Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 123 ... LastLast
Results 36 to 70 of 134

Thread: Casting the Merriman Cleat

  1. #36
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Central Coast, Ca
    Posts
    22,298

    Default Re: Casting the Merriman Cleat

    I have that exact same oven to cook up welding rod and temper small parts!

  2. #37
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    8,379

    Default Re: Casting the Merriman Cleat

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich Jones View Post
    Uh.... is your wife looking for that toaster oven?
    I once used our gas grill to melt some lead. The good wife was not happy!

    Oh no, Rich, quite the oppositet. It was she herself who found the wee cooker, and proud she was how little she paid. I had only just mentioned the need of one a week previous. Go figure.


    Quote Originally Posted by Canoeyawl View Post
    I have that exact same oven to cook up welding rod and temper small parts!

    With that endorsement, Jake, I know we have a keeper.




    The pairs of cores, both different remember, get glued together before being placed in the mold.





    In case you were wondering how strong the cores are, I know I was, here's an illustration. You can put a couple of spring clamps on without them cracking.



  3. #38
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Mountain lakes of Vermont
    Posts
    11,737

    Default Re: Casting the Merriman Cleat

    Ya know, West Marine has plastic cleats. Save you a lot of time and effort.

    Question: Why hollow? To save weight and material? Seems like a lot of work as opposed to solid.
    I was born on a wooden boat that I built myself.

  4. #39
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Location
    Padanaram, MA USA
    Posts
    9,513

    Default Re: Casting the Merriman Cleat

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Ledger View Post
    Oh no, Rich, quite the oppositet. It was she herself who found the wee cooker, and proud she was how little she paid. I had only just mentioned the need of one a week previous. Go figure.
    Maybe SWMBO would get me a small fridge for consumables.

  5. #40
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    8,379

    Default Re: Casting the Merriman Cleat

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich Jones View Post
    Ya know, West Marine has plastic cleats. Save you a lot of time and effort.

    Question: Why hollow? To save weight and material? Seems like a lot of work as opposed to solid.

    What's time and effort to a retired gent, Rich? What kind of a thread do you suppose I could wring out of casting a solid cleat? It'd be a real yawner I can tell you. You need a considerable chance of utter failure to be able to rally the troops to the cause. Besides, I want that "cast a hollow bronze cleat" merit badge.


    Quote Originally Posted by JimConlin View Post
    Maybe SWMBO would get me a small fridge for consumables.


    Fifteen bucks seems to be the going price, Jim. FOB. I'll put in a word.



    Here's the cope half of the pattern in place. The drag half is already molded in underneath, in the sand. The white powder is parting dust which prevents the sand from sticking where it shouldn't. The pattern gets dusted before any sand gets put on top.



  6. #41
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Mukilteo, WA
    Posts
    2,012

    Default Re: Casting the Merriman Cleat

    How do you manage to keep both halves of the pattern aligned?

  7. #42
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    San Diego, CA
    Posts
    38

    Default Re: Casting the Merriman Cleat

    These are cool! I have done a lot of sand casting with bronze and silver. In my opinion, you'll have better pours if you flip the pattern over and put one sprue in each leg of the base of the cleat. The slight upsweep of the main body of the cleat, kind of invites a bubble. In addition, if you sprue at the bottom, you can more easily cut and grind the area where the sprue connects to the work piece. That means less grinding and filing on the finished piece. This is fun to see. Keep posting!

  8. #43
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    8,379

    Default Re: Casting the Merriman Cleat

    Quote Originally Posted by J.Madison View Post
    How do you manage to keep both halves of the pattern aligned?

    That's a good question. I just took a look through my photos and realized that none showed the back of the pattern. I'll take one and put it up, it's an important point.

    To answer your question, though, I used these little brass ferrule things that I have in abundance for just such an occasion. Sometimes you can use a simple thing like brad points driven through but larger patterns might need something more, like dowels. However it's done there are some sort of registering pins involved for a split pattern.





    Once the mold halves are opened up and the patterns withdrawn the assembled core can be set in place. Carefully set in place.

    That done you need to get your eyeball down level with the edge of the mold and have a look at the parting line on the sand core. It should coincide with the plane of the sand but prolly won't. Gotta press it down this way and that until everything lines up.

    It's like that.

    Jim



  9. #44
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Lindstrom, MN
    Posts
    2,396

    Default Re: Casting the Merriman Cleat

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich Jones View Post
    Ya know, West Marine has plastic cleats. Save you a lot of time and effort.

    Question: Why hollow? To save weight and material? Seems like a lot of work as opposed to solid.
    Having commented on the concept of cool before, I now have to ask how cool a solid lump would be. As long as we aren't casting keels, cores are cool.

    Now that I'm through venting, I am reminded of the small vent tubes that I saw incorporated into some resin bonded sand molds. They let gas out, but are too small to fill with metal. Google has failed me while looking for a good example. I had to settle for an example of plastic vent wires, which I have never seen before. http://www.cat-intl.com/FoundryConsu.../CoreVent.aspx

    This talks about vent wires and tubes with a frustrating lack of detail: https://materialrulz.weebly.com/uplo...der_mcm_02.pdf
    Management is the art of counting beans. Leadership is the art of making every being count. --Joe Finch

  10. #45
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Norwich,United Kingdom
    Posts
    5,937

    Default Re: Casting the Merriman Cleat

    Quote Originally Posted by J.Madison View Post
    How do you manage to keep both halves of the pattern aligned?
    Patternmakers dowels.Is the powder French chalk?

  11. #46
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Edinburgh, Scotland
    Posts
    99

    Default Re: Casting the Merriman Cleat

    Been watching them all evening.. there's also a good one for a "shannon one design" dinghy that's making me feel embarrassed about how long my projects take.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0meQiENR4zA

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Ledger View Post
    Thanks for that, Jeff, the background is fascinating.

    For anyone who found that documentary interesting you would be happy to know that it's one of a series. Other episodes feature curaggh making, bookbinding, pottery, saddlemaking. It's a good list.

    Jim

  12. #47
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    8,379

    Default Re: Casting the Merriman Cleat

    Quote Originally Posted by J.Madison View Post
    How do you manage to keep both halves of the pattern aligned?

    Here's the picture showing the dowel pins on the back of the pattern. You can see the remains of paper on the mating surfaces where the block was glued together with paper between. The entire block was then bored through on a drill press for the pins, insuring alignment. The glue joint was then split and the dowels installed. The screws are the method by which the pattern is withdrawn from the sand.


    Quote Originally Posted by John Meachen View Post
    Patternmakers dowels.Is the powder French chalk?
    Patternmakers dowels, that makes sense. Thanks, John. I can't attest to the provenance of my parting dust but I suspect it to be something rather more ordinary. Parting dust can be any fine dry powdered substance. I've seen talcum powder used. I've heard, but don't quote me, that rafter dust from grain mills was used in the past, which might not be as odd as it sounds given the amount of dust build-up in these places.

    The dust is dispensed through the toe of an old sock. It penetrates the cloth and rains down in a fine shower at the slightest tap.



  13. #48
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    8,379

    Default Re: Casting the Merriman Cleat

    Quote Originally Posted by Doswell View Post
    These are cool! I have done a lot of sand casting with bronze and silver. In my opinion, you'll have better pours if you flip the pattern over and put one sprue in each leg of the base of the cleat. The slight upsweep of the main body of the cleat, kind of invites a bubble. In addition, if you sprue at the bottom, you can more easily cut and grind the area where the sprue connects to the work piece. That means less grinding and filing on the finished piece. This is fun to see. Keep posting!

    It's always good to be under the eye of an expert, thanks for your comments and welcome to the thread. You make a good point about feeding through the feet, but if you look at the picture of the sand core in place you will realize that there's difficulty in doing so. As fed, the ingates are easy enough to cut off and grind flush. What you can't see yet is how the molds a propped up for pouring, which results in the air inside having an exit as the mold fills.

    Thanks for your interest,

    Jim

  14. #49
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    8,379

    Default Re: Casting the Merriman Cleat

    Quote Originally Posted by MN Dave View Post
    Having commented on the concept of cool before, I now have to ask how cool a solid lump would be. As long as we aren't casting keels, cores are cool.

    Now that I'm through venting, I am reminded of the small vent tubes that I saw incorporated into some resin bonded sand molds. They let gas out, but are too small to fill with metal. Google has failed me while looking for a good example. I had to settle for an example of plastic vent wires, which I have never seen before. http://www.cat-intl.com/FoundryConsu.../CoreVent.aspx

    This talks about vent wires and tubes with a frustrating lack of detail: https://materialrulz.weebly.com/uplo...der_mcm_02.pdf



    Thanks, Dave. Generally, the high tech casting operations have little of use to offer. One of my favorites on the low-tech end of the scale is Myfordboy, who casts a lot of aluminum parts...


  15. #50
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    8,379

    Default Re: Casting the Merriman Cleat

    And Luckygen, who casts mainly iron parts from scrap...


  16. #51
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    8,379

    Default Re: Casting the Merriman Cleat

    Quote Originally Posted by jeffcapeshop View Post
    Been watching them all evening.. there's also a good one for a "shannon one design" dinghy that's making me feel embarrassed about how long my projects take.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0meQiENR4zA
    I watched the curragh builders last night. First rate!





    Here's one from yesterday...



  17. #52
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Northeast
    Posts
    15,823

    Default Re: Casting the Merriman Cleat

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich Jones View Post
    Ya know, West Marine has plastic cleats. Save you a lot of time and effort.

    Question: Why hollow? To save weight and material? Seems like a lot of work as opposed to solid.
    Weight and material is one thing (Cost savings for both), but the other is the non-uniform sections in a casting would have unequal cooling and possibly cause the part to "sink" in the heavy sections.
    "The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails."
    -William A. Ward



  18. #53
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Philadelphia, PA
    Posts
    707

    Default Re: Casting the Merriman Cleat

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Ledger View Post
    And Luckygen, who casts mainly iron parts from scrap...


    these are fabulous!

  19. #54
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    8,379

    Default Re: Casting the Merriman Cleat

    Quote Originally Posted by Canoez View Post
    Weight and material is one thing (Cost savings for both), but the other is the non-uniform sections in a casting would have unequal cooling and possibly cause the part to "sink" in the heavy sections.

    The 'sinking" you refer to, Craig, could be controlled by a couple of well-placed risers.

    And there's the problem. The risers have to be the last portion of the casting to freeze, which means that they have to be larger than the sections that they are intended to feed.

    The cleats, after being cut free of the ingates and vents weigh two and three quarter pounds each. Some of this weight will be lost in the subsequent clean-up and polish. I'm going to guess that a solid cleat would weigh maybe three time what the hollow weighs, or roughly eight pounds. You can easily double this weight when figuring out the amount of melt required, so, sixteen pounds of bronze would need to be melted for the pour, minimum. That's a big brimming flask full and it takes a lot of fuel to melt that much.

    Silicon bronze in ingot form costs five bucks a pound, so our cleats have a material cost of about fourteen bucks each, as opposed to forty for the less-desirable solid cleat.

    The difference is real cash you could be pissing away on an entirely different boat-related item.

    Jim

  20. #55
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    8,379

    Default Re: Casting the Merriman Cleat

    There's the final two. That's it for the casting part, time to put away the cooker and wash the pots. Then we'll see about making them look like something.



  21. #56
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    central cal
    Posts
    17,369

    Default Re: Casting the Merriman Cleat

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Ledger View Post
    There's the final two. That's it for the casting part, time to put away the cooker and wash the pots. Then we'll see about making them look like something.


    Wait. You made my pair, right?

    I still have yet to delve into metal, but Quad and I are casting some resin pieces for action figures. He makes dioramas, see, and often needs custom bits.
    He and I keep threatening to get set up for casting aluminum. Lots of neat crafty bits and such like we can make as practice for casting other metal bits.

    I really have enjoyed learning about this art through these threads and the various links and whatall.

    Peace,
    Robert

  22. #57
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    8,379

    Default Re: Casting the Merriman Cleat

    Quote Originally Posted by amish rob View Post
    Wait. You made my pair, right?

    I still have yet to delve into metal, but Quad and I are casting some resin pieces for action figures. He makes dioramas, see, and often needs custom bits.
    He and I keep threatening to get set up for casting aluminum. Lots of neat crafty bits and such like we can make as practice for casting other metal bits.

    I really have enjoyed learning about this art through these threads and the various links and whatall.

    Peace,
    Robert


    Thanks, Rob. You can melt aluminum with some charcoal and a blower. All you need is a heavy steel pot and a pot holder. If you have a favorite anthill.....






    Well, here it is, Battleship Row, everybody's in port and it looks like we've been taking hits on the port bow today.




  23. #58
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    new zealand
    Posts
    3,459

    Default Re: Casting the Merriman Cleat

    So close!
    Don't underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers!

  24. #59
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    central cal
    Posts
    17,369

    Default Re: Casting the Merriman Cleat

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Ledger View Post
    Thanks, Rob. You can melt aluminum with some charcoal and a blower. All you need is a heavy steel pot and a pot holder. If you have a favorite anthill.....






    Well, here it is, Battleship Row, everybody's in port and it looks like we've been taking hits on the port bow today.



    How did you know?

    Peace,
    Robert

  25. #60
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    8,379

    Default Re: Casting the Merriman Cleat

    Quote Originally Posted by amish rob View Post
    How did you know?

    Peace,
    Robert
    The anthill thing? All the aluminum casters do that.



    Quote Originally Posted by epoxyboy View Post
    So close!

    Do you think I'm tossing these? No way, there's five keepers there. Those holes are easily fixed.



    Jim

  26. #61
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Walney, near Cumbria UK
    Posts
    43,212

    Default Re: Casting the Merriman Cleat

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Ledger View Post
    Do you think I'm tossing these? No way, there's five keepers there. Those holes are easily fixed.
    Jim
    Going to cut the patches out of the worst one to weld into the other five?
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

    The power of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web
    The weakness of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web.

  27. #62
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    central cal
    Posts
    17,369

    Default Re: Casting the Merriman Cleat

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Ledger View Post
    The anthill thing? All the aluminum casters do that.






    Do you think I'm tossing these? No way, there's five keepers there. Those holes are easily fixed.



    Jim
    I ain’t digging them up, neither. Just looking for some respite for my garden.

    Peace,
    Really, We Plan To Make A Fake Star Wars Blaster, Not And Ant Blob. And A Light Saber Hilt. Really. My Son Is A NEEEEEERD.

    ETA Said the nerd who plans to turn the base for the light saber hilt pattern and the blaster barrel on his pole lathe with hand made tools...

  28. #63
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    8,379

    Default Re: Casting the Merriman Cleat

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    Going to cut the patches out of the worst one to weld into the other five?
    Hi, Nick. After casting the first two, which had a lot of defects, I tries welding beads around the holes to close them up. It's going well and I'm getting better at it. The metal gets ground back to a thicker area and a bead placed along the edge. The outside gets ground to the rough contour and another bead welded on. I'll get some photos as I get more into it.


    I weighed the entire casting and pouring channels weight as the piece was pulled from the sand. I should have known to do this sooner as it allows the metal to be weighed before melting next time. An interesting thing, the cast weight was half the entire weight, and this casting having little in the way of risers. Which means, if you were casting the solid version mentioned above, the weight of melt would have to be increased substantially over the original estimate.

  29. #64
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Geraldton, Western Australia
    Posts
    505

    Default Re: Casting the Merriman Cleat

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich Jones View Post
    Uh.... is your wife looking for that toaster oven?
    I once used our gas grill to melt some lead. The good wife was not happy!
    You’re more than welcome to use anything you need from my kitchen. This is well and truly worthy of my very best LeCreuset, I reckon.

  30. #65
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    PNW, an island west of Seattle
    Posts
    1,866

    Default Re: Casting the Merriman Cleat

    Jim, how are the cores removed? Does the heat simply bake the glue out and then the sand pours out? But if that's the case, the core might self-destruct too soon....

    Jeff

  31. #66
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    Melb, Vic, Aus
    Posts
    377

    Default Re: Casting the Merriman Cleat

    Hey Jim,
    The holes are in the same place with each cleat. So there must be the same problem occurring.
    I know nothing of casting (disclaimer) but would the vent holes be better placed on the tips of the cleat? It looks like trapped air to be causing this???

    Cheers Steve

  32. #67
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Mountain lakes of Vermont
    Posts
    11,737

    Default Re: Casting the Merriman Cleat

    Quote Originally Posted by jpatrick View Post
    Jim, how are the cores removed? Does the heat simply bake the glue out and then the sand pours out? But if that's the case, the core might self-destruct too soon....

    Jeff
    I was wondering that myself. How so those cores get out?
    I was born on a wooden boat that I built myself.

  33. #68
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    8,379

    Default Re: Casting the Merriman Cleat

    Quote Originally Posted by suzyj View Post
    You’re more than welcome to use anything you need from my kitchen. This is well and truly worthy of my very best LeCreuset, I reckon.

    Could I use borrow digital scale then? Ours seems to have got sand in the works. Glad you're enjoying the show!


    Quote Originally Posted by Geftb View Post
    Hey Jim,
    The holes are in the same place with each cleat. So there must be the same problem occurring.
    I know nothing of casting (disclaimer) but would the vent holes be better placed on the tips of the cleat? It looks like trapped air to be causing this???

    Cheers Steve

    I don't think it's trapped air, Steve, it's happening in the bottom half of the cavity. If it was only one or two I might suspect a misalignment of the core, which would probably result in a hole opposite, which is not happening. I suspect that I might have duplicated a thin wall flaw from the original piece.


    Quote Originally Posted by Rich Jones View Post
    I was wondering that myself. How so those cores get out?
    You bring up an interesting point about the cores, Rich. As this is my first attempt to use a baked core I had no idea of the properties of the recipe that I was using. A sand core needs to accomplish several things. First, it has to be strong enough to not break apart due to handling and placement. It also has to be hard enough to withstand the erosive effects of the metal during the pour. Easy enough, so far, but it also has to break down, or bake out soon after the metal is poured. The reason for this is because a too-solid core can cause a tear in the casting as the metal cools and contracts. What happens is that the cereal binder, the dextrin, and the linseed oil burn off under the heat of the metal, making the core loose most of its strength. The big lump at the base of the core is unaffected as it's surrounded by sand for the most part, and gets dug out of the sand whole. The part of the core inside the cleat turns crusty and can be easily poked out with a wire.

    As it turned out I'm quite pleased with the sand core performance.

    Jim

  34. #69
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Northeast
    Posts
    15,823

    Default Re: Casting the Merriman Cleat

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Ledger View Post
    The 'sinking" you refer to, Craig, could be controlled by a couple of well-placed risers.

    And there's the problem. The risers have to be the last portion of the casting to freeze, which means that they have to be larger than the sections that they are intended to feed.
    My casting experience has been with “standard” coring tools for risers. Looks like I should expand my repertoire a bit.

    Part of my professional experience has been in doing some designs for plastic molding and aluminum casting where uniformity and sinking is a big deal.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Ledger View Post
    The difference is real cash you could be pissing away on an entirely different boat-related item.

    Jim
    Well, now. There’s a point I won’t argue.
    "The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails."
    -William A. Ward



  35. #70
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    8,379

    Default Re: Casting the Merriman Cleat

    Quote Originally Posted by Canoez View Post
    My casting experience has been with “standard” coring tools for risers. Looks like I should expand my repertoire a bit.

    Part of my professional experience has been in doing some designs for plastic molding and aluminum casting where uniformity and sinking is a big deal.

    Thanks, Craig. Sinking is always a big deal. As there are few "standard" castings the size and placement of risers is usually left to the molder and is often the subject of experiment to find an arrangement that gives consistent results.

    Here is the method I'm using to close up the holes in the casting. The metal is first ground back to provide a clean, thick edge. A weld bead of matching metal is then run around the perimeter of the hole. Much of the excess metal will be subsequently ground off before the next bead is run. After repeating this cycle a number of times the hole will be narrow enough to close with a single pass.

    Jim


    Last edited by Jim Ledger; 01-21-2019 at 10:16 AM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •