reiterate, a hospital may bill $5,000 for some procedure. If you have no insurance, you are responsible for that amount.

    If you have insurance, your insurance may allow them to charge $300 for that procedure, which would be the maximum they could bill you for.

    Depending on your insurance, it may pay the entire $300 (maybe split between primary and secondary as in my case) Maybe you have a $2000 yearly deductible. Then they would pay nothing on this bill, but you can still only be charged $300.

    It still helps to have the insurance.
    How do we form a mutiny? Our new captain is navigating poorly.

  33. #103
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    Default Re: What a difference having health insurance makes

    I would add that it helps to have GOOD insurance
    Tom

    "Leave the gun, take the cannolis"

  34. #104
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    Default Re: What a difference having health insurance makes

    Quote Originally Posted by Todd D View Post
    You are 70 and don't have Medicare? That is really stupid assuming you were eligible.
    I am and I do. But Medicare is only ACA compliant due to an exception, not because it covers much.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Smith porter maine View Post
    Three nights in the hospital isn't going to be cheap, around 8k a day more or less depending on your local and needs, your probably looking at a 15-20k bill, not everyone can write that check, the Australians seem to get it done on 2% of a person's gross income, if you look at my previous post you just blew through almost 25% of your 40 years savings at t-bill rates.
    I don't live in Australia. So the comparison seems out of place. But then I don't invest in t-bills either.

    As I said earlier in this thread health insurance is a bad deal in the US. While other complain about their costs, I simply made a different choice.
    Life is complex.

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    Default Re: What a difference having health insurance makes

    Quote Originally Posted by ccmanuals View Post
    I would add that it helps to have GOOD insurance
    thats the chicken dinner.
    i am just a clown and the world is a joke.

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