Results 1 to 20 of 20

Thread: The straight skinny on the Wall from ( gasp! ) an actual wall engineer

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Freeland, WA
    Posts
    26,929

    Default The straight skinny on the Wall from ( gasp! ) an actual wall engineer

    From a woman named Amy Patrick on Facebook:

    Howdy.
    To recap: Iím a licensed structural and civil engineer with a MS in structural engineering from the top program in the nation and over a decade of experience on high-performance projects, and particularly of cleaning up design disasters where the factors werenít properly accounted for, and Iím an adjunct professor of structural analysis and design at UH-Downtown. I have previously been deposed as an expert witness in matters regarding proper construction of walls and the various factors associated therein, and my testimony has passed Daubert. Am I a wall expert? I am. I am literally a court-accepted expert on walls.
    Structurally and civil engineering-wise, the border wall is not a feasible project. Trump did not hire engineers to design the thing. He solicited bids from contractors, not engineers. This means itís not been designed by professionals. Itís a disaster of numerous types waiting to happen.
    What disasters?
    Off the top of my head...
    1) It will mess with our ability to drain land in flash flooding. Anything impeding the ability of water to get where it needs to go (doesnít matter if there are holes in the wall or whatever) is going to dramatically increase the risk of flooding.
    2) Messes with all kind of stuff ecologically. For all other projects, we have to do an Environmental Site Assessment, which is arduous. Theyíre either planning to circumvent all this, or they havenít accounted for it yet, because thatís part of the design process, and this thing hasnít been designed.
    3) The prototypes they came up with are nearly impossible to build or donít actually do the job. This article explains more:

    https://www.google.com/Ö/mobile.engineering.Ö/amp/17599.html
    And so on.
    The estimates provided for the cost are arrived at unreasonably. You can look for yourself at the two-year-old estimate that you see everyone citing.
    http://fronterasdesk.org/Ö/Bernstein-%20The%20Trump%20Wall.Ö
    It does not account for rework, complexities beyond the prototype design, factors to prevent flood and environmental hazard creation, engineering redesign... Itís going to be higher than $50bn. The contractors will hit the government with near CONSTANT change orders. ďCost overrunĒ will be the name of the game. It will not be completed in Trumpís lifetime.
    Iím a structural forensicist, which means Iím called in when things go wrong. This is a project that WILL go wrong. When projects go wrong, the original estimates are just *obliterated*. And when that happens, good luck getting it fixed, because there arenít that many forensicists out there to right the ship, particularly not that are willing to work on a border wall projectó a large quotient of us are immigrants, and besides, we canít afford to bid on jobs that are this political. Weíre small firms, and weíre already busy, and we donít gamble our reputations on political footballs. So youíd end up with a revolving door of contractors making a giant, uncoordinated muddle of things, and itíd generally be a mess. Good money after bad. The GAO agrees with me.
    And it wonít be effective. I could, right now, purchase a 32 foot extension ladder and weld a cheap custom saddle for the top of the proposed wall so that I can get over it. I donít know who they talked to about the wall design and its efficacy, but it sure as heck wasnít anybody with any engineering imagination.
    Another thing: we are not far from the day where inexpensive drones will be able to pick up and carry someone. This will happen in the next ten years, and itís folly to think that the coyotes who ferry people over the border wonít purchase or create them. Theyíre low enough, quiet enough, and small enough to quickly zip people over any wall we could build undetected with our current monitoring setup.
    Letís have border security, by all means, but letís be smart about it. This is not smart. Itís not effective. Itís NOT cheap. The returns will be diminishing as technology advances, too. This is a ridiculous idea that will never be successfully executed and, as such, would be a monumental waste of money. 🤷🏻*♀️
    This is set to public. Have a blast sharing it.
    Gerard>
    ​Freeland, WA

    Resistance is NOT futile.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Sitka, AK
    Posts
    26,390

    Default Re: The straight skinny on the Wall from ( gasp! ) an actual wall engineer

    Cool article here...

    https://www.nationalgeographic.com/m...states-mexico/

    Photographer images of parts of the existing wall.
    "Simple minds discuss people, Average minds discuss things, and Great minds discuss ideas".

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    25,301

    Default Re: The straight skinny on the Wall from ( gasp! ) an actual wall engineer

    Quote Originally Posted by Gerarddm View Post
    From a woman named Amy Patrick on Facebook:

    Howdy.
    To recap: I’m a licensed structural and civil engineer with a MS in structural engineering from the top program in the nation and over a decade of experience on high-performance projects, and particularly of cleaning up design disasters where the factors weren’t properly accounted for, and I’m an adjunct professor of structural analysis and design at UH-Downtown. I have previously been deposed as an expert witness in matters regarding proper construction of walls and the various factors associated therein, and my testimony has passed Daubert. Am I a wall expert? I am. I am literally a court-accepted expert on walls.
    Structurally and civil engineering-wise, the border wall is not a feasible project. Trump did not hire engineers to design the thing. He solicited bids from contractors, not engineers. This means it’s not been designed by professionals. It’s a disaster of numerous types waiting to happen.
    What disasters?
    Off the top of my head...
    1) It will mess with our ability to drain land in flash flooding. Anything impeding the ability of water to get where it needs to go (doesn’t matter if there are holes in the wall or whatever) is going to dramatically increase the risk of flooding.
    2) Messes with all kind of stuff ecologically. For all other projects, we have to do an Environmental Site Assessment, which is arduous. They’re either planning to circumvent all this, or they haven’t accounted for it yet, because that’s part of the design process, and this thing hasn’t been designed.
    3) The prototypes they came up with are nearly impossible to build or don’t actually do the job. This article explains more:

    https://www.google.com/…/mobile.engineering.…/amp/17599.html
    And so on.
    The estimates provided for the cost are arrived at unreasonably. You can look for yourself at the two-year-old estimate that you see everyone citing.
    http://fronterasdesk.org/…/Bernstein-%20The%20Trump%20Wall.…
    It does not account for rework, complexities beyond the prototype design, factors to prevent flood and environmental hazard creation, engineering redesign... It’s going to be higher than $50bn. The contractors will hit the government with near CONSTANT change orders. “Cost overrun” will be the name of the game. It will not be completed in Trump’s lifetime.
    I’m a structural forensicist, which means I’m called in when things go wrong. This is a project that WILL go wrong. When projects go wrong, the original estimates are just *obliterated*. And when that happens, good luck getting it fixed, because there aren’t that many forensicists out there to right the ship, particularly not that are willing to work on a border wall project— a large quotient of us are immigrants, and besides, we can’t afford to bid on jobs that are this political. We’re small firms, and we’re already busy, and we don’t gamble our reputations on political footballs. So you’d end up with a revolving door of contractors making a giant, uncoordinated muddle of things, and it’d generally be a mess. Good money after bad. The GAO agrees with me.
    And it won’t be effective. I could, right now, purchase a 32 foot extension ladder and weld a cheap custom saddle for the top of the proposed wall so that I can get over it. I don’t know who they talked to about the wall design and its efficacy, but it sure as heck wasn’t anybody with any engineering imagination.
    Another thing: we are not far from the day where inexpensive drones will be able to pick up and carry someone. This will happen in the next ten years, and it’s folly to think that the coyotes who ferry people over the border won’t purchase or create them. They’re low enough, quiet enough, and small enough to quickly zip people over any wall we could build undetected with our current monitoring setup.
    Let’s have border security, by all means, but let’s be smart about it. This is not smart. It’s not effective. It’s NOT cheap. The returns will be diminishing as technology advances, too. This is a ridiculous idea that will never be successfully executed and, as such, would be a monumental waste of money. 路*♀️
    This is set to public. Have a blast sharing it.
    What do these elitist 'wall engineers' know about running a project that size, anyway, huh?

    Well?
    Rattling the teacups.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Reedville, OR
    Posts
    9,960

    Default Re: The straight skinny on the Wall from ( gasp! ) an actual wall engineer

    Quote Originally Posted by BrianW View Post
    Cool article here...

    https://www.nationalgeographic.com/m...states-mexico/

    Photographer images of parts of the existing wall.
    Good link.

    I am in favor of any source that helps elucidate the complexity of the situation.

    The reduction of the issue to "Wall or no Wall" has us all hostage to absurdity. How can anyone say anything meaningful when the argument is irreal?

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Central MA
    Posts
    7,724

    Default Re: The straight skinny on the Wall from ( gasp! ) an actual wall engineer

    Don't you know by now that as in all other things, no one knows as much about walls as Donald Trump? Don't be so silly.
    I rather be an American than a Republican.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Kitty Hawk, NC
    Posts
    7,545

    Default Re: The straight skinny on the Wall from ( gasp! ) an actual wall engineer

    Quote Originally Posted by Gerarddm View Post
    From a woman named Amy Patrick on Facebook:
    Everyone is an engineer today. A usual method of solving a problem is to give the problem to a bunch of kids and let them have at it.

    I think Amy is expecting too much from the proposed solutions. I can also come up with off the shelf ways of defeating the wall.
    Life is complex.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Central Coast, Ca
    Posts
    22,042

    Default Re: The straight skinny on the Wall from ( gasp! ) an actual wall engineer

    Quote Originally Posted by Too Little Time View Post
    I can also come up with off the shelf ways of defeating the wall.
    You might be a Mexican?

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Cows
    Posts
    130

    Default Re: The straight skinny on the Wall from ( gasp! ) an actual wall engineer

    It is as if the President is insisting on a manned mission to the Sun, and the adults are saying, no, that is not a good idea, we are not going to fund that.
    bccphalarope(dot)com

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    On the river, Auckland, New Zealand
    Posts
    4,843

    Default Re: The straight skinny on the Wall from ( gasp! ) an actual wall engineer

    Quote Originally Posted by twodot View Post
    It is as if the President is insisting on a manned mission to the Sun, and the adults are saying, no, that is not a good idea, we are not going to fund that.
    I did see a post on facebook that said that "the President" had asked NASA to plan such a mission, and when NASA's boffins told him that it was too hot, he said "thats easy, just go there at night time".

    John Welsford
    An expert is but a beginner with experience.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Seymour, TN
    Posts
    10,245

    Default Re: The straight skinny on the Wall from ( gasp! ) an actual wall engineer


  11. #11
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Bradford, VT
    Posts
    6,707

    Default Re: The straight skinny on the Wall from ( gasp! ) an actual wall engineer

    Didn't Jefferson set a precedent for a President building a wall?

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Scotland
    Posts
    8,175

    Default Re: The straight skinny on the Wall from ( gasp! ) an actual wall engineer

    Quote Originally Posted by BrianW View Post
    Cool article here...

    https://www.nationalgeographic.com/m...states-mexico/

    Photographer images of parts of the existing wall.
    I like this bit..

    Functionally speaking, a border wall attempts to do two things. One is to stem migration—people coming into this country for greater opportunity. But only when we stop hiring will they stop coming.
    Every time I see an adult on a bicycle, I no longer despair for the future of the human race. H. G. Wells

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Aquitaine
    Posts
    911

    Default Re: The straight skinny on the Wall from ( gasp! ) an actual wall engineer

    Churchill used to build brick walls, but he did it himself, without guv funding and as therapy. Trump might try that.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Port Richey
    Posts
    12,399

    Default Re: The straight skinny on the Wall from ( gasp! ) an actual wall engineer

    Tom

    "Leave the gun, take the cannolis"

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Port Richey
    Posts
    12,399

    Default Re: The straight skinny on the Wall from ( gasp! ) an actual wall engineer

    Of course when listening to the experts we should consider all experts.

    "Most drugs are smuggled into the United States onboard fishing boats, trains, tractor-trailers and ordinary cars that come into the country at legal ports of entry", according to former cartel members who've testified in the trial of notorious cartel leader Joaquin "El Chapo" Guzman.

    Some cartel members have testified about using underground tunnels. But none have said they've transported drugs into the United States at unwalled sections of the border.
    The testimony comes at a time when President Donald Trump's push for a border wall includes arguments that it would help stop the flow of drugs into the United States.
    Trump tweeted Friday that without a steel barrier or wall along the US-Mexico border, "our Country cannot be safe. Criminals, Gangs, Human Traffickers, Drugs & so much other big trouble can easily pour in. It can be stopped cold!"
    https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/12/us/dr...Bw7JqBAAULvAdI
    Tom

    "Leave the gun, take the cannolis"

  16. #16
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    UK. Cornwall, Suffolk.
    Posts
    4,609

    Default Re: The straight skinny on the Wall from ( gasp! ) an actual wall engineer

    Let the US government fund it... If it doesn't show a decrease in immigration and drugs entering after 5 years, get Trump to reimburse the thing out of his own pocket.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    ibeeria
    Posts
    3,264

    Default Re: The straight skinny on the Wall from ( gasp! ) an actual wall engineer

    Cant do links, but go to youtube 'How mexicans be training their kids for Trump's future wall' (sic)
    'C'est la vie' say the old folks it goes to show you never can tell

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Central Coast, Ca
    Posts
    22,042

    Default Re: The straight skinny on the Wall from ( gasp! ) an actual wall engineer

    Quote Originally Posted by lupussonic View Post
    Let the US government fund it... If it doesn't show a decrease in immigration and drugs entering after 5 years, get Trump to reimburse the thing out of his own pocket.
    His credit rating is not good enough.
    Better to have him fund it and we reimburse him after it is proven. He could borrow the money from Russians. Hell he could even put his name on it. With guard stations every couple hundred yards, he could call them Trump's towers.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Hills of Vermont, USA
    Posts
    26,634

    Default Re: The straight skinny on the Wall from ( gasp! ) an actual wall engineer

    Quote Originally Posted by jonboy View Post
    Cant do links, but go to youtube 'How mexicans be training their kids for Trump's future wall' (sic)
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Apr 1999
    Location
    West Boothbay Harbor, Maine
    Posts
    23,654

    Default Re: The straight skinny on the Wall from ( gasp! ) an actual wall engineer

    Competence counts.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •