Henrietta: The Columbia River Gillnetter turned Downeast Lobster Boat

[cstevens]

Very nice! Yes, I think that was the realization I came to as well with Petrel. All romantic ideas of small boat cruising aside, not everyone wants to bunk down in the cockpit under the stars or suffer any of the various indignities that come along with. But a day cruise up to an island getaway is another thing entirely.

[lukes]

To answer the question I know you've all been asking: Square. I figure I can drill round holes later for holdfasts or new dog locations, but adding square ones later doesn't sound fun. I'm nearly done with bench now.
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Now on to actual boat repair. Earlier this summer I noticed the end of my aft coaming was pretty rotted. I went down to pull if off yesterday, and found that there's a bit more rot than anticipated. My aft deck slopes foward into this coaming, and is crowned so water runs along it to the sides. The deck is plywood over the old deck, covered in dynel (i'm 99% sure there is dynel and epoxy.) It seems water got in at the coaming joint on the corner, rotted the end of the coaming, and also some of the plywood and decking in that area. The beam seems mostly ok, but just above it, I can dig in a few inches into what should be wood. I also ripped the front of the beam off with the coaming because it was glued on with sikaflex or similar...

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I think my plan is:

1. Exploratory surgery. I think I'll cut a big square patch out of the deck until I've got good clean wood everywhere. Then I'll epoxy in new wood, fair it to the existing deck. Questions: Is there any reason to go buy plywood for this? I was planning on AYC or Sapele, as I have a bit on hand. Do I need to put glass on this repair, or will just thickened epoxy be ok?

2. Cut the side coamings back a few feet and scarf in new ends. They're a bit soft and split, this seems like the right time to replace.

3. If the deck beam is not rotten, I need to cut back the part I ripped out, and glue a piece of wood there so everything is flush again.

4. Put new aft coaming in. I think I'll have it extend across the side coamings so water from the aft deck doesn't have to cross a joint to run off. Maybe add an epoxy fillet here? Or a trim piece?

I'd prefer not to replace the entire deck beam if I can help it, but I also want to be sure ALL of the rot is out.

What should I bed the new coaming in? Make it permanent with thickened epoxy? Use sika flex again, and ensure it will rip out again next time? Buylt tape? Dolphinite?

I'm leaning epoxy, but I could be swayed. Totally encapsulating the ends of the deck, then epoxying the coaming on, and adding a fillet seems bulletproof to me. But will I, or the next owner, regret it?

[lukes]

I managed some rot removal last night:

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I think I have all of the deck rot out. The beam just butts into that stringer, and is held by those knees, which really hold water and are getting soft. I think I want to take the whole beam and both knees out, notch the stringer (or add a block on the lower half) for the new beam to sit on. I'll replace the knees with locust ones, and try to find a way to let water drain off the top of them.

For the deck I cut out, I have enough locust to fill the hole with a single piece of wood. My other option is to buy a sheet of 3/4 marine ply and stack it up. I'm still trying to decide on that one.

Once it's done, I'm going to run some glass and a fillet up the coaming an inch or so. This is how the sides were done, and they were in much better shape than the back...

I'm also going to mix up some borate borax boric acid and treat everything nearby. I'm still undecided on if I'm going to mix w water or glycol. Opinions welcome.

[Jay Greer]

Gill Netters are great boats and yours is a fine one for sure Lukes! That stove installation is a work of both logic and art! I like it a lot!

I had a Columbia River Gillnetter once that was built back in the early days. We had a 1906 Hicks six HP single cylinder engine in her. with a make and break ignition. The flywheel weighed close to a hundred pounds and starting that engine was a "Shake Hands With Johnathan Affair". We called that engine the "Garbanstangle". You could dance on the deck to that engine's constant slow beat.The boat was the "Sherry Lee" and has been fully re-built with a new deck and frames. The boat had no caulking and also had cement in her bilges. We sailed her from Monterey Bay CA down to Newport Beach back in 1954. Sure wish I had her back!

My pal Jerry Hampton has this one that has been converted for Alaskan crab and salmon Fishing and also has a sailing rig and has an added ballast keel to boot! Teak decks to boot! The boat has a new Yanmar for power and lives in Port Ludlow WA. Jerry had her up for sale, because of his health concerns, and, even though the boat is pristine he had no takers! The boat has nearly a hundred thousand poured into it and nobody would give him even ten! What an insult to pristine craftsmanship! I think Jerry will have a Viking funeral in her instead.

Keep this thread a going please!
Jay
This is my friend Jerry Hampton

[cstevens]

Bench looks great Luke. Deck repairs seem to be coming along great as well. As for opinions on boric acid and glycol.... whoooo boy. Careful what you ask for around here! I'll tell you that there is a pretty sharp divide on that subject. Most of the professionals are skeptical to downright contemptuous depending on temperment. Personally I figure it can't hurt and might help. Certainly it's more likely to be effective than red lead, salt or any of the other traditional preservatives.

Here's one article on the topic that might be worth reading:

https://acbs-bslol.com/restoration/s...nt/d97woodrot/

[lukes]

Thanks for the reply Jay. I'm interested in hearing more about how these boats were built and repaired with no caulking. I've got kind of a weird plank under the waterline that I'm considering replacing, and the lack of caulking anywhere else has me thinking twice about how to do it.

On your old boat, how would you have replaced a plank below the waterline?

As far as money goes, I've got receipts well into the six figures for Henrietta, all from previous owners, and all in the last 15 years. I paid no where near what had been put in her. I also have no expectation I'd ever recover what little money I'm putting in her. Seems to just be the way of it with these boats. Great for a buyer, no good for a seller.

[lukes]

Chris,

I dug through the archive, and nearly resurrected a thread on the medicinal benefits of glycol, but thought better of it.

The original deck material was port orford cedar, and I've cut a pretty healthy boundary around the rot, but I really don't want to be working on this area again. Fresh air is best, and all that, but the top is epoxyied, and I'm about cover the other side with coaming and beam again. Any moisture that's in there, along with the spores, stand a decent chance of rotting more wood, no?

If one were to use glycol, would you use ethylene or propylene glycol, and why?

[cstevens]

Chris,

I dug through the archive, and nearly resurrected a thread on the medicinal benefits of glycol, but thought better of it.

The original deck material was port orford cedar, and I've cut a pretty healthy boundary around the rot, but I really don't want to be working on this area again. Fresh air is best, and all that, but the top is epoxyied, and I'm about cover the other side with coaming and beam again. Any moisture that's in there, along with the spores, stand a decent chance of rotting more wood, no?

If one were to use glycol, would you use ethylene or propylene glycol, and why?

Ha! Yeah, that medicinal use thread is probably left dormant. Definitely Ethlyene as it's the one that is supposed to kill rot spores. Propylene is the one that is used as a food additive.

[Jay Greer]

One has to be careful when mixing up borax as a rot deterrent. Too much and you can cook the planking and fasteners. "Timbor" has a ratio that is good to stick with.
Tight seam planking is they way most of the early gill netters were built. There is a recent thread on caulking and Butts that has some comments on tight seam work. What is weird with that plank?
Jay

[lukes]

a previous 'shipwright' scarfed very short sections of a couple planks using sikaflex and a steep angle. Not on a butt or frame either... Above the waterline, I choose to ignore these, but I have some very slow leaks below that include one of these planks. Further forward, near where the skeg ends, there's a bit of a joggle in the plank. ______|-------- as in, there is a 90 cut in the edge of the plan where a think adjacent one begins. Make sense?

That location is a bit soft, and I suspect is the real place where it's leaking. I lightly reefed and gently caulked this seam two years ago, and i filled a screw or nail hole with no nail last year, but I still get water in this area. I think I'd feel better taking about 6 or 8 feet , cutting that 'joggle' out entirely, and putting new wood in. Here are a couple pictures from the spring. The butt joint here is actually cut at about 45 degrees and glued with 5200 I'm guessing? I reefed that too, hammered as much cotton as I dared (not much) and used boatlife on top.

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[Jay Greer]

So far as that plank butt is concerned, if you can get a butt block or other backer in there, snugging it up may help. I know that it can be maddening but it is better to try the easiest first and get serious later. Other wise you will spend too much time on the hard and other parts will start coming loose. So far as that nasty spot, outlined in chalk, since the wood is wet, You might want to try the old Portland Cement and bottom paint mix putty trick to smooth it over. That is, if nothing is, actually, moving or leaking inside. If it works, you are home free and cheap! Next time you hual if it is not working, you can chip it out and inlay a bit of fresh wood as a last resort other than messing with the keel, skeg and deadwood and spending to much time hauled out. Tough call! Nice thing about a wooden boat is that you can always take a damaged section apart and renew it! Sorry about that deck problem hope all is well!
Jay

[navydog]

Luke,
If you decide to go to a cement product I suggest using hydraulic cement just mixed with water. It's water proof and designed for plugging up holes and making them water tight. Hydraulic cement sets up in 5 minutes as well.

[Jay Greer]

We have never thought of using hydraulic cement, so I can't comment on that. In in the past, because we always have used Portland Cement powder mixed with sluffing bottom paint that is what works for us. In fact, that is what the Portuguese fishermen around our area always used and they taught us about using it. The bottom paint is a good fluid for the cement and the mixture is also good for filling bad plug holes as well. In over sixty years I have never seen it fail to fill up a nasty place underwater and hold till Charron Arrives with his boat from across the river Styx to have it's keel fixed as well. Fire and brimstone are a bit corrosive you know!
Jay

[navydog]

I suppose hydraulic cement could be mixed with bottom paint as well. But I have never tried it so I can't say what it will do.

[Pelirrojo]

I've done both, they both work.

[lukes]

I've used hydraulic cement with good results. I've never used Portland cement, but i bet it would work well too. Might have a long working life. The hydraulic stuff goes off quickly.

I managed some more removal of wood from the boat. I think I've got it all out now, and can start working to put wood back in.

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77 year old nail.


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I used strips of the same old fir 2x4's that came out of my 1927 house for the laminated beam.

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The locust that milled form firewood logs keeps coming in handy

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My first laminated beam!

Now I need to cut a 5 degree bevel along the top. I'm hoping my cheap Taiwanese band saw is up to the task....

[Jay Greer]

AArragh! that is the result of a leaky deck and a not so well ventilated lazzerett! Lucky you are setting it right! That is too nice a boat not to save it! You might consider installing a vent like this that can just be seen in on the lower right of the photo. Standing Cowel vents will get the most air moving through a boat. If it is swung from a mooring, the forward vent should face forward in order to take in the prevailing wind. A wooden boat should have air flow from forward to aft. After mounted cowl vents should face aft in order to exhaust the flow of air though the hull. If a boat is in a slip, air flow can be aided by an internal fan blowing the air aft.
Jay

Here the wind is coming abeam and the vents aft are facing away from it.

[lukes]

All that tumble home has the aft deck pushing water against that rear coaming. Once a crack developed, water got in, and that knee is just below where it was coming in, holding all the water in place. It doesn't help that I dock her bow in, leaving the stern under cover, but still getting plenty of wind blown rain.

I had thought the open area above the bench and below that rotted beam would be enough ventilation, but I see I'm wrong. I might consider backing into my slip for the winter at least to keep some of the water off of this area.

I also plan to run glass and epoxy up the coaming an inch or two, which will really help a lot I think. I haven't done a ton of work with fiberglass. My plan was to sand the mating areas, and wet out some 6 oz cloth, maybe 4 inches wide, (2 on the flat, and 2 up the coaming). If it's looking rough when I'm done, I might fair it a bit with some thickened epoxy and be done with it. Same plan for that area of deck that I cut out. Just feather some glass into the existing dynel, and hope it fairs ok. Advice always welcome.

Regarding ethylene glycol, that stuff is hard to find locally in anything less than a 55 gal barrel. I"m half inclined to use the cheapest anti-freeze at the auto parts store. Can anyone think of a reason not to mix up the prestone with the borax and the roach killer?

[cstevens]

No reason I can think of Luke. Some might point to the various additives in antifreeze but given how much oil ends up in the bilge of a typical workboat I seriously doubt it makes any difference at all. I’ve used it in Petrel and have not seen any issues. Just keep in mind how toxic the stuff is, but I’m sure you know.

[lukes]

I've been chipping away at the job. A bit of poison soaked in, followed by CPES. Got the new beam, knee, and a small, um, shelf on the clamp I'll call it? Given the shape of things, I added a locust 1x1 along the bottom of the clamp for the beam and the knee to sit on. As found, both just butted into the clamp with nothing beneath, and no fancy joinery. There is some evidence there may have been something below the ends of the beam originally, but whatever that was is long gone. Lacking a better term (that I assume exists because it's a boat), I'm going with Shelf on the Clamp.

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Next up, fit the coamings and then run some glass between coaming and decks. Should I form a fillet first, let that cure, and then glass it? Or am I ok to just make a sharp 90 degree with a strip of 3.8 oz glass?

[lukes]

Oh, and I found some Circa 2004 pictures of Henrietta in white on white. This would have been very shortly after her major refit at Philbrooks in BC. She spent a number of years in Friday Harbor working as a whale watching boat. I believe the main idea was to ferry passengers and kayaks off the beaten path. She also only ran bio diesel back then. I've seen no indication that did any damage or clogging or..

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[lukes]

Getting closer.

I cut the aft coaming a bit short. Originally the side coamings ran the full length and covered the aft coaming's end grain. I had planned to switch it up and run the aft coaming full length, and have the sides butt into it. But, now that I"m a bit short on the aft piece, I'm considering remaking the sides longer and going with the original arrangement. Or, I may call it good, fill the gap with epoxy and get back to using my boat. We'll see.

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[Jay Greer]

Lookin good Lukes! I'll bet you are happy to get all of that work done! On the surface no one will know how much labor has gone into that one!
Jay

[lukes]

It really is amazing how quickly a tiny bit of soft wood can turn into days and days of labor. I certainly do feel a lot better having cut the cancer out.

Speaking of scope creep, I"m looking at that picture thinking how nice she'd look with bright sapele coamings all around... It wouldn't be THAT much more work at this point, and it could solve my problem at the corners.. I'm not sure how I would handle the transition from painted decks to bright coaming. Probably paint the outside and the tops, and varnish the inside face?

Or would that look all too yachty for a rough and tumble painted work boat? I'll contemplate when I get back to the boat to fair that patch on the deck...

[cstevens]

Looks great Luke. My two cents on the coaming: Trim the aft section to run inside the sides as it was before. Make up new side extensions that will cover the end grain and extend a few inches further aft with a nice curve. Like this...



or this...



Paint them to match and find another place for brightwork. Maybe a varnished cap on the coaming?

[lukes]

I'm still chipping away at the coaming. I ended up adding a locust post in the corner to cover all the other end grain. I'll dowel the end of the side coaming to that post and call it all good.

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I've been trying to guess what type of wood the old rotted aft coaming was. It looks to have very open grain, and only about 3 rings per inch. To my hand it feels about as heavy as the sapele I replaced it with, and it's nearly as hard. I believe it was installed by philbrooks yard in BC in about 2004 or so, and in 15 years it rotted. It does not have a scent to it.

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[lukes]

My guess is Pt. Orford Cedar. The only thing that has be doubting that is the lack of smell and the weight.

[lukes]

A quick update for the new year:

Coaming is basically done. Made me sad to prime the pretty wood, but keeping it bright would have been a way too much of a chore for an old work boat. Now I need to properly prep the boat and get a fresh coat of paint on the decks. In the mean time, there are many squid in the sound right now, and winter blackmouth opened yesterday, so hopefully I'll get to spend a bit more time on the water this month, paint or no paint.

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In other news, I've been emailing former owners of Henrietta in an effort to learn more about her past. Things I've learned,

4 owners ago, she lived at the UW Marine Lab in Friday Harbor. She may have been owned by the university, or by the gentleman who lived on her, and worked there. All I know about him is that he spoke with accent, either French or British. I'm not sure how you confuse the two, but I suppose it has been about 20 years since then. Interestingly, the house was already forward back then, so the conversion happened earlier than I thought.

She was also named Henrietta back then, so the name is older than I thought as well. 3 owners ago was the gentleman running kayaking tours out of Friday harbor who did the big refit at Philbrooks. According to him, the new cabin top was designed and drawn by none other that William Garden. I'm hopeful he can find the original drawings for this!

Finally, there was a log book and brass builders plate that have been lost. This is where the year 1942, make: Baker, Place Astoria OR came from I think. One last interesting bit is that the log book indicated that she was used by the fisheries department as an enforcement boat of some kind, and was made like a gillnetter to blend in on the Columbia.

And that's where the trail goes cold. Not much info on her first 60 years.

[cstevens]

Looks good to me Luke, paint or no paint. Nice! I've been trying to find more history on Petrel as well but I can't dig up anything before the early 1980s.

[lukes]

All this work on the stern over the winter had me backing the boat into her slip, which after some trial an error, turns out to be surprisingly easy. In some ways this boat backs down better than she goes forward. This leaves the bow facing the weather, which in turn has shown me some leaks in the forward decks that I didn't know about before. The stern decks are still just primed, so I figure I'll sand down the forward decks as well, look for the leaks, patch with epoxy and glass. (I think I know where the leak is). And while I"m doing that, I may as well work on the few bits of bright work on the deck. And while I'm at it, I have always wanted a forward hatch for light, air, and to get at the anchor from a safe location. Well inspired by Jim Ledger, I'll attempt a much simpler design and hope the results are a tenth as good as his...


Here's where it goes:
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Rough CAD
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That old locust firewood still coming in handy:
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Milling some boards
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The start of some joinery. A bit in over my head here, but so far so good...
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Next post will have the questions for the group.

[cstevens]

Looks great Luke! Looking forward to seeing it come together.

[lukes]

First things first. I roughed the dovetails in, and noticed some checking, so I gave it all a good soak in CPES, hoping that will stabilize anything that might move. you can see some on the bottom right of the pic above. Any other ideas on that? I'm going to cut the joints a little looser than I'd like for fear of breaking out a corner.

I'm going to fit the joints while everything is still square, and cut the relief on the bottoms. Then I'll put some curve to it, side to side. It's a hair over 2" thick now, and I'm planning to drop it about 0.5" on each side. It's just over 2ft, wide total for reference.

The rabbet shown below for the glass is 0.375 deep by 0.5" wide for no other reason that that looked about right. How do I get the glass to bend, and stay put without putting a clamp strip on? My current thinking is 0.375" thick Plexiglas, and I'll either heat in place with a heat gun, or make a mold and heat it over the mold. I'm hoping that I can get it to set close enough to the right shape that I can simply glue it in with 5200 or similar and it will stay put.

Plan B is a few countersunk screws through the plex, but I'd prefer to avoid this.

What I don't want is to put a clamping strip around the window which will just become a dam holding water.

Does anyone have experience setting a gentle bend into plexiglass? Other ideas?

Lastly, I'm going to put a drip edge under the sides, but do I need one under the front and rear edges as well?

I'm sure I'll run into more issues as time goes on.

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[Breakaway]

If you make that big cutout for the hatch in the cabin trunk top, is any other added reinforcement necessary? This is not a leading question, I am just asking if the diminished rigidity of the cabin top will cause any structural issues?

Kevin

[lukes]

There are currently 3 beams there, and the hatch will cut the middle one right in half. I plan to run carlins on either side of the opening, and butt that beam into them. It's all built pretty stout. 2.125 x 1.675 beams, knees not shown. I think the top is 3/4 marine ply covered in glass. I think I should be ok as drawn, but if I needed more, I could add a beam aft. I don't think I'll need it though.

The bits shown in green will extend above the deck level and be glassed into it. The hatch will fit over it, with a gutter around it. Cutaway view at the bottom.


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[Breakaway]

Thanks for your reply, Lukes.

Keep on!

Kevin


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