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Thread: An Ilur in Finland

  1. #1
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    Default An Ilur in Finland

    One day, after a few years of co-owning and repairing a wooden yacht, I got this idea that I also need a small boat that can take me to places where the yacht cannot. After lots of time (well) spent online looking for plans for a perfect boat I could build, I ended up in Ilur. These were my requirements:

    1.
    It has to beautiful and seaworthy and sail well. The ruggedness and simplicity of open workboats have always fascinated me.

    2.
    It should fit in my tiny studio (well I need to make a hole in the wall to get it out in the future).

    3.
    I definitely wanted to build it with domestic wood instead of imported marine plywood. I had decided already beforehand that my boat would be planked with Vendia marine plank, a plywood made up of sliced veneers of Finnish pine. I was also encouraged by Adrian Morgan who has built many fantastic boats of Vendia and praises its qualities.

    There are many extremely informative blogs and threads of various Ilur builds, like Ilur in Ireland by Tim Cooke, Ilur in Vermont by John Hartmann, Ilur in PA, Ilur in R.I. , just to mention a few. They have been an invaluable source of information and inspiration, thanks a lot guys!

    The building process has been so well covered by others already, so I thought I might not go into every little detail. But since building with Vendia is slightly different from building with marine plywood, I will at least try to cover some details on the way.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Finland

    Got the plank drawings in PDF from Mr. Vivier. Vendia planks come in 2600mm and 3000mm lenghts and various widths. Tried to figure out what I needed...
    Didn't manage to link the photo from Flickr, just got the message "Invalid file"... EDIT: found out the solution!

    Print by Otto Karvonen, on Flickr
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by Otto Karvonen; 12-14-2018 at 06:00 AM.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Finland

    Laying the full size patterns on the Vendia planks to get the angles of scarf joints.
    IMG_2867 (1) by Otto Karvonen, on Flickr
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by Otto Karvonen; 12-14-2018 at 06:02 AM.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Finland

    Marking the agle of the scarf joint. Using a shop made bevel gauge to check the correct angle when gluing the scarf.

    IMG_2871 (1) by Otto Karvonen, on Flickr

  5. #5
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Finland

    A view of the ends of two planks ready for scarfing.

    IMG_2877 by Otto Karvonen, on Flickr

  6. #6
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Finland

    The first scarfs almost planed. I used only hand planes as I can't make too much dust in my studio. It was a real pleasure to plane this material. Imparts a lovely smell of pine resin. There is a small filled void visible in the photo but this was the only one I encountered. Otherwise the material seems absolutely perfect.

    IMG_2873 by Otto Karvonen, on Flickbr />
    I glued the first two joints with epoxy but then moved on to Collano Semparoc polyurethane glue. I think my joints were tight enough and I could achieve high clamping force. I'm also planning to finish the inside with Deks Olje or traditional boat soup and therefore prefer the more invisible glue line of polyurethane.

    IMG_2928 by Otto Karvonen, on Flickr

  7. #7
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Finland

    Tracing the plank shapes to the glued planks with carbon paper.

    IMG_2940 by Otto Karvonen, on Flickbr />
    A shop made tracing wheel made of some scrap wood and a washer with the edge filed sharpish.

    IMG_2939 by Otto Karvonen, on Flickr

  8. #8
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Finland

    The plywood seems great. The narrow planks must be more pleasant to handle then 4' by 8' sheets. And I always thought it would be better to have the grain of the veneers mostly lenghtwise in planking. Interesting for my next boat. And I like the way you work with handtools to minimize dust.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Finland

    I'm assuming this will be an Ilur with the internal ribs, so it'll be alright but why do Vendia make marine 7ply with only two cross grained plies? What's their reason?
    Last edited by Edward Pearson; 12-14-2018 at 02:22 PM.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Finland

    This is one of my favorite small boats. And what lovely ply!

    Thanks for sharing.

    Peace,
    Robert

  11. #11
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Finland

    Thanks....looking forward to more progress.

  12. #12
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Finland

    This is the "classic" Ilur and it will receive steam bent oak frames. I guess the cross grains in Vendia plank are there to eliminate warping and cracking a add dimensional stability, like in any plywood. I'm not really an expert in this field, so it would be better to ask Vendia guys about it. Would of course be nice not to have any end grain in the plank edges but that would probably affect some other qualities.

  13. #13
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Finland

    Great choice - I love the Ilur. I sailed with two of them last summer and they are as fast as they are beautiful.
    Almost everything about boats involves so much more time and money than one anticipates that rational and accurate planning will deter even starting. Ian McColgin

  14. #14
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Finland

    Quote Originally Posted by Edward Pearson View Post
    I'm assuming this will be an Ilur with the internal ribs, so it'll be alright but why do Vendia make marine 7ply with only two cross grained plies? What's their reason?
    I've recently come across the Review of Vendia in WoodenBoat again, #246 for the curious. Their marketing pitch from the get go is to position this as "not plywood". Which I think is smart.

    First of, the construction is dissimmilar enough to make me at least inclined to go along. The veneers are sliced instead of rotary cut, and a lot thicker. So the torsional stiffness they loose by orienting more of the fibers lenghtwise, they gain back because the stuff acts more like a solid board in the first place. Being sliced it's also not as versatile as plywood. You can't slap a sheet on a CNC Router and get all your bulkheads, frames and longitudinal members out because it comes in boards not in sheets.

    By now there are a few other products beyond the planking material that they started with, incidentally all made up of only lengthwise veneers: Big chunks for keel timbers, boards for aprons, blanks for steam bent frames.
    So the pitch, oversimplified, is: plywood is one size fits all. This is a range of engineered products for specific applications.

  15. #15
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Finland

    Quote Originally Posted by Otto Karvonen View Post
    This is the "classic" Ilur and it will receive steam bent oak frames.
    No Vendia frames for you? It seems like the perfect compromise to me. All the advantages of laminated frames without all the setup, mess and cleanup. Or do you have a source for good framing stock nearby?

  16. #16
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Finland

    Vendia are obviously very good at slicing trees. I wonder if those individual separate 1.5-2mm Finnish pine veneers could be made available for cold molding?
    Last edited by Edward Pearson; 12-14-2018 at 06:07 PM.

  17. #17
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Finland

    wonderful! great start and im super stoked to follow along! ive been curious about vendia for some time, and look forward to some second hand learning.

    kiitos!

  18. #18
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Finland

    Great! I'll be following along with interest. For the Ilur "Classique" as you noted, Tim Cooke's blog is invaluable. I did as he did and added flotation tanks.

    Good luck, and keep us posted.

    Mike
    "near it, a small whale-boat, painted red and blue, the delight of the king's old age."

  19. #19
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Finland

    Quote Originally Posted by Edward Pearson View Post
    I wonder if those individual separate 1.5-2mm Finnish pine veneers could be made available for cold molding?
    They are. vendia.fi/products under Veneers.
    Thicknesses:

    0.6 mm, 1.2 mm, 1.5 mm and 3.0 mm
    Widths: 50-200 mm
    Lengths: 1500-3000 mm

  20. #20
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Finland

    Vendia does offer a variety of different products, including frames. And Adrian Morgan has succesfully laminated frames of their regular 6mm planks. I do have quite a good looking log of oak waiting to be sawn into frames. I even know exactly where it used to grow, which is nice. But if it doesn't work in the end I might go for the Vendia frames. Steam bending just sounds like a fun thing to experiment with.

    I got some of their widest planks which are 425mm. That is enough for all the bulkheads, centerboard case, rudder and centerboard etc. The face veneers are quarter cut/spliced. They were happy to arrange the veneers randomly when I asked for the possibility (I dont like repeating patterns in veneers). I guess they could do a lot of customising if you just ask.

  21. #21
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Finland

    Quote Originally Posted by MoritzSchwarzer View Post
    They are. vendia.fi/products under Veneers.
    Thicknesses:

    0.6 mm, 1.2 mm, 1.5 mm and 3.0 mm
    Widths: 50-200 mm
    Lengths: 1500-3000 mm
    That really opens up cold molding having had all the donkey work done! I'll have to enquire about the price of packs of those...

  22. #22
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Finland

    Quote Originally Posted by Edward Pearson View Post
    I'm assuming this will be an Ilur with the internal ribs, so it'll be alright but why do Vendia make marine 7ply with only two cross grained plies? What's their reason?
    The veneers are not 90 degrees and 0 degrees to the edge as plywood. The faces are 0 degrees and maybe one or two veneers inside as well, the rest is 45 degrees. That is another reason to justify the "no plywood" statement.

    Dreaming a schooner since 1988:

  23. #23
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Finland

    Quote Originally Posted by skaraborgcraft View Post
    ^ Nice to see they use an appropriate bond for the job.
    Only waterproof glue is used in ANY plywood produced in Finland. The glue has been a no-issue here for decades, half a century I would say.

    Dreaming a schooner since 1988:

  24. #24
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Finland

    Otto, where in Finland are you building? I would be curious to see your build.

    Dreaming a schooner since 1988:

  25. #25
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Finland

    The plank I'm using has 2 veneers lenghtwise, 1 crosswise, 1 lenghtwise, 1 crosswise, 2 lenghtwise. All in 0 or 90 degrees.
    Timo, I'm building the boat in Helsinki. You are welcome to pop by, as soon as it starts taking shape. First I have to finish all the planks, keel etc to free the space for the buildig jig.

  26. #26
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Finland

    Please continue Otto,
    very much interested in Vendia, and there can’t be enough ilur threads.

  27. #27
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Finland

    Making progress, slowly but steadily. The strakes are now all cut to exact shape (leaving some extra in the ends).

    IMG_2984 by Otto Karvonen, on Flickbr />
    Got the building jig erected. It's taking up most of the space in my tiny studio...

    IMG_3002 by Otto Karvonen, on Flickbr />
    Transom, transom knee and stem almost there...

    IMG_3003 by Otto Karvonen, on Flickr

  28. #28
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Finland

    Good progress Otto,
    You’re shop looks clean and well organised.
    Just as you’re work.

  29. #29
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Finland

    Thanks Maarten! I need to organise and tidy up all the otherwise it will become a horrible mess in an instant.

    I tried to bend the false stem laminations in place but the curve seemed too tight for the 3mm pine veneers. So I made an instant mini steamer of a plastic pipe and steam cleaner, gave them an 8 minute steam bath which helped a lot.

    IMG_3007 by Otto Karvonen, on Flickbr />

    Why not use all your clamps when ever you can?

    IMG_3009 by Otto Karvonen, on Flickr

  30. #30
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Finland

    Quote Originally Posted by Otto Karvonen View Post
    A view of the ends of two planks ready for scarfing.

    IMG_2877 by Otto Karvonen, on Flickr
    Really beautiful work so far. Thanks for posting your pictures, I am enjoying following your progress.

    Jason

  31. #31
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    Default Re: An Ilur in Finland

    Quote Originally Posted by maarten View Post
    Good progress Otto,
    You’re shop looks clean and well organised.
    Just as you’re work.
    +1. Wholeheartedly agree!

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