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Thread: 1967 Epee duel Deffere vs. Ribiere

  1. #1
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    Default 1967 Epee duel Deffere vs. Ribiere

    Lets bring back the duel!

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    Default Re: 1967 Epee duel Deffere vs. Ribiere

    If I understand, Deffere told Ribiere to shut up and called him stupid. Ribiere challenged him, even though he didn't know scheiss from Shinola about swords.
    He was cut twice, and agreed to stop. He was getting married the next day.
    Have a Holly Jolly Christmas🎅

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    Default Re: 1967 Epee duel Deffere vs. Ribiere

    it is oddly both brutal and civilized at the same time. At least duels of that nature can be called at first sign of blood.. pistols were a bit more perminent
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    Default Re: 1967 Epee duel Deffere vs. Ribiere

    As a modern pentathlon comp from 34 to 44 their technique is crap. They lead with arm extended, no reflexive movements, no foot work and no balestres or lunges. Total pussies!!!
    Xanthorrea

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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by purri View Post
    As a modern pentathlon comp from 34 to 44 their technique is crap. They lead with arm extended, no reflexive movements, no foot work and no balestres or lunges. Total pussies!!!
    Two things.

    First, sport fencing is a very different...sport...than actually trying to harm someone without yourself being harmed.

    Also, I'm taking epée lessons right now[1] at Salle Auriol here in Seattle. Ditto for #1 son, though he recently switched to foil.

    One technique that the epée coaches at the [i]salle[/] teach is what you observed in the newsreel -- keep your sword arm extended like that. It is a defensive move in that your opponent is likely to score for you when he gets tired or cocky and initiates an attack.... and advances or lunges into the blade that you have thoughtfully placed there. It also controls distance so it is more difficult for your opponent to reach you, unless she has preternaturally long arms like Michael Phelps.

    Fencing is illegal. I've got a suspicion that the mayor is holding that stance to give him a fig leaf of legal cover if something went badly south and les gendarmes became involved. If he has witnesses (or a newsreel) showing that he wasn't actively attacking, he might be able make a claim of legitimate self-defense.

    [1] Actually, though, I'm taking a break for the moment. Work in retail, things get a little hectic in November and December. But I shall return.
    You would not enjoy Nietzsche, sir. He is fundamentally unsound. — P.G. Wodehouse (Carry On, Jeeves)

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    Default Re: 1967 Epee duel Deffere vs. Ribiere

    I will forever love the swordplay in Scaramouche.
    Gerard>
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  7. #7
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    Default 1967 Epee duel Deffere vs. Ribiere

    Quote Originally Posted by Gerarddm View Post
    I will forever love the swordplay in Scaramouche.


    You should watch The Duellists (1977), Ridley Scott's first film. Harvey Keitel and Keith Carradine are two of Napoleon's officers who aren't quite as collegial as the general staff might have hoped them to be. They carry on a on-and-off again running duel over 20 years. Brilliant swordplay.
    Last edited by Nicholas Carey; 12-07-2018 at 12:07 AM.
    You would not enjoy Nietzsche, sir. He is fundamentally unsound. — P.G. Wodehouse (Carry On, Jeeves)

  8. #8
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    Default Re: 1967 Epee duel Deffere vs. Ribiere

    NON!. The sword arm becomes tired at extension and swiftly loses ability to manipulate the weapon and loses control of the body to react. The currently taught Hungarian school does not use the other arm as a pendulum to counterbalance and exposes the full torso. Trust me. The current school relies that the greater exposure and hand/arm flipping as a supposed means of distraction will NOT win the day. Might be OK for younger competitors but as it is a 3 hit tourney across many ages they will lose over time. It is not called the conversation of the blades for nothing! As you might discover a blade is best implemented as a chopstick. Subtly and as one might use a manual transmission.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nicholas Carey View Post
    Two things.

    First, sport fencing is a very different...sport...than actually trying to harm someone without yourself being harmed.

    Also, I'm taking epée lessons right now[1] at Salle Auriol here in Seattle. Ditto for #1 son, though he recently switched to foil.

    One technique that the epée coaches at the [i]salle[/] teach is what you observed in the newsreel -- keep your sword arm extended like that. It is a defensive move in that your opponent is likely to score for you when he gets tired or cocky and initiates an attack.... and advances or lunges into the blade that you have thoughtfully placed there. It also controls distance so it is more difficult for your opponent to reach you, unless she has preternaturally long arms like Michael Phelps.

    Fencing is illegal. I've got a suspicion that the mayor is holding that stance to give him a fig leaf of legal cover if something went badly south and les gendarmes became involved. If he has witnesses (or a newsreel) showing that he wasn't actively attacking, he might be able make a claim of legitimate self-defense.

    [1] Actually, though, I'm taking a break for the moment. Work in retail, things get a little hectic in November and December. But I shall return.
    Xanthorrea

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    Default Re: 1967 Epee duel Deffere vs. Ribiere

    Yeah, I remember reading somewhere how a fairly accomplished sport fencer chose to do some practice with sharps rather than blunts. And one of the first things that became obvious was how the tactics changed when actual injury was a real possibility. It became a whole lot more important to not put yourself in mortal danger than to score a touch.

    Lunges are designed to kill, eh? To impale vital organs. And they are quite a risk, if anticipated. If you don't want to kill, but only to avenge an insult, I can see how tactically, they might not be a first best option.

    Me? I'd challenge with epees for insult, but with military sabres for something worse.
    If I use the word "God," I sure don't mean an old man in the sky who just loves the occasional goat sacrifice. - Anne Lamott

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    Default Re: 1967 Epee duel Deffere vs. Ribiere

    Safer to use Ken Dodd's tickling sticks.
    Enjoy a good rum on the rocks at sunset.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: 1967 Epee duel Deffere vs. Ribiere

    Yeah, but that's not the .... point.
    If I use the word "God," I sure don't mean an old man in the sky who just loves the occasional goat sacrifice. - Anne Lamott

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    Default Re: 1967 Epee duel Deffere vs. Ribiere

    Quote Originally Posted by TomF View Post
    Yeah, but that's not the .... point.

    Well:

    Curiously, many who took part in the duel professed to disdain it.

    Sam Houston opposed it, but as a Tennessee congressman, shot Gen. William White in the groin.

    Henry Clay opposed it, but put a bullet through Virginia senator John Randolph’s coat (Randolph being in it at the time) after the senator impugned his integrity as secretary of state and called him some colorful names.

    Hamilton opposed dueling, but met Aaron Burr on the same ground in New Jersey where Hamilton’s eldest son, Philip, had died in a duel not long before. (Maintaining philosophical consistency, Hamilton intended to hold his fire, a common breach of strict dueling etiquette that, sadly, Burr didn’t emulate.)

    Lincoln, too, objected to the practice, but got as far as a dueling ground in Missouri before third parties intervened to keep the Great Emancipator from emancipating a future Civil War general.


    Read more: https://www.smithsonianmag.com/histo...L6gVRmT4hu8.99
    Expansion
    The Burr–Hamilton duel was fought between prominent American politicians Aaron Burr, the sitting Vice President of the United States, and Alexander Hamilton, the former Secretary of the Treasury, at Weehawken, New Jersey.

    It occurred on July 11, 1804, and was the culmination of a long and bitter rivalry between the two men.

    Hamilton shot first, only to miss and hit a tree directly behind Burr; Burr responded by shooting and mortally wounding Hamilton, who was carried to the home of William Bayard Jr., where he died the next day.
    Both men had been involved in duels in the past.
    Hamilton had been a principal in 10 shotless
    duels prior to his fatal encounter with Burr, including duels with William Gordon (1779), Aedanus Burke (1790), John Francis Mercer (1792–1793), James Nicholson (1795), James Monroe (1797), and Ebenezer Purdy and George Clinton (1804).
    Hamilton also served as a second to John Laurens in a 1779 duel with General Charles Lee, and to legal client John Auldjo in a 1787 duel with William Pierce.
    Hamilton also claimed that he had one previous honor dispute with Burr,
    while Burr stated that there were two.
    Enjoy a good rum on the rocks at sunset.

  13. #13
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    Default Re: 1967 Epee duel Deffere vs. Ribiere

    Have a Holly Jolly Christmas🎅

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    Default Re: 1967 Epee duel Deffere vs. Ribiere

    I think only weenies use firearms for dueling. A duel isn't about "equalizing," or even necessarily about killing. It's about up close and very personal accountability for one's words.
    If I use the word "God," I sure don't mean an old man in the sky who just loves the occasional goat sacrifice. - Anne Lamott

  15. #15
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    Default Re: 1967 Epee duel Deffere vs. Ribiere

    Still my favorite sword fight.


  16. #16
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    Default Re: 1967 Epee duel Deffere vs. Ribiere

    Cyrano de Bergerac, one of my favorite movies, it (the OP) ain't.

    Last edited by sharpiefan; 12-07-2018 at 12:44 PM.

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  17. #17
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    Default Re: 1967 Epee duel Deffere vs. Ribiere

    I do love Cyrano. Love that movie, love the play, ...
    If I use the word "God," I sure don't mean an old man in the sky who just loves the occasional goat sacrifice. - Anne Lamott

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