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Thread: Breaking in a new motorcycle engine.... is it a myth?

  1. #36
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    Default Re: Breaking in a new motorcycle engine.... is it a myth?

    This is the sort of thing that will make a difference 50,000 miles down the road.

  2. #37
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    Default Re: Breaking in a new motorcycle engine.... is it a myth?

    OK so I can't believe NO ONE mentioned that the DUDE Blew his face off with fireworks !!!!!
    This post is temporary and my disappear at the discretion of the managment

  3. #38
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    Default Re: Breaking in a new motorcycle engine.... is it a myth?

    Quote Originally Posted by robm View Post
    This is the sort of thing that will make a difference 50,000 miles down the road.
    If it made no measurable difference after 1,000 miles from brand new, WHAT would be different 49,000 miles later?
    "Reason and facts are sacrificed to opinion and myth. Demonstrable falsehoods are circulated and recycled as fact. Narrow minded opinion refuses to be subjected to thought and analysis. Too many now subject events to a prefabricated set of interpretations, usually provided by a biased media source. The myth is more comfortable than the often difficult search for truth."







  4. #39
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    Default Re: Breaking in a new motorcycle engine.... is it a myth?

    As Lew inferred, lugging the engine kills the bottom end. Short bursts are good for break in.
    Xanthorrea

  5. #40
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    Default Re: Breaking in a new motorcycle engine.... is it a myth?

    Norman, I happened to have watched that video yesterday morning. No big deal was made of it, but at the end of the video he mentioned that the oils from both engines tested the same.

    Racetech engine shop oversaw the test, so it was hardly a couple of amateurs playing around in their shed.

    I think your approach to the run in period for your bike is about right and will see it run well and remain reliable. Care to hazard a guess as to how many bikes get run in exactly as per the owners manual? My guess is Zilch.
    There is nothing quite as permanent as a good temporary repair.

  6. #41
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    Default Re: Breaking in a new motorcycle engine.... is it a myth?

    Piston rings wear gradually. If you take off a whole bunch in the first few thousand miles, it won't be there at 50,000. It starts burning oil sooner than it could if broken differently.

  7. #42
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    Default Re: Breaking in a new motorcycle engine.... is it a myth?

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe (SoCal) View Post
    OK so I can't believe NO ONE mentioned that the DUDE Blew his face off with fireworks !!!!!
    How do you know that he was responsible for that?
    There is nothing quite as permanent as a good temporary repair.

  8. #43
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    Default Re: Breaking in a new motorcycle engine.... is it a myth?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stiletto View Post
    Norman, I happened to have watched that video yesterday morning. No big deal was made of it, but at the end of the video he mentioned that the oils from both engines tested the same.

    Racetech engine shop oversaw the test, so it was hardly a couple of amateurs playing around in their shed.
    My thoughts, exactly.

    I'm an engineer.... I believe in things that are measurable. If there was NO meaningfully measurable difference between the 'abused' engine, versus the 'gently broken in' engine, then someone will have to tell me WHAT the difference is, which some people think assures problems in the future.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stiletto View Post
    I think your approach to the run in period for your bike is about right and will see it run well and remain reliable. Care to hazard a guess as to how many bikes get run in exactly as per the owners manual? My guess is Zilch.
    I'm sure you're right about that... but, of course, we don't know what happens to those bikes long down the road.

    Still, if you were picking repair parts from those two engines, unaware of how the engines were broken in, and you couldn't measure ANY out-of-spec' difference between the parts, then it seems to me that the parts are indeed identical.
    "Reason and facts are sacrificed to opinion and myth. Demonstrable falsehoods are circulated and recycled as fact. Narrow minded opinion refuses to be subjected to thought and analysis. Too many now subject events to a prefabricated set of interpretations, usually provided by a biased media source. The myth is more comfortable than the often difficult search for truth."







  9. #44
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    Default Re: Breaking in a new motorcycle engine.... is it a myth?

    It makes me wonder why Honda specify the slow breakin period in the manual if both methods work equally well. Honda engineers are about as good as it gets .
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  10. #45
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    Default Re: Breaking in a new motorcycle engine.... is it a myth?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rick-Mi View Post
    That is by definition, a glaring example of a logical fallacy.
    Do you have any idea of Jake's mechanical knowledge? I'm a reasonably competent mechanic & have rebuilt hundreds of different motors. I gotta say that my knowledge is pitiful when compared to his.

    However - I'll toss in my 2 cents: I break an engine in by treating it gently for the first 100 hours or 1,000 miles - never revving high & even more important never lugging. IMO, the most important thing is oil changes. For example, my tractor requires a change every 50 hours. I changed it @ 5 & then again @ 10 - then went to the 50. Maybe I wasted 50 bucks - but then again - I may have gotten rid of some metal crap that was left in from machining.

    Additionally, back when I rebuilt a lot of engines (oh so many years ago) for customers - I installed a rev-limiting ignition rotor (VW's had 'em & they could be modified to fit most anything) for the 1st 1,000 miles. When the customer brought the car back for the 1K service (oil change, re torque the head, etc.), I took that rotor out & put in the correct one for the car. Never had a customer come back with engine issues after a rebuild.
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

  11. #46
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    Default Re: Breaking in a new motorcycle engine.... is it a myth?

    My Dad rode British Norton and Matchless 350cc singles as a dispatch rider in WW2, among other tasks. He said it was standard practice among riders to add Brasso, a liquid metal polish to the oil for a few hours to ''run the engines in.'' Some specific results of that abuse would have been good to examine.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  12. #47
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    Default Re: Breaking in a new motorcycle engine.... is it a myth?

    Strange - no-one has mentioned the main cause of engine wear.... high loads on cold oil. Start the engine and give it a big rev when the oil is cold and you'll do more damage than Flash Gordon in full battle mode. Oil is thicker when cold and it also drains out of some contact areas over time. Most engine damage is done in the first 90 seconds of every startup.

    That said... oil takes time to warm to the correct temperature, and hence viscosity. A lot of time. BMW fit oil temp gauges to their high performance engines for a reason - and the maximum recommended engine revs vary according to the oil temperature. On my car, it takes about 10 kilometres of driving for the oil to come up to 80C. The water temp gauge is up to spec in a fraction of that.... but it only measures water temp near the thermostat.
    "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome and charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" Mark Twain... so... Carpe the living sh!t out of the Diem

  13. #48
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    Default Re: Breaking in a new motorcycle engine.... is it a myth?

    Engines built today are machined in a "torqued to final assembly" spec and an operating temperature controlled environment, with a considerably finer surface finish, or in other words, the parts already fit perfectly. This is the main reason that cars today will now routinely run 300k as opposed to the mere 100k of not so many years ago. A good modern truck engine will go a half million, easy. There is no "break-in". Modern piston rings are very low tension and the force that seals them against the cylinder wall is generated by combustion pressure. (No pressure, no friction, a huge change from past practice. But a few things are "bad practice", idling and low combustion pressure caused by "taking it easy".
    My ability to explain this here is limited, that is my fault. I found a "dated" but good explanation with some inconsequential errors here; Have at it...

    "When the engine is operating, a force known as Break [sic] Mean Effective Pressure or B.M.E.P is generated within the combustion chamber. B.M.E.P. is the resultant force produced from the controlled burning of the fuel air mixture that the engine runs on. The higher the power setting the engine is running at, the higher the B.M.E.P. is and conversely as the power setting is lowered the B.M.E.P. becomes less.

    B.M.E.P is an important part of the break in process. When the engine is running, B.M.E.P. is present in the cylinder behind the piston rings and it's force pushes the piston ring outward against the coarse honed cylinder wall. Piston rings are designed to take advantage of the pressure and us it to push the rings out against the cylinder wall. Therefore, as pressure builds during the compression stroke, the rings are pushed harder against the cylinder wall which aids in seating the rings.

    The higher the B.M.E.P, the harder the piston ring is pushed against the wall. The surface temperature at the piston ring face and cylinder wall interface will be greater with high B.M.E.P. than with low B.M.E.P. This is because we are pushing the ring harder against the rough cylinder wall surface causing high amounts of friction and thus heat. The primary deterrent of break in is this heat. Allowing to much heat to build up at the ring to cylinder wall interface will cause the lubricating oil that is present to break down and glaze the cylinder wall surface. This glaze will prevent any further seating of the piston rings. If glazing is allowed to happen break in will never occur. Also, if too little pressure (throttle) is used during the break-in period glazing will also occur.

    Most people seem to operate on the philosophy that they can best get their money's worth from any mechanical device by treating it with great care. This is probably true, but in many cases it is necessary to interpret what great care really means. This is particularly applicable when considering the break-in of a modern, reciprocating engine.

    For those who still think that running the engine hard during break-in falls into the category of cruel and unusual punishment, there is one more argument for using high power loading for short periods (to avoid excessive heat) during the break-in. The use of low power settings does not expand the piston rings enough, and a film of oil is left on the cylinder walls. The high temperatures in the combustion chamber will oxidize this oil film so that it creates glazing of the cylinder walls. When this happens, the ring break-in process stops, and excessive oil consumption frequently occurs. The bad news is that extensive glazing can only be corrected by removing the cylinders and rehoning the walls. This is expensive, and it is an expense that can be avoided by proper break in procedures.

    * "Brake Mean Effective Pressure"


    http://www.ntnoa.org/enginebreakin.htm

  14. #49
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    Default Re: Breaking in a new motorcycle engine.... is it a myth?

    I was Always told to follow the manufacture’s recommended break-in procedure but don’t baby the engine. Always seems to work for me.

    Ralphie

  15. #50
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    Default Re: Breaking in a new motorcycle engine.... is it a myth?

    I have just over 600km on my new Honda 150 Click. It doesn't get babied. It gets a fistful away from the lights, up to about 60.... or 85 or so if on the SuperHighway. It doesn't idle, once warmed up. It has automatic stop/start at the lights - you come to a halt, the engine stops until you twist the throttle.... and it's an instant start. It had it's first service - which I assume included an oil change at 500km.
    "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome and charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime" Mark Twain... so... Carpe the living sh!t out of the Diem

  16. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick-Mi View Post
    Absolutely, positively, 100% correct.

    With the sophisticated measurement instruments required, time and painstaking procedure involved to do it right, there is no way a man on the street could perform an adequate analysis of this nature. But, you can be sure Japanese and German engineers have. When they specify a particular break in procedure, just believe it and follow their directive.

    That's my take -- trust the engineers that designed the thing.

    My Yamaha SR400's break-in procedure was simple. Don't exceed 4,000 RPM for the first 1,000 miles. No hard acceleration/downshifts. Change the oil at 600 miles. Nothing about continuously varying engine speed (just "avoid riding at the same RPM for long periods of time).

    And if you ride in an urban environment like I do, ordinary city riding pretty much gives you all that for free, and throws in continuously varying engine speeds for good measure. My bike is supremely happy at 3,500-4,000 RPM... which is convenient, since 3,500 RPM in 3rd gear is spot on at 35 miles per hour.

    You'd think the engineers who designed back in the 1970s, from one of the most densely populated places on the planet, knew a thing or two about operating conditions in urban environments.
    You would not enjoy Nietzsche, sir. He is fundamentally unsound. P.G. Wodehouse (Carry On, Jeeves)

  17. #52
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    Default Re: Breaking in a new motorcycle engine.... is it a myth?

    These are the "break-in" instructions included with an (diesel) engine overhaul parts kit...


    "Running your truck on a dynamometer is the best way to ensure proper load and temperature is maintained; however, more often than not, a dynamometer is not an option. In that case, idle time should be limited to less than 10 minutes for checking for leaks and proper oil pressure. High RPM light load operation must be avoided during the run in procedure. Operate the truck pulling the heaviest available trailer allowed for the first 100-150 miles. Operate the truck in the highest available gear within the operating RPM range at 75%-80% of rated horsepower".

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