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Thread: Epoxyworks 'epic rant'!

  1. #1
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    Default Epoxyworks 'epic rant'!

    If I had a dollar for every girl who found me unattractive, eventually they would find me attractive.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Epoxyworks 'epic rant'!

    I resemble that remark.
    You wanna hear some wacky stuff..the so called "forums" on Facebook is where it's at.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Epoxyworks 'epic rant'!

    Hey! I like that article/rant.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Epoxyworks 'epic rant'!

    Ditto.
    Unlike many, those guys know their stuff.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Epoxyworks 'epic rant'!

    that was a great, funny rant. And I'm right there with Wizbang re Facebook

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Epoxyworks 'epic rant'!

    In my opinion Bruce Niederer, Senior Tech Advisor/Chemist at Gougeon Brothers, Inc., has made something of an ass of himself. His diatribe is not funny, it's vituperous. On top of that ridiculing your own customers is foolish.

    Various CPES mixtures really do make excellent primers, and I know this because I've been applying various finishes over various primers since before Bruce was off of the teat. S1, the thinned epoxy that I use as a primer, is the best ever. https://www.systemthree.com/products...g-epoxy-sealer.

    He postulates that while cured thinned epoxy is porous enough that it allows water to pass right through it it will not allow thinned and aggressively applied paint or varnish to penetrate far enough to provide a mechanical bond. That's just plain stupid.

    He states that adhesion implies chemical bonding only, and that is wrong wrong wrong. As stated, paint adheres to glass.

    What the hell?

    Well, I'll put forward another theory. Follow the money. Gougeon Bros. may be feeling threatened by the competition, thus the feeble attempt to put down CPES as a primer.

    With the fine lab full of the best equipment that he has the use of he could easily determine the viability of thinned epoxy as a primer. Just apply the primer over some cedar, let it cure for a few days, aggressively apply thinned black paint, let it cure for a few days then slice off a wafer and put it under one of those trillion dollar microscopes and see for yourself.

    Signed,

    Johnny.
    Last edited by Gib Etheridge; 12-02-2018 at 03:34 PM.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Epoxyworks 'epic rant'!

    I agree in the main with #6.

    They all make claims at being best for everything or everything important or everything you might want to do.

    When proprietaries argue, it's a bit like a fight between Liquid Wrench and WD-40.

    Edited to correct post reference. Thank you Gib.
    Last edited by Ian McColgin; 12-02-2018 at 03:55 PM.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Epoxyworks 'epic rant'!

    Other manufacturers can offer me standard epoxy that doesn't smell, has a better mix ratio for small quantities, doesn't crystalise (Sicomin) doesn't blush (MAS) and retains more flexibility. West now need to improve their standard product and reduce it's list of unpleasant qualities. They were pioneers but at present it's now closer to the bottom than the top of an ordered list of 'best epoxy' for amateur boatbuilding.
    Last edited by Edward Pearson; 12-02-2018 at 02:51 PM.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Epoxyworks 'epic rant'!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian McColgin View Post
    I agree in the main with #11.

    They all make claims at being best for everything or everything important or everything you might want to do.

    When proprietaries argue, it's a bit like a fight between Liquid Wrench and WD-40.
    #11 ?

    And yes, when a 50/50 mix of ATF and acetone is much more effective than either.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Epoxyworks 'epic rant'!

    Quote Originally Posted by Edward Pearson View Post
    Other manufacturers can offer me standard epoxy that doesn't smell, has a better mix ratio for small quantities, doesn't crystalise (Sicomin) doesn't blush (MAS) and retains more flexibility. West now need to improve their standard product and reduce it's list of unpleasant qualities. They were pioneers but at present it's now closer to the bottom than the top of an ordered list of 'best epoxy' for amateur boatbuilding.
    After posting #6 and going back out to the shop I had similar thoughts. It might be better business to provide a CPES that's superior to the others.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Epoxyworks 'epic rant'!

    I've now fixed my post. I'd meant Gib's #6. No idea what was going through my mind and my fingers but whatever was not the same thing.

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Epoxyworks 'epic rant'!

    Quote Originally Posted by Gib Etheridge View Post
    In my opinion Bruce Niederer, Senior Tech Advisor/Chemist at Gougeon Brothers, Inc., has made something of an ass of himself. His diatribe is not funny, it's vituperous. On top of that ridiculing your own customers is foolish.

    Various CPES mixtures really do make excellent primers, and I know this because I've been applying various finishes over various primers since before Bruce was off of the teat. S1, the thinned epoxy that I use as a primer, is the best ever. https://www.systemthree.com/products...g-epoxy-sealer.

    He postulates that while cured thinned epoxy is porous enough that it allows water to pass right through it it will not allow thinned and aggressively applied paint or varnish to penetrate far enough to provide a mechanical bond. That's just plain stupid.

    He states that adhesion implies chemical bonding only, and that is wrong wrong wrong. As stated, paint adheres to glass.

    What the hell?

    Well, I'll put forward another theory. Follow the money. Gougeon Bros. may be feeling threatened by the competition, thus the feeble attempt to put down CPES as a primer.

    With the fine lab full of the best equipment that he has the use of he could easily determine the viability of thinned epoxy as a primer. Just apply the primer over some cedar, let it cure for a few days, aggressively apply thinned black paint, let it cure for a few days then slice off a wafer and put it under one of those trillion dollar microscopes and see for yourself.

    Signed,

    Johnny.
    Actually Mr Niederer hit the nail on the head, forums are full of morons who have no real experience, well meaning morons mind you, and google experts putting their 10 cents worth in to try and be helpful. Then certain beliefs become memes such as the CPES argument in this crazy place. May as well try and convince anti-vaxxers and homeopaths that they are wrong, its a waste of time.

    Put any question up and you will get many conflicting replies, but one hopes that by reasonable discourse a reasonably good answer will result, but that does not always happen. The culture on the board is important, I think you can tell if once youve been around a while who is pulling things out of their asses and who is speaking from hard won experience. The problem is when a whole board drinks the kool aid, especially when there is a prolific poster.

    On another board I am on, one guy was into every thread with an answer, no matter the subject. He used sciency language and basically made himself out to be an expert on everything. When I started calling him out, as in verifying statements with evidence he got really toxic and eventually left in a big sulk.

    All I can say is check your own contribution- Why am I writing, do I have 1st hand experience or am I just wanting to show my dumbassery to the world?
    whatever rocks your boat

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