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Thread: De Blasio?

  1. #1
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    Default De Blasio?

    I heard him on Maher the other night, and I think he has the right idea.

    The 'Republican' Party has dragged the Democrats so far right that they are not connecting with Democrats, anymore.

    The Ds are afraid of the RWW taliking points.

    The Rs say No Universal Health Care! It's too expensive! It's Socialism! and the Ds cave.

    Bullspit.

    The numbers are there. 70% of us want UHC.

    Democrats may not have the Senate, but they have a MUCH larger base than the howling morons who voted for Trump.

    The Ds need to put on their big boy pants and kick these imbeciles to the curb.


    Bill can be Prez.

    I don't like Harris, or Castro.

    Schultz is the second punchline of the joke that we're not laughing at now.

    I want Warren in the Senate.

    Bernie and Biden are too old.
    Rattling the teacups.

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    Default Re: De Blasio?

    Funny. This is pretty much exactly what some of us Democratic voters have been saying on other threads, suggesting that a Hilary-type centrist is not the answer, and I don't remember you (and many others) being too open to this argument then. Nice to see there is some common ground starting to form.

    Tom
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    Default Re: De Blasio?

    What??

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    Default Re: De Blasio?

    Quote Originally Posted by oznabrag View Post

    The Ds need to put on their big boy pants..
    They'll have to figure out if the fly goes in the front or the back first.

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    Default De Blasio?

    Quote Originally Posted by oznabrag View Post
    I heard him on Maher the other night, and I think he has the right idea.

    The 'Republican' Party has dragged the Democrats so far right that they are not connecting with Democrats, anymore.

    The Ds are afraid of the RWW taliking points.
    That starts with one William Jefferson Clinton and his "triangulation" strategy. Move to the right, co-opt a Republican issue.. and win.

    Except that the GOP then moves further right.

    Wash, rinse, repeat.

    Hugely destructive. Bad strategy.

    Not that the Democratic Party did itself any favors in the 80s, following Reagan's installation as President-cum-saint. When they had sizable majorities in both house of Congress...

    And STILL rolled over for whatever the hell he wanted.

    Enablers.
    You would not enjoy Nietzsche, sir. He is fundamentally unsound. ó P.G. Wodehouse (Carry On, Jeeves)

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    Default Re: De Blasio?

    He was photographed the other day eating pizza with a fork. That disqualifes him. He should resign.
    I was born on a wooden boat that I built myself.

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    Default Re: De Blasio?

    Quote Originally Posted by WI-Tom View Post
    Funny. This is pretty much exactly what some of us Democratic voters have been saying on other threads, suggesting that a Hilary-type centrist is not the answer, and I don't remember you (and many others) being too open to this argument then. Nice to see there is some common ground starting to form.

    Tom
    I am simply delighted to assert that given the choice between Clinton and Trump, I vote Clinton.

    Given the choice between those two, I don't run around in circles whining about Bernie, and claiming Trump is all the fault of the Democratic Party.

    You can't have Bernie bloviating his little spitstorm about how evil and corrupt Clinton is, over and over again, getting his 'base' all up in arms, and then expect those people to vote for her in the general.

    Bernie messed up.

    I posted this thread in order to have a conversation about 2020.

    If you want to talk about 2016, go revive one of your Hillary-bashing funfests.
    Rattling the teacups.

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    Default Re: De Blasio?

    Quote Originally Posted by WI-Tom View Post
    Funny. This is pretty much exactly what some of us Democratic voters have been saying on other threads, suggesting that a Hilary-type centrist is not the answer, and I don't remember you (and many others) being too open to this argument then. Nice to see there is some common ground starting to form.

    Tom
    Furthermore, calling Hillary a 'centrist' does not help anyone gain an accurate picture of politics in this country.
    Rattling the teacups.

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    Default Re: De Blasio?

    I thought DiBlasio came off very well on Maher's show. He is unafraid to think big which I like very much. I will pay attention should he throw his hat into the ring.
    Gerard>
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    Default Re: De Blasio?

    Quote Originally Posted by oznabrag View Post
    I posted this thread in order to have a conversation about 2020.
    Great. That's what my post was about.

    So if you want to talk about 2020, why are you posting stuff like this?

    Quote Originally Posted by oznabrag View Post
    You can't have Bernie bloviating his little spitstorm about how evil and corrupt Clinton is, over and over again, getting his 'base' all up in arms, and then expect those people to vote for her in the general.

    Bernie messed up.
    As for this:

    Quote Originally Posted by oznabrag View Post
    The Rs say No Universal Health Care! It's too expensive! It's Socialism! and the Ds cave.

    Bullspit.

    The numbers are there. 70% of us want UHC.
    That is exactly the kind of thing I've been saying all along on earlier threads. So you seem to be saying now that the Democrats should run a candidate in favor of UHC, who will fight for it. Again, exactly what I've been saying all along.

    So I'll try again: It's nice to see some common ground forming.

    Tom
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    Default Re: De Blasio?

    Quote Originally Posted by oznabrag View Post
    Furthermore, calling Hillary a 'centrist' does not help anyone gain an accurate picture of politics in this country.
    It might help you get an accurate picture if you paid attention:

    New Democrats, also called centrist Democrats, Clinton Democrats or moderate Democrats, are a centrist ideological faction within the Democratic Party.
    SOURCE

    (Which goes on to list Hilary Clinton as an example).

    Tom
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    Default Re: De Blasio?

    The New Democrats have become decidedly right-of-center.

    O'Bama was the finest right-of-center President we've had since Eisenhower.
    Rattling the teacups.

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    Default Re: De Blasio?

    I agree that today's centrists are further right than yesterday's centrists, and that the entire political spectrum has shifted right in absolute terms in the U.S. But I think a good case could be made that "left" and "right" and "center" are relative labels, not absolute ones. That's why I've consistently been arguing that the Democrats ought to choose a more progressive candidate in 2020. And that, since the party old guard isn't likely to do that without being pressured to do so, it's going to be up to primary voters to push them in that direction.

    So again, it appears that we have found some common ground.

    Tom
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    Default Re: De Blasio?

    so, yet another hillary thread. . .

    <sigh>
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

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    Default Re: De Blasio?

    Quote Originally Posted by oznabrag View Post
    I want Warren in the Senate.
    she's a loser running for pres anyways

    rightly or wrongly the republicans have defined her on the national stage
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

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    Default Re: De Blasio?

    Not that I want to pile on - but the OP is pretty much what Tom & I have been saying on other threads. Do we expect (or even want) Democratic Socialism? No - we'd just like to see the Dem. party move back left some.

    Get rid of Citizens United, work on health care for all, renewable energy, better health care, and last but not least - not be peons of the corporations.
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

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    Default Re: De Blasio?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pless View Post
    so, yet another hillary thread. . .

    <sigh>
    Oz has chosen to take it there. I wish we could simply talk about the present & future myself.
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

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    Default Re: De Blasio?

    De Blasio can have a positive impact on the process but I don't see him leaving NYC.

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    Default Re: De Blasio?

    Fwiw. Iíve never seen oz as a Hillary apologist.
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

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    Default Re: De Blasio?

    The 'Republican' Party has dragged the Democrats so far right that they are not connecting with Democrats, anymore.
    Eh? Evidence, please? My first reaction is that this is intelligent-sounding nonsense. How specifically has the Democratic party moved farther right over the past, say, 25 years? On which issues have their positions gotten more conservative, and in which ways exactly ? Yes, Bill Clinton and his centrist (for the time) 'third way' stuff in the early '90s might be seen as a move to the right, although I think it might better be described as emphasizing one wing of the party over another, and trying to connect with centrist or even center-right voters. But the Republicans since that time have vanished over the starboard horizon, and I'd say the Democrats, if anything, have moved a bit left, as has much of the country.

    Now, Mr. DeBlasio wants the party to move further left. I might even agree with him. But claiming the Democrats have moved right? I don't think this is true.
    Last edited by Keith Wilson; 02-04-2019 at 10:03 AM.
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    Default Re: De Blasio?

    Quote Originally Posted by Garret View Post
    Not that I want to pile on - but the OP is pretty much what Tom & I have been saying on other threads. Do we expect (or even want) Democratic Socialism? No - we'd just like to see the Dem. party move back left some.

    Get rid of Citizens United, work on health care for all, renewable energy, better health care, and last but not least - not be peons of the corporations.
    I have begun to believe that Democracy and Capitalism are incompatible. We have been conditioned to believe that Capitalism is our political system in the US, and it has become a self-fulfilling prophecy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Garret View Post
    Oz has chosen to take it there. I wish we could simply talk about the present & future myself.
    Really? Here's Post #2:
    Quote Originally Posted by WI-Tom View Post
    Funny. This is pretty much exactly what some of us Democratic voters have been saying on other threads, suggesting that a Hilary-type centrist is not the answer, and I don't remember you (and many others) being too open to this argument then. Nice to see there is some common ground starting to form.

    Tom
    If y'all wanna talk about Hillary (with two ells, BTW), there's plenty of other threads to use to that end.

    Plenty.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian McColgin View Post
    De Blasio can have a positive impact on the process but I don't see him leaving NYC.
    If elected, he will not serve?


    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pless View Post
    Fwiw. I’ve never seen oz as a Hillary apologist.
    Nor have I been.



    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Wilson View Post
    Eh? Evidence, please? My first reaction is that this is intelligent-sounding nonsense. How specifically has the Democratic party moved farther right over the past, say, 25 years? On which issues have their positions gotten more conservative, and in which ways exactly ? Yes, Bill Clinton and his centrist (for the time) 'third way' stuff in the early '90s might be seen as a move to the right, although I think it might better be described as emphasizing one wing of the party over another, and trying to connect with centrist or even center-right voters. But the Republicans since that time have vanished over the starboard horizon, and I'd say the Democrats, if anything, have moved a bit left, as has much of the country.

    Now, Mr. DeBlasio wants the party to move further left. I might even agree with him. But claiming the Democrats have moved right? I don't think this is true.
    Disappeared over the starboard horizon? If only!

    If my opinions are intelligent nonsense to your ears, then at least I sound intelligent to you.

    I'm OK with that.

    My position is that the US voters who have historically looked to the Ds to represent their interests have moved Left, but the party that claims to represent them has moved Right.

    The Neoliberal Democratic Party stance seems to be to give lip service to whatever progressive item is trending, but backing the corporate interest, when it gets right down to it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pless View Post
    Originally Posted by oznabrag

    I want Warren in the Senate.
    she's a loser running for pres anyways

    rightly or wrongly the republicans have defined her on the national stage
    Harris is a loser for Pres, Castro had the most boring, rambling announcement speech in recorded history, the 'bench' really is pretty short.

    I recall very clearly being in a bar in 2006, and seeing O'Bama speak on TV. I remarked later that evening that Obama would be the next President, and some redneck yahoo bowed up on me because he had never heard of the Junior Senator from Illinois, and thought I had said 'Osama'.

    IMO, the only one so far that has what it takes is de Blasio.
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    Default Re: De Blasio?

    My position is that the US voters who have historically looked to the Ds to represent their interests have moved Left, but the party that claims to represent them has moved Right.
    I don't disagree with you that on some issues Democratic voters - in fact, the whole US public except the farthest-right 20 or 30% - have moved left somewhat, particularly on social issues.

    Where I do disagree pretty strongly is the claim the Democratic party has moved right at all in the past 20 years. As far as I can tell, this is completely false. So convince me. On what issues have they moved right? What were their positions before, and what are they now?
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

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    Default Re: De Blasio?

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Wilson View Post
    I don't disagree with you that on some issues Democratic voters - in fact, the whole US public except the farthest-right 20 or 30% - have moved left somewhat, particularly on social issues.

    Where I do disagree pretty strongly is the claim the Democratic party has moved right at all in the past 20 years. As far as I can tell, this is completely false. So convince me. On what issues have they moved right? What were their positions before, and what are they now?
    Don't get lost in the details, Keith.

    I don't require that we have the same opinion.

    What I want to know is how you feel about de Blasio.

    Here's the clip I was commenting on (remember this is Maher, and there may be 'offensive language!):

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    Default Re: De Blasio?

    Reality is the sum of all the details. My issue was with the idea that the Democratic party has gotten more conservative. I think this is dead wrong. But it's quite a separate issue from where the party should go from here, or what policies would be best for the country.

    I'm not sure about DeBlasio, but my guess is that he won't play at all well outside of NYC.
    Last edited by Keith Wilson; 02-04-2019 at 12:24 PM.
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
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    Default Re: De Blasio?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian McColgin View Post
    De Blasio can have a positive impact on the process but I don't see him leaving NYC.
    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Wilson View Post
    Reality is the sum of all the details. My issue was with the idea that the Democratic party has gotten more conservative. I think this is dead wrong. But it's quite a separate issue from where the party should go from here, or what policies would be best for the country.

    I'm not sure about DeBlasio;but my guess is that he won't play at all well outside of NYC.
    I think that what de Blasio has going for him is that he understands the Morons only control about 30% of the vote.

    The rest of the country has seen what the Moron King has done to this country, and we're ready to abandon our fear of offending those stunted imbeciles.

    The fear is the result of decades of right wing bluster and bullspit, and it is based in nothing.

    People want what the Progressives are selling, no matter where they live.
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    Default Re: De Blasio?

    Wow.
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    Default Re: De Blasio?

    Quote Originally Posted by Garret View Post
    Not that I want to pile on - but the OP is pretty much what Tom & I have been saying on other threads.
    Fine.

    Do you think de Blasio articulates that platform well enough?



    Quote Originally Posted by Garret View Post
    Do we expect (or even want) Democratic Socialism?
    Well, we've seen what Democratic Capitalism looks like in the final stages of strangling its host, soooo . . .


    Quote Originally Posted by Garret View Post
    No - we'd just like to see the Dem. party move back left some.
    Tell it to Keith.



    Quote Originally Posted by Garret View Post
    Get rid of Citizens United, work on health care for all, renewable energy, better health care, and last but not least - not be peons of the corporations.
    I agree, and I think pretty much all those ideas poll very favorably. It's a platform that should be a sure-fire winner.

    I think de Blasio is the first contender I have seen who has a chance to pull it off.
    Rattling the teacups.

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    Default Re: De Blasio?

    Quote Originally Posted by Garret View Post
    Get rid of Citizens United, work on health care for all, renewable energy, better health care, and last but not least - not be peons of the corporations.


    Quote Originally Posted by oznabrag View Post
    I agree, and I think pretty much all those ideas poll very favorably. It's a platform that should be a sure-fire winner.
    Once again--without so much as a mention of "she who must not be named"--it's nice to see some common ground. Welcome aboard.

    Tom
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    Default Re: De Blasio?

    I'd still like examples showing how the Democratic party has supposedly moved right over the past 20 years. If you can't think of at least a couple without much effort, maybe you ought to rethink the idea. I say it's nonsense. The Democrats have not moved right. Now, maybe Obama was too willing to compromise and try to work with increasingly-intransigent and extreme Republicans; that would be plausible, whether I agree or not. And the party accommodates a pretty wide range of opinion, with various parts of it having more power at various times. But coming close to nominating a fellow from Vermont who calls himself a 'democratic socialist' is not the way a party moving to the right behaves.

    Note that it's quite a different question than whether the party should move to the left, or whether policies generally considered farther left would be good for the party electorally, or good for the country.

    Get rid of Citizens United, work on health care for all, renewable energy, better health care, and last but not least - not be peons of the corporations.
    And I'd agree with all of this. Overturning Citizens United is not going to be easy at all, but we need to do it. And you do member that the Clintons pushed hard for universal health care in the early '90s, and got shot down by increasingly-far-right Republicans, right? To accomplish things, will is not enough; you need power too.
    Last edited by Keith Wilson; 02-05-2019 at 08:47 AM.
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    Default Re: De Blasio?

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Wilson View Post
    I'd still like examples showing how the Democratic party has supposedly moved right over the past 20 years. If you can't think of at least a couple without much effort, maybe you ought to rethink the idea. I say it's nonsense.
    almost unilateral democratic support for homeland security
    ^ same same in support for the war in iraq
    inabilty of the obama administration to hold anyone, not a single person accountable for the financial crisis
    the fact that a democratic congress and president actually bailed out the banks and ****ing eh gave the bankers who created the problem bonuses with bailout money
    obama's extension of the bush era tax cuts - pure douchebaggeriness
    the aca was a sellout to the insurance industry which are the main problem with delivering health care to americans
    Last edited by Paul Pless; 02-05-2019 at 08:55 AM.
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

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    Default Re: De Blasio?

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Wilson View Post
    Reality is the sum of all the details. My issue was with the idea that the Democratic party has gotten more conservative. I think this is dead wrong. But it's quite a separate issue from where the party should go from here, or what policies would be best for the country.

    I'm not sure about DeBlasio, but my guess is that he won't play at all well outside of NYC.
    Keith again lightly skins the politician, thier populist talking point and dismissible ideas then tosses them into the conservitive cold water bucket for the reality pruning process. Universal health, environmental addresses, climate change policies and pro labor that will cost the 1 percent will be ultimately discouraged by the leading democrats who enjoy campaign financing and are part of the 1 percent.

    Deblasio goes nowhere beyond the boroughs. West coast has thier own Californian versions of faux progressives viable enough to suck the oxygen out of any serious and expensive progressive agenda Deblasio offers.
    i am just a clown and the world is a joke.

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    Default Re: De Blasio?

    Ted, one could get irritated when you make up something I didn't say, and attack it as if I did. I am not a conservative. I support every one of those polices you mentioned. Claiming someone is a 'faux progressive' when they don't both promise the moon and deliver it by next Thursday is a bit unjust.

    But again, progress requires good ideas, the will, and the power to implement them. Idealistic talk by itself does nothing. Ideological purity and $2.79 might get you a Starbucks latte.
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

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    Default Re: De Blasio?

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Wilson View Post
    Ted, one could get irritated when you make up something I didn't say, and attack it as if I did. I am not a conservative. I support every one of those polices you mentioned. Claiming someone is a 'faux progressive' when they don't both promise the moon and deliver it by next Thursday is a bit unjust.

    But again, progress requires good ideas, the will, and the power to implement them. Idealistic talk by itself does nothing. Ideological purity and $2.79 might get you a Starbucks latte.
    if you thought I was making you a conservitive - I was not. I beleive you are the forums resident political center left pragmatist. I was noting your uncanny ability to pair back the dreams due to the political reality. It is this very content you provide which throttles the aspirations of us aspiring and often over reaching progressives who would want to embrace a rosier big picture.

    To me a faux progressive would rather argue in favor of transgender politics and yet ignore progressive tax policy which actually tax the wealthy and creates sustainable middle class economic growth, universal health care and educational opportunities
    Last edited by Ted Hoppe; 02-05-2019 at 09:43 AM.
    i am just a clown and the world is a joke.

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    Default Re: De Blasio?

    To me a faux progressive would rather argue in favor of transgender politics and yet ignore progressive tax policy . . .
    Ah, I see what you mean; sorry , I misunderstood. I agree, then. That's probably the way to win primaries in California and lose the election.
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

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    Default Re: De Blasio?

    Quote Originally Posted by WI-Tom View Post
    [/I]

    [/I][/COLOR]

    Once again--without so much as a mention of "she who must not be named"--it's nice to see some common ground. Welcome aboard.

    Tom
    On to the ignore list with you.
    Rattling the teacups.

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