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Thread: Making an Argie 15 in Brazil - Need help with building options

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
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    Default Making an Argie 15 in Brazil - Need help with building options

    Good morning, I am starting this thread to ask for support and discuss some decisions about building options for the Argie 15 (Dudley Dix's design) which I am building here in Brazil. Since I am no experienced sailor nor builder it would be very nice to listen to ones with more mileage.

    The building log can be found at gbellodi.tumblr.com. Case you want to be warned by mail or whatsapp about blog updates, send me a personal message with your contact.

    The first decision to make regards the daggerboard: The plans I bought provide drawings for both a sliding daggerboard or a pivoting centerboard. Both have identical shape when fully extended. The pivoting option seem more interesting considering:

    - Easier to operate when sailing solo.
    - Safer in shallow waters.

    In the other hand, I have these concerns:
    - The housing and the bottom sheet opening would be longer and invade the mid seat affecting hull overall strength.
    - For the same reason, mobility from one boat side to the other would be reduced.
    - The hinge pin would be close to the bottom, sometimes below waterline, I presume. Potential water ingress point to be addressed.

    This is an approximation of the housing extension from both options (few details since I am drawing over an official website image in order to protect design property rights).
    Daggerboard options.png

    Brazilian sailors that I have talked to seem to also prefer the pivoting option.

    Any point I am missing?

    By the way, I will be adding full length side seats between the stern seat and mid seat (drawings show basic option which is a "C" shape seat at stern plus mid seat).
    Last edited by gbellodi; 12-07-2018 at 06:31 PM. Reason: Spelling
    Help me build the Argie 15: check out the thread Making an Argie 15 in Brazil - Need help with building options

    Take a look at my boat: Building an Argie 15 in Brazil - PM me to receive update notices.


  2. #2
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    Default Re: Making an Argie 15 in Brazil - Need help with building options

    The slot for a pivoting centerboard doesn't really have any effect on hull strength in real world usage - there are usually logs at the bottom of the case, and supporting knees or frames/ bulkheads either side, that more than make up for the slot.
    What it will do is add a bit of drag - if you intend racing, then the daggerboard version will be marginally faster, and slightly cheaper/quicker to build. If you are going to be doing a lot of shallow water sailing, a center board makes a good depth sounder, folds up out of harms way, and might be a better option.

    There are many ways of getting a watertight, but serviceable, pivot. The simplest is to have a stainless or bronze (NOT brass) pin about 20mm diameter, that goes all the way through the case from one side to the other, with a gasketed cover (a plywood disc about 70mm in diameter, with three screws) screwed over the pivot pin holes.
    Remove both covers, and just push the pin out, if the board ever needs work. On the boat I built, the area around the pivot had a second layer of plywood glued to the outside of the case, to strengthen the pivot area - this gave enough thickness to screw into. The gaskets were made from a rubber foam mouse pad, and never leaked a drop.
    If you have access to a metal lathe, you can get much more creative, fiddly and expensive, but no more water tight!

    Just a note on seat across the back - they will be all but useless as seats, as anybody sitting there will be right in the way of the tiller. However, it may add a lot of structural strength, and/or contribute to the buoyancy in a capsize situation, depending on how they are designed and built.
    Do not mess with the design of any built in buoyancy, as you can make it more difficult to recover from a capsize, and more is not always better.

    Pete
    Last edited by epoxyboy; 12-08-2018 at 03:03 AM.
    Don't underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers!

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Making an Argie 15 in Brazil - Need help with building options

    I buildt Argie with daggerboard, as the original design. The centerboard option was drawed later. I really like the open floor in the cocpit as the daggerboard casing takes up less space than a centerboard. Another reason I buildt daggerboard is that it was easyer/faster to build.

    But I do not sail much in shallow water where a centerboard would be an andvantage of course. My opinion is that if you dont sail in shallow water, the centerboard is not worth taking the extra space and extra work building it...

    Good luck!

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Making an Argie 15 in Brazil - Need help with building options

    All good advice so far. I'm a huge fan of kickup rudders and centerboards, as I like to sail shallow waters and beach boats when under sail. You also never know when you may encounter underwater obstacles like rocks, sunken logs, etc -- don't ask me how I know this! ;-)

    The biggest issue that you've mentioned seems to be the impact of the centerboard case on the forward thwart. I'll look for photos or plans, but does it fit under the thwart or does it sit above the thwart level and thus make seating unusable? Can you post photos of the plans for the centerboard?

    The few photos I can find look rather strange, almost as if the centerboard isn't fully in the case or ?? Having a centerboard case taller than the thwarts isn't a real problem, although it can make moving around the boat a little more awkward.



    Here's a long thread by capefox on building his Argie 15 - http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...uction-journal
    Last edited by Thorne; 12-10-2018 at 11:40 AM.
    "The enemies of reason have a certain blind look."
    Doctor Jacquin to Lieutenant D'Hubert, in Ridley Scott's first major film _The Duellists_.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Making an Argie 15 in Brazil - Need help with building options

    Mine has a dagger board in a pivoting centreboard slot. I was experimenting and giving myself both options. The advantage here is that the dagger board will kick back and up if I ground so I see I've hit bottom and can react. I just secure it down with a bungee chord. I can also lay my bed boards across the centre board casing which gives them strength to take my recumbent weight. I am sometime jealous of the space the dagger board option gives in the cockpit though. Tacking can be an bit of a dance.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Making an Argie 15 in Brazil - Need help with building options

    The daggerboard was was simple to build, and after several years of use the daggerboard has proven adequate and durable. However, I've often found myself wishing I'd built a pivoting centerboard instead, because it is more convenient to use and one less component to lose or forget at home. I've also pondered whether a galvanized steel centerboard of around 100 lb would provides more stability while sacrificing just some of the loading capacity. Some reinforcing of the hull and centerboard case would be needed and I wouldn't consider it without emailing the designer, Dudley Dix, first.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Making an Argie 15 in Brazil - Need help with building options

    epoxiboy, I like your idea for the pin, thanks. I heard that some 420 and 470 have similar solutions.

    Fredostli, the boat will sail mainly the Tietê river. Water is deep enough but I intend to beech it and as a newbie I am sure to forget to retract the daggerboard soon or later...

    Thorne, Kikky made the centerboard with some engineering for the pivot pin. In this picture from his log you can see the slotted midseat:


    capefox, I think about using some high density Brazilian wood for the daggerboard (ipê which is around 1000kg/m3) but I am still not very convinced about its ability to absorb epoxi well.

    I am getting more convinced to take the pivoting option every day. The ergonomic issues would be reduced since I intend to place the boom 200mm up... But this is a talk for an other post that I intend to write soon.
    Help me build the Argie 15: check out the thread Making an Argie 15 in Brazil - Need help with building options

    Take a look at my boat: Building an Argie 15 in Brazil - PM me to receive update notices.


  8. #8
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    Default Re: Making an Argie 15 in Brazil - Need help with building options

    Quote Originally Posted by gbellodi View Post
    I am sure to forget to retract the daggerboard soon or later...
    I am a newbie too, and a nervous one, so I expect to forget the daggerboard when I am more experienced and more confident

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Making an Argie 15 in Brazil - Need help with building options

    Don't forget to check out the Argie builders facebook group as well.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Making an Argie 15 in Brazil - Need help with building options

    Quote Originally Posted by Nikky View Post
    Don't forget to check out the Argie builders facebook group as well.
    Yepp, and you will find more options on rigs etc ;-) https://www.facebook.com/groups/1961623317453084/

  11. #11
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    Dec 2018
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    Default Re: Making an Argie 15 in Brazil - Need help with building options

    Quote Originally Posted by Nikky View Post
    Don't forget to check out the Argie builders facebook group as well.
    Oops, this one I will pass... I am no Facebook user. But if you guys want to share my blog there, it would be nice!
    Help me build the Argie 15: check out the thread Making an Argie 15 in Brazil - Need help with building options

    Take a look at my boat: Building an Argie 15 in Brazil - PM me to receive update notices.


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