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Thread: An Ilur in Finland

  1. #36
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Finland

    Great thread, following with interest!

    Ken

  2. #37
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Finland

    Thaks for following everybody! I'm sure I will need lots of your good advice as I proceed. While I'm waiting for glue to set I shall entertain you with a photo of a traditional Finnish boat that obviously doesn't have any problems with snapping garboards. This one is from 1935, a traditional boat type called "haapio". It is sculpted out of a single log of aspen, slowly opened with the help of open fire, then equipped with sheerstrakes of pine and frames of ... perhaps spruce roots or juniper, not sure. From the collection of the Finnish National Museum.

    IMG_2992 by Otto Karvonen, on Flickr

  3. #38
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Finland

    So, after watching Louis Sauzedde's inspiring videos of steaming with plastic bags, I built my own system based on a steam cleaner and bubble wrap. I gave the garboard ends 20 minutes of steam after which they bent very easily into desired shape.

    IMG_3038 by Otto Karvonen, on Flickbr />
    After letting the plank dry for a day I found some cracks on the steamed part. I guess (hope) they don't really matter. Even though I'm planning to finish the whole interior with Deks Olje I might encapsulate the first 3 planks with epoxy all over. I guess that would eliminate eany problems with the cracks. A lot of guessing...

    IMG_3039 by Otto Karvonen, on Flickr

  4. #39
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Finland

    I ended up steaming also the ends of the first strakes, although don't know if was necessary.

    ilurbuild-4 by Otto Karvonen, on Flickbr />
    Here I have started planing the garboards to receive the skeg and false keel.

    ilurbuild-3 by Otto Karvonen, on Flickbr />
    First two skeg laminations...

    ilurbuild-6 by Otto Karvonen, on Flickr

  5. #40
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Finland

    Got the 2nd strakes on. I forgot to wax the threads of one of the temporary screws, so it snapped when I was taking it off. Now I have a piece of a drywall screw buried in the plank/transom. Should I just cover it with epoxy and forget about it or is it likely to give me trouble later? I could also try a surgical operation to remove it.

    ilurbuild-7 by Otto Karvonen, on Flickr

  6. #41
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Finland

    I’d take it out.
    https://www.highlandwoodworking.com/...xtractors.aspx

    Just a suggestion, use a manual screwdriver to start removing your screws. If it takes too much force to break it out keep the head of the screwdriver inserted in the screw and heat the shank of the screwdriver with a torch while applying moderate torque to the screw. When the screw gets warm enough the epoxy will release it.
    Steamboat

    I get by with the judicious use of serendipity.

  7. #42
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Finland

    Quote Originally Posted by Steamboat View Post
    I’d take it out.
    https://www.highlandwoodworking.com/...xtractors.aspx

    Just a suggestion, use a manual screwdriver to start removing your screws. If it takes too much force to break it out keep the head of the screwdriver inserted in the screw and heat the shank of the screwdriver with a torch while applying moderate torque to the screw. When the screw gets warm enough the epoxy will release it.
    Thanks for the tip, Steamboat. That kind of extractor would be nice to have, but since they cannot be found in local stores here I will have to manage with a saw and chisel. Learning from my mistake, I now always loosen and tighten again (by hand) the temporary screws when the epoxy is set but not really hard yet. Seems to work.

  8. #43
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Finland

    Otto, I think Steamboat means a hand-held, traditional screwdriver.
    Proud but humble member of the LPBC

  9. #44
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Finland

    Yes, I got that part and it's a good idea. I will try not to ever need one of those fancy hollow drill bits Steamboat linked in his post.

  10. #45
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Finland

    I used a soldering iron to directly heat the screw. 20 seconds or so with the tip of the iron held to the head of the screw, and they backed out real smooth. That way I didn't have to wax and I could fill in the hole with epoxy without worrying about any wax possibly causing issues with the epoxy.

  11. #46
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Finland

    A plug cutter worked for me once...

    2010 MAY 16 CLEAT(2) 003.jpg

  12. #47
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Finland

    Quote Originally Posted by cracked lid View Post
    I used a soldering iron to directly heat the screw. 20 seconds or so with the tip of the iron held to the head of the screw, and they backed out real smooth. That way I didn't have to wax and I could fill in the hole with epoxy without worrying about any wax possibly causing issues with the epoxy.
    Beats messing with a torch.
    Last edited by Steamboat; 02-21-2019 at 06:24 AM.
    Steamboat

    I get by with the judicious use of serendipity.

  13. #48
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Finland

    I managed to dig out the broken screws by chiselling out some wood around them. I will no longer bother to use wax on the threads but instead keep my soldering iron at hand in case a screw get stuck. Thanks for the tip Cracked lid!

    Got the skeg laminated, shaped and glued in place. It is truely wonderful to see a boat slowly taking shape!

    ilurbuild-9 by Otto Karvonen, on Flickr

  14. #49
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Finland

    Your skeg laminations and taper are so tidy! Mine was a big mess.

    I do the loosen and re-tighten thing on my temp. screws. It works for me. I did use permanent bronze ones at stem and transom.

    You are really moving along! Thanks for posting.

    Mike

  15. #50
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Finland

    Got the fifth planks and bilge keels on. Only five pairs to go! The bilge keels will receive brass bands like the false keel.

    ilurbuild-15 by Otto Karvonen, on Flickr

  16. #51
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Finland

    Looks great--I look forward to seeing more of your build as you continue. Ilur is a great design.

    Tom
    You don't have to be prepared as long as you're willing to suffer the consequences.

    www.tompamperin.com

  17. #52
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Finland

    Good progress Otto.
    The vendia really looks great!

    Are there any other downsides you’ve encountered appart from the steaming/Bending issue?

  18. #53
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Finland

    Thanks everyone for following!

    I have been enjoying working with Vendia a lot and it really does look nice. I think this boat would look beautiful with a varnished hull but I'm determined to go for a painted hull instead. The interior will be simply oiled. I will do some impregnation tests with Deks Olje and linseed oil soon, to find out which system works best. At the moment my strongest candidate for paint system is the traditional linseed oil paint (like Allback).

    I haven't encountered any other downsides with Vendia apart from the need to steam the garboards. But then again, I don't have any experience of working with okoume plywood, so I can't make any comparisons. Vendia has probably more longitudinal stiffness and lateral flexibility because of the directions of plies (more lenghtwise than crosswise). This is especially easy to notice with a wider plank, like 400mm. The two longitudinal plies (together 2,5mm) on the surface have allowed for some fine tuning (at plank lands for example) before exposing cross grain, Which is nice for a beginner like me.

  19. #54
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Finland

    While waiting for glue to dry I cut the centerboard out of 425mm wide Vendia. It was not wide enough so I had to add small pieces on top.

    ilurbuild-17 by Otto Karvonen, on Flickbr />
    This boat is supposed to take me where bigger boats can't and these places tend to be full of rocks. So I routed a pocket for epoxy in the leading edge and bottom of the board to make it better survive the unavoidable ground contact.

    ilurbuild-16 by Otto Karvonen, on Flickr

  20. #55
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Finland

    Hello,

    nice built!!!

    regarding the stem, what is the purpose of the added part? is it the connection of the lanyard, or anything?

    Bye

  21. #56
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Finland

    Great job. I took forward to following you with your build. I completed my Ilur (an Ilur in California) about 6 months ago.

  22. #57
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Finland

    Quote Originally Posted by L'Ankou View Post
    Hello,

    nice built!!!

    regarding the stem, what is the purpose of the added part? is it the connection of the lanyard, or anything?

    Bye
    Thanks!
    If you mean the small nib in the top right corner of the centerboard then yes, it is for the raising/lowering system, which can be a rope tackle or a simple shock cord arragement.

    Näyttökuva 2019-03-08 kello 11.47.57 by Otto Karvonen, on Flickr

  23. #58
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Finland

    Thanks Otto for all the beautiful photographs and posts. I like your clamps. Iím just out setting a shop to build in an Ilur clicker kit. Who is the manufacturer? thanks!

  24. #59
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Finland

    Quote Originally Posted by JoeC View Post
    Great job. I took forward to following you with your build. I completed my Ilur (an Ilur in California) about 6 months ago.
    Thaks Joe!
    Your Ilur is a real beauty! I have carefully examined also your building thread, like all the other Ilur threads on this forum. It's like taking an online boat building course!

  25. #60
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Finland

    Quote Originally Posted by Paradis View Post
    Thanks Otto for all the beautiful photographs and posts. I like your clamps. I’m just out setting a shop to build in an Ilur clicker kit. Who is the manufacturer? thanks!
    Those red-handled steel clamps are made by Bessey from Germany. They are really good.

  26. #61
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Finland

    Quote Originally Posted by Otto Karvonen View Post
    Thanks!
    If you mean the small nib in the top right corner of the centerboard then yes, it is for the raising/lowering system, which can be a rope tackle or a simple shock cord arragement.

    Näyttökuva 2019-03-08 kello 11.47.57 by Otto Karvonen, on Flickr

    Hello,

    OK, noted. Did you just glue that with a butt joint, or did you scarf it? I would be afraid of some tear out if bumping a rock... ??

  27. #62
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Finland

    The additional piece on the layer beneath is twice as big, which makes it essentially a lap joint. The board will also be sheathed with fiberglass, so I think it should be fine.

  28. #63
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Finland

    Looking like excellent work! Thank you.

  29. #64
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Finland

    Made some good progress with planking during the last two weeks. I think I started to get the idea with the last planks. The next boat will be some much easier to build... But finally, I got the whiskey plank on!

    ilurbuild-18 by Otto Karvonen, on Flickbr />
    ilurbuild-20 by Otto Karvonen, on Flickr

  30. #65
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Finland

    False-stem shaped and glued in place. Next up is the false keel, some sanding, filling and sanding again. Then I should be ready to flip the thing over!

    ilurbuild-21 by Otto Karvonen, on Flickr

  31. #66
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Finland

    Looks very good.
    That Vendia looks so nice. I wish it was available here.

  32. #67
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Finland

    Otto, How do you plan to rig the sail? I stayed with the standing lug (misainer) and am very happy not to have a boom to sweep my hat off (or worse) when coming about. I was out sailing recently and noted an ugly wrinkle in the sail....the pick point to the halyard was in need of adjusting. After a few times dropping the sail and adjusting it it presented itself beautifully. Still learning to sail this boat with its nuances. I noticed when running before the wind the center board wants to rise up, which is ok but easy to forget when you change course. I did not put weight in the board, and the bungee cord, stout as it is, could use a little help with a keeper on the centerboard case.

  33. #68
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Finland

    Quote Originally Posted by JoeC View Post
    Otto, How do you plan to rig the sail? I stayed with the standing lug (misainer) and am very happy not to have a boom to sweep my hat off (or worse) when coming about. I was out sailing recently and noted an ugly wrinkle in the sail....the pick point to the halyard was in need of adjusting. After a few times dropping the sail and adjusting it it presented itself beautifully. Still learning to sail this boat with its nuances. I noticed when running before the wind the center board wants to rise up, which is ok but easy to forget when you change course. I did not put weight in the board, and the bungee cord, stout as it is, could use a little help with a keeper on the centerboard case.
    I haven't really decided on the rig yet. I am quite fascinated by the simplicity of the standing lug but I'm also considering the balanced lug. I'm going to sail the boat in the Finnish lake districts and sea arhipelago, meaning vast areas with hundreds of thousands of small islands and lots of narrow passages. That usually means a lot of tacking and gybing. Mr. Vivier recommends the balanced lug as an "interesting option for river or single-handed sailing". I have never tried either of them so it's kind of difficult to decide...

  34. #69
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Finland

    Quote Originally Posted by Otto Karvonen View Post
    I haven't really decided on the rig yet. I am quite fascinated by the simplicity of the standing lug but I'm also considering the balanced lug. I'm going to sail the boat in the Finnish lake districts and sea arhipelago, meaning vast areas with hundreds of thousands of small islands and lots of narrow passages. That usually means a lot of tacking and gybing. Mr. Vivier recommends the balanced lug as an "interesting option for river or single-handed sailing". I have never tried either of them so it's kind of difficult to decide...
    I have sailed a boat with a balance lug (Ross Lillistone's Phoenix III):

    DSCN3298.jpg

    And now I am sailing a boat with a boomless standing lug, basically using the same sheeting as a misainer (Don Kurylko's Alaska design):

    email photo.jpg

    Having used both, I'm a big fan of the boomless standing lug. For my purposes, I have not missed the boom at all. That said, the balance lug is also a great rig. Both are easy to use, easy to strike, easy to reef. The boomless rig brings a bit more simplicity, which I prefer. I have not found short-tacking difficult at all, despite needing to hook the sheet on the leeward rail at each tack. That is easy to get used to, and works very well.

    In short, tacking is SLIGHTLY more convenient with the balance lug vs. the misainer (slightly!). The boom does allow you to spread the sail much wider for downwind work. But the absence of a boom brings its own advantages (reefing is simpler, no head clearance to worry about, one less spar to build and stow, etc.).

    Edit to add: The coast of Finland sounds (and looks) much like my usual cruising grounds on the Canadian Great Lakes. Tens of thousands of islands? Check. Narrow passages? Check. I've been perfectly happy with both the balance lug and the boomless standing lug, with a slight preference for the boomless rig.

    Tom
    Last edited by WI-Tom; 03-24-2019 at 08:04 PM.
    You don't have to be prepared as long as you're willing to suffer the consequences.

    www.tompamperin.com

  35. #70
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Finland

    Tom, thanks for sharing your first hand experiences of the two different rigs. Sounds like the possible benefits of a boom in the balanced lug can hardly surpass the simplicity offered by the boomless standing lug (misainier). And according to what I have read on this forum and elsewhere there shouldn't be any significant difference in performance either.

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