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Thread: Les Gilets Jaunes Triompheront

  1. #36
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    Default Re: Les Gilets Jaunes Triompheront

    Ambulance drivers have now joined the protesters and are clashing with riot police. The police and paramedics are fighting each other in Paris.

    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/worl...-a4006951.html

  2. #37
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    Default Re: Les Gilets Jaunes Triompheront

    Quote Originally Posted by Sky Blue View Post
    If Trump was being protested like this in NY or DC, you blokes would be in 7th Heaven.
    You may recall a few protests of similar or greater scope, though peaceful.



    Quote Originally Posted by Sky Blue View Post
    It's Macron, though, so it's not a thing apparently.
    It is a thing. Macron is a center right guy, and a relative newbie, in a country with a very leftist capital and a relatively conservative countryside. Gas prices don’t explain it, though. This just seems like typical Parisian anti-authoritarianism.

    9C0D4C6B-26F6-45F4-AE4C-29FA439D0228.jpg

  3. #38
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    Default Re: Les Gilets Jaunes Triompheront

    The National Police have fired more than 12,000 tear gas canisters to suppress protesters, one of which is reported now to have hit an elderly woman in the face, killing her, as she sought to shut her apartment window to prevent tear gas from entering her room.

  4. #39
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    Default Re: Les Gilets Jaunes Triompheront

    The tax on petrol and diesel has not yet been imposed. It's not reflected in current pricing yet.

    There is polling now showing that 75% of the French public agrees with the protests. You will note that this figure roughly approximates Macron's disapproval polling in France.

  5. #40
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    Default Re: Les Gilets Jaunes Triompheront

    Quote Originally Posted by Sky Blue View Post
    The tax on petrol and diesel has not yet been imposed. It's not reflected in current pricing yet.

    There is polling now showing that 75% of the French public agrees with the protests. You will note that this figure roughly approximates Macron's disapproval polling in France.
    The tax increase in January 1 will be 6.5 cents on diesel and 2.9 cents on petrol. It’s just noise in the price of fuel.

    This is an anti-Macron thing. The violence from the political extremes are pretty shocking.

  6. #41
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    Default Re: Les Gilets Jaunes Triompheront

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Ross View Post
    The tax increase in January 1 will be 6.5 cents on diesel and 2.9 cents on petrol. It’s just noise in the price of fuel.

    I'll let the French people decide what it is they're protesting and whether it is material to them.

  7. #42
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    Default Re: Les Gilets Jaunes Triompheront

    You’ve already stated your conclusion about what is causing the protests.

    The data suggests that fuel prices and taxes haven’t changed materially. The leaders of the protest have already widened their list of grievances. Those who want to make this primarily into protest against climate change regulations are ... menteurs imaginatifs.

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    Default Re: Les Gilets Jaunes Triompheront

    OK class, let's conjugate. Who can give me the third person plural, future indicative of the verb triompher? As in, "they will triumph" in English.

    Anyone?

    Extra points: Is today's French proletariat a well educated group? And who established the public school system in France? (Clue: I find it ironic.)

    Need help anyone? Clues here.
    -Dave

  9. #44
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    Default Re: Les Gilets Jaunes Triompheront

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Ross View Post
    You’ve already stated your conclusion about what is causing the protests.

    The data suggests that fuel prices and taxes haven’t changed materially. The leaders of the protest have already widened their list of grievances. Those who want to make this primarily into protest against climate change regulations are ... menteurs imaginatifs.

    As I've said, I'll let the protesters decide what they're upset about and what is material to them. You seem to be looking for an argument here. Perhaps that is because you support Macron and his initiatives, and are upset that the majority of the French public opposes them.

    Take up your argument with the French. Inform them that their grievances are wrong and they shouldn't be protesting. Good luck.

  10. #45
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    Default Re: Les Gilets Jaunes Triompheront

    I think we’re talking past each other.

    I had hopes for Macron as a center/right leader, and bulwark against socialism and Le Pen nastiness. He’s been in trouble and is in deeper trouble. I don’t think he survives much longer. A pity, because it likely means a socialist France.

    I don’t think the protests are against global warming intervention primarily. It seems to be broad discontent lit by a small match of fuel taxes on top of everything else.

  11. #46
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    Default Re: Les Gilets Jaunes Triompheront

    Macron is in deep trouble
    I don't think so. He has institutional support. France is headed for a long, weary season, I'm afraid. The people don't have the power to drive him from office.

  12. #47
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    Default Re: Les Gilets Jaunes Triompheront

    I think you’re right that Macron himself will not be removed from office. I was meaning more that his party En Marche! is in trouble.

    It is new, without an institutional base.

    One can imagine a no confidence vote leading to Macron as President with a Socialist National Assembly.

  13. #48
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    Default Re: Les Gilets Jaunes Triompheront

    The climate change taxes are only an epi-phenomenon of the protests.

    Yes they started the actions, but the real origin is about general taxes in France.

    As an example I joint a "Bulletin de Salaire" (salary bill ?) of one of my employees.
    It's about one month salary at 35 hours a week.

    As you can see, for a total cost of 3004.38 € for the employer, the worker gets only 1699.11€.
    The 3004 € should be the normal cost for a main land salary, but since we are working in French Guiana we (as employer) have a 602 € "rebate".

    This is BEFORE income tax.
    Further more the income tax is calculated on 1760.18 € (Net Imposable) because one of the social tax (CSG/RDS, 61.07 here) is not deductible !
    SO you pay an Income Tax on money you never got...
    And the VAT is 20.6 % on almost all you buy (except food at 7% VAT).
    On 1 liter unleaded fuel at 1.55 € the taxes are reaching 0.877 €. This drives the gallon up to 6.65 USD....

    Most of the French population is now fed up with taxes.
    Mainly because the redistribution to non-working population is no more under control. And the burden is on hard working peoples.

    We have no idea about what can happen. But the government has to consider the protests as what they actually are.

    Of course the current president hasn't the full responsibility of this situation which is coming from 40 years of coward governments, only seeking to their re-election.

    I hope these informations will help you to understand what's happening in France, over the official Media's bull****s.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by Rapelapente; 12-03-2018 at 04:16 PM.
    Gerard.
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    Default Re: Les Gilets Jaunes Triompheront

    Merci, Gerard.

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    Default Re: Les Gilets Jaunes Triompheront

    the B.S. of official media
    The protesters have been hostile to media elements, whom they perceive to be sympathetic to the government and its allies among the global elite. They're right to shun the "official" media.

    https://www.cjr.org/analysis/yellow-...ournalists.php

  16. #51
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    Default Re: Les Gilets Jaunes Triompheront

    Macron has been media elected. And doesn't represent the real country.
    As FILLON, has been crucified by the same.
    One need to understand who are the "Gilets Jaunes".
    Most of them, I'd say 95 %, are normal simple people, retired, lonely parents, young working women/men, independent workers running small businesses, unemployed etc... They can be seen in the protests all around the country. They are pacific and friendly, really.
    But the medias focalise on violences.
    The Interior Minister, trying to dis-consider the movement, told they are "Chemises brunes" (far right extremists),.
    Poor guy...
    Among them, of course, are some extremists, from left and right wing, with all the excess that means.
    The violences which happened in Paris are coming from them, and the average Gilet Jaunes are desperate about that.
    But they keep protesting, because they know who they are, and why they are protesting.

    This morning the government seems to be ready to go back about fuel tax augmentation.
    For sure it will be too late and not enough.
    Last edited by Rapelapente; 12-04-2018 at 06:43 AM.
    Gerard.
    SCHOONER FOR EVER, GOELETTE A PERPETE

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  17. #52
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    Default Re: Les Gilets Jaunes Triompheront

    What do you mean by "media elected"?

    If he doesn't represent the real country, how did he get so many votes?

    Who decides what is the "real" country, and what is the other part of the country that is "not real"?

  18. #53
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    Default Re: Les Gilets Jaunes Triompheront

    We have a two turns direct election for our président.
    During the first turn the "believed to win candidate", François Fillon (LR party), had to face a media campaign about his wife collaboration in his deputy activity.
    The fact is, even if it can be criticized, that it was perfectly legal, and many deputies of all parties did the same. Even the president of the assembly, Claude Bartolone (socialist), had his wife employed at the same time. But the media managed to concentrate their attacks against Fillon.
    The aim was to get him out for the second turn.
    They succeded.
    Some judges, obviously participating in the manipulation, intended a case against Fillon. With no result.

    So at the second turn we had the choice between Macron (from finance and medias party, La République En Marche, created some months before for the purpose) and Le Pen (extreme right party).
    The "normal" parties, Republicans (LR), and Socialist where disqualified.
    France can't , so far, elect a far right president, so we had no other choice to elect Macron, who hardly reached 20 % at the first turn.
    Here is how he got the votes.
    I personally refused to participate in this spoofing.
    Last edited by Rapelapente; 12-05-2018 at 06:12 AM.
    Gerard.
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    http://www.goelette-anthea.fr

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    Default Re: Les Gilets Jaunes Triompheront

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Ross View Post
    I think we’re talking past each other.
    I had hopes for Macron as a center/right leader, and bulwark against socialism and Le Pen nastiness. He’s been in trouble and is in deeper trouble. I don’t think he survives much longer. A pity, because it likely means a socialist France.
    .
    No the socialists can't be back. They are now non existent.
    We are about to face a real risk of extreme right arrival.
    That' s the problem.
    Gerard.
    SCHOONER FOR EVER, GOELETTE A PERPETE

    http://www.goelette-anthea.fr

  20. #55
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    Default Re: Les Gilets Jaunes Triompheront

    Quote Originally Posted by Rapelapente View Post
    No the socialists can't be back. They are now non existent.
    We are about to face a real risk of extreme right arrival.
    That' s the problem.
    That is very discouraging.

    Fillon was perhaps treated unfairly. But can the Republicans come back? The idea of France governed by the National Front is very very sad. Je me tiens avec Le France.

  21. #56
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    Default Re: Les Gilets Jaunes Triompheront

    Yes we can say that about Fillon ...
    The republicans, at least some of them , are collaborating with Macron.
    Most of the electors don't trust in politics anymore.
    We are in a dead end way...
    Sad it is.
    Protests will occur again in Paris on Saturday.
    Gerard.
    SCHOONER FOR EVER, GOELETTE A PERPETE

    http://www.goelette-anthea.fr

  22. #57
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    Default Re: Les Gilets Jaunes Triompheront

    I've been saying it as a joking half-truth, but its half true.

    Everybody wants their own Trump. They want somebody to cut through all the globalist garbage and the lying media and fight for them in their own lives. They want to be heard, on the ground, in their own cities, towns and villages.

    Obviously the protests come as.a surprise because the media has not examined the anger of the people nor have they demanded Macron address it. The media supports Macron.

    Consider that Macron has been cast as the savoir of Europe. Trump was just in France three weeks ago and it was the apocalypse. Elite media worldwide couldn't get enough of it. Now France is in flames for reasons having nothing to do with Trump, the reasons for the uprising having been completely un-audited by media until the protests broke out. Trump was the problem, Macron the little prince. Until he wasn't.

  23. #58
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    Default Re: Les Gilets Jaunes Triompheront

    Everybody wants their own little Trump? Everybody wants a lying vindictive egomaniac crook?
    Been at the magic mushrooms again, SB?
    Dream on.
    Last edited by birlinn; 12-05-2018 at 10:45 AM.

  24. #59
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    Default Re: Les Gilets Jaunes Triompheront

    You blokes just don't get it. France is in flames, thousands in the streets, Marianne defaced (literally) and with Macron's poll numbers in the gutter.

    But the real problem is some other government.

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    Default Re: Les Gilets Jaunes Triompheront

    Your real problem seems to be worrying about other governments, SB.
    Give Europe a rest.

  26. #61
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    Default Re: Les Gilets Jaunes Triompheront

    Quote Originally Posted by birlinn View Post
    Your real problem seems to be worrying about other governments, SB.
    Give Europe a rest.
    This means then, does it not, that all of the Europeans (and others) commenting on US politics here must be silent too, right? Including you?

    I thought not. I'll decline.

  27. #62
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    Default Re: Les Gilets Jaunes Triompheront

    So will I then.
    Someone has to counter your output of pro-Trump BS, SB.

  28. #63
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    Default Re: Les Gilets Jaunes Triompheront

    Quote Originally Posted by birlinn View Post
    So will I then.
    Someone has to counter your output of pro-Trump BS, SB.
    If Trump and Macron faced off on an election in France right now, my money would be on Trump.

  29. #64
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    Default Re: Les Gilets Jaunes Triompheront

    Dream on; it ain't going to happen.
    But if the thought makes you happy....

  30. #65
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    Default Re: Les Gilets Jaunes Triompheront

    Sofar I have not met anyone who wants a Trump, not in Scotland this spring, not in my own country, and not in France last year but maybe tomorrow I'll see a Maga cap in Paris. I will let you know then.

  31. #66
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    Default Re: Les Gilets Jaunes Triompheront

    birlinn, why aren't you with the French people on this? Polling earlier this week showed 85% of the public supports the Yellow Vests.

    Why are you with Macron?

  32. #67
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    Default Re: Les Gilets Jaunes Triompheront

    Quote Originally Posted by FF View Post
    Sofar I have not met anyone who wants a Trump, not in Scotland this spring, not in my own country, and not in France last year but maybe tomorrow I'll see a Maga cap in Paris. I will let you know then.
    Well, you've got a few yellow vests in your country, too. Belgium as well. I hear there may be a run on them in Britain soon, too.

  33. #68
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    Default Re: Les Gilets Jaunes Triompheront

    Come to think of it, there is almost no support for the Yellow Vest protesters on these pages. Why is that? Deep down, you lot don't support them. You support Macron.

    True?

  34. #69
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    Default Re: Les Gilets Jaunes Triompheront

    Who said I was with Macron? I don't have any axes to grind with French politics, apart from disliking Le Pen and co.
    BBC had 75% approval for yellow vests; a big majority with either figure.
    However I believe the French polls last showed around 29% of people approved of Macron.
    10% approved of Trump.

  35. #70
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    Default Re: Les Gilets Jaunes Triompheront

    A Trump? let's see.... No sorry.
    I'd buy a Tony Blair clone though...
    Gerard.
    SCHOONER FOR EVER, GOELETTE A PERPETE

    http://www.goelette-anthea.fr

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