Trailering a Micro?

[Etdbob]

After having built two open skiffs I find myself hankering for something with a cabin, but nothing to big, mind you. I've looked at a great many designs and as of yet cannot decide on any one particular boat.

One design that appeals to me is the Bolger Micro. An odd boat, to be sure, but they seem to work well and be easy enough to build, considering that the keel weights can be cast in sections. As a long time bullet caster I am not unfamiliar with working with molten lead and have several hundred pounds on hand, so the keel doesn't worry me.

What makes me pause about the Micro is having to trailer something like this. That's something I know zero about, apart from the fact that it must naturally be easier to launch and recover a flat bottomed boat from a trailer than something with a deep keel.

I'd also like to know where that long mast goes when it's down, and how hard it is to rig one for sailing. Can one man raise that mast alone?
So anyway, I would appreciate hearing from folks who may have direct experience, if possible.

Thanks!

[Hugh MacD]

I think ease of trailering something like that is really dependant on the trailer setup. Easy-peasy with the right setup. If you google "bolger micro" and look at "images" there's a shot of one under power with the spars lying on deck in nice cradles. They'r really not much longer than the boat.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&sour...47599971463429

[Thorne]

Trailering wouldn't be too different from trailering anything that weight. LAUNCHING and BEACHING, however , are a very different story.

If you like pulling up to shore or launching on shallow ramps or beaches, pick a different design. I remember seeing an Old Shoe at Newberry Crater in Oregon, and it took 7 strong men to get the boat away from the shore, several of them swimming.

[BillP]

Get an old fashioned tilt trailer if you want to launch/retrieve where float ons can't. You can still float on/off if the ramps are good. Unfortunately finding a true tilt trailer isn't that easy anymore.

Yes, one person can step/unstep a small mast...I'm 70 yrs old x 190 lbs and do a 20' x 2400lb sailboat's alum mast on tabernacle...without using special mast raising gizmos. It pushes my limits but I do it without help. The mast is dismounted and centered on the boat for trailering.

If you need a mold for casting a keel here's a thought. I made a mold in the ground for a 32' sailboat's bolt on ballast. Dug the shape, watered and packed the sand until smooth, compacted and hard. Then used a plumbers pot and propane torch to melt the lead. Did this in one sitting...which if memory is right was 650 or 850 lbs. It came out very smooth consider being poured in sand and holes were drilled for bolts. I also reload and it's not much different other than large poundage.

One other comment. Bolger boats aren't exactly known for stellar sailing performance when compared to others. It may pay to look around at other easy to build designs. Please no hate mail from Bolger lovers.

[Nicholas Scheuer]

EMPHATICALLY not so! We cruised an Edey & Duff Dovekie 12 years, then a Shearwater 18 years (both Bolger designs) extensively all over the USA, including waters on all three coasts and Canada, beaching both boats FREQUENTLY and having ZERO problems doing that with my wife (certainly no "Brunhilda") and children for crew. I have very likely logged something like 75,000 virtually trouble free miles towing these two boats, in addition to our present Albin-25 Diesel Motor Cruiser. Micro is NOTHING if not eminently trailerable. Since you seem to have no experience trailering cruising sailboats, I suggest hanging out on the Trailer Sailer website.

If Micro's acomodations suit you, I'd heartily recommend the design.


QUOTE=Thorne;5785022]Trailering wouldn't be too different from trailering anything that weight. LAUNCHING and BEACHING, however , are a very different story.

If you like pulling up to shore or launching on shallow ramps or beaches, pick a different design. I remember seeing an Old Shoe at Newberry Crater in Oregon, and it took 7 strong men to get the boat away from the shore, several of them swimming.[/QUOTE]

[Andrew2]

The Micro draws 18", so I have sketched out a piggy back trailer with the boat on a dolly that has just positive floatation. This keeps the main trailer out of the water and the dolly is launched and recovered with a winch. The suspension on the main trailer 'kneels' so the ramps are only just off the ground. Only prob with this, is that home builts are no longer legal here, so I might get it approved in UK, then import it back here.
A2

[Nicholas Scheuer]

Maybe you wouldn't get "hate mail" were you to try sailing a couple Bolger boats and separating those exhibiting "stellar performance" from others having other strengths. Utilizing lifting foil leeboards my 28' Shearwater yawl would sail close hauled over comparatively smooth water making NO LEEWAY. How many boats can you identify capable of doing the same?

[Woxbox]

18" draft qualifies as a shoal draft boat in my book. No problem to trailer.

[earling2]

"One other comment. Bolger boats aren't exactly known for stellar sailing performance when compared to others. It may pay to look around at other easy to build designs. Please no hate mail from Bolger lovers."

Good grief. You get a pass if you can relate direct, first hand, quantifiable experience, specify which exact "Bolger Boats" (700 to choose from, probably half are sailboats) and authoritatively refute people (like me, for one) with first hand experience of a few Bolger boats that sailed exceptionally well. (Former Black Skimmer builder/owner, current Dovekie owner).

[BillP]

EMPHATICALLY not so! We cruised an Edey & Duff Dovekie 12 years, then a Shearwater 18 years (both Bolger designs) extensively all over the USA, including waters on all three coasts and Canada, beaching both boats FREQUENTLY and having ZERO problems doing that with my wife (certainly no "Brunhilda") and children for crew. I have very likely logged something like 75,000 virtually trouble free miles towing these two boats, in addition to our present Albin-25 Diesel Motor Cruiser. Micro is NOTHING if not eminently trailerable. Since you seem to have no experience trailering cruising sailboats, I suggest hanging out on the Trailer Sailer website.

If Micro's acomodations suit you, I'd heartily recommend the design.


QUOTE=Thorne;5785022]Trailering wouldn't be too different from trailering anything that weight. LAUNCHING and BEACHING, however , are a very different story.

If you like pulling up to shore or launching on shallow ramps or beaches, pick a different design. I remember seeing an Old Shoe at Newberry Crater in Oregon, and it took 7 strong men to get the boat away from the shore, several of them swimming.

[/QUOTE]
Want to talk trash to me?

You need to reread. I never mentioned a micro being difficult to trailer. It would be a piece of cake with the smallest car. I commented that a true tilt trailer is easier where a float on doesn't work. Evidently you have no clue with all that vast experience about that and never launched on un-improved ramps or off seawalls 3' above the water. I've launched 100s of times off seawalls and on ramps where it was too shallow, too steep, wheels drop off, etc for float ons. This is common in Florida and you have to carefully pick ramps in the keys with a float on...but its no concern with a tilt...and if you don't know the difference a tilt isn't the same as a break frame.

There are always design exceptions. Bolger has a few and Dovekie is one but not the typical Bolger. Don't try to tell me it has stellar upwind performance unless comparing with another Bolger.

You demean me for "lack" of experience? Stuff this Mr Experience..first boat owned was in 1956. I've towed boats since the mid 1960s, including a 32' ketch from San Diego to Florida...1000 lb tongue weight. Add +- 2k miles a yr for about 35 yrs trailering small boats up to 24'. I won't post all the boats I've owned but it's around 70 with 1/3 of them being 25'-42'. The current count is 8 boats/3 trailers (live on the water with a boat house/lift)..10 yrs live aboard...2 yrs island cruising...short term boated the keys, Florida coast and Bahamas many times...Merchant Marines 1968-69. Probably more than 100k miles on the road and water.

Regardless, sailing a bunch of miles in Bolger boats doesn't mean they are good performers or that other better designed shoal draft boat don't out perform them. Didn't Bolger say NOT to build his Black Skimmer due to lack of performance? An LFH Meadowlark sails circles around a Black Gauntlet on any point...told to me when sailing on one with the owner builder (the actual boat shown in Bolgers book). He didn't know how bad it sailed until the Meadowlark showed up 2 yrs later. Looking over the sides those external chine logs scrubbed speed and made whirlpools like high current swirls around a dock piling. Looked like a bad idea then and still does. No wonder they aren't seen on many boats. Easy to build but worst case chine design for low drag. Their small redeeming factor is meager leeway prevention with boards up. More than one or two Bolgers have that external chine log. For that matter very few totally flat bottom slab sided cb or lee board boats sail as well as other refined designs.

I say go a Bolger it if it makes you feel good but other easy build designs are out there that give better sailing performance...upwind, downwind, whatever.

[BillP]

"One other comment. Bolger boats aren't exactly known for stellar sailing performance when compared to others. It may pay to look around at other easy to build designs. Please no hate mail from Bolger lovers."

Good grief. You get a pass if you can relate direct, first hand, quantifiable experience, specify which exact "Bolger Boats" (700 to choose from, probably half are sailboats) and authoritatively refute people (like me, for one) with first hand experience of a few Bolger boats that sailed exceptionally well. (Former Black Skimmer builder/owner, current Dovekie owner).

I don't need a "pass". Your idea of "sailed exceptionally well" isn't the same definition as mine. Since you are one of the few claiming Bolgers have stellar performance, it would be helpful if you describe what boats you have sailed side by side against a few Bolgers similar to a Micro in direct comparison. Sailing a Micro against something else would most helpful to the OP.

[skaraborgcraft]

Easy to get on and off a trailer will depend on ramps and trailer set up, but fair to say ones with deeper draft often require r extension to the trailer on shallow ramps. I wont get into the debate on performance. I will offer Michalaks own alternative to Micro, as indeed it was the keel and draft that HE viewed as being the weakest part of the design, for a trailer sailer.

http://www.duckworksbbs.com/product-p/jm-musicbox2.htm




There are modern performance alternatives with more complex builds, but it does depend on your priorities of ease of build , cost and performance expectations.

[Chris249]

It's great that people love their Bolgers. However, it's impossible to find actual data showing them to be anything but significantly slower than standard cruiser/racers of similar length. The much-vaunted Flying Tadpole II Light Schooner, for example, is rated only 2% quicker than the much older, much smaller Hartley TS16 and the same speed as a Catalina 25. The only PHRF number on the net (AFAIK) for a Martha Jane is an amazingly slow 425- two minutes a mile slower than a Montgomery 15!!!!! That converts to a lower speed than an Optimist. The Dovekie has a Portsmouth rating that puts it between a Montgomery 15 and a Sandpiper catboat in speed. The Potter guys in San Francisco have an annual small cruiser's challenge and most times, the Micro seems to be just 2/3 as fast as the Potter 15s.

Sure, some times some of those Bolgers may pass other boats but by the same token, I have passed Porsches on my bicycle and passed 18 Foot Skiffs on a 420. None of the above means that a Bolger is not a great boat, just as I feel that my Subaru Forester is a great car for me and my '77 VW Campervan was a great car for me. But surely, the fact that a certain type is slower than average should be accepted and not ignored?

[Chris249]

I don't need a "pass". Your idea of "sailed exceptionally well" isn't the same definition as mine. Since you are one of the few claiming Bolgers have stellar performance, it would be helpful if you describe what boats you have sailed side by side against a few Bolgers similar to a Micro in direct comparison. Sailing a Micro against something else would most helpful to the OP.

Of course, sailing side by side or beating a few boats on a few occasions isn't conclusive since we don't know how well the boats were being sailed, the state of their bottoms, the sails they were carrying, etc.

[skaraborgcraft]

^ I do not know how these "ratings" work, but i would find it hard that a Montgomery 15 would "out perform" (whatever that means) a boat like the Martha Jane with a significantly longer waterline, and be stated as slower than an optimist. Its not as if someone looking for a shallow draft weekend cruising boat for 2 that can cook and sleep onboard will even be looking at a Opi. I dont get the relevance.

[Edward Pearson]

I like Micro a lot. I'd love to try one one. Most people wouldn't get it, but I think she'd be worth it. The keel might be an issue for daysailing (it was designed for going off for a week or two) - though ramps in USA and much bigger and better affairs - but it looks to me that Michalak's Music Box 3 is the same but with leeboards and a lifting rudder and uses water ballast under the sole to reduce trailing weight even further. That would make day sailing easier, and you can pick better weather. The keel on Micro gives it a higher AVS I should expect but I think the Music Box 3 might tempt me in reality, or a Blobster for the walk through companionway to the mast and a double chine rather than single chine. That would be a very civilised boat for picking up a mooring buoy. Maybe for the same materials a CLC Pocketship. But none would be 'a Bolger': the defining article. I see a Micro as high art though his scantlings look pretty thin on the plans a few decades on, though the way parts like the companion way etc reinforce the thin panelling, shows Bolger's engineering efficiency to reduce unsupported panel length as it progresses. I think most are built with a beefed up bottom panel at least, I think I'd be wondering If I could get a keelson and a bolt or two down into the lead non flooding part of the keel without changing the design. The venting, the foot well that looks to give good ergonomics, protection, access into the boat for gear on the go, the self draining deck, the outboard, tiller solution, internal space Micro is a great work from Bolger. While many see Bolger's single chine boats as 'box boats' most in reality are relatively thin and long, so comparatively loses with chine turbulence can in some cases be recovered with better entry and exit angles. Distribution of displacement volumee follows similar patterns to round bilge boats. Long Micro, if you've got the building space will offer gains without much penalty. A foot or two in LWL recovers losses from a single chine comparatively. The Micro is cute though. If there was a Woodenboat 'cool wall' I think she's be up there. How quickly does your local ramp get deep at the tide point when you'll usually launch? If you were submersing brakes and bearings all the time, you'd just have to figuring in regular maintenance/ grease ports.

[Nicholas Scheuer]

Yes, BillP, indeed I have launched over unimproved shores (no ramp of any sort) and over a 3-ft sea wall.

[Chris249]

^ I do not know how these "ratings" work, but i would find it hard that a Montgomery 15 would "out perform" (whatever that means) a boat like the Martha Jane with a significantly longer waterline, and be stated as slower than an optimist. Its not as if someone looking for a shallow draft weekend cruising boat for 2 that can cook and sleep onboard will even be looking at a Opi. I dont get the relevance.

The ratings are created by committees based on the observed performance of boats during races. As a fairly objective measure they would be more accurate than anecdotes. Actual race results that I can find on the net appear to confirm the slow comparative speed of Bolgers when racing against "conventional" craft like Potter 15s. Some Bolger owners like Lance Gunderson (who wrote here that Bolger sharpies are "slow and not close winded" agree.

The Opti is just about the most popular boat in the world and therefore seems to be a useful measure in terms of speed. Sure, no one is going to choose between a MJ and an Opti, but no one said that you can only measure things by direct comparisons; people will talk of "hailstones as big as golf balls" but that doesn't mean they are going to play golf with hailstones.

Nothing of this means that Bolgers are bad boats or that speed is important, but every boat involves compromises and surely when discussing them, we should be striving for objective information about the strengths and weaknesses of each design.

[Etdbob]

Ah, I didn't mean to open up a can of worms...

I just doubt my ability to make a sophisticated trailer for a keel boat.

Anyway, thanks for all the replies!

[WI-Tom]

Designer Ross Lillistone made an interesting post about the Bolger Micro design a while back:

I think there is a danger in relying on theory alone. Phil Bolger's Micro has been praised for her roomy interior and simple rig, but a lot of people without hands-on experience, label her as being a boat which would not be able to sail out of her own way to windward, due to the boxy hull sections and the long, shallow keel with no centreboard. Well I can tell you that on the same day as the Periwinkle video above was shot (or the day before - I'm not certain) I sailed against Rick's Navigator and a Penobscott 14 in the Micro. To my astonishment, and despite the fact that I was carrying two adult passengers, I was able to overtake both boats hard on the wind. Not only that, but for some reason that I still can't explain, I out-pointed them as well. The only way I can explain it is that Phil Bolger's superb design meant that the leeward chine was doing a lot of work in addition to that done by the keel. I have to say that the water was reasonably flat, and I think that a chop would have worked against the Micro. Remember, Micro has an un-stayed cat-yawl rig, which is notorious for not being a good windward rig. Check out the sail area/displacement ratio for Micro with the original (i.e. small) sail plan.

I definitely agree with your comment about boat design being endlessly fascinating, but I have also learnt over the years that one must be ready for surprises!

Ross Lillistone

Tom

[Edward Pearson]

My 15 x 6ft round bilge boat sails well. In part because its 'round bilge' and Bermudan but in reality I sweated every sail, line, knot, splice, shroud and surface. The summation of knowledge, several months application after I bought it and frankly throwing money at it. I wonder how many Bolger's get to enjoy the same refinement or even get built to plan. One obvious aspect of the ease of construction of a 'box boat' will also be that their owners may prefer not to throw knowledge, application and money at it. It would be interesting to see how well they could be made to go. It appears Ross, who knows what he's doing, got his Micro going very well indeed. 'Old shoe' racing anyone?

There is a modernity and unpretentiousness to Bolger's work. We spend half our lives with very traditional boats trying to figure out why it is the way it is. It was designed a few centuries ago, and the why's got forgotten quite some time back until now nobody remembers. Its nice to see something from a cleaner sheet from a sharp mind.

[skaraborgcraft]

Designer Ross Lillistone made an interesting post about the Bolger Micro design a while back:



Tom

But according to ratings, both the Welsford Navigator and Periwinkle MUST be slower than an Optimist......because an Opi rates faster than a Micro. All those people raving about the performance of Navigator have obviously never sailed in or against an Opi......

[Woxbox]

Much depends upon the proportions regardless of shape. The 110 and 210 are simple plywood box boats, after all.

[FF]

It helps to put good sails on her, and to set them well. I se several youtube video's with Bolger boats with sails that are badly bent on or sheeted or with the topping lift trying to saw it in two. I hope then the boat is fresh and the builder/owner is still learning how to do it.
And for a boat that is frequently trailered I would consider a centreboarder, like Bolgers Chebacco. It is a pleasant sailer. Frank
www.oarandsail.nl

[Woxbox]

I'll be interested to find out how well my current build sails. I did not select the design for speed. I'm going with it for simplicity, practicality and versatility. It's John Harris' Autumn Leaves. None have hit the water yet, so there are no reports on it's performance.

On the plus side, it has only five feet of beam for it's 18.5 feet of length. But it carries about 500 pounds of ballast. It's a slab-sided box boat, not unlike taking a Micro and continuing the sides until they meet at both ends. If that suggests it might be slow, then consider that if it were a few feet longer and a bit lighter, it would look like an International 110 from a fish's perspective. Harris' boats have a reputation for sailing well for their type, so I'm optimistic the minimal beam and clean run will rule more than the boxy sections. We'll see.

But it does not have a fixed keel; twin bilgeboards instead. So getting back to the original question on this thread, it should be very easy to launch and retrieve.

skeleton views.jpg

[WI-Tom]

I am really looking forward to seeing your Autumn Leaves launch. That's a boat with a lot of appeal to me for solo voyaging. Not sure why, as there are prettier boats out there, but it does.

Tom

[Dave Hadfield]

EASY launching occurs when the boat floats when just the trailer wheels are immersed (normal wheels, not tiny ones).

We trailer-sailed for 10 seasons.

You don't want simply trailerable. You want easily-launchable. At ordinary boat ramps.

[swoody126]

Etdbob, i realize your Op specs trailering a Micro however after reading(scanning) this thread i think i'm reading that your build is not set in stone nor begun with...

"Q" have you perused the designs of Jim Michalak ?

http://www.duckworksbbs.com/jim-michalak-s/122.htm

Jim's designs have many of the attributes of Bolger's designs and some of them are improvements on the Bolger's type of boats having better performance along w/ a simple/straight foreward build using common materials

i have enjoyed cruisng alongside several of Jim's designs under some rather sporty conditions and THEY WORK ;-)

many of Jim's designs are powered by lug sails which perform quite well under most all conditions

the lug rigs use shorter masts w/ yards n booms that can all be easily carried on deck and easily set by solo sailors(i'm 70 and well over 200# w/ limited strength)

i am currently finishing out a Michalak AF-3 hull for my own use and building a trailer specially for it that can launch and load from either a nice ramp of from a dirt bank like so many of the Michalak boats i have seen

i'm knot sayin' you need to change your target just sayin' there are other good solutions to the quest my eyes read in the OP

check out the Texas 200 for tales and pics of a flock of boats n sailors who delight in saiing simple boats w/ simple rigs under some rather sporty conditions

http://www.texas200.com/index.html

GOOD LUCK W/ YOUR QUEST

sw

[amish rob]

Etdbob, i realize your Op specs trailering a Micro however after reading(scanning) this thread i think i'm reading that your build is not set in stone nor begun with...

"Q" have you perused the designs of Jim Michalak ?

http://www.duckworksbbs.com/jim-michalak-s/122.htm

Jim's designs have many of the attributes of Bolger's designs and some of them are improvements on the Bolger's type of boats having better performance along w/ a simple/straight foreward build using common materials

i have enjoyed cruisng alongside several of Jim's designs under some rather sporty conditions and THEY WORK ;-)

many of Jim's designs are powered by lug sails which perform quite well under most all conditions

the lug rigs use shorter masts w/ yards n booms that can all be easily carried on deck and easily set by solo sailors(i'm 70 and well over 200# w/ limited strength)

i am currently finishing out a Michalak AF-3 hull for my own use and building a trailer specially for it that can launch and load from either a nice ramp of from a dirt bank like so many of the Michalak boats i have seen

i'm knot sayin' you need to change your target just sayin' there are other good solutions to the quest my eyes read in the OP

check out the Texas 200 for tales and pics of a flock of boats n sailors who delight in saiing simple boats w/ simple rigs under some rather sporty conditions

http://www.texas200.com/index.html

GOOD LUCK W/ YOUR QUEST

sw

Wish I’d known. Would have give ya a heck of a deal on the orange boat. I’ll launch and use her a few times, but she’s just gonna be too big for me to manhandle, after all.

Peace,
Robert

[swoody126]

Wish I’d known. Would have give ya a heck of a deal on the orange boat. I’ll launch and use her a few times, but she’s just gonna be too big for me to manhandle, after all.

Peace,
Robert

i've been known to drive at least that far for a good boat

and still might would ;-)

sw

[amish rob]

i've been known to drive at least that far for a good boat

and still might would ;-)

sw

Haha. I meant MINE, not a good one.
I just ain’t gonna be able to go off alone for days safely, so it’s better she go get used. She’s made for it. I’ll be sticking with the punts, pirogues, and proas for day sailing, and poling, and wee rowboats for occasional overnights. Plus, I can always camp cruise a few days in the Sneakeasy, if my driver will drive me. I mean, it’s HER boat, not mine...

Peace,
Robert

[swoody126]

Robert, i'll have to admit a growing fondness for vessels i can manhandle solo

nobody wants to play any more

so... i'm stuck w/ just me n the dog ;-)

that's why i focus'd on the AF-3

only 300#±(specs said 250# butt they always lie) and lotsa rocker so i can spin her as kneaded

sw

[amish rob]

Robert, i'll have to admit a growing fondness for vessels i can manhandle solo

nobody wants to play any more

so... i'm stuck w/ just me n the dog ;-)

that's why i focus'd on the AF-3

only 300#±(specs said 250# butt they always lie) and lotsa rocker so i can spin her as kneaded

sw

Not that. When healthy I can easily lift either end clear of the trailer. Three people can lift and carry the dry boat.

I had an episode this summer which left me unable to move, again. The notion of that happening and me going overboard, or being up some lonely creek somewhere is just too not okay. My orders were strict and clear about my future plans.

Which, I have been building her SPECIFICALLY to go on solo trips. Hahaha. Well. I’ll take her out a few times in company, and then change course to another somewhat to spend days on/in. Or spend short overnights closer to home, passerby, and assistance. I can yell pretty loud. Hahaha. No shortage of wee, goofy “wooden” “boats” here.

Peace,
Robert

[Etdbob]

Etdbob, i realize your Op specs trailering a Micro however after reading(scanning) this thread i think i'm reading that your build is not set in stone nor begun with...

Thanks for all the replies!

Yes indeed, I have not begun to build. In fact, I can't. I'm snow shoeing in and out of my homestead for the next few months, no way to haul up building supplies. I do have a stock of 2x4s and such, and could begin on frames....If I could finally pick one design to concentrate on.

I do like the Micro, and the lead casting doesn't put me off because of my experience there, but all my boats are car-toppers and I have zero idea of how to go about trailering something, hence this thread.

I have indeed looked at Jim Michalaks designs, and have few a sets of his plans. Currently I'm making wooden models of the AF2, the Cubit, and the Bolger Cynthia J. I enjoy making models, it's a way to maintain my sanity when spending winters at home with no electricity, internet or tv ( I'm typing this at a local library during a rare trip off my mountain), and it helps me decide which boat to finally build.

[BillP]

https://tallahassee.craigslist.org/b...785758628.html