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Thread: Update me on Brexit

  1. #386
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    Default Re: Update me on Brexit

    Quote Originally Posted by amish rob View Post
    That guy sounds crazy. Work together? Wot?! With them?!

    Peace,
    Robert

    P.S. Yep. Sarcasm.
    He`s actually talking sense here Rob , ( even though he`s a Tory ) , given the circumstances.

  2. #387
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    Default Re: Update me on Brexit

    Quote Originally Posted by beam reach View Post
    He`s actually talking sense here Rob , ( even though he`s a Tory ) , given the circumstances.
    Oh, I was making fun of my own dumb self.

    That’s the kind of crap I believe, and the way I live. It’s a bit of a joke to everyone, really.

    Peace,
    Emperor For Life

  3. #388
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    Default Re: Update me on Brexit

    All good Rob , I understood your comment.

    Seriously though , they need to come together on this , its an effing mess.

  4. #389
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    Default Re: Update me on Brexit

    A good description.

  5. #390
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    Default Re: Update me on Brexit

    Quote Originally Posted by beam reach View Post
    All good Rob , I understood your comment.

    Seriously though , they need to come together on this , its an effing mess.
    They? The list of people who need to grow up and figure out how to get along RIGHT NOW is about 7.5B names long...

    Peace,
    Stuck Here, On This Mudball, With All Y’all

  6. #391
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    Default Re: Update me on Brexit

    Quote Originally Posted by amish rob View Post
    They? The list of people who need to grow up and figure out how to get along RIGHT NOW is about 7.5B names long...

    Peace,
    Stuck Here, On This Mudball, With All Y’all
    No argument here Rob .....Stuck Here, On This Mudball, With you and everyone else.

  7. #392
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    Default Re: Update me on Brexit

    Quote Originally Posted by bob winter View Post
    Parliaments are elected to govern the country and that is what it should do. The only time public opinion needs to be of any importance is during a general election. In my recollection we had a national referendum in Canada concerning getting Quebec to sign on to the constitution, a creation of Trudeau the elder that we didn't really need, which turned out to be a waste of taxpayer dollars.
    Yep. Referendums are an abdication, not an alternative. Parliament loses authority when it refuses to act.

    If you want to gauge public opinion, have new elections and have the new Parliament take up the matter.
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  8. #393
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    Default Re: Update me on Brexit

    Quote Originally Posted by Osborne Russell View Post
    Yep. Referendums are an abdication, not an alternative. Parliament loses authority when it refuses to act.

    If you want to gauge public opinion, have new elections and have the new Parliament take up the matter.
    A properly run, honest referenda after full disclosure is OK. After all, that is what got us into the EU. A General Election will not do it if both party policies on the issue are the same, which they could be at the conclusion of a well negotiated deal.
    However the last three public votes were a disaster, we got BoatyMcBoatface, Jeremy Corbyn, and Brexit.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  9. #394
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    Default Re: Update me on Brexit

    Yet there was intervention in the matter of Boaty McBoatface to prevent it happening.That was by far the least of the disasters.

  10. #395
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    Default Re: Update me on Brexit

    Quote Originally Posted by John Meachen View Post
    Yet there was intervention in the matter of Boaty McBoatface to prevent it happening.That was by far the least of the disasters.
    My point as about the reliability of referenda in this digital age. Not a good idea without some refinement.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  11. #396
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    Default Re: Update me on Brexit

    I have no illusions about the nature of referenda.What does annoy me is that we are facing a situation where the outcome of a referendum places more power at the fingertips of UK politicians and they find the temptation too great to act in the best interest of the country.Spouting the line that another vote would be a betrayal of democracy conveniently ignores the fact that they have so little confidence in the current disposition of the electorate allowing them to grab more power that they are utterly opposed to allowing the notion.Worse is that the leader of the opposition is lacking any will to oppose.He has been given an open goal and hasn't even walked on to the pitch.I hope Santa brings a few of the political classes a backbone and then maybe we can emerge from the fog in the new year.

  12. #397
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    Default Re: Update me on Brexit

    Corbyn and his bunch are soft Leave because they know that their socialist vision is impossible with Britain tied directly to the common market and dealing under all of its rules and regulations.

    To say Corbyn lacks will is to misperceive the enormous pressure he's been placed under and to which he continues to quietly resist. In the end it is Corbyn that is the most wilfull of them all.

  13. #398
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    Default Re: Update me on Brexit

    Quote Originally Posted by Osborne Russell View Post
    Yep. Referendums are an abdication, not an alternative. Parliament loses authority when it refuses to act.

    If you want to gauge public opinion, have new elections and have the new Parliament take up the matter.
    Parliament is incapable of acting. No Brexit plan commands a majority in the governing party, which has already rejected Remain.

  14. #399
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    Default Re: Update me on Brexit

    Quote Originally Posted by Sky Blue View Post
    Corbyn and his bunch are soft Leave because they know that their socialist vision is impossible with Britain tied directly to the common market and dealing under all of its rules and regulations.

    To say Corbyn lacks will is to misperceive the enormous pressure he's been placed under and to which he continues to quietly resist. In the end it is Corbyn that is the most wilfull of them all.
    Yep Corbyn is wilfully and stubbornly stuck in the '70s, in spite of the Labour Parties settled policy of being Pro Europe for decades, he has always wanted the UK to leave.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  15. #400
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    Default Re: Update me on Brexit

    After leaving the EU, our Government has the option to invest in industry, previously denied by the EU's single market. This permits subsidised social ownership attractive to Labour and development of new industry attractive to Conservatives. Not forgetting national security if we choose to keep open our remaining steel production facility open. While Thatcherite policy would recoil/ recall where this led to in the past, you can argue that after the success and relentless state sponsored industrial investment in China, it's necessary to maintain a level playing field for competitiveness/ jobs. At the very least if Conservatives and Labour agree on one position, it's something.

  16. #401
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    Default Re: Update me on Brexit

    Quote Originally Posted by Edward Pearson View Post
    After leaving the EU, our Government has the option to invest in industry, previously denied by the EU's single market. This permits subsidised social ownership attractive to Labour and development of new industry attractive to Conservatives. Not forgetting national security if we choose to keep open our remaining steel production facility open. While Thatcherite policy would recoil/ recall where this led to in the past, you can argue that after the success and relentless state sponsored industrial investment in China, it's necessary to maintain a level playing field for competitiveness/ jobs. At the very least if Conservatives and Labour agree on one position, it's something.
    You seem to be under a number of misapprehensions.

    First, the EU Single Market says nothing about who owns what.

    Second, the EU State Aid Rules, which are not a part of the Single Market, do not restrict state ownership. Who do you think owns 20% of Deutsche Post, who in turn own DHL, or all of the Deutsches Bahn, or the SNCF? The obsession with privatisation is a British fetish.
    Last edited by Andrew Craig-Bennett; 12-24-2018 at 06:47 AM.
    IMAGINES VEL NON FUERINT

  17. #402
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    Default Re: Update me on Brexit

    Quote Originally Posted by Edward Pearson View Post
    After leaving the EU, our Government has the option to invest in industry, previously denied by the EU's single market. This permits subsidised social ownership attractive to Labour and development of new industry attractive to Conservatives. Not forgetting national security if we choose to keep open our remaining steel production facility open. While Thatcherite policy would recoil/ recall where this led to in the past, you can argue that after the success and relentless state sponsored industrial investment in China, it's necessary to maintain a level playing field for competitiveness/ jobs. At the very least if Conservatives and Labour agree on one position, it's something.
    Is this really true ?

    Without digging into this at length , can someone clarify ?

  18. #403
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    Default Re: Update me on Brexit

    Quote Originally Posted by Edward Pearson View Post
    After leaving the EU, our Government has the option to invest in industry, previously denied by the EU's single market. This permits subsidised social ownership attractive to Labour and development of new industry attractive to Conservatives. Not forgetting national security if we choose to keep open our remaining steel production facility open. While Thatcherite policy would recoil/ recall where this led to in the past, you can argue that after the success and relentless state sponsored industrial investment in China, it's necessary to maintain a level playing field for competitiveness/ jobs. At the very least if Conservatives and Labour agree on one position, it's something.
    Quote Originally Posted by beam reach View Post
    Is this really true ?

    Without digging into this at length , can someone clarify ?
    No it is total bollocks, as ACB pointed out the EU has no say in who owns what, their only interest is how the products are traded within the Common Market.
    Their aim is to facilitate trade between partners.

    Edward, as a Leaver, can you set out in terms that affect our lives and incomes how leaving will bring benefits that outweigh what we will be giving up? And I do not mean vague terms that add no monetary value like "Sovereignty''.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  19. #404
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    Default Re: Update me on Brexit

    Government 'state aid' to industries is against the principles of the 'single market'. It creates an unlevel playing field accross the EU, so it's against the rules.

    European Union Law: Article 107 (ex Article 87 TEC)

    Save as otherwise provided in the Treaties, any aid granted by a Member State or through State resources in any form whatsoever which distorts or threatens to distort competition by favouring certain undertakings or the production of certain goods shall, in so far as it affects trade between Member States, be incompatible with the internal market.







  20. #405
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    Default Re: Update me on Brexit

    Quote Originally Posted by Edward Pearson View Post
    Government 'state aid' to industries is against the principles of the 'single market'. It creates an unlevel playing field accross the EU, so it's against the rules.

    European Union Law: Article 107 (ex Article 87 TEC)

    Save as otherwise provided in the Treaties, any aid granted by a Member State or through State resources in any form whatsoever which distorts or threatens to distort competition by favouring certain undertakings or the production of certain goods shall, in so far as it affects trade between Member States, be incompatible with the internal market.






    Subsidies are not investments. If you think that the Tories ever did or ever will subsidise any industry, I'd like some of what you are having please.
    Last edited by Peerie Maa; 12-24-2018 at 10:31 AM.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  21. #406
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    Default Re: Update me on Brexit

    http://ec.europa.eu/competition/stat...rovisions.html

    Nothing to do with the Single Market; it’s in the 1957 founding Treaty.

    Regional aid is permitted, there is no problem with state ownership, but unfair subsidies are prohibited.
    Last edited by Andrew Craig-Bennett; 12-24-2018 at 10:25 AM.
    IMAGINES VEL NON FUERINT

  22. #407
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    Default Re: Update me on Brexit

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    Edward, as a Leaver, can you set out in terms that affect our lives and incomes how leaving will bring benefits that outweigh what we will be giving up? And I do not mean vague terms that add no monetary value like "Sovereignty''.
    Apart from this:
    Is this the real reason why Farage and Rees-Mogg want a speedy Brexit?

    PUBLISHED: 11:55 28 August 2018 | UPDATED: 12:24 28 August 2018
    Chevan Ilangaratne and Dami Olatuyi
    The EU’s forthcoming anti-tax avoidance rules could be a big boost for our public services but, as Chevan Ilangaratne and Dami Olatuyi explain, they will be binned if Farage and Rees-Mogg get their way.In all honesty, tax and law are an unattractive couple. Even specialists in the field will admit as much. That said – few doubt the necessity of tax. It pays for new hospitals and schools. It builds new houses. It keeps us safe on the streets. It helps us care for children and the elderly.


    Thus the value of taxpayers’ money cannot be understated – however discouraging it is to see chunks of your earnings go to tax collectors. The same applies to businesses – big or small – who pay corporation tax... well, that’s when they pay it.

    In recent years, the likes of Google, Amazon, Apple and Starbucks have come under the spotlight for large-scale tax avoidance. This means they’ve arranged their finances rather cleverly – albeit within the law – to dodge tax obligations they would otherwise have to fulfil. Less tax paid by these huge companies means less money to invest in our public services – we all lose out!

    Well the EU have had enough.

    As from the start of 2019, yes coincidentally just as the Brexit deadline looms, all EU member states will have to apply the Anti Tax Avoidance Directive (ATAD). It’s an EU law designed to tackle businesses shirking their tax-paying responsibilities.

    The likes of Nigel Farage, Jacob Rees-Mogg and a host of wealthy Brexit donors are unlikely to warm to ATAD. It fact, it might be one of reasons why some Brexiteers are hell-bent on pushing for the hardest Brexit possible.
    https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/top...f-eu-1-5669763

    Leaving? Cui bono?
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  23. #408
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    Default Re: Update me on Brexit

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    Apart from this: https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/top...f-eu-1-5669763

    Leaving? Cui bono?
    Rees-Mogg, obviously, but less obviously Sir James Ratcliffe of Monte Carlo and Switzerland, Sir James Dyson of Malaysia and Singapore, etc.
    IMAGINES VEL NON FUERINT

  24. #409
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    Default Re: Update me on Brexit

    IMAGINES VEL NON FUERINT

  25. #410
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    Default Re: Update me on Brexit

    A handy list of lies told about Brexit, with debunkings, all sourced:

    http://www.brexitlies.com/
    IMAGINES VEL NON FUERINT

  26. #411
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    Default Re: Update me on Brexit

    [QUOTE=Andrew Craig-Bennett;5765945]A handy list of lies told about Brexit, with debunkings, all sourced:



    HA ! GOOD ONE !

  27. #412
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    Default Re: Update me on Brexit

    Jacek Rostowski was Poland’s minister of finance and deputy prime minister from 2007 to 2013.


    https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/views/analysis/mays-deceitful-brexit-strategy-has-backfired-893976.html#.XCQh4PsRTgY.facebook
    IMAGINES VEL NON FUERINT

  28. #413
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    Default Re: Update me on Brexit

    "The Dawning Reality of Brexit"
    Despite the promises of economic success and freedom from Brussels, it looks like things on brexit day itself will be pretty grim. Food and medicine shortages are to be expected, and a State of Emergency may be declared, while all planes may be grounded. This is what we voted for."
    ........................







  29. #414
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    Default Re: Update me on Brexit

    Here is an article which sets out why the “Lexit” (“left wing Brexit”) concerns with the EU State Aid policies which Jeremy Corbyn seems to adhere to, and which George Pearson alludes to earlier in this thread, are misplaced.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...e_iOSApp_Other
    IMAGINES VEL NON FUERINT

  30. #415
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    Default Re: Update me on Brexit

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    Subsidies are not investments. If you think that the Tories ever did or ever will subsidise any industry, I'd like some of what you are having please.
    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Craig-Bennett View Post
    Here is an article which sets out why the “Lexit” (“left wing Brexit”) concerns with the EU State Aid policies which Jeremy Corbyn seems to adhere to, and which George Pearson alludes to earlier in this thread, are misplaced.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...e_iOSApp_Other
    Jeremy has not had a new idea since the 1970's when he was opposed to the EU. The Tory governments during my entire career have been Non-interventionist so I am not surprised that they ignored many of the benefits available under EU systems.

    For example I attended an EU Economic and Social Committee conference on training for Shipbuilding at Trieste that demonstrated this in spades:
    The UK gives much less state aid per head than most EU countries, under-using the scope that it has within the state aid rules to support (for example) industrial training and regional development.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  31. #416
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    Default Re: Update me on Brexit

    I spoke to an English ex-pat at a party Christmas eve. He says if Parliament does anything really dumb, the Queen will veto it.
    He's a Mexican. -- Donald Trump.
    America cannot survive another four years of Barack Obama. -- Governor Chris Christie (R) New Jersey
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  32. #417
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    Default Re: Update me on Brexit

    Quote Originally Posted by Osborne Russell View Post
    I spoke to an English ex-pat at a party Christmas eve. He says if Parliament does anything really dumb, the Queen will veto it.
    Probably wishful thinking. It would have to be a criminally insane decision for such an intervention. Unlikely to occur with our parliamentary process.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  33. #418
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    Default Re: Update me on Brexit

    Quote Originally Posted by lupussonic View Post
    "The Dawning Reality of Brexit"
    Despite the promises of economic success and freedom from Brussels, it looks like things on brexit day itself will be pretty grim. Food and medicine shortages are to be expected, and a State of Emergency may be declared, while all planes may be grounded. This is what we voted for."
    ........................
    Got a link to the source of that C&P ?
    Enjoy a good rum on the rocks at sunset.

  34. #419
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    Default Re: Update me on Brexit

    Quote Originally Posted by Rum_Pirate View Post
    Got a link to the source of that C&P ?
    All you have to do is plug the text into Google and press enter.

    https://brexitlies.com/

  35. #420
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnw View Post
    Parliament is incapable of acting. No Brexit plan commands a majority in the governing party, which has already rejected Remain.
    For now.

    The doctrine of parliamentary supremacy may be summarized in three points:

    Parliament can make laws concerning anything.
    No Parliament can bind a future parliament (that is, it cannot pass a law that cannot be changed or reversed by a future Parliament).
    A valid Act of Parliament cannot be questioned by the court. Parliament is the supreme lawmaker.

    -- wikipedia
    He's a Mexican. -- Donald Trump.
    America cannot survive another four years of Barack Obama. -- Governor Chris Christie (R) New Jersey
    It wasn't racism, it was an attack on Christianity. -- Fox News
    Crying white mothers are ratings gold. -- National Rifle Association

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