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Thread: Sugar Pine

  1. #1
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    Jun 2014
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    Default Sugar Pine

    Is "sugar pine" (pinus lambertiana) suitable for boat building? I'm thinking floors, thwarts, knees, braces etc. It's also called "moulding pine" used by finish carpenters for making custom mouldings etc. because it's available in long, clear boards...
    Any (respectful) comments are appreciated.
    thanks
    pvg

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Sugar Pine

    Rated as pretty low in rot resistance and not the strongest. but kept sealed up sufficiently?. https://www.wood-database.com/sugar-pine/

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Sugar Pine

    All white pines are rated "heartwood is rated as moderate to low in decay resistance". The only common one rated lower than the rest is radiata pine.

    From: https://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/fplgtr/fplgtr190/chapter_05.pdf
    Common Moisture Specific Modulus Modulus of Work to Impact Compression Compression Shear Tension Side
    name content gravity of rupture elasticity maximum Bending parallel perpendicular parallel perpendicular hardness
    (kPa) (MPa) load (mm) to grain to grain to grain to grain (N)
    (kJ m –3) (kPa) (kPa) (kPa) (kPa)
    Eastern white Green 0.34 34000 6800 36 430 16800 1500 4700 1700 1300
    0.12 0.35 59000 8500 47 460 33100 3000 6200 2100 382
    Sugar Green 0.34 34000 7100 37 430 17000 1400 5000 1900 1200
    0.12 0.36 57000 8200 38 460 30800 3400 7800 2400 1700
    Western white Green 0.36 32000 8200 34 480 16800 1300 4700 1800 1200
    0.12 0.38 67000 10100 61 580 34700 3200 7200 1900
    From Hugh's post:https://www.wood-database.com/sugar-pine/
    Comments: Sugar Pine is the largest of all species of pine, attaining heights of over 200 feet; it’s sheer size, coupled with its thick and massive branches, have lead some botanists to also describe it as the most majestic species of pine as well.
    The wood of Sugar Pine is classified as white pine: this group is sometimes called soft pine, in contrast to the harder yellow pines found in the eastern United States. (The other two primary soft pine species are Eastern White Pine and Western White Pine.) Sugar Pine is significantly lighter and weaker than the species of Southern Yellow Pine, though it has excellent dimensional stability, and is frequently used in the production of patterns/templates and applications where stability is important.
    Management is the art of counting beans. Leadership is the art of making every being count. --Joe Finch

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Sugar Pine

    Possibly for removable / replaceable parts like floorBOARDS, thwarts and rub rails, but I'd stick to more durable / rot resistant wood for structural parts like knees, braces, frames, etc.
    "The enemies of reason have a certain blind look."
    Doctor Jacquin to Lieutenant D'Hubert, in Ridley Scott's first major film _The Duellists_.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Sugar Pine

    GIant pinecones are pretty neat, though.
    Steve Martinsen

  6. #6
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    Jul 2013
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    Emerald Coast, FL
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    Default Re: Sugar Pine

    Easy to shape. Available. Inexpensive. Keep it sealed with epoxy/varnish/paint and keep standing water out of it. If you buy wider boards you can avoid some of the heartwood.

  7. #7
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    Padanaram, MA USA
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    Default Re: Sugar Pine

    If you can tolerate the weight, it would be OK for sheathed strip planking.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Sugar Pine

    Quote Originally Posted by Thorne View Post
    Possibly for removable / replaceable parts like floorBOARDS, thwarts and rub rails, but I'd stick to more durable / rot resistant wood for structural parts like knees, braces, frames, etc.
    There's a reason we call him the smart twin.
    David G
    Harbor Woodworks
    https://www.facebook.com/HarborWoodworks/

    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Sugar Pine

    Quote Originally Posted by David G View Post
    There's a reason we call him the smart twin.
    I’m a flippin’ Genius, I am! ;-)
    BBDE6750-94F0-43CA-BF92-9A827C84FA85.jpeg
    "The enemies of reason have a certain blind look."
    Doctor Jacquin to Lieutenant D'Hubert, in Ridley Scott's first major film _The Duellists_.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Sugar Pine

    Quote Originally Posted by Thorne View Post
    Possibly for removable / replaceable parts like floorBOARDS, thwarts and rub rails, but I'd stick to more durable / rot resistant wood for structural parts like knees, braces, frames, etc.
    +1

    While I only tried to make the point that sugar pine and eastern white are virtually identical for practical purposes, I left out the fact that white pine has a long history of use in boats. On the other hand, the old growth white pine that was OK, but not perfect, was better than the wood you can get today. We also think differently about boats today. A Grand Banks Dory was a heavily built white pine boat that was used hard and worn out before it had a chance to rot. We tend to build our boats lighter, use them gently and keep them around for a long time.
    https://www.glen-l.com/wood-plywood/bb-chap5d.html
    While some types [of white pine] were once popular in boat building, their scarcity and the fact that only second growth stock is sometimes available makes most pine too weak and not durable for boat use. Decay resistance is moderate at best, and its use is best relegated to nonstructural interior joinerywork.
    https://sandypointboatworks.com/wood...types-and-uses
    Pine, White
    There are several varieties of white pine used in boatbuilding. One is the Northern white pine which is native to the eastern United States. The other is the Western or Sugar pine of the west coast. There is another western variety called Ponderosa pine which is less favored. These woods share the common qualities of uniform texture, ease of working. light weight. good retention of paint. and fair resistance to dry rot. It is a favorite material for interior joinery and trim. It is sometimes used for planking but absorbs much water to gain weight as does cypress, The weight is about 26 pounds per cubic foot.
    Management is the art of counting beans. Leadership is the art of making every being count. --Joe Finch

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Sugar Pine

    [QUOTE=Thorne;5749341]I’m a flippin’ Genius, I am! ;-)

    Stable too!! Sorry Thorne, I couldn't resist.
    /QUOTE]

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
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    96

    Default Re: Sugar Pine

    [QUOTE=Gib Etheridge;5749463]
    Quote Originally Posted by Thorne View Post
    I’m a flippin’ Genius, I am! ;-)

    Stable too!! Sorry Thorne, I couldn't resist.
    /QUOTE]
    Well, I'm neither stable nor genius, so I do appreciate the comments about the use of sugar pine; I will use other stuff- being in northern California (Sonoma County), I have plenty of Douglas Fir available.
    Thanks folks
    pvg

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Sugar Pine

    I've built two small boats using Pine. Just painted open boats, nothing special and they have lasted just fine with no noticable problems in over 20 years. I think the problems show up in areas of the boat that are not open to air circulation, and improper storage. I know of another Pine boat that didn't fare as well. It was stored upside down and condensation collected and pooled up underneath the breasthook and knees that were never designed to be in that position. (This same problem of upside-down winter storage is not uncommon. It's better to keep them right side up)

  14. #14
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    Ct.
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    Default Re: Sugar Pine

    Nothing wrong with pine, ask these guys.

    http://www.pulsiferhampton.com/

    https://www.westpointskiff.com/

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