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Thread: Another multiple shooting today

  1. #71
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    Default Re: Another multiple shooting today

    Quote Originally Posted by S.V. Airlie View Post
    The problem is, in part, the NRA makes it perfectly clear that people want to take their guns. When asked, that's the firs thing many say. So the fear factor is right up there. PS, they think ALL guns, not certain types.
    This is true and my thought process exactly.

  2. #72
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    Default Re: Another multiple shooting today

    Quote Originally Posted by sleek View Post
    Couple of things about your points.

    I disagree about the duty of legislators enacting laws limiting anything fire arm related. I know, i know... i will crucify myself thanks. No law should be made to limit arms. Not until that amendment is amendmended.

    You dont want the average person to own an automatic with drum etc... Why? The average person isnt the problem. The average person isnt a murderer. You are worried about the person who isnt normal. Find that guy and deal with him.

    Otherwise you will multiply body counts etc....
    So? Is one life more important than ten? You are still not fixing the problem. The KILLER is the problem. Prevent him from becoming one and you save ALL the lives.

    How much firepower should the average person be allowed to have? All he can afford. Becajse average people arent the problem.

    I feel like everytime this is addressed it seems like an argument is being made on how big a bailing bucket is needed to keep a boat afloat rather than fixing the hole letting water in. Does water sink a boat or did the hole do it?
    Go back and review 59-61.

    Nobody there is blaming hardware.

    Peace,
    Robert

  3. #73
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    Default Re: Another multiple shooting today

    I had a pt in today, who happened to mention he was going deer hunting - with his AR-15 'which isn't an assault rifle - there is no such thing'. We all know the NRA talking points; this guy hit most of them, and was unmoved by facts or logic. Bizarre, some folks' priorities.
    There's a lot of things they didn't tell me when I signed on with this outfit....

  4. #74
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    Default Re: Another multiple shooting today

    Quote Originally Posted by sleek View Post
    This is true and my thought process exactly.
    Then you know the NRA won't do what they should do or say AND you can't do anything to change its mind?

  5. #75
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    Default Re: Another multiple shooting today

    Quote Originally Posted by sleek View Post
    How much firepower should the average person be allowed to have? All he can afford. Becajse average people arent the problem.
    Does that mean that you believe that there should be no limits on the size, kind and nature of the weapons private citizens should able to own? Should I be allowed to own artillery, surface to air rockets, grenades, a fully equipped fighter-bomber if I can afford them?
    I rather be an American than a Republican.

  6. #76
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    Default Re: Another multiple shooting today

    Quote Originally Posted by sleek View Post
    Decide if I justly need one.
    Que?
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  7. #77
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    Default Re: Another multiple shooting today

    Quote Originally Posted by BrianY View Post
    Does that mean that you believe that there should be no limits on the size, kind and nature of the weapons private citizens should able to own? Should I be allowed to own artillery, surface to air rockets, grenades, a fully equipped fighter-bomber if I can afford them?
    Im split. The constitution was written in a time before these weapons were thought of. But, private citizens could own cannons and war ships back then so....

    Honestly id be happy to see it written in where things like surface rockets grenades, and fighter bombers were written out of private ownership. But because its not, strictly speaking... its not unconstitutional to own them.

  8. #78
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    Default Re: Another multiple shooting today

    I guess I'm not the coward I once worried I might be. I have lived 63 years and never fired a gun. I go where I please and I have never carried a gun aywhere. I've never felt I needed it or would benefit from it. I've lived in several major cities with high crime rates, but I never felt a need or a desire to carry a gun.

    And my pants stayed dry the entire time. I never wet them once. I don't understand those who need a gun everywhere they go.

  9. #79
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    Default Re: Another multiple shooting today

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    Que?
    My point was, can you decide if i am in need of one or not, and if so, decide here if I do or not.

  10. #80
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    Default Re: Another multiple shooting today

    You tell us why you need a gun, sleek

  11. #81
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    Default Re: Another multiple shooting today

    Quote Originally Posted by sleek View Post
    My point was, can you decide if i am in need of one or not, and if so, decide here if I do or not.
    Well I did list a set of criteria that would justify a need to keep a gun, or did you not read that far?
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  12. #82
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    Default Re: Another multiple shooting today

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    Well I did list a set of criteria that would justify a need to keep a gun, or did you not read that far?
    You left out self defense. I need one for that. To guard against people who illegallycary ine to commit crimes. It helps me sleep at night.

  13. #83
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    Default Re: Another multiple shooting today

    Quote Originally Posted by birlinn View Post
    You tell us why you need a gun, sleek
    Nobody NEEDS anything. Certain criteria are needed for desired situations to exist, but beyond that, nobody needs anything and nobody is needed.

  14. #84
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    Default Re: Another multiple shooting today

    Quote Originally Posted by sleek View Post
    You left out self defense. I need one for that. To guard against people who illegallycary ine to commit crimes. It helps me sleep at night.
    Because strong locks, a dog, and lights on motion detectors aren't enough?

  15. #85
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    Default Re: Another multiple shooting today

    Quote Originally Posted by CWSmith View Post
    Because strong locks, a dog, and lights on motion detectors aren't enough?
    Yup, you nailed it.

  16. #86
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    Default Re: Another multiple shooting today

    Quote Originally Posted by sleek View Post
    You left out self defense. I need one for that. To guard against people who illegallycary ine to commit crimes. It helps me sleep at night.
    Firearms Act 1937

    The same year, the Home Secretary ruled that self-defence was no longer a suitable reason for applying for a firearm certificate and directed police to refuse such applications on the grounds that "firearms cannot be regarded as a suitable means of protection and may be a source of danger".[83]
    There is also a set of statistics derived in the US that indicates keeping a gun in a home makes the home less not more safe.
    Statistics on Guns in the Home & Safe Storage

    Having a gun in the home is associated with an increased risk of firearm homicide and firearm suicide, regardless of storage practice, type of gun, or number of guns in the home.1 Guns kept in the home are more likely to be involved in a fatal or nonfatal unintentional shooting, criminal assault or suicide attempt than to be used to injure or kill in self-defense.2 Rather than conferring protection, guns in the home are associated with an increased risk of homicide by a family member or intimate acquaintance.3
    Research published in the New England Journal of Medicine found that living in a home where there are guns increased risk of homicide by 40 to 170% and the risk of suicide by 90 to 460%.4
    The risk of dying from an unintentional gunshot injury is 3.7 times higher for adults living in homes with guns, with handguns in the home posing a particular threat.5
    https://lawcenter.giffords.org/guns-...ge-statistics/ Rev 5 is:
    Douglas J. Wiebe, Firearms in U.S. Homes as a Risk Factor for Unintentional Gunshot Fatality, 35 Accident Analysis & Prevention 711, 713-14 (2003). ⤴︎
    So the bottom line is, no you are safer without.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  17. #87
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    Default Re: Another multiple shooting today

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    There is also a set of statistics derived in the US that indicates keeping a gun in a home makes the home less not more safe.
    https://lawcenter.giffords.org/guns-...ge-statistics/ Rev 5 is:
    So the bottom line is, no you are safer without.
    Nick, im not convinced. Im going to assume these studies are either gov funded ( in which case, i dont trust the gov to tell me anything, much less that im safer if i disarm myself ) or funded by people who want me to disarm. Same logic aplies.
    Even if Trump or Reagan told me that im safer without a gun, id not be inclined to give it up. Why? Because I FEEL safer with it. AND!!!!! Its not the governments responsibility to ensure my safety. Thats MY individual responsibility, and I will not rely in others for that purpose.

    I do appreciate the logic and references you bring to the argument, and dont take me as refusing facts. The fact is, i will not accept anything that tries to overide me controlling myself, my safety, or peace of mind. This is my right, and I will not relinquish it.

  18. #88
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    Default Re: Another multiple shooting today

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    Apart from those that need a gun to earn their living, e.g, members of the National Guard (that well regulated militia), game wardens who manage the health of herds by culling, land owners controlling vermin, or those hunting for the pot, why does any one need a gun? Limit those keeping a gun to those who can show just cause for needing to keep one.
    No one needs anything other than basic food, basic shelter, and water. The rest is what makes life interesting. Many things in life are dangerous if mis-handled.
    Its always people that have no interest in something that are wiling to ban it, and be damned to any logic behind it.
    I have a dozen handguns. Do I need them? By your argument, no. But I find them interesting, and I enjoy shooting them in the same way as I enjoy my bow and black powder. It takes concentration. It focuses my mind.

  19. #89
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    Default Re: Another multiple shooting today

    Quote Originally Posted by Decourcy View Post
    No one needs anything other than basic food, basic shelter, and water. The rest is what makes life interesting. Many things in life are dangerous if mis-handled.
    Its always people that have no interest in something that are wiling to ban it, and be damned to any logic behind it.
    I have a dozen handguns. Do I need them? By your argument, no. But I find them interesting, and I enjoy shooting them in the same way as I enjoy my bow and black powder. It takes concentration. It focuses my mind.
    Continue that logic to, how do you justify if someone even NEEDS to be? It cant be done.

  20. #90
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    Default Re: Another multiple shooting today

    Quote Originally Posted by sleek View Post
    Nick, im not convinced. Im going to assume these studies are either gov funded ( in which case, i dont trust the gov to tell me anything, much less that im safer if i disarm myself ) or funded by people who want me to disarm. Same logic aplies.
    Even if Trump or Reagan told me that im safer without a gun, id not be inclined to give it up. Why? Because I FEEL safer with it. AND!!!!! Its not the governments responsibility to ensure my safety. Thats MY individual responsibility, and I will not rely in others for that purpose.

    I do appreciate the logic and references you bring to the argument, and dont take me as refusing facts. The fact is, i will not accept anything that tries to overide me controlling myself, my safety, or peace of mind. This is my right, and I will not relinquish it.
    Well I think that it is a case of don't like the message? Shoot the messenger!
    It must be stressful to live a life scared shiy+less every day.
    I am glad that I do not.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  21. #91
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    Default Re: Another multiple shooting today

    Quote Originally Posted by George Jung View Post
    I had a pt in today, who happened to mention he was going deer hunting - with his AR-15 'which isn't an assault rifle - there is no such thing'. We all know the NRA talking points; this guy hit most of them, and was unmoved by facts or logic. Bizarre, some folks' priorities.
    AR-15 for deer? Why not?. .223 hunting rounds are available and adequate for the job. Is it worse than a model '94 in 44magnum, or a bolt rifle in 22 hornet or even, really, a LE in .303?

  22. #92
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    Default Re: Another multiple shooting today

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    Well I think that it is a case of don't like the message? Shoot the messenger!
    It must be stressful to live a life scared shiy+less every day.
    I am glad that I do not.
    Nick, this is a case of agree to disagree and acknowledge we have very different view points caused largly by the situations we live in and government philosophy.

    I hope you didnt feel i was shooting the messenger. And I hope you at least took the time to consider my argument.

  23. #93
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    Default Re: Another multiple shooting today

    Quote Originally Posted by Decourcy View Post
    No one needs anything other than basic food, basic shelter, and water. The rest is what makes life interesting. Many things in life are dangerous if mis-handled.
    Its always people that have no interest in something that are wiling to ban it, and be damned to any logic behind it.
    I have a dozen handguns. Do I need them? By your argument, no. But I find them interesting, and I enjoy shooting them in the same way as I enjoy my bow and black powder. It takes concentration. It focuses my mind.
    Are they all black powder? Do you keep them just for target practice? Are they stored securely when not in use?
    If yes to all of those you are complying with our (the UK) regulations and philosophy for safe gun ownership
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  24. #94
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    Default Re: Another multiple shooting today

    Quote Originally Posted by sleek View Post
    Continue that logic to, how do you justify if someone even NEEDS to be? It cant be done.
    I'll all comes down to who is allowed to set the standard for "need". I don't do it for other people, and I don't like it much when they attempt to do it for me.

  25. #95
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    Default Re: Another multiple shooting today

    Quote Originally Posted by Decourcy View Post
    AR-15 for deer? Why not?. .223 hunting rounds are available and adequate for the job. Is it worse than a model '94 in 44magnum, or a bolt rifle in 22 hornet or even, really, a LE in .303?
    I dont think the 22 is legal for deer. Just wanted to point that out.

  26. #96
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    Default Re: Another multiple shooting today

    Quote Originally Posted by Decourcy View Post
    I'll all comes down to who is allowed to set the standard for "need". I don't do it for other people, and I don't like it much when they attempt to do it for me.
    Agreed. They sure dont NEED to do that.

  27. #97
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    Default Re: Another multiple shooting today

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    Well I think that it is a case of don't like the message? Shoot the messenger!
    It must be stressful to live a life scared shiy+less every day.
    I am glad that I do not.
    Judging by the continuing death toll they probably have good reason to be terrified, let alone scared.
    Yet nothing effective will be done.

    I wonder if any betting agency has a book open on the date and number of the next inevitable event?

  28. #98
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    Default Re: Another multiple shooting today

    Quote Originally Posted by Decourcy View Post
    I'll all comes down to who is allowed to set the standard for "need". I don't do it for other people, and I don't like it much when they attempt to do it for me.
    Decourcy may I introduce you to society, society meet Decourcy.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  29. #99
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    Default Re: Another multiple shooting today

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    Are they all black powder? Do you keep them just for target practice? Are they stored securely when not in use?
    If yes to all of those you are complying with our (the UK) regulations and philosophy for safe gun ownership
    No to black powder. They vary from FN 1910's to Glock 22's to enfield .38's to colt 1911's.
    Target practice is all we are allowed for use here, and of course I store them securely.

    i am soon acquiring an "antique" Webley, which under our laws here, I am allowed to carry in the bush. I'll carry it for defence from Cougars. Is that a need? If no, why? If yes, why the antique but not my glock?

  30. #100
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    Default Re: Another multiple shooting today

    Quote Originally Posted by skuthorp View Post
    Judging by the continuing death toll they probably have good reason to be terrified, let alone scared.
    Yet nothing effective will be done.

    I wonder if any betting agency has a book open on the date and number of the next inevitable event?

    This is sick, and a real disservice to those of us actively working to change this state of affairs.

    Sick. And, not at ALL helpful.

    Peace,
    Robert

  31. #101
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    Default Re: Another multiple shooting today

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    Decourcy may I introduce you to society, society meet Decourcy.
    So, society as a crowd should be followed?

  32. #102
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    Default Re: Another multiple shooting today

    Quote Originally Posted by sleek View Post
    I believe state guaed units fulfill the militia requirement
    What about those who aren't members of the guard or the military? Doesn't stop them when bringing up a well regulated militia?

  33. #103
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    Default Re: Another multiple shooting today

    Quote Originally Posted by Decourcy View Post
    No to black powder. They vary from FN 1910's to Glock 22's to enfield .38's to colt 1911's.
    Target practice is all we are allowed for use here, and of course I store them securely.

    i am soon acquiring an "antique" Webley, which under our laws here, I am allowed to carry in the bush. I'll carry it for defence from Cougars. Is that a need? If no, why? If yes, why the antique but not my glock?
    Its not a need because you have no NEED to be in the bush. Aside from that, being out there is not healthy as a couger may get you and the gov needs to mandate due to the fact it covers your health bill, you stay out of the bush.

  34. #104
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    Default Re: Another multiple shooting today

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    Decourcy may I introduce you to society, society meet Decourcy.
    Then I hope to never see you question the decisions of the society in which you live, whether you agree with them or not. I comply with the laws and rules of my society, but always question that which I see as illogical or unjust.

  35. #105
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    Default Re: Another multiple shooting today

    Quote Originally Posted by Decourcy View Post
    No to black powder. They vary from FN 1910's to Glock 22's to enfield .38's to colt 1911's.
    Target practice is all we are allowed for use here, and of course I store them securely.

    i am soon acquiring an "antique" Webley, which under our laws here, I am allowed to carry in the bush. I'll carry it for defence from Cougars. Is that a need? If no, why? If yes, why the antique but not my glock?
    The only difference then is that the UK has decided no short barrelled guns modern guns (over .22 I think). Log guns are OK if no more than three cartridges, two in mag and oner in breech, so you are not so far in your level of responsibility as the UK and far more responsible than the ammosexuals posting on here.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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