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Thread: A question for the Herreshoff scholars

  1. #1
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    Default A question for the Herreshoff scholars

    A little while ago I finished my half model of NGH's Reliance.My next project is a half model of his son's Whirlwind and I have just started on it.When finished it is my intention to paint it and thus far I haven't been able to find out what colour the bottom of the original was.The image searches I have done only turned up B&W photographs.I think I can be certain that the topside colour was white and I am hoping somebody here can put me on the path to uncovering the correct hue of bottom paint.Any pointers will be appreciated.

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    Default Re: A question for the Herreshoff scholars

    Unlike his father's designs, Whirlwind did not have a bronze bottom, being teak over bronze frames. I believe the bottom paint would have been red. I suppose the New York Yacht Club model room would have an accurately painted model, you could inquire with them.

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    Default Re: A question for the Herreshoff scholars

    Remember that WHIRLWIND had a varnished teak sheer strake!

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    Default Re: A question for the Herreshoff scholars

    I didn't know about the varnished sheer strake.I will see if I can find a list of the NYYC models,but I would be a little surprised if they had one of Whirlwind given the total lack of success of the boat.

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    Default Re: A question for the Herreshoff scholars

    Quote Originally Posted by John Meachen View Post
    I will see if I can find a list of the NYYC models,but I would be a little surprised if they had one of Whirlwind given the total lack of success of the boat.
    I believe models in the NYYC Model Room are only those of yachts that belonged to members and am not sure if WHIRLWIND would have 'qualified', but here's a link that may help. https://nyyc.org/history-heritage/-/...perator%3Dtrue

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    Default Re: A question for the Herreshoff scholars

    I think your best bet is to contact the Herreshoff Museum.

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    Default Re: A question for the Herreshoff scholars

    Try Evelyn at the Herreshoff Museum e.ansel@herreshoff.org


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    Default Re: A question for the Herreshoff scholars

    Quote Originally Posted by signalcharlie View Post
    Try Evelyn at the Herreshoff Museum e.ansel@h*****8off.org
    Many thanks for the information,I have asked the question of Evelyn.I just hope it stands out from what may be an avalanche of spam.Could I ask you to edit the post so that the spambots don't find the details please?
    Last edited by John Meachen; 11-29-2018 at 03:11 PM.

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    Default Re: A question for the Herreshoff scholars

    You'll need to edit or delete your post #8 also

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    Default Re: A question for the Herreshoff scholars

    Its under way.Sawed out the profile and plan view today.

    whirlwind beginnings.jpg

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    Default Re: A question for the Herreshoff scholars

    I, for one, am looking forward to the next postings on this interesting subject!
    Jay

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    Default Re: A question for the Herreshoff scholars

    Well today I removed a lot of the bulk and took some of the stern sections down to the shape the templates dictated.

    initial roughing out.jpg

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    Default Re: A question for the Herreshoff scholars

    Bumping my old thread because I still don't know what colour the bottom should be.I finished the carving of the hull last week and thanks to the information about the varnished sheerstrake I stained the lime to approximate teak,both for the sheerstrake and the deck.It went reasonably well and now I have added varnish.Sadly the half used tin of Epifanes varnish had jellified a bit and I added some thinners so it would brush out.It went on quite well but looking at it earlier I saw several runs which will need to be cleaned up when hard enough.

    The other thing I have achieved is engraving a brass plaque to attach to the back board that I have yet to make.

    engraving test_feb.jpg

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    Default Re: A question for the Herreshoff scholars

    The Hart Nautical Museum at MIT has a huge amount of info on Herreshoffs.

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    Default Re: A question for the Herreshoff scholars

    Paint it red. If anybody looking at your model knows the colour is incorrect it will give them great pleasure pointing it out to you! ;-)
    There is nothing quite as permanent as a good temporary repair.

  17. #17

    Default Re: A question for the Herreshoff scholars

    I do not know how Whirlwind was painted. But one way would be to do it like N. G. Herreshoff did in 1930 when he built a pond model of Whirlwind for Whirlwind's designer --- his son L. Francis. That model, built beautifully plank on frame by the old man (then 82 years old), was entirely white, except a thin light-green stripe at the waterline and, of course, the planked deck in natural wood.

    The model has survived and is now in the collection of Mystic Seaport Museum and currently on display in the Herreshoff Exhibition of the MIT Museum.

    Here are some excerpts from N.G. Herreshoff's diary at the time he built the model:
    "[1930-07-25] Fri 25: ... Began to set up frames & keel of model yacht on Whirlwind's lines. ...
    [1930-07-28] Mon 28: ... Began planking model yacht in afternoon. ...
    [1930-07-31] Thu 31: ... Working on planking model yacht . ...
    [1930-08-04] Mon 4: ... At work on model yacht .
    [1930-08-14] Thu 14: ... Finished planking model of Whirlwind --- 6-1/2 weeks from laying down [i.e. lofting].
    [1930-08-17] Sun 17: ... Finished lead pattern for model & took [it] off [the] board. W[ei]g[h]t of hull, planked & deck frame in [is] 2.8 lbs.
    [1930-08-25] Mon 25: ... Began laying deck of Whirlwind model. ...
    [1930-08-26] Tue 26: ... At work laying deck on Whirlwind model. ...
    [1930-08-29] Fri 29: ... I finished laying [the] deck of Whirlwind model. ...
    [1930-09-01] Mon 1: ... I work on model yacht and write letters.
    [1930-09-07] Sun 7: ... I have priming coat [of paint] on Whirlwind model. ...
    [1930-10-10] Fri 10: ... Whirlwind model [is] being painted. ...
    [1930-10-19] Sun 19: ... Began rigging up Whirlwind model after being painted." (Source: Herreshoff, Nathanael G. Diary, 1930. Manuscript (excerpts). Diary access courtesy of Halsey C. Herreshoff.)

    And here is what he wrote to his son about it: "N. G. Herreshoff Bristol, R. I. Aug. 17, 1930 {1930/08/17} Dear Francis - ... I hope you will make us a visit while they are here, so to see them. As another inducement I have the model Whirlwind all planked and nearly ready to lay deck, and I think looks very well. With the planking completed and deck beams all in it weighs 2.8 lbs. = 11 3/4% of displacement. I think 1.2 (lbs) will complete hull, which will be 15 1/2% of displ if rig is 1 lb. There will be about 80 1/2% for ballast, or 21 lb. to 26 lbs. total displ. ..." (Source: Mystic Seaport Museum, L. Francis Herreshoff Collection, Box 17, Folder 6: Letter from N. G. Herreshoff to L. F. Herreshoff.)

    ES193004_Whirlwind_Model_Yacht_Mystic_a.jpg

    ES193004_Whirlwind_Model_Yacht_Mystic_b.jpg

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    Default Re: A question for the Herreshoff scholars

    That looks like the model that L.Francis had on display in the great hall of the Herreshoff Castle at Crocker Park in Marblehead.

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    Default Re: A question for the Herreshoff scholars

    Thanks for the additional photographs and following the suggestion-I have asked the Hart museum the question too.

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    Default Re: A question for the Herreshoff scholars

    If people get a chance to see the Herreshoff Exhibition at the MIT Museum, do it. It's truly excellent!

    Quote Originally Posted by HCR View Post
    ... N. G. Herreshoff... built a pond model of Whirlwind for Whirlwind's designer --- his son L. Francis.

    The model has survived and is now in the collection of Mystic Seaport Museum and currently on display in the Herreshoff Exhibition of the MIT Museum.



    ES193004_Whirlwind_Model_Yacht_Mystic_a.jpg

    ES193004_Whirlwind_Model_Yacht_Mystic_b.jpg

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    Default Re: A question for the Herreshoff scholars

    an interesting question.subscribed

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    Default Re: A question for the Herreshoff scholars

    Roger Taylor is the best authority on L Francis Herreshoff that i know of. Although his book on L Francis is not with me at this time, I believe some color plates are in it that would answer the question.
    Jay

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    Default Re: A question for the Herreshoff scholars

    The pond yacht is a bit puzzling in one sense.I can't recall seeing any mention of white bottom paint prior to WW2-was there such a thing? I'm hoping to be able to sand out the runs in the deck varnish now we have had a couple of warm days.

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    Default Re: A question for the Herreshoff scholars

    In the absence of any positive information I decided to go with a coppery/red paint.I selected a Tamiya model paint of about the right shade and after a bit of fiddling with my very low quality airbrush,I laid on a coat.As it dried,it became obvious that the paint was a gloss finish.After a bit of research I found that the same colour (X34 for those interested) can be had in both gloss and matt.I might have bought from the wrong rack or the lack of a description on the jar might have led to it being wrongly located by the shop staff.Not a huge problem in the end as I decided to give it a good scuffing with a piece of Scotchbrite as an interpretation of what a racing crew might have done to bottom paint on a serious racing boat .

    almost finished.jpg

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    Default Re: A question for the Herreshoff scholars

    Today was a bank holiday and in true form the weather was cold,wet and a bit breezy.So I had no distractions and mounted the half model on the backboard.I'm fairly happy with the result and after a couple of Herreshoff half models,it may be time to tackle a Bolger for a bit of a contrast.

    whirlwind.jpg

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    Default Re: A question for the Herreshoff scholars

    Quote Originally Posted by John Meachen View Post
    Today was a bank holiday and in true form the weather was cold,wet and a bit breezy.So I had no distractions and mounted the half model on the backboard.I'm fairly happy with the result and after a couple of Herreshoff half models,it may be time to tackle a Bolger for a bit of a contrast.

    whirlwind.jpg
    His Tancook whaler is nice.

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    Default Re: A question for the Herreshoff scholars

    Quote Originally Posted by johnw View Post
    I think your best bet is to contact the Herreshoff Museum.
    I think MIT has a lot of the old Herreshoff Documents and plans

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