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Thread: Needed: Design suggestions for a small sailboat for an old guy

  1. #1
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    Default Needed: Design suggestions for a small sailboat for an old guy

    I built a Hvalsoe 13 five years ago and, while great for rowing, has proved too small for me to sail comfortably. I need something bigger with more buoyancy.
    What I'm looking for is a pure sailboat design, not something that is trying to be both sail and oar. I need the added beam of a sailboat for stability and roominess.
    I'm 65 and can't scoot around like a youngster anymore. Don't get me wrong, I still ski in the winter, so I'm not ready for the old folks home just yet, but want a boat I can sit comfortably in. If the wind craps out, I'll use a small electric trolling motor. I'll be sailing on protected waters.
    Maybe a catboat? Are there any 16'-17' Gil Smith cat boat designs?
    I've searched through WoodenBoat and can't seem to find anything that grabs me. I'd like a transomed boat so it has buoyancy in the stern to hold up my fat arse.(200lbs.)
    Here's what I'd need.
    - 16' or so
    - 5' or greater beam
    -transom sterned
    -round bottom
    -centerboard, no daggerboard
    -free standing rig or easily set up stayed rig
    -can be glued lap or strip planked.
    -I enjoy lofting, so detailed plans are not a requirement.

    Any ideas out there? Thanks.
    I was born on a wooden boat that I built myself.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Needed: Design suggestions for a small sailboat for an old guy

    I would look at catboats. Stable as a church, shallow draft and very forgiving boats that will sail to weather far better than they should.
    You might be surprised at how "big" a bettle cat is. A 16 foot catboat is a pretty good sized small boat, more than double the size of a 12 foot version.
    (There is a recent 14 foot "Beetle cat" that is interesting)

    edit;http://amateurboatbuilding.com/artic...oat/index.html

    https://store.mysticseaport.org/ship...d-catboat.html

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Needed: Design suggestions for a small sailboat for an old guy

    Rich, how about Oughtred’s Penny Fee, or Vivier’s Ebihen 16?

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    Default Re: Needed: Design suggestions for a small sailboat for an old guy

    Will you be sailing alone, or with company?

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    Default Re: Needed: Design suggestions for a small sailboat for an old guy

    Coquina?

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    Default Re: Needed: Design suggestions for a small sailboat for an old guy

    You could probably build a Welsford Navigator with an unstayed mainmast, but I think setup with the stayed rig is pretty simple. Meets most of your requirements (unless it isn't round-bottomed enough), but if you need a larger boat check out Pathfinder.

    http://www.jwboatdesigns.co.nz/plans/navigator/
    "The enemies of reason have a certain blind look."
    Doctor Jacquin to Lieutenant D'Hubert, in Ridley Scott's first major film _The Duellists_.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Needed: Design suggestions for a small sailboat for an old guy

    Or maybe...


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    Default Re: Needed: Design suggestions for a small sailboat for an old guy

    Spartina from Bolger. 15 '. Roundbilge glued lapstrake, transom, centreboard, gaff rig cat or sloop. A friend is building her or about to start. Last I heard he was lofting her. See 'Boats with an open mind'.

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    Default Re: Needed: Design suggestions for a small sailboat for an old guy

    Maybe this ? Or the 16 ?

    Plans at Duckworks

    Fisher Melonseed.jpg

    asd.png
    dsfa.jpg

    Melonseed17p8.jpg
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by beam reach; 12-21-2018 at 08:01 PM.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Needed: Design suggestions for a small sailboat for an old guy

    Quote Originally Posted by Canoeyawl View Post
    I would look at catboats. Stable as a church, shallow draft and very forgiving boats that will sail to weather far better than they should.
    You might be surprised at how "big" a bettle cat is. A 16 foot catboat is a pretty good sized small boat, more than double the size of a 12 foot version.
    (There is a recent 14 foot "Beetle cat" that is interesting)

    edit;http://amateurboatbuilding.com/artic...oat/index.html

    https://store.mysticseaport.org/ship...d-catboat.html
    I've got a sweet spot in my soul for Rushtons. I was raised in the Adirondacks and my sister has a farm about two miles from where Rushton's factory was in Canton, N.Y. I've built three Rushton designs already. I'll give this one a close look.
    I was born on a wooden boat that I built myself.

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    Default Re: Needed: Design suggestions for a small sailboat for an old guy

    Rich, my sailboat is a Somes Sound by John Brooks. This is a derivation of the H 12.5 and is a close cousin of the Haven. She might be heavier than you want but once a boat requires a trailer, so what's a few more pounds? I keep my boat on a mooring during the summer but she is easily day sailed. With a helper (who's trained) I can rig her in about 45 minutes. She isn't a thrill ride but not a dog and she's very comfortable. Your wife will like it. The boat is glued lapstrake, a process that you are quite familiar with. I built mine in about 16 months.

    Jeff

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    Default Re: Needed: Design suggestions for a small sailboat for an old guy

    Quote Originally Posted by John hartmann View Post
    Rich, how about Oughtred’s Penny Fee, or Vivier’s Ebihen 16?
    The Ebihen 16 looks intriguing. With that and your Ilur just 25 miles away, would that constitute a Vermont fleet of Vivier boats? I should take a second look at the Ilur also. It did seem plenty big the one time I was out on it with you.
    I was born on a wooden boat that I built myself.

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    Default Re: Needed: Design suggestions for a small sailboat for an old guy

    3FA01E1C-CBBF-419A-B74E-FBEC0E8049F1.gif 961886B0-EAF7-468B-AB59-94C4C6658CBE.jpeg

    http://www.selway-fisher.com/OtherDB.htm

    Fisher’s Baltic Luger. Certainly looks stable and comfortable. Strip built and free standing rig.
    "Yeah, well, that's just, like your opinion man"
    -The Dude-

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    Default Re: Needed: Design suggestions for a small sailboat for an old guy

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich Jones View Post
    I've got a sweet spot in my soul for Rushtons. I was raised in the Adirondacks and my sister has a farm about two miles from where Rushton's factory was in Canton, N.Y. I've built three Rushton designs already. I'll give this one a close look.
    Knowing the Vermont connection, I thought it might ring a bell. (I have a nephew in Burlington)
    Ruston's designs are indeed beautiful, a close look at the lines would be fun.

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    Default Re: Needed: Design suggestions for a small sailboat for an old guy

    I couldn't be happier with my 16' melonseed, plans from WB, modified with a bigger free standing rig. Stable, fast, easy to single hand and big enough to take 1, maybe 2, for crew. I'm only 66 but find it quite comfortable sitting on the floorboards.
    Steve B
    Sjogin IIIa
    PAYTON 13' Pea Pod

    RIVUS 16' Melonseed


    "If a man must be obsessed by something, I suppose a boat is as good as anything, perhaps a bit better than most." E. B. White

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    Default Re: Needed: Design suggestions for a small sailboat for an old guy

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich Jones View Post
    I've got a sweet spot in my soul for Rushtons. I was raised in the Adirondacks and my sister has a farm about two miles from where Rushton's factory was in Canton, N.Y. I've built three Rushton designs already. I'll give this one a close look.
    Rich, You are not far from the Adirondack Museum. I think they have one of these cats in the collection there. My Boats and Boating in the Adirondacks is not to hand so can't check. Worth a drive over for a look. Douglas Brooks lives up your way and he'd be worth contacting as well. The reconstruction might well be on Champlain somewhere.
    Ben Fuller
    Ran Tan, Liten Kuhling, Tipsy, Tippy, Josef W., Merry Mouth, Imp, Macavity, Look Far, Flash and a quiver of other 'yaks.
    "Bound fast is boatless man."

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    Default Re: Needed: Design suggestions for a small sailboat for an old guy

    Steve’s melonseed is a beautiful boat—I’ve sailed in company with him at the Small Reach Regatta for several years, and the boat is fast, weatherly, and seems to be surprisingly dry despite her low freeboard.
    Antonio Dias has a number of fine looking and sweet sailing small boats in his portfolio, including Small, at 14 feet:
    F912CDE4-48AB-4D62-AA8D-C2CC25279A98.jpg
    This image may deserve reposting in Peter Sibley’s “Small boat pron” thread......

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Needed: Design suggestions for a small sailboat for an old guy

    A couple of other images of Small:
    7D6763E2-CC3B-489D-A5D0-822628A754B8.jpgF29BD592-02CD-425D-A177-03AA1E4EB5A3.jpg

    There are some really lovely and functional details on this boat—have a close look at the outwale—stiffens the gunwale, diverts spray, and provides a wide enough perch to hike out comfortably.....and the sheet horse is similarly functional art. A horse like that for a fully battened standing lug misainer sail......hmmmm......

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Needed: Design suggestions for a small sailboat for an old guy

    I understand your parameters Rich. My next small boat will have a little more stability than my current dory, and a little more room. I loved my Melonseed for all of her virtues, but found her wet in a breeze, too wet for the winter sailing I do. I made that boat more comfortable by putting a board across the bilges to sit on. I also built a low bench when I had the 19' dory. That kept my weight low and still allowed me to move easily side to side. But I'd still like a boat similar to your description.

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Needed: Design suggestions for a small sailboat for an old guy


    Seconding Jeff's mention of the SS12 1/2.
    Steve

    Boats, like whiskey, are all good.
    R.D Culler

  21. #21
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    Default Re: Needed: Design suggestions for a small sailboat for an old guy

    I think Joel White's Marsh Cat hits all the buttons. A beautiful boat, too.
    4491799852_294a259048.jpg
    -Dave

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    Default Re: Needed: Design suggestions for a small sailboat for an old guy

    Quote Originally Posted by Woxbox View Post
    I think Joel White's Marsh Cat hits all the buttons. A beautiful boat, too.
    4491799852_294a259048.jpg
    It does look like a good contender. I just ordered the online digital study plans. The only question would be set up time at the ramp for that rig.
    I was born on a wooden boat that I built myself.

  23. #23
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    Default Re: Needed: Design suggestions for a small sailboat for an old guy

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich Jones View Post
    It does look like a good contender. I just ordered the online digital study plans. The only question would be set up time at the ramp for that rig.
    The lug rig is better for quick setup.

  24. #24
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    Default Re: Needed: Design suggestions for a small sailboat for an old guy

    I do love free-standing masts. Once when I was at the dock unrigging my Melonseed, a nearby fisherman observed. After I pulled out the mast and rolled up the sail, he remarked: "I thought you were going to fold the whole thing up and put it in your wallet!"

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    Default Re: Needed: Design suggestions for a small sailboat for an old guy

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich Jones View Post
    It does look like a good contender. I just ordered the online digital study plans. The only question would be set up time at the ramp for that rig.
    I'll bet you could put the mast in a tabernacle. With dyneema shrouds it would be a snap to set up.
    -Dave

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    Default Re: Needed: Design suggestions for a small sailboat for an old guy

    Quote Originally Posted by Woxbox View Post
    I'll bet you could put the mast in a tabernacle. With dyneema shrouds it would be a snap to set up.
    Good idea. I had one on my gaff sloop years ago.
    Not familiar with dyneema shrouds. Please explain?
    I was born on a wooden boat that I built myself.

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    Default Re: Needed: Design suggestions for a small sailboat for an old guy

    Rich - Important question: do you need a bench, or will you sit on the floor?
    Almost everything about boats involves so much more time and money than one anticipates that rational and accurate planning will deter even starting. Ian McColgin

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    Default Re: Needed: Design suggestions for a small sailboat for an old guy

    For a trailered boat where the mast is struck often, I think dyneema is far better than stainless wire. It's easy to set up and adjust, weighs nothing, and won't abrade the finish on the boat when your're on the road. There are all kinds of Utube tutorials and discussions on this forum. It's even available in a light tan color that suggests, from a distance anyway, traditional rigging. Deadeyes are even an option.
    -Dave

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    Default Re: Needed: Design suggestions for a small sailboat for an old guy

    Quote Originally Posted by minuteman View Post
    Rich - Important question: do you need a bench, or will you sit on the floor?
    I'd like a bench seat, but can sit on side decks. I've got two replacement knees and I can not kneel on them, so going from sitting on the floor to upright is awkward.
    I was born on a wooden boat that I built myself.

  30. #30
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    Default Re: Needed: Design suggestions for a small sailboat for an old guy

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich Jones View Post
    I've searched through WoodenBoat and can't seem to find anything that grabs me. I'd like a transomed boat so it has buoyancy in the stern to hold up my fat arse.(200lbs.)
    Here's what I'd need.
    - 16' or so
    - 5' or greater beam
    -transom sterned
    -round bottom
    -centerboard, no daggerboard
    -free standing rig or easily set up stayed rig
    -can be glued lap or strip planked.
    -I enjoy lofting, so detailed plans are not a requirement.

    Any ideas out there? Thanks.
    Paul Gartside's Skylark, with the freestanding lug. My favorite of the fleet at the WoodenBoat School. https://store.gartsideboats.com/prod...ghy-design-107
    I suspect converting her to glued lap or strip planking would be pretty easy.
    skylark.jpg


    Bolger's Harbinger catboat would be another option. Check out Ross Lilistone's.

    http://rosslillistonewoodenboat.blog...harbinger.html

    But, just how long do you want to be building instead of sailing? As you know, most of the boats suggested, including mine, could easily become multi-year projects.
    Perhaps multi chine ply would be OK?
    For one or two people, a boat like Bolger's Bobcat or Michalak's Skat or Vector should be just fine, size and stability wise. And you'd still have the cachet of sailing a gaff rigged catboat, only a whole lot sooner and easier.

    Skat:

    And even James McMullen can't bring himself to talk bad about the Bobcat he made (not this one).

    Duckworksbbs.com and InstantBoats.com have these plans.


    Good luck!
    Dave

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    Default Re: Needed: Design suggestions for a small sailboat for an old guy

    I have the plans for Michalak Skat, and the original boat that inspire it, the Edson Schock 12ft6in Catboat......for the reason of stabilty and it has small bench seats. I think i prefer a balanced or standing lug over a gaff.



    Skat, in plywood.

  32. #32
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    Default Re: Needed: Design suggestions for a small sailboat for an old guy

    DGentry,
    That's a lot of good suggestions.
    I do prefer the round bottom. There is no rush to get on the water as I have plenty of other boats to play with. I find the usually-2-years-it-takes-to-build-a-boat to be just as much fun as using them.
    I was born on a wooden boat that I built myself.

  33. #33
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    Default Re: Needed: Design suggestions for a small sailboat for an old guy

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Hoppe View Post





    I am actively hunting for plans. in my eye, it is the boat which checks most boxes you want. Strip planked she becomes a heir loom.
    A pictures is worth a thousand words but a challenging meme stumps the ignorant.

  34. #34
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    Default Re: Needed: Design suggestions for a small sailboat for an old guy

    Ebihen? It has a misainier option, yes?

    Peace,
    Robert

  35. #35
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    Default Re: Needed: Design suggestions for a small sailboat for an old guy

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Hoppe View Post
    I am actively hunting for plans. in my eye, it is the boat which checks most boxes you want. Strip planked she becomes a heir loom.
    Ted, if you track down these plans, please let me know. Do you suppose that's a weighted shoal keel under the boat or just a skeg?
    I was born on a wooden boat that I built myself.

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