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Thread: Iím braced for the onslaught... xx

  1. #1
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    Default Iím braced for the onslaught... xx

    Happy New Year to all yall!

    Now for my question; ďLiving in the USA (not the song) trying to build a boat when the plans are all metric, do you convert to Imperial or stay with metric?Ē

    Simple answer is ask designer for plans with Imperial dimensions. If that isnít an option what do you do?

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Iím braced for the onslaught... xx

    Consider yourself lucky. Stay with metric.

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    Default Re: Iím braced for the onslaught... xx

    Get a two sided tape. Or a straight metric one.

    Iíve done it five times. No big deal. Theyíre just numbers.

    Peace,
    Robert

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    Default Re: Iím braced for the onslaught... xx

    Warning: you may end up loving metric and wishing we had adopted it like the rest of the world... Factors of 10 are so easy to deal with.

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    Default Re: Iím braced for the onslaught... xx

    Metric is much easier!



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    Metric markings on both sides of the blade

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    MORE AT.....
    Duckworks - Metric tape measures (LINK)


    #include [ std-disclaimer ]

    Hope the voyage is a long one.
    May there be many a summer morning when,
    with what pleasure, what joy,
    you come into harbors seen for the first time...

    Ithaka, by Cavafy
    (Keeley - Sherrard translation)

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Iím braced for the onslaught... xx

    OK I get it. What do you do about lumber? Mill it to metric?

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    Default Re: Iím braced for the onslaught... xx

    What Rob said...they're just numbers. What kind of boat are you building? S&G? Plank on Frame? You'll probably have to cut'shape the lumber regardless so it's a matter of buying stock that's big enough. America's going metric slowly anyway. Now if we can just convince the rest of the world to drive on the right ​sidee of the road we'll be making progress As an automotive designer I got tired of building two vehicle configurations for every model.

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    Default Re: Iím braced for the onslaught... xx

    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh MacD View Post
    What Rob said...they're just numbers. What kind of boat are you building? S&G? Plank on Frame? You'll probably have to cut'shape the lumber regardless so it's a matter of buying stock that's big enough. America's going metric slowly anyway. Now if we can just convince the rest of the world to drive on the right ​sidee of the road we'll be making progress As an automotive designer I got tired of building two vehicle configurations for every model.
    Plank on frame. Selway-Fisher ďElaine IIĒ. Used metric in one of my prior life experiences (job) so I understand. Just didnít know what to do with the lumber.
    Thanks!

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Iím braced for the onslaught... xx

    Sometimes you don't have to, it already is; somtimes you get oversized stock so that one cut gives matching paired pieces.

    What are you planning to build, out of what materials?

    PS. Happy New Year!
    PPS: Dang! Crossed posts,

    Hope the voyage is a long one.
    May there be many a summer morning when,
    with what pleasure, what joy,
    you come into harbors seen for the first time...

    Ithaka, by Cavafy
    (Keeley - Sherrard translation)

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Iím braced for the onslaught... xx

    I say mill to metric, and buy a tape measure that is all metric also. It’s much easier to work with than the hybrid ones. Also get a metric ruler.
    "Yeah, well, that's just, like your opinion man"
    -The Dude-

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    Default Re: Iím braced for the onslaught... xx

    Nice design choice! Looking forward to a build thread!

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    Default Re: Iím braced for the onslaught... xx

    There are scantilings that are critically related to other components of the boat, and need to be milled to the precise (metric) dimensions. There are scantlings that aren't critical, and close (Imperial or random) is just fine. If you're not sure how to distinguish - then, yes, mill everything to the given metric dimensions.
    David G
    Harbor Woodworks
    https://www.facebook.com/HarborWoodworks/

    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

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    Default Re: Iím braced for the onslaught... xx

    You'll find that a lot of lumber has already been milled to metric even though it may be labeled in Imperial at the yard or store.

    Jeff

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    Default Re: Iím braced for the onslaught... xx

    Quote Originally Posted by jpatrick View Post
    You'll find that a lot of lumber has already been milled to metric even though it may be labeled in Imperial at the yard or store.

    Jeff
    So true! If there's one thing a 'two-by-four' is NOT, that is two inches by four inches.

    Hope the voyage is a long one.
    May there be many a summer morning when,
    with what pleasure, what joy,
    you come into harbors seen for the first time...

    Ithaka, by Cavafy
    (Keeley - Sherrard translation)

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    Default Re: Iím braced for the onslaught... xx

    Quote Originally Posted by sharpiefan View Post
    So true! If there's one thing a 'two-by-four' is NOT, that is two inches by four inches.
    Here in NZ we've had metric for many years and a four by two is 90X45 kiln dry gauged, 94X47 gauged, both from 100X50 rough sawn.
    Decking and the like was often referred to as ex 100X40, paying homage to the rough sawn sizes.
    There is nothing quite as permanent as a good temporary repair.

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    Default Re: Iím braced for the onslaught... xx

    Quote Originally Posted by SCK47 View Post
    OK I get it. What do you do about lumber? Mill it to metric?
    Lumber is never the size that it claims to be.

    Softwood Lumber Dimensions

    Softwood lumber is generally used for framing walls and floors. In the United States, softwood lumber is governed by the National Institute of Standards American Softwood Lumber Standard (PS 20).
    North American Standard 1-by Lumber

    Nominal Size (inches) Actual Size (inches) Actual Size (mm)
    1 x 2 3/4 x 1 1/2 19 x 38
    1 x 3 3/4 x 2 1/2 19 x 64
    1 x 4 3/4 x 3 1/2 19 x 89
    1 x 6 3/4 x 5 1/2 19 x 140
    1 x 8 3/4 x 7 1/4 19 x 184
    1 x 10 3/4 x 9 1/4 19 x 235
    1 x 12 3/4 x 11 1/4 19 x 286

    and so on.
    https://www.archtoolbox.com/material...vs-actual.html
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  17. #17
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    Default Re: Iím braced for the onslaught... xx

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    Lumber is never the size that it claims to be.

    Softwood Lumber Dimensions

    Softwood lumber is generally used for framing walls and floors. In the United States, softwood lumber is governed by the National Institute of Standards American Softwood Lumber Standard (PS 20).
    North American Standard 1-by Lumber

    Nominal Size (inches) Actual Size (inches) Actual Size (mm)
    1 x 2 3/4 x 1 1/2 19 x 38
    1 x 3 3/4 x 2 1/2 19 x 64
    1 x 4 3/4 x 3 1/2 19 x 89
    1 x 6 3/4 x 5 1/2 19 x 140
    1 x 8 3/4 x 7 1/4 19 x 184
    1 x 10 3/4 x 9 1/4 19 x 235
    1 x 12 3/4 x 11 1/4 19 x 286

    and so on.
    https://www.archtoolbox.com/material...vs-actual.html
    Well I must say THANK YOU! This link and the information there is great!

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Iím braced for the onslaught... xx

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    Lumber is never the size that it claims to be.

    Softwood Lumber Dimensions

    Softwood lumber is generally used for framing walls and floors. In the United States, softwood lumber is governed by the National Institute of Standards American Softwood Lumber Standard (PS 20).
    North American Standard 1-by Lumber

    Nominal Size (inches) Actual Size (inches) Actual Size (mm)
    1 x 2 3/4 x 1 1/2 19 x 38
    1 x 3 3/4 x 2 1/2 19 x 64
    1 x 4 3/4 x 3 1/2 19 x 89
    1 x 6 3/4 x 5 1/2 19 x 140
    1 x 8 3/4 x 7 1/4 19 x 184
    1 x 10 3/4 x 9 1/4 19 x 235
    1 x 12 3/4 x 11 1/4 19 x 286

    and so on.
    https://www.archtoolbox.com/material...vs-actual.html
    One (of many) things I don’t understand, the material list calls for “Hardwood” with dimensions like: 25x25 and 4.4 m. That’s a 10”x10” board 14 1/2’ long?

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    Default Re: Iím braced for the onslaught... xx

    Quote Originally Posted by dinoa View Post
    Consider yourself lucky. Stay with metric.
    Buy a metric tape and a couple of metric steel rulers for the workbench.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

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    Default Re: Iím braced for the onslaught... xx

    Quote Originally Posted by SCK47 View Post
    One (of many) things I don’t understand, the material list calls for “Hardwood” with dimensions like: 25x25 and 4.4 m. That’s a 10”x10” board 14 1/2’ long?
    No an inch by an inch. 25mm (millimeters), and meters.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  21. #21
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    Default Re: Iím braced for the onslaught... xx

    Good grief. This is not a big deal and is a minor bump in the road to a good boat building job. Tapes with both metric and English measure are available and a hand calculator is cheap.
    Tom L

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    Default Re: Iím braced for the onslaught... xx

    The unique thing about the Lumberyard Skiff is that it is one of the few designs that can use off the shelf US lumber. Most designs require almost everything to be milled to a non-standard size. So as Rob said, it's just numbers.
    https://joshmadison.com/convert-for-windows/
    Management is the art of counting beans. Leadership is the art of making every being count. --Joe Finch

  23. #23
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    Default Re: Iím braced for the onslaught... xx

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Lathrop View Post
    Good grief. This is not a big deal and is a minor bump in the road to a good boat building job. Tapes with both metric and English measure are available and a hand calculator is cheap.
    Keith all due respect Tom - this is new to me so I’m sorry my questions have caused you so much grief. When I started the thread I said I was ready for the onslaught and I am. Didn’t realize there would be “angst” to go with it.

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    Default Re: Iím braced for the onslaught... xx

    Quote Originally Posted by SCK47 View Post
    Keith all due respect Tom - this is new to me so Iím sorry my questions have caused you so much grief. When I started the thread I said I was ready for the onslaught and I am. Didnít realize there would be ďangstĒ to go with it.
    Trivializing your consternation is our way of reassuring you that you will not have any real difficulty once you get going.
    Management is the art of counting beans. Leadership is the art of making every being count. --Joe Finch

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    Default Re: Iím braced for the onslaught... xx

    It great that you are asking these questions, instead of being frustrated in isolation. I think you will find that Fisher does all the dimensions in mm, these may be noted or not as such. For whatever reason in my brain I think in cm, also that is what most of the tape measures are in. So one inch is 25 mm or 2.5 cm. Just sliding the decmial point around.
    "Yeah, well, that's just, like your opinion man"
    -The Dude-

  26. #26
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    Default Re: Iím braced for the onslaught... xx

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt young View Post
    It great that you are asking these questions, instead of being frustrated in isolation. I think you will find that Fisher does all the dimensions in mm, these may be noted or not as such. For whatever reason in my brain I think in cm, also that is what most of the tape measures are in. So one inch is 25 mm or 2.5 cm. Just sliding the decmial point around.
    Thank you!

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    Default Re: Iím braced for the onslaught... xx

    Quote Originally Posted by MN Dave View Post
    Trivializing your consternation is our way of reassuring you that you will not have any real difficulty once you get going.
    Thank you!

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    Default Re: Iím braced for the onslaught... xx

    I’d like to thank all y’all for for patience and understanding as I work through my first build. I’m sure I’ll be back at some point with more questions or maybe an answer!

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    Default Re: Iím braced for the onslaught... xx

    You may find it helpful to play around in your head with this:


    It never strikes Americans as excessive to use two units to describe every dimension. Feet and inches are found everywhere, along with fractions.

    The same wall is then presented as it would be dimensioned and drawn using millimeters. The numbers are all simple integers.


    Example Wall With Metric Dimensions (click to enlarge)


    No Feet and inches, no fractions, no decimal points, and just one unit used for all sizes. The dimensions are easy for a novice or experienced builder to read clearly. Experience in Australia shows that workers will attempt to cut to the exact millimeter when given tools with that capability. We would have more accurately constructed buildings, which are more weather-tight, simply by switching to metric.

    MORE AT.....
    Building a Metric Shed (LINK)


    #include [ std-disclaimer ]

    Hope the voyage is a long one.
    May there be many a summer morning when,
    with what pleasure, what joy,
    you come into harbors seen for the first time...

    Ithaka, by Cavafy
    (Keeley - Sherrard translation)

  30. #30
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    Default Re: Iím braced for the onslaught... xx

    I'm trying not to be smug about being bilingual where measuring is concerned. I suppose I got used to 8 foot by 4 foot sheets of 9mm plywood.

  31. #31
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    Default Re: Iím braced for the onslaught... xx

    Quote Originally Posted by sharpiefan View Post
    You may find it helpful to play around in your head with this:

    MORE AT.....
    Building a Metric Shed (LINK)

    #include [ std-disclaimer ]
    Great link.

    It seems that my laptop needed to eat a cookie before the links worked without the forbidden page error. Opening http://themetricmaven.com fed my computer the cookie and the problem went away.

    On this page, not only our resistance to the metric system, but salesmen and Politics were explained for anyone who wonders what has been going on lately:
    http://themetricmaven.com/?p=1813
    Later I would learn from a salesman what this ploy actually was. It was FUD. In case you havenít heard of it, this is a salesmanís term for what to do if your companies products are clearly inferior to your competitors. You must instill your customer with Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt (FUD) about the alternative product. If you use a competitors electricity, it will burn all your toast! Your soft water will come out hard! X-rays will come out of your light bulbs! The electrons will spill on the floor, and act like tiny ball bearings and youíll slip! I hope you have health insurance! You better use Brand X electricity, or suffer the consequences!
    Management is the art of counting beans. Leadership is the art of making every being count. --Joe Finch

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    Default Re: Iím braced for the onslaught... xx

    Quote Originally Posted by sharpiefan View Post
    So true! If there's one thing a 'two-by-four' is NOT, that is two inches by four inches.
    Umm, yes they are. That's the dimensions if you rough. If you buy finished, then it is smaller in both dimensions cuz they milled some off to get it nice and smooth. That's where the numbers came from.

    p.s. The metric system sucks

  33. #33
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    Default Re: Iím braced for the onslaught... xx

    Think of 25 mm as ONE INCH. Just to start with.

    Get an all Metric tape , & rulers . Avoids confusion.

    You will do fine building in Metric.

    25 mm = 1 inch is just to get you started. Converting inches to metric , ( or vise versa ) is confusing and you are far more likely to make mistakes.
    If you are the smartest person in the room, you are in the wrong room.

  34. #34
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    Default Re: Iím braced for the onslaught... xx

    A pocket calculator might be helpful too.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  35. #35
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    Default Re: Iím braced for the onslaught... xx

    Quote Originally Posted by SCK47 View Post
    Keith all due respect Tom - this is new to me so I’m sorry my questions have caused you so much grief. When I started the thread I said I was ready for the onslaught and I am. Didn’t realize there would be “angst” to go with it.
    No grief here at all, nor any angst either. Sorry that you were so put off by my candor. I don't think one should ever apologize for telling the truth. I'm sure that once you really look at the issue you will see the answer is pretty simple and as Dave said, its just numbers that are easily correlated. Its 2.54cm or 25.4mm per inch not 25mm, which can make for appreciable errors using the rounded off figure on some measurements. Might as well get it right to start with.

    The lumber industry is not trying to fool or cheat buyers as some may conclude. The thicknessXwidth numbers represent the lumber as it comes from the mill and before any drying or finish dimension milling, so you are paying for the raw stock. Lumber is available in several stages from the raw wet state to dry but unplaned as well as minor surfaced one side, full surface one side, surfaced both sides, edged or not edged, on to the common final dimension that you buy in the store or yard. What you buy depends on what you want to do with it.
    Tom L

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