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Thread: Permission to build one class sailboat or license?

  1. #1
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    Default Permission to build one class sailboat or license?

    I am a first time One Class sailboat builder.
    What is a Permission to build a One Class sailboat?
    What is a License to build a One Class sailboat?
    How are they different from one and another, or are they different?
    Is there a charge for them?
    I am confused, and donít want to have boats band by the International Sailing Federation (ISAF) from racing some were.
    Wet behind the ears!
    John

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Permission to build one class sailboat or license?

    If you are talking about one-design class sailboats, the rules vary from class to class. Generally, plans from a designer or class come with permission to build one boat.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Permission to build one class sailboat or license?

    What Thad said.
    I've never heard of a "One" class, if that's what you are talking about, but the same should apply.

    In addition: One design racing: https://www.ussailing.org/competitio...l-boat-racing/
    "One-design is a form of racing where all boats are virtually identical or similar in design. Class-legal boats race each other without any handicap calculations, start at the same time, and the winner is the first to cross the finish line.There are more than 150 actively raced one-design classes in the U.S. The classes range from eight-foot Optimist dinghies to the 12 Meter sailboats and beyond."

    If one builds a boat to race with others of the type, one must be careful to adhere to all the measurements of hull and rig for that class. If that's not done, then the boat won't be the same as the others in that class, and won't be legal for class racing.
    Some classes are more persnickety than others - for instance, it is notoriously difficult to home-build a seemingly simple Optimist pram that will be class legal.

    One can still race boats under a handicap system - no one-design fleet needed (and no class rules need be heeded).
    Dave
    Last edited by DGentry; 01-08-2019 at 10:49 AM.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Permission to build one class sailboat or license?

    I've not heard of any one-design or development class sailboat called "One Class".

    If you have a particular one-design class boat in mind, please do let us know. Some racing classes such as the venerable Lightening encourage all builders, including amateur home builders, and have class association measurers to ensure that the built boat complies. The Nantucket Alerion has but one licensed builder. The LFH "Doughdish" has two.

    So please give us a hint as to what you're looking at.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Permission to build one class sailboat or license?

    Dave,
    Thanks for the great information!

    Ian,
    I have done some Body planes, Table of Offsets, and Construction Planes w/ Specifications of a inspired by Herreshoff's 15 ft. One Design Class, full keeled sailboat in the tradition of Flicker, Dad, or Marjorie. (referred to as the Buzzards Bay 15' and Newport 15')
    The International Dragon One Design Class has a more modern designed foil shapes in her hull, keel, and sails that have been making it hard to chose between the two. I have a lot of work to do before I would cut down any trees.
    The Lighting you spoke of is a smaller plywood version of the International Star One Class, as you would know. I have own and refurbished Wishing Star, along with a 1954 hot molded Jet 14', I worked with the Jet 14, Class Association to recover her number, we think she is #286. "balloon on a stick, so they say"
    I also have 3 Sunfish that I go out with friends on. I taught sailing and canoeing at a small collage, gets in the blood.https://www.woodenboat.com/register-...wishing-star-0




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    Last edited by John Howland; 01-09-2019 at 03:00 PM.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Permission to build one class sailboat or license?

    So, is this a brand new, not yet built class of boat? If so I cannot see you needing permission. What you need is either a slick marketing strategy or sponsorship by some wealthy sailing club to facilitate building a fleet.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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    Default Re: Permission to build one class sailboat or license?

    Nick,
    I think that MIT has some limited planes for the Buzzard Bay 15'. They are in the middle of putting all of the Herreshoff collection on line. I have been waiting for a couple of month to get plans and am waiting to see what they have. So I started some on my own for what I could find on the internet. I am a sculptor / wood carver so taking lines would old stuff. I plan on updating the Body Plans and Table of Offsets when I can get a set of planes. I don't know what the legal issue are yet so that is another reason for plan B, or the International Dragon One Design Class. The Dragon rigging is the wonderful thing, even more advanced than the International Star One Design Class.
    As for the Sponsorship or Club, well hope is eternal.

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    Default Re: Permission to build one class sailboat or license?

    With those snazzy carved lions' heads, I would have expected you were working on building a Seventeenth Century ship-of-the-line!


  9. #9
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    Default Re: Permission to build one class sailboat or license?

    Quote Originally Posted by John Howland View Post
    Nick,
    I think that MIT has some limited planes for the Buzzard Bay 15'. They are in the middle of putting all of the Herreshoff collection on line. I have been waiting for a couple of month to get plans and am waiting to see what they have. So I started some on my own for what I could find on the internet. I am a sculptor / wood carver so taking lines would old stuff. I plan on updating the Body Plans and Table of Offsets when I can get a set of planes. I don't know what the legal issue are yet so that is another reason for plan B, or the International Dragon One Design Class. The Dragon rigging is the wonderful thing, even more advanced than the International Star One Design Class.
    As for the Sponsorship or Club, well hope is eternal.
    By updating are you meaning changing the shape so that it is a different boat? Or are you trying to make an accurate copy from the plans that you have?
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  10. #10
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    Default Re: Permission to build one class sailboat or license?

    Quote Originally Posted by John Howland View Post
    Nick,
    I think that MIT has some limited planes for the Buzzard Bay 15'. They are in the middle of putting all of the Herreshoff collection on line. I have been waiting for a couple of month to get plans and am waiting to see what they have. So I started some on my own for what I could find on the internet. I am a sculptor / wood carver so taking lines would old stuff. I plan on updating the Body Plans and Table of Offsets when I can get a set of planes. I don't know what the legal issue are yet so that is another reason for plan B, or the International Dragon One Design Class. The Dragon rigging is the wonderful thing, even more advanced than the International Star One Design Class.
    As for the Sponsorship or Club, well hope is eternal.
    I'm not certain enough to offer this as legal advice, but I believe that the MIT NGH plans, as well as the Mystic Seaport LFH plans in their collections now being donated to MIT can now be built without a license to build. They have a disclaimer that the plans are provided for research and modeling purposes only and that there are no warranties that they are suitable for building a real vessel. Many of LFH's plans, of course, are in the public domain, having been published in Rudder expressly for the DIY builder. On the other hand, the MIT NGH collection primarily contains only tables of offsets for specific hull designs because NGH designed from half-models and then lifted the offsets from the half-models with a device of his own design.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Permission to build one class sailboat or license?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Cleek View Post
    With those snazzy carved lions' heads, I would have expected you were working on building a Seventeenth Century ship-of-the-line!

    Bob,
    If some one had the funds, I know some people that would help.
    A boat seems better than a piece of furniture to me, mostly because after you hang your carvings on it you can go sailing.

  12. #12
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    Default

    Maybe it means you need permission from both designer ( buy plans) and tge class association.

    Kevin


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    There are two kinds of boaters: those who have run aground, and those who lie about it.

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Permission to build one class sailboat or license?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Cleek View Post
    I'm not certain enough to offer this as legal advice, but I believe that the MIT NGH plans, as well as the Mystic Seaport LFH plans in their collections now being donated to MIT can now be built without a license to build. They have a disclaimer that the plans are provided for research and modeling purposes only and that there are no warranties that they are suitable for building a real vessel. Many of LFH's plans, of course, are in the public domain, having been published in Rudder expressly for the DIY builder. On the other hand, the MIT NGH collection primarily contains only tables of offsets for specific hull designs because NGH designed from half-models and then lifted the offsets from the half-models with a device of his own design.
    Bob,
    You hit the nail on the head, not much out there on the BB 15'.
    If it was easy, every one would have done it. I started a 1/3 scale model 8' over all from what I have so far.
    The Mystic Seaport planes seem like they flattened out her hull and got rid of some of her curves to make her a little faster on the water and easier to build.
    John

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Permission to build one class sailboat or license?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    By updating are you meaning changing the shape so that it is a different boat? Or are you trying to make an accurate copy from the plans that you have?
    I am not sure how I would react if someone was building one of my designs with or without permission is where I stand at this point. I have a great admiration for the Herrreshoff's legacy and don't know the rules yet. That is why I have a plan B.

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Permission to build one class sailboat or license?

    To build Meg Merrilies, an LFH Golden Ball, I bought the plans from Mystic. Had to certify that only one boat would be built to those plans.

    Joel White's Haven is regarded by some as a dodge to get around selling LFH plans, but in fact the boat has some interesting and subtle changes (more subtle than just the centerboard) that might well have amused LFH.

    For Meg I hired Michael Mason (this is no secret on the Forum) to do engineering for contemporary engines, all outside ballast, and some of my eccentricities. He has done similar work for two other LFH ketches. For complex adaptations of an existing design, this is necessary in any event.

    As far as I am concerned, by the way, Michael earned more than his fees getting one change just right. I did not like the cabin trunk extending past the main mast. In part that was because I did not want to step up to handle the halyards and in part it was that I did not like the port side companionway the LFH original called for. So I was planning what amounted to a sort of box over the fo'c's'le which Michael turned into a work of art.

    Sometimes that job is done by a non-engineer. The proprietor of First Light Boatworks, Woody Metzger, spent a great deal of time adjusting the coach house profile for the coachroof of "Empress of Blandings" . . . masterful.

    All great boats are so much a collective effort .

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Permission to build one class sailboat or license?

    I don't really understand what your question is but I'll try an answer anyhow.
    1. Nathanael G. Herreshoff died 1938 so copyright on all of his work has expired. You can build, multiply and sell however you wish.
    2. As the creator of original content you are the sole copyright owner of your work. How you choose to handle your rights is up to you. If you need legal advice about this, hire a specialized attorney.
    3. If you modify a copyrighted plan do it so the result is recognizable a different boat. What this amounts to is up to debate (in court if need be).

    The following is not legal advice, just my opinion:
    When it comes to boat design copyright you are basicly talking about three separate things.
    One is the actual drawing of the boat in whatever physical form. This is copyrighted like a book or your art is, meaning it can not be reproduced and distributed without permission. But it also means it can be resold without your permission, copied by the owner for private purposes, written upon, cut to pieces and so on. After you sell the physical plan the owner can do whatever he likes with it except selling or donating or publishing copies.
    The other thing is the right to build a boat after your plans. This is a separate right and is sold separatly. You can of course tie it to the plans if you like, but it's not mandatory.
    The third thing are the rights to the name of the design.
    You can manage one or both or all of your rights however you want. Example: you sell the complete rights to multiply and distribute your plan to a magazine and put the building and naming rights in the public domain. Now anybody buying the magazine or borrowing it from the library can legally build one or more boats and call it as you decided. You do not have any rights to the design anymore, the magazine can republish the plans as often as they like. Or you sell the magazine only a specified number of plans and building licenses and names all tied toghether. Now the guy buying the magazine has only the right to build one boat and the guy borrowing the magazine from the library can only look at the plans (enforcing that is another matter). You continue to sell plans and building licenses to other people and the magazine can only publish a finite number of copies.

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Permission to build one class sailboat or license?

    I also have an interest in the BB 15, which I find to be a remarkably attractive boat . . . and I got a partial set of plans from MIT, along with a sort of notebook. I believe I paid $ 25 for what I got. I believe they may be called study plans. The contact info for the MIT staff was available online. I think it was in the same area as their online Herreshoff presentation.

    I didn't really know what was in the notebook, and it would have been nice to have a Herreshoff translator, but I was able to use them as a sort of table of offsets. The plans and notebook were enough to keep me entertained and allowed me to loft the outside lines of the boat on my computer. And using the notebook I ended up with lines that look like the real thing, although I did a lot of guessing on the notations. But that is about as far as I have gotten and about as far as I will probably go.

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Permission to build one class sailboat or license?

    Ian,
    I have study Golden Ball in Sensible Cruising Designs by L Herreshoff. What a versatile shallow draft cruising ketch and roomy. The leeboards give her some access to shallow waters were many adventures begin.
    I agree, No man is an island and with Golden Ball you can go to the islands in style.

    Rumars,
    Thanks, I don’t know what my question is ether. There is much more to this messing about with sail boats than meets the eye. I will just keep reading asking questions and drawing, like always.
    Your answers explained much and have raised more questions to ask, I think that is a good thing.
    I have had a great experience with the Wooden Boat Forum and learned much.
    Thanks to all!
    John
    Last edited by John Howland; 01-10-2019 at 10:45 AM.

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