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Thread: New Boat Shop - The "Wordless Workshop"

  1. #1
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    Default New Boat Shop - The "Wordless Workshop"


  2. #2
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    Default Re: New Boat Shop - The "Wordless Workshop"

    Last edited by BrianM; 01-18-2019 at 06:26 PM.

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    Default Re: New Boat Shop - The "Wordless Workshop"

    Okay.. some words.... How do you take 10 degrees twist out of a 13' long 6" x 8"?????






    Last edited by BrianM; 01-18-2019 at 06:27 PM.

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    Default Re: New Boat Shop - The "Wordless Workshop"

    Last edited by BrianM; 01-18-2019 at 06:23 PM.

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    Default Re: New Boat Shop - The "Wordless Workshop"

    See.. being a Sea Scout DID pay off......... one manning an 85lb timber...




    Last edited by BrianM; 01-18-2019 at 06:54 PM.

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    Default Re: New Boat Shop - The "Wordless Workshop"

    Propa' fastening....


    Last edited by BrianM; 01-18-2019 at 06:54 PM.

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    Default Re: New Boat Shop - The "Wordless Workshop"

    4" x 6" Purlins... 64 of them... lot's of lifting and lagging.....

    https://photos.app.goo.gl/hU82fv8MVMhJvRbZ6

  8. #8
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    Default Re: New Boat Shop - The "Wordless Workshop"

    Quote Originally Posted by BrianM View Post
    See.. being a Sea Scout DID pay off......... one manning an 85lb timber...


    Nice! Seems to be quite the collection of barns in your neighborhood.

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    Default Re: New Boat Shop - The "Wordless Workshop"

    I'm surrounded by hundred plus year old Chicken barns.. and a couple of younger but much much bigger Duck "barns"... most are nice to look at.. feel lucky that way

  10. #10
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    Default Re: New Boat Shop - The "Wordless Workshop"

    The photos in posts 4, 5, and 6 didn't come through. Photos in 1, 2, and 3 did.

    Looks like a stout building.
    There's the plan, then there's what actually happens.

    Ben Sebens, RN

    15' Welsford Navigator Inconceivable
    16' W. Simmons Mattinicus double ender ​Matty

  11. #11
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    Default Re: New Boat Shop - The "Wordless Workshop"

    im only getting the first photo and no others

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    Default Re: New Boat Shop - The "Wordless Workshop"

    Quote Originally Posted by flyinwall View Post
    im only getting the first photo and no others
    same here

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    Default Re: New Boat Shop - The "Wordless Workshop"

    But I love the frame.

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    Default Re: New Boat Shop - The "Wordless Workshop"

    Quote Originally Posted by Dusty Yevsky View Post
    same here
    I'm still learning how to use Google Photos.. might be a sharing/not shared problem.. do you get any error message? Naturally I see them

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    Default Re: New Boat Shop - The "Wordless Workshop"

    Nope, just the first picture. If your pictures are behind a password, then it may not work. You might try uploading them straight to the forum, since they have upgraded and now you can do that.
    There's the plan, then there's what actually happens.

    Ben Sebens, RN

    15' Welsford Navigator Inconceivable
    16' W. Simmons Mattinicus double ender ​Matty

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    Default Re: New Boat Shop - The "Wordless Workshop"

    Odd.. I logged out and went back to my post and still do see them....

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    Default Re: New Boat Shop - The "Wordless Workshop"

    Weird. Now I'm seeing them all too. Great project!
    There's the plan, then there's what actually happens.

    Ben Sebens, RN

    15' Welsford Navigator Inconceivable
    16' W. Simmons Mattinicus double ender ​Matty

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    Default Re: New Boat Shop - The "Wordless Workshop"

    It's a once in a lifetime fun one...

    I cleared my cache and cut and pasted again.. guess that works.. anyhow, I put up a YouTube channel to collect all the videos of which these are stills....

    Here's the Channel: "Chicken Slough Boats"....

    https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLpPyHEEbfikkSO7l9WioaXsoMvUf7KSDE
    Last edited by BrianM; 01-18-2019 at 06:51 PM.

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    Default Re: New Boat Shop - The "Wordless Workshop"

    To answer the question from post 2, there is no way to take the twist out. You could plane the twist out, but it’ll continue to twist as it dries. You can just build with it as is. Use winding sticks to sight that the joinery on each end is in the same plane.

  20. #20
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    Default Re: New Boat Shop - The "Wordless Workshop"

    It looks like it's going to be a great shop. What boat are you planning to build in there?

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    Default Re: New Boat Shop - The "Wordless Workshop"

    Quote Originally Posted by John Husky View Post
    To answer the question from post 2, there is no way to take the twist out. You could plane the twist out, but it’ll continue to twist as it dries. You can just build with it as is. Use winding sticks to sight that the joinery on each end is in the same plane.
    Hi John,
    I managed to get quite a bit of the twist out just to align the faces to the adjoining post by using that big lever arm. The brackets were located after I put the tie-beam into preload, drilled and bolted with 1/2" lags. I wanted it to look better, but realize it may creep back over time.

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    Default Re: New Boat Shop - The "Wordless Workshop"

    Quote Originally Posted by MoritzSchwarzer View Post
    It looks like it's going to be a great shop. What boat are you planning to build in there?
    Many small boats is the plan. Designs I've wanted to play with and techniques I've yet to try including:


    1. New York Sloop
    2. S.F. Bay scaled down Scow Sloop (8' 6" beam.. max for legal trailering)
    3. Beachcomber Alpha Dory
    4. More Bank Dories... (lap-straking.. I've done board and batten)
    5. Many Skiffs for a Livery Business I've been kicking around
    6. A Shanty Boat or more (see Livery idea).
    7. Experiments with Cold Molding, but using PVA glues instead of Epoxy



    I have been fortunate enough to find some Sawyers who have plentiful supply of Douglas Fir, mainly from Northern California. With all of our fires, and the prospects of even more each fall, tree clearing is on the up tick all over the state. It's not the finest quality, but I'm setting my expectations on performance and durability accordingly. Building trailer-able boats only also helps control the long term storage environment as rain water seems to be the most destructive force on lumber without powerful decay resistance.

  23. #23
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    Default Re: New Boat Shop - The "Wordless Workshop"

    Building with second growth timber is a great idea, and something we need to think more about as a community. A boat built of 2nd growth doug fir and cedar might average a 30-40 year life, with old growth it might be 50-60 years given the same level of care. For the right boats in the right circumstances, 2nd growth is a much better option. Building a new boat every 4 decades out of completely renewable and biodegradable material seems much better than either destroying the virgin forests, or building of permanent plastic. Not to derail your thread...

    A scaled down SF Scow is an awesome idea BTW, and would be a great fit for salvaged DF logs.

  24. #24
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    Default Re: New Boat Shop - The "Wordless Workshop"

    This is the "James McKenna". Bob Cleek and fill in on her local history I'm sure, but what I know is was specifically designed putting speed up on the list of requirements.



    I understand scaling a vessel down requires some Engineering as stability may drop disproportionately to beam and other parameters.




    Looking for a trailer-able size so at 8'6" beam, this will probably be a 22'-24' long boat without bowsprit. I'll go with a Gaff Sloop rig to keep
    her simple and easily single-handed. Scows were never known for deep holds, so this will be a day sailer I'm sure.

    Tabernacle for the mast and reefing bowsprit would also be in order and fabricated then galvanized fittings would make me smile.

    This is the boat I was considering building using Double (or Triple) Diagonal planking using thin fir with fabric and bedding between the layers.
    The one concession to "modern" materials I think that makes sense is to use a fabric that won't rot out.

    This would NOT be an epoxy glued hull. I wonder what the "state of the art" in fabrics for this sort of application might be?
    Attached Images Attached Images

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    Default Re: New Boat Shop - The "Wordless Workshop"

    Quote Originally Posted by J.Madison View Post
    Building with second growth timber is a great idea, and something we need to think more about as a community. A boat built of 2nd growth doug fir and cedar might average a 30-40 year life, with old growth it might be 50-60 years given the same level of care. For the right boats in the right circumstances, 2nd growth is a much better option. Building a new boat every 4 decades out of completely renewable and biodegradable material seems much better than either destroying the virgin forests, or building of permanent plastic. Not to derail your thread...
    A scaled down SF Scow is an awesome idea BTW, and would be a great fit for salvaged DF logs.
    Thanks for your support on this subject. I certainly believe ones labor is the most precious expense in building a non trailerable boat. Since you have to leave it in the weather and elements, use the best materials you can afford which may mean old growth fir. If you can store your recreational boat under cover, the performance demands for durability are less severe. This "window" I think allows the use more related to what you have easy access to. Plywood gets you on the water faster, but I still believe solid lumber is the most fun to work with and most rewarding in general.

  26. #26
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    Default Re: New Boat Shop - The "Wordless Workshop"

    I'm not sure how well a scaled-down scow would sail. You may recall "Squarehead," which was restored by Ned Martin in Pelican Harbor, Sausalito. She was probably the last S.F. scow ever built in the original line. She was done by Anderson and Christophani in 1923, I believe. She was about 24' and carried a gaff sloop rig. She has a cabin that extended to the rails which provided full headroom. She was designed as a yacht for a doctor in S.F. it was said, I don't know if she was originally built with an engine, but Ned put a big "one lunger" Hicks in her which Donny Arques gave him. Donny, who was a marine "hoarder" par excellance, had it new, still in the crate. That was in the early seventies. She plowed along with the Hicks, but she didn't sail worth a darn. The sail rig was more something to play with than get anywhere with. She was sold and I lost track of her. She was a very historic vessel, being built by one of the scow-building yards, but not particularly practical.

    The dynamics of the scows are basically enough weight to dig in, overcome by enough sail to get them going. A small-scale one probably doesn't have the mass, no the ability to carry enough sail, to plow through the chop that's common on the Bay. Somebody can do the displacement calculations and see what a small one would look like, though. Sucher's book, Simplified Boatbuilding (https://www.amazon.com/Simplified-Bo.../dp/039303173X) has plans for a nice smaller-sized S.F. scow sloop yacht. It's probably not trailerable, though.

    Those plans for the McKenna are from HAMMS, correct? I have the HAMMS plans (such as they are) for Albertine. I ordered them after I researched the results of the old Master Mariner's races before the turn of the last century and found that she was consistently the fastest scow in the races back then. She had a narrower beam than many and narrower ends with plenty of rocker. She wasn't a "cigar box," like Alma.

  27. #27
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    Default Re: New Boat Shop - The "Wordless Workshop"

    William Garden's Tillicum has always caught my eye, though its bigger than you propose. . He seemed to think she would be a good sailer. With all the initial stability, I would think a scow could be a rather lively performer until a good chop kicks up. A big centerboard is needed for sure.



    This schooner is absolutely perfect for someone with a wood mizer and a pile of windfall logs. Keel, 10x6, frames 4x6, CB 4" thick, etc..

    But we're pretty far off topic now...

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    Default Re: New Boat Shop - The "Wordless Workshop"

    A new scaffold added to the group.. I need to be able to drive in 12" lag bolts through the top of the 6" purlins into the trusses. The peak is 23' off the deck, so I need to stand on a platform 19' - 20' up..

    Still need to add more diagonals on the "ladder" side, then build my deck on top. A 6' steel modular scaffold unit will then be stacked on this platform as needed to reach the top. I'd LOVE to have a scissor lift but it's hard to justify renting one for a month when I can only work weekends and an hour or two in daylight each evening.


  29. #29
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    Default Re: New Boat Shop - The "Wordless Workshop"

    Here's an example of the Fir I found locally from the Fire related tree clearing... It's fairly wide ring count... at least there's no sap wood and it pretty clear.. fine for structural ... 6" x 6" x 11' for $50, and he's got huge piles of these...



  30. #30
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    Default Re: New Boat Shop - The "Wordless Workshop"

    https://photos.app.goo.gl/CyR9Qj6Uo6GiDAhj8

    Breaks in the rain are immediately exploited...

  31. #31
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    Default Re: New Boat Shop - The "Wordless Workshop"

    Squarehead is still with us.
    Berthed at Owl Harbor in Seven Mile Slough she still has the squarehead Hicks engine, and the last I heard was slowly being rerigged.

  32. #32
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    Default Re: New Boat Shop - The "Wordless Workshop"

    No photos no worky. Would love to see them. Just upload them to the forum.

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    Default Re: New Boat Shop - The "Wordless Workshop"


  34. #34
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    Default Re: New Boat Shop - The "Wordless Workshop"

    SquareHead.jpg

    Wonder if that's Squarehead in upper right side or just another houseboat... I have relatives in Lodi and it's practically next door to them.. will drop by this summer.

    I did have a full tour of the boat back in 2003 when it was tied up in the San Rafael Yacht Harbor, and for sale. Never took photos of the boat so I don't remember much about her hull form.. if she was more "Alma", (rectangular cement trough, bottom planking was athwartship), or if she had any speed potential like some of the scows. The big one lunger dominated the interior and someone had painted a mural on it's flywheel..

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