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Thread: There are no words....

  1. #1
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    Default There are no words....

    ...except, possibly, for 'hypocrisy'.

    “During more than five years as a housekeeper at the Trump National Golf Club, Victorina Morales has made Donald Trump’s bed, cleaned his toilet and dusted his crystal golf trophies. When he visited as president, she was directed to wear a pin in the shape of the American flag adorned with a Secret Service logo,” the New York Times reports.

    “Because of the ‘outstanding’ support she has provided during Mr. Trump’s visits, Ms. Morales in July was given a certificate from the White House Communications Agency inscribed with her name.”

    “Quite an achievement for an undocumented immigrant housekeeper.”
    "Reason and facts are sacrificed to opinion and myth. Demonstrable falsehoods are circulated and recycled as fact. Narrow minded opinion refuses to be subjected to thought and analysis. Too many now subject events to a prefabricated set of interpretations, usually provided by a biased media source. The myth is more comfortable than the often difficult search for truth."







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    Default Re: There are no words....

    #lockhimup
    Gerard>
    ​Freeland, WA

    Resistance is NOT futile.

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    Default Re: There are no words....

    Ms. Morales expects she will have to leave her job as soon as her name and work status are made public. She understands she could be deported. On Thursday, she spent the day with her lawyer, and as news of her disclosures spread, she did not answer a phone call from her supervisor at the golf course. She said she did not expect to return to work.

    She said she is certain that her employers — perhaps even Mr. Trump — knew of her unlawful status all along.

    “I ask myself, is it possible that this señor thinks we have papers? He knows we don’t speak English,” Ms. Morales said. “Why wouldn’t he figure it out?”
    Skip

    ---This post is delivered with righteous passion and with a solemn southern directness --
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  4. #4
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    Default Re: There are no words....

    Why wouldn’t he figure it out?”

    Sweet Mother of God reds are stupid.
    The best statement I've seen from this latest carnage came from a student who lived through it -

    "My generation will not allow this to continue!"

    Remember voting age is 18. Read it and weep reds.

  5. #5

    Default Re: There are no words....

    The wall needs to be built between the illegal worker and the employers, not between the US and Mexico. Make it painful, fines then jail time for repeat offenders, problem goes away.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: There are no words....

    and there will be no words on this thread from Trump's cheerleaders justifying his actions.
    Elect a clown expect a circus

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    Default Re: There are no words....

    Quote Originally Posted by Bobcat View Post
    and there will be no words on this thread from Trump's cheerleaders justifying his actions.
    What actions? This one...

    Ms. Morales said she will never forget the day Mr. Trump pulled up to the pro shop in his cart as she was washing its large, arched windows. Noticing that Ms. Morales, who is shy of five feet tall, could not reach the top, he said, “Excuse me,” grabbed her rag and wiped the upper portion of the glass.
    Mr. Trump then asked Ms. Morales her name and where she was from, she recalled. “I said, ‘I am from Guatemala.’ He said, ‘Guatemalans are hard-working people.’” The president then reached into his pocket and handed her a $50 bill.
    Ms Morales received a nice little honor from the White House. She disagrees with Trump on immigration, understandable. She’s concerned now about her job and status in the US. But not because of actions from the White House. Nope it appears some one from the New York Times has outed her. Using her for their own profit, then they’ll ditch her and move on. Just to make a headline.

    It’s all spelled out in the article.
    "Simple minds discuss people, Average minds discuss things, and Great minds discuss ideas".

  8. #8
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    Default Re: There are no words....

    You might try reading the article before criticizing. This woman - through her lawyer- sought out the Times, to tell her story. Motivation? Trumps abusive language towards immigrants. She’s principled; that’s a refreshing change.
    There's a lot of things they didn't tell me when I signed on with this outfit....

  9. #9
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    Default Re: There are no words....

    Quote Originally Posted by George Jung View Post
    You might try reading the article before criticizing. This woman - through her lawyer- sought out the Times, to tell her story. Motivation? Trumps abusive language towards immigrants. She’s principled; that’s a refreshing change.
    I have read the article.

    You are correct they came forward...

    Ms. Morales and Ms. Diaz approached The New York Times through their New Jersey lawyer, Anibal Romero, who is representing them on immigration matters.
    We need to know what immigration issues they are facing, although the obvious answer is deportation, and when those matters started. Because it sounds a lot like they 'came forward' when their lawyer decided it was convenient to their case.

    That Trump is an ass is not news. But they shared several times when he was kind to them, and tipped well. The White House also appears to have treated them well.

    More information needs to come out to understand their true motives.

    On the topic of not speaking english (although they seem to understand it) and why Trump 'didn't figure it out'. Imagine the outcry had the article read... 'Trump demands investigation into employee because she doesn't speak english!'

    Rightfully so too.

    As far as I know, liberals have always stood behind the rights of legal US citizens that could not speak english. Is that still the case? Or are liberals putting aside that value in the interest of Trump bashing?
    "Simple minds discuss people, Average minds discuss things, and Great minds discuss ideas".

  10. #10
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    Default Re: There are no words....

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Smith porter maine View Post
    The wall needs to be built between the illegal worker and the employers, not between the US and Mexico. Make it painful, fines then jail time for repeat offenders, problem goes away.
    We have a solution.Game over.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

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    Default Re: There are no words....

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterSibley View Post
    We have a solution.Game over.
    Nope. People on the left have been saying this for years & years, as have some true conservatives - but the people who hire the illegals make a lot of brib... oops - campaign contributions. So - it won't happen.
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

  12. #12
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    Default Re: There are no words....

    That seems to be the situation with every nasty problem.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  13. #13
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    Default Re: There are no words....

    There is a pattern, isn't there?
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

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    Default Re: There are no words....

    You underestimate Sky Blue's mental gymnastics.


    QUOTE=Bobcat;5748867]and there will be no words on this thread from Trump's cheerleaders justifying his actions.[/QUOTE]

  15. #15
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    Default Re: There are no words....

    Actually, there are words:

    Let’s take a look at federal law. The statute on point here is contained at 8 U.S.C. § 1324(a)(3)(a)and reads, in relevant part:

    Any person who, during any 12-month period, knowingly hires for employment at least 10 individuals with actual knowledge that the individuals are aliens…shall be fined under title 18 or imprisoned for not more than 5 years, or both.

    https://lawandcrime.com/legal-analys...federal-crime/


  16. #16
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    Default Re: There are no words....

    Quote Originally Posted by Garret View Post
    Nope. People on the left have been saying this for years & years, as have some true conservatives - but the people who hire the illegals make a lot of brib... oops - campaign contributions. So - it won't happen.
    Laws denying employment and housing have been attempted often, and overruled just as often from pressure by both sides. The left for political reasons, and both for economic reasons. Sanctuary Cities are hardly a conservative construct. I started a thread that explained how we are subsidizing immigrants: i don’t think that’s a conservative program, either. How many dimocrats, and how many Republicans, have you heard saying we should abolish ICE because they are making raids on businesses that employ illegals?
    Ask not what your country can do for you; ask what you can do for your country. John Fn Kennedy. (D)

  17. #17
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    Default Re: There are no words....

    Quote Originally Posted by BrianW
    That Trump is an ass is not news. But they shared several times when he was kind to them, and tipped well. The White House also appears to have treated them well.

    More information needs to come out to understand their true motives.
    Isn't it perfectly clear that their motive is to illustrate what a complete and utter hypocrite Trump is on this issue? That he rails and demagogues about illegal immigration even as he himself employs illegal immigrants?

    Another example of his shameless hypocrisy:

    1. On Twitter, Sept. 15, 2017
    Donald J. Trump

    @realDonaldTrump
    CHAIN MIGRATION cannot be allowed to be part of any legislation on Immigration!


    2. During an interview with Sean Hannity on Fox News, Oct. 11, 2017
    "Chain migration is one of the disasters. You allow one person and in that one person brings in 10 or 12 people," Trump said to Hannity.


    3. During a Cabinet meeting, and then on Twitter, Nov. 1, 2017
    Trump talked at the Nov. 1 Cabinet meeting about the truck attack in New York by Saipov. "We do not want chain migration where somebody like him ultimately will be allowed to bring in many, many members of his family."
    PolitiFact rated Trump's repeated claims that Saipov had sponsored 20 or more people for immigration into the U.S. as false. Green card holders, such as Saipov, are only able to petition their spouse and unmarried children. Saipov had three children in the U.S. who are all citizens. And, there are no reports of Saipov, then 29 years old, fathering more than 20 kids before he left Uzbekistan and petitioning for them to come to the U.S., PolitiFact said.

    Trump's comments about "chain migration" were featured on a video posted on his Twitter account the day after the Cabinet meeting,
    Donald J. Trump

    @realDonaldTrump
    Congress must end chain migration so that we can have a system that is SECURITY BASED! We need to make AMERICA SAFE! #USA����


    4. During the State of the Union, Jan. 30, 2018:
    "The fourth and final pillar protects the nuclear family by ending chain migration. Under the current broken system, a single immigrant can bring in virtually unlimited numbers of distant relatives. Under our plan, we focus on the immediate family by limiting sponsorships to spouses and minor children. This vital reform is necessary, not just for our economy, but for our security, and for the future of America. In recent weeks, two terrorist attacks in New York were made possible by the visa lottery and chain migration. In the age of terrorism, these programs present risks we can just no longer afford. It is time to reform these outdated immigration rules, and finally bring our immigration system into the 21st century," he said.


    5. During a weekly address, Feb. 10, 2018:
    "My administration has identified three major priorities for creating a safe, modern, and lawful immigration system: fully securing the border, ending chain migration, and canceling the visa lottery. Chain migration is a disaster, and very unfair to our country. The visa lottery is something that should have never been allowed in the first place. People enter a lottery to come into our country. What kind of a system is that? It is time for Congress to act and to protect Americans."


    6. During a tax reform roundtable in West Virginia, April 5, 2018
    "And chain migration -- think of that. So you come in, and now you can bring your family, and then you can bring your mother and your father. You can bring your grandmother. You can bring your this; you can bring -- we had somebody on the West Side Highway, which I know very well -- in Manhattan -- he ran over -- I think he killed about eight people," he said.


    7. During an interview with Rush Limbaugh, Aug. 1, 2018
    "We have the worst laws! How about chain migration? One person comes in and you end up with 32 people. The person that ran down 18 people on the West Side Highway, he's allowed to have -- and I think eight died. He has 22 members of his family in the United States because of chain migration. So we have to change this stuff, Rush," he said.


    8. During a campaign rally in Ohio, Aug. 4, 2018
    "How about chain migration? How about that? Somebody comes in, he brings his mother, and his father, and his aunt and uncle, 15 times removed. He brings them all," Trump said.
    https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/lady...ry?id=57121694

    And then, on August 9, 2018, Slovenians Viktor and Amalija Knav were granted U.S. citizenship after having previously been granted a green card. Their green card application was sponsored by their naturalized daughter, Melania Trump. This process is known as “chain immigration.”
    .
    Last edited by Tom Montgomery; 12-07-2018 at 07:00 AM.
    War is peace.
    Freedom is slavery.
    Ignorance is strength.
    Trump is doing beautifully.





  18. #18
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    Default Re: There are no words....

    Quote Originally Posted by BrianW View Post
    More information needs to come out to understand their true motives.
    Its always good to have the full story, but why is this important? The Trump golf course employed an illegal alien. Why should they not be held liable for doing so?

    But if we're really interested in context, how do we square the tip, the honor from the White House, and the kind Private words with Trump's inflammatory statements in immigration? How can it be that he tells her in private that Guatemalans are hard-working people and in public says outrageous things about the burden immigrants put on the U.S.? Is it that he really understands the nature of immigrants' character and intention and is pandering in public? Does he have a double standard? What could possibly explain it?

  19. #19
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    Default Re: There are no words....

    The explanation is that Trump is a shameless demagogue. And his shameless base eats it all up with a spoon.

    Or as a Forumite posted regarding another topic: "Republicans are slimier than slime. Completely beneath contempt. These days, anyone who supports them or condones their tactics is equally deserving of contempt."
    War is peace.
    Freedom is slavery.
    Ignorance is strength.
    Trump is doing beautifully.





  20. #20
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    Default Re: There are no words....

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Ross View Post
    Its always good to have the full story, but why is this important? The Trump golf course employed an illegal alien. Why should they not be held liable for doing so?

    But if we're really interested in context, how do we square the tip, the honor from the White House, and the kind Private words with Trump's inflammatory statements in immigration? How can it be that he tells her in private that Guatemalans are hard-working people and in public says outrageous things about the burden immigrants put on the U.S.? Is it that he really understands the nature of immigrants' character and intention and is pandering in public? Does he have a double standard? What could possibly explain it?
    It’s not so hard to understand, if you try to, instead of looking for a way to criticize everything he does.

    It’s not so hard to understand that as an individual, in person, he’s a warm, caring soul, and when he hands out money, it’s his money to hand out. As the leader of the country, he sees that the impact of the workers is taking jobs and depressing wages, that the criminals are preying on everyone, and filling our prisons. And that when the welfare worker hands them benefits, they’re handing out other people’s money.
    Ask not what your country can do for you; ask what you can do for your country. John Fn Kennedy. (D)

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    Default Re: There are no words....

    Quote Originally Posted by mdh View Post
    It’s not so hard to understand, if you try to, instead of looking for a way to criticize everything he does.

    It’s not so hard to understand that as an individual, in person, he’s a warm, caring soul, and when he hands out money, it’s his money to hand out. As the leader of the country, he sees that the impact of the workers is taking jobs and depressing wages, that the criminals are preying on everyone, and filling our prisons. And that when the welfare worker hands them benefits, they’re handing out other people’s money.
    Some fair points. I’m not questioning his private generosity. I’m struck by the dissonance between a reported private remark that Guatemalans are hard working and public statements that they are not. One wonders what he really belueves

    As for the rest, it’s been thoroughly discredited that migrants steal jobs, depress wages,commit more crimes than native-born people, or receive welfare benefits. You can look it up too.

  22. #22
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    Default Re: There are no words....

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Ross View Post
    As for the rest, it’s been thoroughly discredited that migrants steal jobs, depress wages,commit more crimes than native-born people, or receive welfare benefits. You can look it up too.
    Well, he could, but that might impact baseless pre-conceived notions.
    "The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails."
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  23. #23
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    Default Re: There are no words....

    Quote Originally Posted by BrianW View Post
    I have read the article.

    You are correct they came forward...



    We need to know what immigration issues they are facing, although the obvious answer is deportation, and when those matters started. Because it sounds a lot like they 'came forward' when their lawyer decided it was convenient to their case.

    That Trump is an ass is not news. But they shared several times when he was kind to them, and tipped well. The White House also appears to have treated them well.

    More information needs to come out to understand their true motives.

    On the topic of not speaking english (although they seem to understand it) and why Trump 'didn't figure it out'. Imagine the outcry had the article read... 'Trump demands investigation into employee because she doesn't speak english!'

    Rightfully so too.

    As far as I know, liberals have always stood behind the rights of legal US citizens that could not speak english. Is that still the case? Or are liberals putting aside that value in the interest of Trump bashing?
    Quote Originally Posted by C. Ross View Post
    Its always good to have the full story, but why is this important? The Trump golf course employed an illegal alien. Why should they not be held liable for doing so?

    But if we're really interested in context, how do we square the tip, the honor from the White House, and the kind Private words with Trump's inflammatory statements in immigration? How can it be that he tells her in private that Guatemalans are hard-working people and in public says outrageous things about the burden immigrants put on the U.S.? Is it that he really understands the nature of immigrants' character and intention and is pandering in public? Does he have a double standard? What could possibly explain it?
    Right vs wrong; motivations irrelevant.
    There's a lot of things they didn't tell me when I signed on with this outfit....

  24. #24
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    Default Re: There are no words....

    When Trump hands out $50 bills as a tip, it's as significant as if I'd given someone a nickel. "Generosity" only from the perspective of the not-rich recipient, rather than the impact on Trump's day-to-day.
    If I use the word "God," I sure don't mean an old man in the sky who just loves the occasional goat sacrifice. - Anne Lamott

  25. #25
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    Default Re: There are no words....

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Ross View Post
    Its always good to have the full story, but why is this important? The Trump golf course employed an illegal alien. Why should they not be held liable for doing so?
    You've quoted me completely out of context. I was referring to knowing the full story for the motives of the women, and nothing to do with the Trump Resort manager.

    I've always said the hiring manager(s) (of any company) should be held responsible for following the law when it comes to hiring people. Further, if it's apparent that breaking those type of laws is encouraged by upper management, then prosecute them too.

    I do find it strange that people who seemingly want to turn a blind eye to illegal immigrants are the first to want to bring down those that hire them. Strange twist of logic there.
    Last edited by BrianW; 12-07-2018 at 11:39 PM.
    "Simple minds discuss people, Average minds discuss things, and Great minds discuss ideas".

  26. #26
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    Default Re: There are no words....

    Einsatzgruppen?
    Quote Originally Posted by petersibley View Post
    we have a solution.game over.
    Xanthorrea

  27. #27
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    Default Re: There are no words....

    Sure there are words. He’s deplorable. He’s a stain that must be scrubbed out.


    https://mobile.twitter.com/realDonal...0%2Fframe.html

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    Default Re: There are no words....

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Smith porter maine View Post
    The wall needs to be built between the illegal worker and the employers, not between the US and Mexico. Make it painful, fines then jail time for repeat offenders, problem goes away.
    Prison time for whom? The exploited workers, or the management that hired them?
    When you can take the pebble from my hand, it will be time for you to leave.

  29. #29

    Default Re: There are no words....

    The management that hired them, no jobs no point in coming here. We should be going after those who don't do due diligence in their hiring practices, everyone from those who hire illegals to mow their lawns to companies that employ them. No work/money no problem, $5k fine first time for each person improperly employed second time $10k each third time prison.

  30. #30
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    Default Re: There are no words....

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Smith porter maine View Post
    The wall needs to be built between the illegal worker and the employers, not between the US and Mexico. Make it painful, fines then jail time for repeat offenders, problem goes away.
    The ONLY people who support illegal immigration are the employers who hire illegal immigrants.
    How do we form a mutiny? Our new captain is navigating poorly.

  31. #31
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    Default Re: There are no words....

    Quote Originally Posted by John Smith View Post
    The ONLY people who support illegal immigration are the employers who hire illegal immigrants.
    The mindset that creates sanctuary cities also supports illegal immigration. We should be compassionate in our treatment of illegal immigrants , but also united to prevent the situation.

    It’s not logical to support sanctuary cities and then call for the prosecution of those that hire them.
    "Simple minds discuss people, Average minds discuss things, and Great minds discuss ideas".

  32. #32

    Default Re: There are no words....

    Quote Originally Posted by BrianW View Post
    The mindset that creates sanctuary cities also supports illegal immigration. We should be compassionate in our treatment of illegal immigrants , but also united to prevent the situation.

    It’s not logical to support sanctuary cities and then call for the prosecution of those that hire them.
    How does a municipality that doesn't want to use it's limited police resources doing the federal governments job, have anything to do with people and businesses employing undocumented workers, the problem is we don't punish employers harshly enough. No job no point in coming here.

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    Default Re: There are no words....

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Smith porter maine View Post
    How does a municipality that doesn't want to use it's limited police resources doing the federal governments job, have anything to do with people and businesses employing undocumented workers, the problem is we don't punish employers harshly enough. No job no point in coming here.
    That’s such a fraudulent argument: local law enforcement often cooperates with federal agencies. They often request, and benefit greatly, from it. But i’ll join with you on punishing the employers. It won’t make you popular with many other liberals, but we could make a pact: i refuse to vote for anybody who doesn’t support denying jobs to illegals. How about it?
    Ask not what your country can do for you; ask what you can do for your country. John Fn Kennedy. (D)

  34. #34
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    Default Re: There are no words....

    Quote Originally Posted by BrianW View Post
    You've quoted me completely out of context. I was referring to knowing the full story for the motives of the women, and nothing to do with the Trump Resort manager.

    I've always said the hiring manager(s) (of any company) should be held responsible for following the law when it comes to hiring people. Further, if it's apparent that breaking those type of laws is encouraged by upper management, then prosecute them too.

    I do find it strange that people who seemingly want to turn a blind eye to illegal immigrants are the first to want to bring down those that hire them. Strange twist of logic there.
    im not sure why you see a disconnect. The poorest, looking for a better life, enticed by minimum wage jobs- used by American businesses willfully breaking the law. As Chris has said- repeatedly- enforce the laws already on the books, and problem solved. BTW- Obama tried that- it was very successful- but had to back off when one party complained. Guess which one.
    There's a lot of things they didn't tell me when I signed on with this outfit....

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    Default Re: There are no words....

    Quote Originally Posted by George Jung View Post
    im not sure why you see a disconnect. The poorest, looking for a better life, enticed by minimum wage jobs- used by American businesses willfully breaking the law. As Chris has said- repeatedly- enforce the laws already on the books, and problem solved. BTW- Obama tried that- it was very successful- but had to back off when one party complained. Guess which one.
    The oyster shucking party.
    Ask not what your country can do for you; ask what you can do for your country. John Fn Kennedy. (D)

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