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Thread: 1st Build Qs: 1. About hull rocker and increasing displacement

  1. #1
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    Default 1st Build Qs: 1. About hull rocker and increasing displacement

    Hello everyone,

    About 6 weeks ago I bought plans for an Oz Goose dinghy, a development of the PDRacer which is a development of the Bolger Brick, so rectangular plan with a rocker bottom (I expect most people on this Forum know this).
    The boat will be used, first, to learn to sail, and then to just day sail for leisure and pleasure, no racing. Experimenting with some sails and rigs. Maybe, after 2-3 years, I will build a bigger boat with a cabin, good enough to spend a few nights on.

    This will be my first boat and I want to change a few things (as I suspect most home builders do). E.g. I will definitely use a leeboard instead of a daggerboard (at least at first) as Iíll use the boat in waters that get very shallow. My first foils will be made of laminated plywood instead of laminated solid wood and my spars will be aluminium (I donít trust my carpentry). Iíll ask questions about them later, but they can wait a bit.

    However, before I even start to cut the plywood for the hull (I bought most materials already, built a cardboard 1:10 scale model, but no 1st cut yet), I need to decide about another change I would like to do, and this one Iím not sure of.

    I want to change the boatís rocker, specifically to deepen it.
    I would like to change the rocker because I want to increase the displacement. I want to add more freeboard, at least 1", (which means more weight anyway) plus I plan (at some point) to try and add some side ďwallsĒ (coamings?) to serve as back rests and keep water out, maybe even some flimsy walls forward that, with a tarp cover, can approximate a tiny cabin. All that means extra weight.
    Plus, I hope to convince 3 other people to join me in the boat from time to time. This boat is designed for 2 adults.

    I read a lot on the subject of boats lately (on this forum, others, blogs, websites, books, almost all I do in my spare time over the last 3 months) and I got the impression that one thing to definitely avoid is having the transom drag in the water (as well as have the bow transom high enough to not slam in each wave). Which is why I want to ďdeepenĒ the rocker instead of simply increasing the vertical dimensions.
    I have played with the hull shape in DelftShip to get an idea of the effects of certain changes, e.g. increasing the draft midships by 20 mm but keeping the bow and aft transoms at the same distance from base (with some rough fairing of the curve) I got an extra 45 kg displacement. I would like to try for a 60-70 kg increase.

    Before I continue with this, I need a sanity check.

    Am I going to ruin the boat by changing the radius of the rocker?

    How important is the precise geometrical profile of the rocker for performance and stability?
    While I would be OK with a bit of performance loss (I will not race this boat) I donít want to make it un-sailable.

    Should I just build the hull precisely to the plans and accept that extra weight will mean severe performance penalty?
    Is it too much hubris for a 1st time builder to mess with the hull shape (even a little)?

    Iím sorry if this is a stupid question, Iíve searched a lot trying to find the answer, but I did not find enough information in my searches to edify me. Also, I do not know anyone who sails or has ever built a boat so I have nobody around me to ask.

    Please advise.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: 1st Build Qs: 1. About hull rocker and increasing displacement

    Thanks for asking before doing.

    The Oz Goose is a successful design. I wouldn't mess with it.

    Sounds like what you really need is a different boat. There are tons of designs in that size range and build difficulty. For your first boat, don't deviate from the plan.

    You may want to look into the Goat Island Skiff.
    There's the plan, then there's what actually happens.

    Ben Sebens, RN

    15' Welsford Navigator Inconceivable
    16' W. Simmons Mattinicus double ender ​Matty

  3. #3
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    Default Re: 1st Build Qs: 1. About hull rocker and increasing displacement

    What Ben said. Messing with displacement & physical hull shape opens up the possibility of changing helm balance, stability, hull speed, etc. Lots of fish in the sea; best to look for a better one to catch. Build to plan, sell it, and build another (better) one. Sorry if this rains on your plans.
    Hope for the best, but plan for the worst.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: 1st Build Qs: 1. About hull rocker and increasing displacement

    I too would go with a different boat closer to your needs.
    From what I read you want to change design virtues and add faults to a design that doesn't even match your needs in the first place. Not uncommon for a first time builder with no sailing experience. Perhaps a more complete description of your needs and desires in a boat would help those on this forum understand what you are looking to build. Following that you will get deluged with help in choosing a more appropriate design. In the end your first build will be a satisfying experience instead of a disaster.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: 1st Build Qs: 1. About hull rocker and increasing displacement

    How often will you really get 4 people in this boat? I'd say build it to plan, have some fun with it, and in the process learn what your next boat needs to be. And there will always be a next one.
    -Dave

  6. #6
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    Default Re: 1st Build Qs: 1. About hull rocker and increasing displacement

    The Oz Goose is ingeniously designed and you can make a really lousy boat if you bring in whims that have utterly no basis in anything but your lack of experience. Build her as is and get used to sailing her the right way, which means when on the wind get the lee chine deep and get the weather chine up in the air. Then she'll take a surprising level of chop without undue banging.

    Given how the boat sails, the idea of a leeboard is very very bad. Stick to a dagger board. It's a light boat and you can run the board into the bottom or into a rock without too much damage and just slowing the boat a little. Plus you'll learn to look at the water to understand the signs of depth.

    Some daggerboard sailors have the forward end of the trunk angle forward and have a piece of fitted foam bringing the inside to perpendicular. That serves as a crush box to ease any impact. I doubt you'll be sailing fast and hard enough to need that.

    Follow the plan. Read up on boat design after you learn a bit about sailing. And . . .

    G'luck

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    Default Re: 1st Build Qs: 1. About hull rocker and increasing displacement

    Thank you very much everyone for answering.
    Exactly what I was looking for.
    The consensus is clear and so I will not modify the hull.

    I will build the Oz Goose instead of another boat.

    The truth is that my needs are simple: a boat that is easy to build by an inexperienced builder, with a list of materials that is relatively cheap and available, resulting in a boat stable and forgiving enough for an inexperienced sailor and yet with enough (potential) power to allow a gradual progress from cautious and awkward initial sailing to achieving a satisfactory beginner medium-level of sailing skill.

    The Oz Goose as a whole meets my needs perfectly (or so it seems to me).

    The rest are wants (e.g. having 4 people in it occasionally, having higher sides to keep her dryer) or maybe not even wants but more like whims/dreams/fears of someone who never sailed but wants to and does not know any better, just like Ian wrote.

    Well, now that this question is settled I can (and will) start.
    I still have to buy the timber (the merchants were all closed for the holidays) and clear my working area (i.e. get my caravan out of the garage).

    I'm so looking forward to it (the build)! (I'm also a bit apprehensive).
    I'll ask my other questions in new Threads.

    Thank you all again for your quick and clear answers.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: 1st Build Qs: 1. About hull rocker and increasing displacement

    I am glad that we could help, and hope that we can be useful in the future. Good luck with your build, and remember that workshop safety is your biggest responsibility. Going home at the end of the day with as many fingers as you started the day with is the primary objective... <grin>
    Hope for the best, but plan for the worst.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: 1st Build Qs: 1. About hull rocker and increasing displacement

    Quote Originally Posted by corkobo View Post
    Hello everyone,

    About 6 weeks ago I bought plans for an Oz Goose dinghy, a development of the PDRacer which is a development of the Bolger Brick, so rectangular plan with a rocker bottom (I expect most people on this Forum know this).
    The boat will be used, first, to learn to sail, and then to just day sail for leisure and pleasure, no racing. Experimenting with some sails and rigs. Maybe, after 2-3 years, I will build a bigger boat with a cabin, good enough to spend a few nights on.

    This will be my first boat and I want to change a few things (as I suspect most home builders do). E.g. I will definitely use a leeboard instead of a daggerboard (at least at first) as I’ll use the boat in waters that get very shallow. My first foils will be made of laminated plywood instead of laminated solid wood and my spars will be aluminium (I don’t trust my carpentry). I’ll ask questions about them later, but they can wait a bit.

    However, before I even start to cut the plywood for the hull (I bought most materials already, built a cardboard 1:10 scale model, but no 1st cut yet), I need to decide about another change I would like to do, and this one I’m not sure of.

    I want to change the boat’s rocker, specifically to deepen it.
    I would like to change the rocker because I want to increase the displacement. I want to add more freeboard, at least 1", (which means more weight anyway) plus I plan (at some point) to try and add some side “walls” (coamings?) to serve as back rests and keep water out, maybe even some flimsy walls forward that, with a tarp cover, can approximate a tiny cabin. All that means extra weight.
    Plus, I hope to convince 3 other people to join me in the boat from time to time. This boat is designed for 2 adults.

    I read a lot on the subject of boats lately (on this forum, others, blogs, websites, books, almost all I do in my spare time over the last 3 months) and I got the impression that one thing to definitely avoid is having the transom drag in the water (as well as have the bow transom high enough to not slam in each wave). Which is why I want to “deepen” the rocker instead of simply increasing the vertical dimensions.
    I have played with the hull shape in DelftShip to get an idea of the effects of certain changes, e.g. increasing the draft midships by 20 mm but keeping the bow and aft transoms at the same distance from base (with some rough fairing of the curve) I got an extra 45 kg displacement. I would like to try for a 60-70 kg increase.

    Before I continue with this, I need a sanity check.

    Am I going to ruin the boat by changing the radius of the rocker?

    How important is the precise geometrical profile of the rocker for performance and stability?
    While I would be OK with a bit of performance loss (I will not race this boat) I don’t want to make it un-sailable.

    Should I just build the hull precisely to the plans and accept that extra weight will mean severe performance penalty?
    Is it too much hubris for a 1st time builder to mess with the hull shape (even a little)?

    I’m sorry if this is a stupid question, I’ve searched a lot trying to find the answer, but I did not find enough information in my searches to edify me. Also, I do not know anyone who sails or has ever built a boat so I have nobody around me to ask.

    Please advise.
    If you were expert in small boat design, then maybe go ahead, otherwise, dont mess with a design that has been very carefully developed by someone who really knows the type.

    John Welsford
    An expert is but a beginner with experience.

  10. #10

    Default Re: 1st Build Qs: 1. About hull rocker and increasing displacement

    corkobo
    Talk to designer boatmik (and he may pop in on this thread).
    He has in the past recomended different rocker curves on this boat for different uses.
    These range from light displacement day use to load carrying expedition use.
    If I remember correctly the initial rocker curve offered was found to be too flat being the ozracer numbers stretched out.
    Storers designs are extremely well worked thru!
    All designs can be changed to more closely meet some criteria or other but I try to ask myself ...am I clever enough?
    Wayne
    Fremantle

  11. #11
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    Default Re: 1st Build Qs: 1. About hull rocker and increasing displacement

    corkobo, i have cruised alongside a goose in some pretty sporty conditions and was totally amazed with what i witnessed

    the one i followed was built to design and flying a polysail w/ 2 rows for reefing

    her skinny water ability was seldom bested

    this image has been blown up because i couldn't get close enough to take is w/o using a telephoto lense

    fullsizeoutput_52c.jpg

    the young man who built her and is seen in the pic had everything he needed onboard for a 5 day/200+ mile event on the Texas Gulf Coast ( look up the Texas 200 )

    the boat now lives in Forida

    as for changing the designed shape of the hull IMHO it would be counterproductive

    leave her class legal racing bottom dimensions alone

    i can't offhand remember specifically butt think the lower 7" of the hull is proprietary for a class boat and the shape IS PROVEN

    if you wish some extra space for camp/cruising you might think of the OOZE-GOOSE

    she'z a kinda cuddy cabin rendition of the Oz-Goose

    she can be built to use the stock/designed sail alone or built with a mizzen for a different look/feel

    th.jpeg

    you can see from this artist's rendition some more of your wishes can actually happen

    fullsizeoutput_1042.jpg

    you can see the finished hull gets longer than 12' when you extend the bow transom higher for the cuddy

    another image shows 2 adults squoze into the cockpit that is complete w/ seats and a bridge deck and i'm not thinkin 4 pairs of legs would be anywhere close to comfortable

    michelin-1.jpg

    hang on i'll be right back (i met my image limit)

    sw
    Last edited by swoody126; 01-11-2019 at 09:07 PM.
    "we are the people, our parents warned us about" (jb)

    steve

  12. #12
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    Default Re: 1st Build Qs: 1. About hull rocker and increasing displacement

    Quote Originally Posted by Wayne Poulsen View Post
    corkobo
    Talk to designer boatmik (and he may pop in on this thread)....
    Unfortunately Mr. Storer did not answer my emails.

    I sent the first email about 6 weeks or so ago after I bought the plans (as indicated in the plans, so that I could get a precise template for the foils). In that first email I also mentioned that I want to use a leeboard and asked for some guidance as to its location.

    After that, I sent another 2 or 3 emails (one from my work email just in case gmail is blocked by his server). Still no answer.
    Maybe I should not have said I want to use a leeboard (as he has an article that explains why leeboards are worse than centerboards for boat/helm balance). Or maybe his email server is down. Or maybe he's busy. I don't know.

    So all I can do is figure things out for myself, ask for advice here and do the best I can.
    I'll still go on and build my Goose (including figuring out how to scale my PDF so my printer gives me an accurate template for the foils).

    Of course I would have been delighted to have got some help/comments/advice direct from the boat's designer, as there are things still unclear to me (and I read the plans 4 times already and most relevant articles on his 3 websites), but it is what it is.

    Considering the very fast and thorough responses I got to my first post on this Forum, and the breadth and depth of knowledge in the conversations I've read in various Threads (I've been lurking for a while), I am confident that I will get the advice I need here.
    So I'm not that upset, just puzzled and disappointed.

    In fact, it was a picture/diagram from one of his websites that even gave me the idea of modifying the rocker to increase loading capacity.
    He took a Goose, shrank it for some reason (2/3 or so) and then the displacement became too low. He "deepened" the rocker and it got from 143kg to 215kg.
    I saved it to my "Notes" word doc and kept looking at it and thinking and then I thought I can do the same but without scaling the Goose down.

    I was never that sure about it, and now, after the 100% "don't change it" response, I will not do it, of course, I'll build the hull exactly as per plan.

  13. #13
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    Default Re: 1st Build Qs: 1. About hull rocker and increasing displacement

    that didn't take long

    i hit a wrong button/clicked the wrong click somewhere and had to go back and do some massaging of my attachments

    SO...

    my 1st real pic above is of a real boat and the rest are concept images

    here is a pic of a real life OOZE-GOOSE under sail (Main & mizzen) with 2 adults on the TEXAS 200 with all the gear and supplies for 5 days on the water

    gooze1.jpg

    and one under more subdued conditions being sailed solo

    29542686_870172209810858_7045419122749716180_n.jpg

    i know you already have OZ-GOOSE plans so if that's enough to begin with they will tell you everything you need to know

    if you are interested in buiding the OOZE-GOOSE you can get the plans from DUCKWORKS BOAT BUILDER SUPPLY for $40 US

    https://www.duckworksbbs.com/product-p/pk-oozegoose.htm

    IN THE BEGINNING follow established plans and once you've managed your first build and learned how to sail then begin thinking about what you want to do from there

    GOOD LUCK & HAVE FUN

    sw
    "we are the people, our parents warned us about" (jb)

    steve

  14. #14
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    Default Re: 1st Build Qs: 1. About hull rocker and increasing displacement

    Quote Originally Posted by corkobo View Post

    ...

    In fact, it was a picture/diagram from one of his websites that even gave me the idea of modifying the rocker to increase loading capacity.
    He took a Goose, shrank it for some reason (2/3 or so) and then the displacement became too low. He "deepened" the rocker and it got from 143kg to 215kg.
    I saved it to my "Notes" word doc and kept looking at it and thinking and then I thought I can do the same but without scaling the Goose down.

    ...
    the Oz Racer is a modified PDR w/ specs

    modified to Mik's profile and i hear good noises about it when up against a class legal PDR hull

    the shape of the hull being the only thing that is spec'd for a PDR

    the PDR's have no "class" specs for sails or boards(lee or center or even rudder blades)

    w/ the PDR's a lota folks do a lot of messin w/ the variables and darn few EVER end up making substantial improvements over the tried n true

    yes the Oz Racer is about 2/3 of an Oz-Goose butt i'm thinkin the Racer came 1st

    if you ever decide to build a second boat you might give Jim Michalak's designs and writings a look-see

    rememberize IT AINT WRONG to have several sets of plans to mull over while it's too cold/hot to do much more than seek conditioned air space w/ one's favorite weather appropriate beverage while dreaming about your next build ;-)

    sw
    "we are the people, our parents warned us about" (jb)

    steve

  15. #15
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    Default Re: 1st Build Qs: 1. About hull rocker and increasing displacement

    Quote Originally Posted by corkobo View Post
    Unfortunately Mr. Storer did not answer my emails.

    I sent the first email about 6 weeks or so ago after I bought the plans (as indicated in the plans, so that I could get a precise template for the foils). In that first email I also mentioned that I want to use a leeboard and asked for some guidance as to its location.

    After that, I sent another 2 or 3 emails (one from my work email just in case gmail is blocked by his server). Still no answer.
    Maybe I should not have said I want to use a leeboard (as he has an article that explains why leeboards are worse than centerboards for boat/helm balance). Or maybe his email server is down. Or maybe he's busy. I don't know.

    So all I can do is figure things out for myself, ask for advice here and do the best I can.
    I'll still go on and build my Goose (including figuring out how to scale my PDF so my printer gives me an accurate template for the foils).

    Of course I would have been delighted to have got some help/comments/advice direct from the boat's designer, as there are things still unclear to me (and I read the plans 4 times already and most relevant articles on his 3 websites), but it is what it is.

    Considering the very fast and thorough responses I got to my first post on this Forum, and the breadth and depth of knowledge in the conversations I've read in various Threads (I've been lurking for a while), I am confident that I will get the advice I need here.
    So I'm not that upset, just puzzled and disappointed.

    In fact, it was a picture/diagram from one of his websites that even gave me the idea of modifying the rocker to increase loading capacity.
    He took a Goose, shrank it for some reason (2/3 or so) and then the displacement became too low. He "deepened" the rocker and it got from 143kg to 215kg.
    I saved it to my "Notes" word doc and kept looking at it and thinking and then I thought I can do the same but without scaling the Goose down.

    I was never that sure about it, and now, after the 100% "don't change it" response, I will not do it, of course, I'll build the hull exactly as per plan.
    As mentioned above, the smaller boat came first. Mik and I were both encouraged by the man who kicked off the Puddleduck racer thing, to design boats to his rules. There are very few of those but one major rule is to do with the rocker in the bottom, and he had a tolerance allowance on that curve. Mike and I, unknown to each other, checked the "rule measurements" and found them unfair, ( not an even curve) plus that there was an advantage to be gained by working within the tolerance to flatten the ends of the curve a little.
    Both Mik and I had permission from "the man" to charge a nominal amount for the plans, in return for which we'd put some time into promoting the class. But it was the thought that we were making a buck ( a very small buck) out of "his idea" plus the fact that mine was in metric measurement that caused an argument that saw Mik and I leaving the class.

    But the boats are remarkably good for a straight sided box, with the right rig ( we two used quite different rigs but they both work very well).

    Mik went on to design the "Goose" using the experience gained from the smaller Puddleduck Racer, and the Goose as designed is a remarkably quick and good handling boat. I design boats as part of my livelihood, and I wouldnt change it at all.

    Note that Mik Storer is a one man operation like me, and that over Christmas, being summertime here in the southern hemisphere, he's on holiday in Australia with his family.

    John Welsford
    An expert is but a beginner with experience.

  16. #16
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    Default Re: 1st Build Qs: 1. About hull rocker and increasing displacement

    Swoody, yes, I liked what I saw of the Ooze Goose but I thought it was too much for my first built.
    I did not get the plans but saw build pictures and it looks more complicated than the original Oz Goose with a lot of extra timber added.
    I am interested in trying a yawl rig on my Goose (as an addition later) as I've read so much about it that I liked.

    As it happens, my current plan is that my second boat will be one of Jim Michalak's cabin boats, and I incline to one of the Birdwatcher style designs (quite suitable for Scotland weather I think). Of course that is subject to change as I expect I'll learn a lot once I build and sail.
    For a few days I kept comparing and mulling over Michalak's Piccup Squared, his Twixt and the Oz Goose.
    I like his designs and I like his essays.

    In fact, because over the last 3-4 months of reading I discovered that many links to boat web pages (from other web pages or forums) are now broken, I've taken to saving pages on my hard drive just in case they disappear.
    I have a lot of Michalak's essays saved (more than half probably).

    I also saved a lot of Michael Storer's pages (the lug sail and in particular the rigging related info is so detailed). His method of starting with traditional knowledge and patterns, adding new materials and then incorporating real life experiences from many people to tweak and evolve a design appeals to me a lot.

    I am in a daze at the torrent of information available. What did people do 30 years ago when this was not on the web?
    Of course, I was around 30 years ago so I remember life without the internet and it seemed OK at the time but I'm wondering what could I have done then if I would have suddenly decided to build a boat and learn to sail?

    Yes, I could have build a Mirror dinghy or an Instant Boat (of course first I would have needed to stumble upon the book as no online bookshops and no Google). But in the 2 Payson books I have there are fewer sailing designs than I saw discussed in 2 days of browsing through this Forum. We have it so good now (in my opinion).

    As for dreaming of the boat and sailing in it, I've done way too much dreaming and too little doing. This weekend I'll set up the garage and next weekend I'll take the first cut.

    I take on board what you wrote about the various "improvements" to the standard PDR that turned out less successful than expected.
    I will stick as much as possible to the plans, though the 2 changes I want to make I will still make, but that's got more to do with materials and lack of skills rather than a change of design because I may delude myself that my idea is better (e.g. I read the analysis made on using an aluminium mast vs. hollow square mast for an Oz Racer which concluded Storer's mast design was a lot stiffer, but I'll still use aluminium spars, accepting it's a compromise, as for me wood spars would end up more expensive, harder to source good wood and the construction method is too much for me right now).

    Oooh, I'm so excited and eager to start, I won't even wait to buy all the tools and materials.

    And the fact that seven people answered my question (in just 1 day!) gives me a lot of confidence that there will be support for me, as if I would build and sail a boat in a village full of boat builders and designers willing to share their experience. It's like being an an apprentice with 100 craftsmen to learn from!

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    Default Re: 1st Build Qs: 1. About hull rocker and increasing displacement

    Quote Originally Posted by john welsford View Post

    Note that Mik Storer is a one man operation like me, and that over Christmas, being summertime here in the southern hemisphere, he's on holiday in Australia with his family.

    John Welsford
    Oh, I did not equate Xmas and NY with a long summer holiday (I guess I am northerly biased). And even though I know that Mr Storer now lives in the Philippines I did not think that he would visit family in Australia.
    In summary, I did not think. Facepalm time...

    Reading my earlier post, it looks quite whiny and bitter. I want to change it now (or rather I wish I had not wrote it) but I won't, as I should have known better and it will remind me to be more considerate in the future. And patient.


    As for my idea of changing the rocker, I've definitely given up on that now.

    However, I think this image I'm talking about (maybe I should learn how to attach an image according to the forum rules) is not about taking a Duck and enlarging it to a Goose. It's something more recent. I think he took the Goose and shrank it, I think for a kids version. I can't find the web page right now but it was definitely new.

    Hmm, I'll go read up on image attachment and post the image, just in case someone is interested...

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    Default Re: 1st Build Qs: 1. About hull rocker and increasing displacement

    Here is the image:

    shrunken goose.jpg

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    Default Re: 1st Build Qs: 1. About hull rocker and increasing displacement

    Quote Originally Posted by mmd View Post
    What Ben said. Messing with displacement & physical hull shape opens up the possibility of changing helm balance, stability, hull speed, etc. Lots of fish in the sea; best to look for a better one to catch. Build to plan, sell it, and build another (better) one. Sorry if this rains on your plans.
    The location is given as "Scotland" - selling within five years is a criminal offence - See "Recreational Craft Directive".

    Other than that, what everybody said.
    Creationists aren't mad - they're possessed of demons.

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    Default Re: 1st Build Qs: 1. About hull rocker and increasing displacement

    Selling!?
    Oh no, I'll never sell my first boat.

    I intend to keep it (and maintain it and fix it and use it as test bed for rigs/sails options) even if I build a second boat later (assuming it does not get sunk or otherwise destroyed in its first year, which is not inconceivable given my 0 sailing experience).

    But I did not know about this law.
    I guess it makes sense as if it lasts for 5 years it likely to have a minimum level of build integrity and quality, sort of like Taleb's theory that the more something (object, process, design) has been around and in usage the more fit for purpose it should be assumed to be.

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    East Quogue,NY
    Posts
    16,528

    Default Re: 1st Build Qs: 1. About hull rocker and increasing displacement

    The location is given as "Scotland" - selling within five years is a criminal offence - See "Recreational Craft Directive".
    If Brexit occurs, though, Scotland will no longer be in the EU and then the boat can be sold at will( In Scotland or other non-EU country). Correct?

    Kevin
    There are two kinds of boaters: those who have run aground, and those who lie about it.

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Deepest Darkest Wales
    Posts
    20,075

    Default Re: 1st Build Qs: 1. About hull rocker and increasing displacement

    Quote Originally Posted by Breakaway View Post
    If Brexit occurs, though, Scotland will no longer be in the EU and then the boat can be sold at will( In Scotland or other non-EU country). Correct?

    Kevin
    No, sorry - those rules are now part of UK law and likely to remain.

    There are some escape clauses - canoes, kayaks, race craft and historical replicas - for instance.
    Creationists aren't mad - they're possessed of demons.

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    235

    Default Re: 1st Build Qs: 1. About hull rocker and increasing displacement

    Quote Originally Posted by P.I. Stazzer-Newt View Post
    There are some escape clauses - canoes, kayaks, race craft and historical replicas - for instance.
    A goose built to plan would/should qualify as a racer, might depend on intrepretation of ruling body of government.

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Between Bourgeoisie and Proletariat - Australia
    Posts
    2,888

    Default 1st Build Qs: 1. About hull rocker and increasing displacement

    Build to plan, adapt yourself to the compromises. All boats are just a list of compromises. Speed/Safety/Comfort - where do you put your emphasis. Changing a design should be left to things like cup holder placement and what kind of wood for the trim.

    Leave your spars for a while and then make them out of wood. You will be happy you did. It does not take a great carpenter to make spars, just get nice clear timber with a good grain and it will look after you.

    Remember, bad carpentry can make for a good epoxy join. (Within reason that is).


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Philip K. Dick ó 'Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away'.

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    2,562

    Default Re: 1st Build Qs: 1. About hull rocker and increasing displacement

    Quote Originally Posted by gypsie View Post

    Remember, bad carpentry can make for a good epoxy join. (Within reason that is).

    Oooo,I think that's the new motto for my business, Bodgy Boats Ltd, to sit alongside the old motto of "we may be slow, but at least we're rough".

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