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Thread: melonseed carvel planked?

  1. #36
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    Default Re: melonseed carvel planked?

    Quote Originally Posted by MN Dave View Post
    There are several different woods called cipres (cypress in English). Is this Patagonian Cypress?
    Patagonian Cypress:
    https://www.woodworkerssource.com/wo...20cupressoides
    http://globaltrees.org/threatened-tr...onian-cypress/
    Other woods called Cypress:
    https://www.woodworkerssource.com/wo...+Now+%3E%3E%3E

    https://www.woodworkerssource.com/wo...+Now+%3E%3E%3E
    In Chile patagonian cypress is called "alerce" meaning larch. I think he is talking about one of the two native woods called "cypress" in Chile, "chilean cedar" = austrocedrus chilensis, called "ciprés de la cordillera" or "pilgerodendron" = pilgerodendron uviferum, called "ciprés de la guaitecas". Probably the later since it is traditionally used in boat construction. https://www.delta-intkey.com/citeswo...w/cuppiluv.htm

    I think the simplest way for the amateur to build the boat and not have it leak would be to canvas cover it. Since the framing would add weight over the glued plywood lapstrake I would reduce the plank thickness to 8-10mm.

  2. #37
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    Default Re: melonseed carvel planked?

    For your question about how to caulk the 1/2" carvel planks do the following.

    Install each plank so the bottom edge is perfectly square (90 degrees). Bevel the adjacent plank edge so the inside of the boat is tight wood-wood contact, and the outside of the seam is open 2-3mm.

    All of the seams will be a shallow V shape. Buy raw cotton caulking, the big pile shown here. These pics show a cross-planked boat, but the process is the same.




    Build a caulking wheel using a fender washer. Loop the cotton and stick it into the seam as shown above. Roll it home. Be careful, under no case should you let cotton break through to the inside of the boat! Be quite gentle on the thin planking.



    After caulking, paint the cotton with a homemade tool like this using thinned paint.



    Then work seam compound into the seams and tool it off flat. Linseed oil window glazing putty works and is available everywhere. There are also compounds made specifically for boats by Interlux and others.


  3. #38
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    Default Re: melonseed carvel planked?

    This one is lapstreak, but it might be interesting to the OP Melonseed Skiff Build in Stockholm #1
    Management is the art of counting beans. Leadership is the art of making every being count. --Joe Finch

  4. #39
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    Default Re: melonseed carvel planked?

    Dave:
    No, Fitzroya Cupressoides is completely forbidden. I think it is Lambertiana. 490kg/ mt3 without knots and dried.

  5. #40
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    Default Re: melonseed carvel planked?

    Dave: Fitzroya cupressoides is absolutely prohibited in Chile. I think the cypres is Lambertiana , clear, without knots, at air dried.There are other cypress I can get, like Cipres de las Guaytecas, or Libocedrus.
    But it remain a question; how to caulk.
    I read something of Boatlife caulking product. Is it enough to keep dry this small boat?. Is this applied like a silicona?
    I´m buying the Barto plans in WB store, and may be the Chapelle too.

  6. #41
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    Default Re: melonseed carvel planked?

    Yes Dave ; I've read this article, very interesting. thanks to remember me this.

  7. #42
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    Default Re: melonseed carvel planked?

    Madison: Thanks for the photos. I will return with questions about "compound" and others. In Chile we have not many things for boating. Boating is not so developed like in USA. I´ve my own theory; since España lost the ocean dominium, England became the lord of transocean commerce, and pursued perfecting the boat design.
    España and his colonies in S. America, not. When reading Moby Dick, we see the seamen looking the best walerboats, his launches, if they look speedy and light, and this characteristics are definitely given by a good design. England and her colonies in America work to get good designs, while, in S. America there are not interest in great commerce, then, the boat design remain crude and basic.

  8. #43
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    Default Re: melonseed carvel planked?

    Quote Originally Posted by enrique bruna View Post
    Madison: Thanks for the photos. I will return with questions about "compound" and others. In Chile we have not many things for boating. Boating is not so developed like in USA. I´ve my own theory; since España lost the ocean dominium, England became the lord of transocean commerce, and pursued perfecting the boat design.
    España and his colonies in S. America, not. When reading Moby Dick, we see the seamen looking the best walerboats, his launches, if they look speedy and light, and this characteristics are definitely given by a good design. England and her colonies in America work to get good designs, while, in S. America there are not interest in great commerce, then, the boat design remain crude and basic.
    Argentina has produced some great sailors and some fine designers, such as German Frers. I think the situation in Chile may have more to do with the fact that the wealth is in the north, and the best sailing area is in the south.

  9. #44
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    Default Re: melonseed carvel planked?

    Quote Originally Posted by enrique bruna View Post
    Dave: Fitzroya cupressoides is absolutely prohibited in Chile. I think the cypres is Lambertiana , clear, without knots, at air dried.There are other cypress I can get, like Cipres de las Guaytecas, or Libocedrus.
    But it remain a question; how to caulk.
    I read something of Boatlife caulking product. Is it enough to keep dry this small boat?. Is this applied like a silicona?
    I´m buying the Barto plans in WB store, and may be the Chapelle too.
    I think you'll need cotton, as shown in post 37.

  10. #45
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    Default Re: melonseed carvel planked?

    May be. Another thing is to Argentina arrives many europeans that not arrive to Chile in the colonial times. Argentina has a great mix of europeans, and another maritime commerce from the beginning. The seabed in the atlantic side is extended shaped, as in N. America. This, encourages the designs of small boats. The coasts of the Pacific are abrupts.

  11. #46
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    Default Re: melonseed carvel planked?

    Steve:
    I understand the 16 ft Barto Melonseed use 1/4 ply. If it is so, can I use the same frames to build carvel 1/2" planking? What do you think about.In the seam , the 1/4" ply planks are doubled, then, the exterior line is 1/2" over the rib lines. I must correct the arriving of the rib at the deck level and make room in the bow.
    Another problem is the attaching to the keel, what solution do you see for it?
    Waiting for your advices.
    Enrique

  12. #47
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    Default Re: melonseed carvel planked?

    Enrique, while I modify plans more than I should, going from glued lap to carvel on Barto's plans goes way beyond my ability to figure out. Sorry, you're going to have to keep asking, but I think you need to work from another set of plans. Good news is that I don't think there is a bad seed out there!
    Steve B
    Sjogin IIIa
    PAYTON 13' Pea Pod

    RIVUS 16' Melonseed


    "If a man must be obsessed by something, I suppose a boat is as good as anything, perhaps a bit better than most." E. B. White

  13. #48
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    Default Re: melonseed carvel planked?

    Chapelle’s mellonseep fig. 78 in American Small Sailing Craft. Is carvel planked. I can’t quite read the planking thickness, looks like 7/16”. You can get these plans from the Smithsonian.


    34D3F2D0-2834-4C7E-AE18-A6B7C1B3E768.jpg
    "Yeah, well, that's just, like your opinion man"
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  14. #49
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    Default Re: melonseed carvel planked?

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt young View Post
    Chapelle’s mellonseep fig. 78 in American Small Sailing Craft. Is carvel planked. I can’t quite read the planking thickness, looks like 7/16”. You can get these plans from the Smithsonian.


    34D3F2D0-2834-4C7E-AE18-A6B7C1B3E768.jpg
    Not, however, the size of boat he wants.

  15. #50
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    Default Re: melonseed carvel planked?

    I've not seen the Barto plan, but once you have a set of molds you could pretty much switch to carvel; Joe Liener did his 13' melon seed the other way. We used to have a planking form for teaching at Mystic that we'd plank carvel then switch to lapstrake. I don't know how much twist Barto has in the stem of his boat; it may require a bit of steam on the plank ends. The planks especially at the turn of the bilge may require some backing out. Assuming that Barto uses a plank keel in which case there would be no keel rabbet. This was common in Maine plank keel peapods where there was just a caulked seam and frames and floor timbers held things together. 7/16" is scant for carvel as it doesn't allow much for bunging screw fastenings. I'd be inclined to look at rivets.
    Ben Fuller
    Ran Tan, Liten Kuhling, Tipsy, Tippy, Josef W., Merry Mouth, Imp, Macavity, Look Far, Flash and a quiver of other 'yaks.
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  16. #51
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    Default Re: melonseed carvel planked?

    Quote Originally Posted by johnw View Post
    Not, however, the size of boat he wants.
    THANKS johnw EDIT: As the Chapelle plan is only 13’-6?” Long, you can take its 7/16” planking as a suggestion that it is what you want for the 16’er or that bumping to 1/2” will work on the longer model. And as mentioned before possibly increasing the frame dimensions. I would try and workout the weight difference between 1/4”ply and 1/2” stock and more thicker framing. Does Barto give you a goal for the hull weight? Another question is how much do you and your weigh? If not much than adding some extra hull weight might be ok?
    Last edited by Matt young; 01-05-2019 at 08:33 AM.
    "Yeah, well, that's just, like your opinion man"
    -The Dude-

  17. #52
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    Default Re: melonseed carvel planked?

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt young View Post
    THANKS johnw EDIT: As the Chapelle plan is only 13’-6?” Long, you can take its 7/16” planking as a suggestion that it is what you want for the 16’er or that bumping to 1/2” will work on the longer model. And as mentioned before possibly increasing the frame dimensions. I would try and workout the weight difference between 1/4”ply and 1/2” stock and more thicker framing. Does Barto give you a goal for the hull weight? Another question is how much do you and your weigh? If not much than adding some extra hull weight might be ok?
    1/4 inch ply should weigh about the same as 1/2 inch cedar.

  18. #53
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    Default Re: melonseed carvel planked?

    Quote Originally Posted by johnw View Post
    1/4 inch ply should weigh about the same as 1/2 inch cedar.
    Wow you are correct, now I know.
    "Yeah, well, that's just, like your opinion man"
    -The Dude-

  19. #54
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    Default Re: melonseed carvel planked?

    Quote Originally Posted by enrique bruna View Post
    Dave: Fitzroya cupressoides is absolutely prohibited in Chile. I think the cypres is Lambertiana , clear, without knots, at air dried.There are other cypress I can get, like Cipres de las Guaytecas, or Libocedrus.
    But it remain a question; how to caulk.
    I read something of Boatlife caulking product. Is it enough to keep dry this small boat?. Is this applied like a silicona?
    I´m buying the Barto plans in WB store, and may be the Chapelle too.
    I have a general interest in wood, and I wish I could be of more help with caulking. Boatlife Life Caulk is applied like silicone. I would not use any rubber like material in place of caulking. Silicone is the worst sealant to use on wood. Silicone is only good for sealing glass or plastic windows to metal. Boatlife Life caulk is a polysulfide and it is good for deck seams. For caulking planking, there are others here who have provided better information than I can.

    I am no expert on South American trees. I find it interesting to learn about the wood available in other places around the world, and I appreciate that you corrected me and provided more information. I can find two species of lambertiana; Cupressus Lambertiana (Monterrey cypress) and Pinus lambertiana (sugar pine). Monterrey cypress has been grown all over the world, so that may be the same tree that you have. The Woodworkers Source site that I linked to before has Monterrey cypress wrong. The Wood Database has it correct, but doesn't have all of the other names, so it is hard to figure out what is available in Chile and what to call it.
    Last edited by MN Dave; 01-07-2019 at 12:14 PM. Reason: Kitten jumped on keyboard -- again.
    Management is the art of counting beans. Leadership is the art of making every being count. --Joe Finch

  20. #55
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    Default Re: melonseed carvel planked?

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt young View Post
    Wow you are correct, now I know.
    I've raced a couple cedar Snipes, you can build the class in 3/4 inch cedar or 3/8 inch plywood. But then, there are different weights of cedar and different weight of plywood.

  21. #56
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    Default Re: melonseed carvel planked?

    Thanks Mat: beatifull plans!!!

  22. #57
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    Default Re: melonseed carvel planked?

    As the plans don´t arrive ...... I have another question. Somebody know the length for the oars for the 16 Barto? May I begin with them, the mast, etc
    Is it posible to build a composed mast or a hollow mast for the 16 ft m seed?, Is enough the thick of the mast?
    Dave, you are rigth, it is Lambertiana. We have many in the south. D Fir too, but it grow coarse, not very dense.
    It has been an enriching conversation, Thanks to each one of you.
    (Excuse my english please)

  23. #58
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    Default Re: melonseed carvel planked?

    Quote Originally Posted by enrique bruna View Post
    As the plans don´t arrive ...... I have another question. Somebody know the length for the oars for the 16 Barto? May I begin with them, the mast, etc
    Is it posible to build a composed mast or a hollow mast for the 16 ft m seed?, Is enough the thick of the mast?
    Dave, you are rigth, it is Lambertiana. We have many in the south. D Fir too, but it grow coarse, not very dense.
    It has been an enriching conversation, Thanks to each one of you.
    (Excuse my english please)
    Be sure and keep us updated on your project, by starting a build thread when you begin. And don't worry about your English, you communicate very well.

  24. #59
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    Default Re: melonseed carvel planked?

    Quote Originally Posted by enrique bruna View Post
    (Excuse my english please)
    Por favor disculpe mi español. Your English is much better than my Spanish. I need to use a computer to translate.

    Este sitio de traducción parece funcionar mejor que Google Translate.
    http://www.spanishdict.com/translate...le%20Translate.

    You can certainly build a composite mast. We like to talk about hollow bird's mouth masts more than composite. As for wall thickness, I don't know, but someone here will. The Melonseed should row easily, so I would use longer oars, 7 to 8 feet. It depends on the space available to stow the oars too. Even when longer oars are better for rowing, you have to have room for them.

    Using the link:
    Ciertamente se puede construir un mástil compuesto. Nos gusta hablar de mástiles de boca de pájaro hueco más que compuestos. En cuanto al grosor de la pared, no lo sé, pero alguien aquí lo hará. El Melonseed debe remar fácilmente, así que utilizaría remos más largos, 7 a 8 pies. Depende del espacio disponible para guardar los remos también. Incluso cuando los remos más largos son mejores para remar, tienes que tener espacio para ellos.
    Last edited by MN Dave; 01-16-2019 at 11:46 AM.
    Management is the art of counting beans. Leadership is the art of making every being count. --Joe Finch

  25. #60
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    Default Re: melonseed carvel planked?

    Quote Originally Posted by enrique bruna View Post
    As the plans don´t arrive ...... I have another question. Somebody know the length for the oars for the 16 Barto? May I begin with them, the mast, etc
    Is it posible to build a composed mast or a hollow mast for the 16 ft m seed?, Is enough the thick of the mast?
    Dave, you are rigth, it is Lambertiana. We have many in the south. D Fir too, but it grow coarse, not very dense.
    It has been an enriching conversation, Thanks to each one of you.
    (Excuse my english please)
    For oars I made mine 9'9", but 6" shorter , would have been better.

    As for the mast I made mine birdsmouth but upped the scantlings (N=8, OD=3.75, ID=2.5 H=.72 L=1.46) since I used a bigger rig, 120sf, vs Barto's 90 sf. l had concern that the 90sf rig was underpowered, and after discussion with Barto I used the larger sail plan designed by John Brady. Which is also unstayed. 5 years later, I'm still very happy with it, but if you go that way, don't forget reef points.
    Steve B
    Sjogin IIIa
    PAYTON 13' Pea Pod

    RIVUS 16' Melonseed


    "If a man must be obsessed by something, I suppose a boat is as good as anything, perhaps a bit better than most." E. B. White

  26. #61
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    Default Re: melonseed carvel planked?

    Dear friends:
    Finaly, I decided to build lapstrake in ply. The plans arrived and I spend two days studying them and reading the few instruction attached.
    I will begin with my questions again. The plans show the bottom laid over the chines, the bottom is 1/2" and the planks are 1/4". Then, how the garboard, that is the first plank,attached with the bottom plank? The instructions said "bevel bottom to angle of garboard". How must I understand this?
    Enrique

  27. #62
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    Default Re: melonseed carvel planked?

    [QUOTE=enrique bruna;5785901]Dear friends:
    Finaly, I decided to build lapstrake in ply. The plans arrived and I spend two days studying them and reading the few instruction attached.
    I will begin with my questions again. The plans show the bottom laid over the chines, the bottom is 1/2" and the planks are 1/4". Then, how the garboard, that is the first plank,attached with the bottom plank? The instructions said "bevel bottom to angle of garboard". How must I understand this?
    Enrique[/QUOTE

    It sure is easier to go with the designer's plans. (something I should try) As for beveling the garboard, here is a photo I just borrowed from the internet showing the bevel. Then glue the next plank to it and plane flush with the bottom. That bevel will change, or roll, from mold to mold. You'll soon get the hang of it. John Brooks book, How to build a Glued Lapstrake Boat was my bible.
    Steve B
    Sjogin IIIa
    PAYTON 13' Pea Pod

    RIVUS 16' Melonseed


    "If a man must be obsessed by something, I suppose a boat is as good as anything, perhaps a bit better than most." E. B. White

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