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Thread: Dem's propose background checks…..

  1. #36
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    Default Re: Dem's propose background checks…..

    Quote Originally Posted by gypsie View Post
    1788

    Some say January 26th - we're about to 'celebrate' it.
    Ah - like our 1620 invasion...
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  2. #37
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    Default Re: Dem's propose background checks…..

    Quote Originally Posted by gypsie View Post
    1788

    Some say January 26th - we're about to 'celebrate' it.
    !
    "Simple minds discuss people, Average minds discuss things, and Great minds discuss ideas".

  3. #38
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    Default Re: Dem's propose background checks…..

    Quote Originally Posted by J.Madison View Post
    I am a gun owner who fully supports universal background checks! I passed background checks to acquire my firearms, and everyone else should have to do the same. That is the most basic bare minimum of common sense.

    There are other good rules that should be implemented too, but this is a good start.
    Yes. Washington state is leading the way on this and more. It's reasonable and there are no problems with it from my point of view.

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    Default Re: Dem's propose background checks…..

    Quote Originally Posted by Garret View Post

    While you're at it, tell me how your 30-06 or AR is gonna stop a tank or an APC.
    come on man, you ain't never seen red dawn?
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

  5. #40
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    Default Re: Dem's propose background checks…..

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pless View Post
    come on man, you ain't never seen red dawn?
    I saw Afghanistan. Does that count?
    "Simple minds discuss people, Average minds discuss things, and Great minds discuss ideas".

  6. #41
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    Default Re: Dem's propose background checks…..

    Quote Originally Posted by Gib Etheridge View Post

    Now, to answer my own questions, ammunition sales along with reloading supplies would be much much easier to regulate, even severely curtail. I think that's how I would go about it. Let the doinks arm themselves to the teeth but don't let them have any ammo. That could be the new prohibition along with the new black market. You'd actually need a wall to stop the smuggling. Now we're talking!
    Do you have even a rough idea of how much ammo the typical gun owner might have? If there really are 300,000,000 guns in the country, then I would bet that there are at least 300,000,000,000 rounds of various calibers in individual hands. It's not that most gun owners stock up on ammo for nefarious purposes. You see a good, economical deal on say a thousand rounds and you buy it. Most purchases are infrequent for normal, law abiding gun owners.

  7. #42
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    Default Re: Dem's propose background checks…..

    I am a gun owner and I do not object to this legislation.

    I will ask, though, that, if criminals ignore laws against murder, why would they adhere to this?

    Kevin
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  8. #43
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    Default Re: Dem's propose background checks…..

    Anyone read it yet?..

    https://www.murphy.senate.gov/downlo...-expansion-act

    ‘‘(2) Paragraph (1) shall not apply to—

    ‘‘(B) a transfer that is a loan or bona fide gift2 between spouses, between domestic partners, be3 tween parents and their children, between siblings,4 between aunts or uncles and their nieces or nephews,5 or between grandparents and their grandchildren;
    So the Sandy Hook situation would still not be addressed. In fact, it appears this law would have prevented very few of the mass shootings to date.

    Nothing in there about how to pay for the additional checks. Or how it happens? Will everyone be able call the TWIC's number and get an instant approval, just like FFL's do now? I hope so. That would be the best way for it to work.
    "Simple minds discuss people, Average minds discuss things, and Great minds discuss ideas".

  9. #44
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    Default Re: Dem's propose background checks…..

    Quote Originally Posted by BrianW View Post

    Or how it happens? Will everyone be able call the TWIC's number and get an instant approval, just like FFL's do now? I hope so. That would be the best way for it to work.
    In Washington state for private transactions you go to a licensed FFL holder, store or otherwise, and do the paperwork there for a nominal fee, round 30 bucks. They don't call in for the background check anymore. The dealer does it on line. It's amazing how fast the background approval comes in, there's essentially no wait (but I'm not a criminal).

    I was talking to the dealer I frequent about this, he says he gets rejections on background checks all the time. He was surprised that people who should know that they won't be approved still try. He' says he's never had a problem with them, they just walk out of the store, no fuss.

  10. #45
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    Default Re: Dem's propose background checks…..

    So the system works as far as it goes, good. As I said never let the perfect be the enemy of the good'.

    It will never be perfect, it never is anywhere. But it's a matter of hasten slowly, there's a lot of history and resistance to overcome a you will need some very brave legislators to carry it through.

  11. #46
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    Default Re: Dem's propose background checks…..

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Wright View Post
    In Washington state for private transactions you go to a licensed FFL holder, store or otherwise, and do the paperwork there for a nominal fee, round 30 bucks. They don't call in for the background check anymore. The dealer does it on line. It's amazing how fast the background approval comes in, there's essentially no wait (but I'm not a criminal).
    I think they'd get better participation, and less resistance, if they allowed everyone to use the online system.

    But... as there's nothing in the bill about it, that I can find, I don't think they're serious about it.
    "Simple minds discuss people, Average minds discuss things, and Great minds discuss ideas".

  12. #47
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    Default Re: Dem's propose background checks…..

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Wright View Post
    Do you have even a rough idea of how much ammo the typical gun owner might have? If there really are 300,000,000 guns in the country, then I would bet that there are at least 300,000,000,000 rounds of various calibers in individual hands. It's not that most gun owners stock up on ammo for nefarious purposes. You see a good, economical deal on say a thousand rounds and you buy it. Most purchases are infrequent for normal, law abiding gun owners.
    You can have as much ammo as you like but if your argument is that you have a weapon as protection against your own government or an invading country. Then you are delusional...not you personally Dave.
    The definition of stupid has got to be the belief that more guns will negate the bloodshed done with guns.

  13. #48
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    Default Re: Dem's propose background checks…..

    I reckon a bit too much 'Hollywood movie' is involved in that bit of fantasy. The ballot box and the constitution, properly used, is the protection against your own government. But you have to use it, not opt out or just pick the bits you like.

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    Default Re: Dem's propose background checks…..

    Quote Originally Posted by RonW View Post
    Well I think the americans are not going to give up their guns like the australians did. We don't bow to the queen or king. That's what I think. Do you think ?
    We don't bow to a king or queen either. Their representatives are basically a ceremonial and procedural figurehead.

    It is odd that you are advocating US citizens being required to carry auzweis, while making remarks about other countries that imply that they lack freedom. We threw out the ID card system you want everyone in the US to carry.
    Last edited by Chris249; 01-10-2019 at 06:58 AM.

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    Default Re: Dem's propose background checks…..

    Quote Originally Posted by Breakaway View Post
    I am a gun owner and I do not object to this legislation.

    I will ask, though, that, if criminals ignore laws against murder, why would they adhere to this?

    Kevin
    By that line of reasoning, we should have no laws at all. After all, criminals ignore laws against murder as you say, so why have them?

    In reality what happens is that criminals don't like to risk being arrested, convicted and imprisoned on charges of carrying an illegal firearm, so they don't do it as often. They may also know that if they do (for example) a bank job with guns and get caught, it could be an extra year or more in stir for them.

    It's the same as any other law - you won't get 100% compliance but you can get significant compliance and therefore reduced harm.

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    Default Re: Dem's propose background checks…..

    Quote Originally Posted by RonW View Post

    Other countries will never invade us.
    Why do you have so little faith in your military and their ability to stop invasion?

    Why do you have so little faith in your constitution and its ability to protect your rights against the government?

    Isn't that lack of faith in the US military and the Founding Fathers very un-American?

  17. #52
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    Default Re: Dem's propose background checks…..

    Ah Chris, it's protection FROM the US government and the US military that RonW is about.

    They haven't gotten over the civil war yet. More Hollywood or some such.

    (where is RonW from BTW)

  18. #53
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    Default Re: Dem's propose background checks…..

    Quote Originally Posted by BrianW View Post
    I saw Afghanistan. Does that count?
    It does. They have generations of training for fighting against outsiders. More than just deer rifles & ARs too...
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

  19. #54
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    Default Re: Dem's propose background checks…..

    I read that sandy hook was a galvanizing event for the gun control movement, not that this was to prevent the next sandy hook. Perhaps a strong enough back ground check law would prevent guns in households with someone with mental illness. That might prevent the next sandy hook. But to suggest that we do nothing because this would not have prevented sandy hook is just introducing a red herring into the debate. We do what we can do. That’s the best we can do.
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    Default Re: Dem's propose background checks…..

    Has anyone else noted the irony of the situation here. The people that are arguing FOR a border wall, because it will make us safe from something that has an extremely small likelihood of happening (being attacked by an immigrant) are the same people who argue AGAINST regulating guns for the purpose of keeping us safe from something that might happen.

    I mean seriously, if you replace the word "immigrant" with the word "gun" in these border wall arguments, its pretty much the same argument the left has been making for years.

    So now R's, there are two options. Either the border wall argument is good, and therefore the gun control argument is as well (because remember, they are pretty much the same thing...if P, then Q...P, therefore Q) so you may want to get behind some of that stuff.

    Or the gun control argument is bad (which you--the near entirety of the right-have been saying for years) and therefore the border wall argument is also bad, because again, the two arguments are about the same thing.

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    Default Re: Dem's propose background checks…..

    Quote Originally Posted by skuthorp View Post
    Polls say 90% of US citizens want stronger checks……………………. Could be on a winner.
    And 100% of the Moron Horde are against this.
    Rattling the teacups.

  22. #57
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    Default Re: Dem's propose background checks…..

    Quote Originally Posted by WX View Post
    You can have as much ammo as you like but if your argument is that you have a weapon as protection against your own government or an invading country. Then you are delusional...not you personally Dave.
    I really like this country and I enjoy living here. I find it extremely worrisome and even treasonous when I hear idle talk of overthrowing our government with force. It's hard for me to imagine a situation here where this would be legitimate. On the other hand, when people say it is impossible and delusional to bring down a government and it's military forces with small arms (and this "impossiblity" is often touted here in the bilge) I worry just as much.

    A couple of men with "deer rifles" can do untold damage, shut down a medium sized city, and hamstring it's police force. Using sophisticated, high power weaponry to ferret them out would result in even greater infrastructure damage. We are a society of jumbo aircraft, jumbo fuel tanker trucks, chemical plants, and much, much more.

    Sure, the "government" may beat insurgents, but very likely high intensity security and / or martial law would result, and the society radically changed. Telling the wackos that they can't do it is a pointless and irresponsible challenge. We operate on consensus and a sense of legitimacy, and we have to continue to. It's worked reasonably well so far, and I hope that it continues to.

  23. #58
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    Default Re: Dem's propose background checks…..

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris249 View Post
    We don't bow to a king or queen either. Their representatives are basically a ceremonial and procedural figurehead.

    It is odd that you are advocating US citizens being required to carry auzweis, while making remarks about other countries that imply that they lack freedom. We threw out the ID card system you want everyone in the US to carry.
    WE, WE, WE, just who is we, ? What country are you referring to ?

  24. #59
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    Default Re: Dem's propose background checks…..

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Wright View Post
    I really like this country and I enjoy living here. I find it extremely worrisome and even treasonous when I hear idle talk of overthrowing our government with force. It's hard for me to imagine a situation here where this would be legitimate. On the other hand, when people say it is impossible and delusional to bring down a government and it's military forces with small arms (and this "impossiblity" is often touted here in the bilge) I worry just as much.

    A couple of men with "deer rifles" can do untold damage, shut down a medium sized city, and hamstring it's police force. Using sophisticated, high power weaponry to ferret them out would result in even greater infrastructure damage. We are a society of jumbo aircraft, jumbo fuel tanker trucks, chemical plants, and much, much more.

    Sure, the "government" may beat insurgents, but very likely high intensity security and / or martial law would result, and the society radically changed. Telling the wackos that they can't do it is a pointless and irresponsible challenge. We operate on consensus and a sense of legitimacy, and we have to continue to. It's worked reasonably well so far, and I hope that it continues to.
    This is true. Look how a manhunt by the local police can completely shut down a town. We had one here recently where somebody was spotted NEAR a school with a rifle. Nothing came of it, nobody was found, and life went on. For six hours though, everything within a mile of that school was shut down and blocked off. While even a good sized militia type force could never take down Washington, or even a state capital, the damage they could do to the basic fabric of society would take a lot of time to repair
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    Default Re: Dem's propose background checks…..

    By that line of reasoning, we should have no laws at all. After all, criminals ignore laws against murder as you say, so why have them?
    That misses the point, I'm afraid. The laws against murder or armed robbery are necessary to keep most people from going down that road. They wont stop criminals. They carry penalties much more severe than possession or purchase laws. The person with intent to murder likely wont concern himself with a minor regulation, already having decided to break the bigger one.



    In reality what happens is that criminals don't like to risk being arrested, convicted and imprisoned on charges of carrying an illegal firearm, so they don't do it as often. They may also know that if they do (for example) a bank job with guns and get caught, it could be an extra year or more in stir for them.
    Such laws are already in place and have been for a long time.

    It's the same as any other law - you won't get 100% compliance but you can get significant compliance and therefore reduced harm.
    For the most part, those that will readily comply are not those anyone need worry about.

    None of this is to say that I don't think there is a gun problem. I just believe that more laws are not the answer to that problem. What is the answer? I don't know. It doesn't appear that anyone does.

    Kevin
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    Default Re: Dem's propose background checks…..

    Quote Originally Posted by Garret View Post
    It does. They have generations of training for fighting against outsiders. More than just deer rifles & ARs too...
    Certainly agree with you that they have lots of experience in beating invading superior armies. Because they've repeatedly proven it can be done.

    They do it with weapons much crappier than deer rifles and AR's.
    "Simple minds discuss people, Average minds discuss things, and Great minds discuss ideas".

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    Default Re: Dem's propose background checks…..

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris249 View Post
    Why do you have so little faith in your military and their ability to stop invasion?
    ?
    You mean the military that has been unable to “win” in Afghanistan despite having an available budget equal to the nine next largest nations COMBINED?
    The military that has been unable to capture or kill OBL’s COO (Zawahiri) despite being at it for the better part of 2 decades?

    Drones, satellites, special forces, stealth aircraft etc.

    You mean that military?

    Oh, sorry, got off subject there. I do support background checks for ALL firearms purchases. You have to pass one to get on a jet, get a drivers license.
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  28. #63
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    Default Re: Dem's propose background checks…..

    I simply don’t get why owning a gun can not be like owning a car. Simple it needs to be registered it has to have a clean title, insurance and a point system like driving. You need to pass a written and range test and you just cant give someone your car and they drive it away you have to sign the title they have to register the car and they have to be licensed to own it. If their license is suspended they cant use the car.

    Why is this so hard to understand ? Just treat it exactly like you would a cars. Yea sure people steal car, people drive DUI, people have accidents but there is a regulation in place that almost ALL people simply abide by. Why is a 3,000 lb projectile any different ?

    The second amendment was not written on tablets by God its a freaking AMENDMENT fooking amend it.
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  29. #64
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    Default Re: Dem's propose background checks…..

    Quote Originally Posted by Breakaway View Post
    What is the answer? I don't know. It doesn't appear that anyone does.

    Kevin
    certainly the right and those backed by the nra don't have any answers. . .
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

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    Default Re: Dem's propose background checks…..

    Quote Originally Posted by skuthorp View Post
    Ah Chris, it's protection FROM the US government and the US military that RonW is about.

    They haven't gotten over the civil war yet. More Hollywood or some such.

    (where is RonW from BTW)
    Yep, I know. The thing is that the right worships the Constitution and Founding Fathers, but they also claim they need defence against the government that the Constitution created.

    That doesn't make sense. If their political system, as created by the Constitution and Founding Fathers, is a good one then they don't need to be defended against the government. If the system is a bad one, surely they should change the system rather than worrying about an unequal combat.

  31. #66
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    Default Re: Dem's propose background checks…..

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris249 View Post
    Yep, I know. The thing is that the right worships the Constitution and Founding Fathers, but they also claim they need defence against the government that the Constitution created.

    That doesn't make sense. If their political system, as created by the Constitution and Founding Fathers, is a good one then they don't need to be defended against the government. If the system is a bad one, surely they should change the system rather than worrying about an unequal combat.
    Yeah - but when those Dems get in control, it's not a good one!
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    Default Re: Dem's propose background checks…..

    Quote Originally Posted by RonW View Post
    WE, WE, WE, just who is we, ? What country are you referring to ?
    Australia mate, land of the free.
    The definition of stupid has got to be the belief that more guns will negate the bloodshed done with guns.

  33. #68
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    Default Re: Dem's propose background checks…..

    Quote Originally Posted by BrianW View Post
    Certainly agree with you that they have lots of experience in beating invading superior armies. Because they've repeatedly proven it can be done.

    They do it with weapons much crappier than deer rifles and AR's.
    True but how many RonWs do you reckon are actually willing to die for the cause?
    The definition of stupid has got to be the belief that more guns will negate the bloodshed done with guns.

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    Default Re: Dem's propose background checks…..

    Quote Originally Posted by J.Madison View Post
    I am a gun owner who fully supports universal background checks! I passed background checks to acquire my firearms, and everyone else should have to do the same. That is the most basic bare minimum of common sense. .
    Exactly! I own multiple firearms and gladly condone background checks and restrictions on ownership.

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    Default Re: Dem's propose background checks…..

    Quote Originally Posted by Reynard38 View Post
    You mean the military that has been unable to “win” in Afghanistan despite having an available budget equal to the nine next largest nations COMBINED?
    The military that has been unable to capture or kill OBL’s COO (Zawahiri) despite being at it for the better part of 2 decades?

    Drones, satellites, special forces, stealth aircraft etc.

    You mean that military?

    Oh, sorry, got off subject there. I do support background checks for ALL firearms purchases. You have to pass one to get on a jet, get a drivers license.
    But Ron was talking about citizens protecting the USA from an invading army, which is utterly different from Afghanistan. The Brits suffered a major defeat in Afghanistan in the 1800s, the USSR in the 1900s, but they were not invaded.

    Defeat in Afghanistan does not relate to the sort of situation Ron was talking about.

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