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Thread: Another multiple shooting today

  1. #141
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    Default Re: Another multiple shooting today

    Quote Originally Posted by McMike View Post
    Most grandmas don't have the physical ability to responsibility discharge a firearm never mind drive a car. I've certainly heard the story's of old folks protecting themselves with a firearm but the number is far too little to justify the balance of innocent people dying from gun violence and suicide. Hell, a boy used his grandfathers gun to kill his grandmother for giving a crap and teaching the kid some responsibility. Why was that gun available?

    I'd like to see the numbers of old folks who die by their own gun via suicide vs those that successfully defend themselves with it . . . oh, wait, the CDC is prohibited from studying such things. But then, maybe old folks need that way out because our country is not interested in taking care of them.
    40 year olds are granmas. How old before your life isnt worth it? What about disabled folks?

  2. #142
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    Default Re: Another multiple shooting today

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Adams View Post
    Here another wacko gained the fame he desired at his death.....at the expense of so many innocents.
    Yup. So don't name him. Erase him from history. Get rid of the fame.

  3. #143
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    Default Re: Another multiple shooting today

    Quote Originally Posted by amish rob View Post
    Thanks, Yo. It is what it is, you know? Every day is easier. Halloween sucked. Especially for the older kids.

    I still have not, at all, addressed the two suicides of the summer. Those are hard. I’m ignoring them until I get some alone time on a boat after softball. Then, I imagine I’ll spend some time getting dust in my eyes...

    The sudden death of suicide is somehow easier to take than a sudden murder, though. In the former case, there’s reason to believe some suffering has ended. In the latter, the suffering has only just begun.

    There is a reason I love everyone and endeavor to make every day the best I can, for myself and everyone around me.

    Today may be my last, and I want my last day to be well lived.

    Peace,
    Robert
    I love you Robert. You're the light we need whether we want it or not. I don't know why I resist your way of thought so much, I've played the part of a kicked dog often enough to be in a constant state of flinching. So much so that I can't seem to relax long enough to enjoy the beauty. I can see it in you though, and that's saying something. So thank you.
    In the US this perverted idea of “blood and soil” over “constitutional principles” is the most radical and anti-democratic and anti-Conservative idea I have heard in my lifetime.

    ~C. Ross

  4. #144
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    Default Re: Another multiple shooting today

    Quote Originally Posted by S.V. Airlie View Post
    Sorry about that cartoon, didn't realize you were still lurking. You've said what's happened in your life and I should have taken that into account. Wanted to make a point about what I thought about arguing with sleek. My deeepest apologies!

    Meh. The internet is full of tasteless, soulless cartoons.

    Peace,
    Robert

  5. #145
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    Default Re: Another multiple shooting today

    Quote Originally Posted by sleek View Post
    40 year olds are granmas. How old before your life isnt worth it? What about disabled folks?
    Feeble 40 year olds? Either the US really is screwed or you are clutching at straws having lost it.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

    The power of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web
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  6. #146
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    Default Re: Another multiple shooting today

    Quote Originally Posted by sleek View Post
    40 year olds are granmas. How old before your life isnt worth it? What about disabled folks?
    What about the 26 killed in an elementary school not far from me? What's their life worth? As you can see, the proliferation of firearms to the point they are today can't even keep us safe. You act like we're trading one life for another, as if taking guns out of society is directly killing old ladies, yet guns in society is, in fact, killing both old ladies and children. Your argument is falling apart here. Sorry about your luck.
    In the US this perverted idea of “blood and soil” over “constitutional principles” is the most radical and anti-democratic and anti-Conservative idea I have heard in my lifetime.

    ~C. Ross

  7. #147
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    Default Re: Another multiple shooting today

    Quote Originally Posted by Decourcy View Post
    Yup. So don't name him. Erase him from history. Get rid of the fame.
    This needs to happen asap

  8. #148
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    Default Re: Another multiple shooting today

    Quote Originally Posted by McMike View Post
    What about the 26 killed in an elementary school not far from me? What's their life worth? As you can see, the proliferation of firearms to the point they are today can't even keep us safe. You act like we're trading one life for another, as if taking guns out of society is directly killing old ladies, yet guns in society is, in fact, killing both old ladies and children. Your argument is falling apart here. Sorry about your luck.
    Point is an unarmed intruder comes in with more strength than the victim
    An equalizer is a good adition.

  9. #149
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    Default Re: Another multiple shooting today

    Quote Originally Posted by McMike View Post
    I love you Robert. You're the light we need whether we want it or not. I don't know why I resist your way of thought so much, I've played the part of a kicked dog often enough to be in a constant state of flinching. So much so that I can't seem to relax long enough to enjoy the beauty. I can see it in you though, and that's saying something. So thank you.
    Brother, it’s my photograph in the Wikipedia entry for kicked dog syndrome. My epitaph will read, “He had so much POTENTIAL...”

    At a certain point, though, I realized that nobody had power over my mind. Nobody could force me to hate. Fight? Sure. But hate? Never.

    I decided, at a certain point, that I would NEVER be like Them. I always thought Luke Skywalker was weak and lame when I was a kid.
    But, that dude walked into a room with the two baddest cats in the galaxy UNARMED. Voluntarily. And refused to fight, until there was no other option.
    And, then still refused to become THAT.

    It is certainly not popular or easy to try and be this way. I am more fallible than most, really, and certainly prone to fits of rage and anger. But violence? Nah.

    That said, I CHOOSE to be nice and not use violence. I may use it in defense of self or others, but I will never succumb to violent hatred.

    I’m too human for that. Hahahaha.

    Peace,
    Robert

  10. #150
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    Default Re: Another multiple shooting today

    Quote Originally Posted by sleek View Post
    Point is an unarmed intruder comes in with more strength than the victim
    An equalizer is a good adition.
    You didn't even attempt to address my points.
    In the US this perverted idea of “blood and soil” over “constitutional principles” is the most radical and anti-democratic and anti-Conservative idea I have heard in my lifetime.

    ~C. Ross

  11. #151
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    Default Re: Another multiple shooting today

    Quote Originally Posted by McMike View Post
    You didn't even attempt to address my points.
    Because yours didnt adress mine.

  12. #152
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    Default Re: Another multiple shooting today

    Quote Originally Posted by sleek View Post
    Because yours didnt adress mine.
    Please learn how to spell
    This post is temporary and my disappear at the discretion of the managment

  13. #153
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    Default Re: Another multiple shooting today

    Quote Originally Posted by joe (socal) View Post
    please learn how to spell
    neber!

  14. #154
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    Default Re: Another multiple shooting today

    Quote Originally Posted by sleek View Post
    Because yours didnt adress mine.
    I directly addressed yours . . . BobbyS
    In the US this perverted idea of “blood and soil” over “constitutional principles” is the most radical and anti-democratic and anti-Conservative idea I have heard in my lifetime.

    ~C. Ross

  15. #155
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    Default Re: Another multiple shooting today

    Quote Originally Posted by McMike View Post
    I directly addressed yours . . . BobbyS
    Sigh. Then you missed the point that a person unarmed of greater strength breaks into a house. Whats the weaker person to do? Be defensless?

  16. #156
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    Default Re: Another multiple shooting today

    Quote Originally Posted by sleek View Post
    Sigh. Then you missed the point that a person unarmed of greater strength breaks into a house. Whats the weaker person to do? Be defensless?
    Call the police so they can arrange the coroner for you

  17. #157
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    Default Re: Another multiple shooting today

    Even here in Canada, I am legally allowed to use one of my handguns to defend myself in my home if required. It's uncommon, because our rates of violence are much lower. Home invasion type crimes are very rare.

  18. #158
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    Default Re: Another multiple shooting today

    Quote Originally Posted by sleek View Post
    So she should be defenseless because she may not be effective in her own defense, so you keep her from having any chance at all and guarantee her to be defensless?
    No, I'm saying granny is a bit old, not in the best health, can't see or hear.

  19. #159
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    Default Re: Another multiple shooting today

    Quote Originally Posted by S.V. Airlie View Post
    No, I'm saying granny is a bit old, not in the best health, can't see or hear.
    So, she doesnt deserve a chance? Unless your granma belongs in a home because she cant care for herswlf. But then they have security so....

    What about a guy fresh from surgery, cancer treatments, lost an arm, has muscle loss, or just worked out too hard at the gym and doesnt have the strength to win a fight for his life? How about women vs a standard guy or above standard guy? No gun for them cause they may not be effective?

  20. #160
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    Default Re: Another multiple shooting today

    Quote Originally Posted by sleek View Post
    So, she doesnt deserve a chance? Unless your granma belongs in a home because she cant care for herswlf. But then they have security so....

    What about a guy fresh from surgery, cancer treatments, lost an arm, has muscle loss, or just worked out too hard at the gym and doesnt have the strength to win a fight for his life? How about women vs a standard guy or above standard guy? No gun for them cause they may not be effective?
    Did those people killed in LAS Vagus de4serve a chance to live? Jeez sleek, THINK!

  21. #161
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    Default Re: Another multiple shooting today

    Quote Originally Posted by S.V. Airlie View Post
    Did those people killed in LAS Vagus de4serve a chance to live? Jeez sleek, THINK!
    Certainly they did. So? A guy could have driven a truck through that crowd. Youseem to focus on shooting, not killing. You are ignoring the argument, and creating a question for the solution you want.

  22. #162
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    Default Re: Another multiple shooting today

    If you take away all guns, the murder count via other methids will go up. What will your solution to knives, bombs, poison, vehicles, drowning, strangulation, claw hammers, be?

  23. #163
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    Default Re: Another multiple shooting today

    Quote Originally Posted by S.V. Airlie View Post
    Did those people killed in LAS Vagus de4serve a chance to live? Jeez sleek, THINK!
    Did a grandmother in her house kill those people? The guy that killed those people is on the same side of the divide as the home invader. The people killed in the crowd are on the same side as the grandmother. Equating the grandmother that chooses to defend herself from attack to the shooter in Las Vegas is quite a stretch. Some of those people in Vegas may have been carrying guns when they were shot. Does that make them less of a victim of crime in your eyes than the unarmed person beside them?

    good people are good people whether they are armed or not
    criminals are criminals whether they are armed or not

    intention makes the crime

  24. #164
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    Default Re: Another multiple shooting today

    I implied that granny with a gun wouldn't be able to hit a target, the one she's shooting at, someone else would more likely be shot by mistake. So it IS different Either that or she'd end up shooting herself and if the guy sees her pull a gun in slow motion, attempt to aim it with the weight of the gun is making her hand shake or even because of fear, he'd pull the trigger. The guy doesn't want to kill the old lady, he wants to scare her to make her give him his purse. The shooter in Las Vegas WANTED to kill people, as many as possible.

  25. #165
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    Default Re: Another multiple shooting today

    Quote Originally Posted by sleek View Post
    Couple of things about your points.

    I disagree about the duty of legislators enacting laws limiting anything fire arm related. I know, i know... i will crucify myself thanks. No law should be made to limit arms. Not until that amendment is amendmended.

    You dont want the average person to own an automatic with drum etc... Why? The average person isnt the problem. The average person isnt a murderer. You are worried about the person who isnt normal. Find that guy and deal with him.

    Otherwise you will multiply body counts etc....
    So? Is one life more important than ten? You are still not fixing the problem. The KILLER is the problem. Prevent him from becoming one and you save ALL the lives.

    How much firepower should the average person be allowed to have? All he can afford. Becajse average people arent the problem.

    I feel like everytime this is addressed it seems like an argument is being made on how big a bailing bucket is needed to keep a boat afloat rather than fixing the hole letting water in. Does water sink a boat or did the hole do it?
    Wow! There's so much wrong here I don't know where to begin.

    First of all we absolutely need to address the mental health issues behind this type of shooting, but that's no reason why we can't also more tightly regulate guns. Yes, it is possible to work on both issues, we don't have to pick only one approach. BTW, the gun lobby has strongly opposed background checks, licensing, etc. So how do YOU propose that we disarm and disable those who may commit these acts? Hint: the laws and methods we have now are not working, and ANY proposed change is killed by the Gun lobby.

    Second, you state that anyone should be able to own any weapon they can afford? sorry, but This is a truly sick statement. Why would someone want that type of firepower, unless they are mentally unhinged?

    If you make machine guns legal people will buy them, and they will end up being used in these types of acts. So why should you be anyone to own something like that? There is no justification, and I think if you are honest you will admit that. You claim to be an average person who would never commit mass murder, but how many times do we hear the statement "he was just a normal guy, I would never have expected this to happen..."? How do I know that you won't go postal some day?

    You seem to need a gun for protection because you're scared of other people with guns. What about the rest of us "average people" who are scared of all you with guns? What are we supposed to do? At least if the guns were less able to kill many people in a few seconds, that would be a start. Respectfully,

    Ralphie

  26. #166
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    Default Re: Another multiple shooting today

    Quote Originally Posted by sleek View Post
    Couple of things about your points.

    I disagree about the duty of legislators enacting laws limiting anything fire arm related. I know, i know... i will crucify myself thanks. No law should be made to limit arms. Not until that amendment is amendmended.

    You dont want the average person to own an automatic with drum etc... Why? The average person isnt the problem. The average person isnt a murderer. You are worried about the person who isnt normal. Find that guy and deal with him.

    Otherwise you will multiply body counts etc....
    So? Is one life more important than ten? You are still not fixing the problem. The KILLER is the problem. Prevent him from becoming one and you save ALL the lives.

    How much firepower should the average person be allowed to have? All he can afford. Becajse average people arent the problem.

    I feel like everytime this is addressed it seems like an argument is being made on how big a bailing bucket is needed to keep a boat afloat rather than fixing the hole letting water in. Does water sink a boat or did the hole do it?
    And how, pray tell, are you going to identify everyone who may go bonkers? The psychologists can't do it. If they can't do it, who can?

  27. #167
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    Default Re: Another multiple shooting today

    Rob, I'm so sorry for what happened. I can't even begin to imagine the pain that you must feel.

    i too make the most of every moment I have with my loved ones. I hug and kiss and tell my son that I love him every single day.

    Ralphie

  28. #168
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    Default Re: Another multiple shooting today

    Quote Originally Posted by sleek View Post
    Sigh. Then you missed the point that a person unarmed of greater strength breaks into a house. Whats the weaker person to do? Be defensless?
    And how often does that happen?

    When it does happen in places like England, Canada, Australia, or New Zealand where there are fewer guns in the house, very few people get killed or beaten up. I did have a mate who had someone, almost certainly on drugs, come into his house. My mate said "dude, who are you? Get out" and the guy did. I woke up one night to see someone in my garage. I called out and he ran. Neither of these guys were armed because neither of them needed to be. Everyone was safer.

    We don't have many guns in our societies, so most criminals don't have guns. If everyone can be armed, then criminals arm themselves so they are as powerful as their victims. When almost no one is armed, criminals don't normally bother because they don't want to spend an extra few years in the slammer for having an illegal weapon.

    A while back I became the victim of assault for the first time ever; a road rage incident in which the guy broke my nose while I was still seat-belted in, and then hit an old man while he was driving away. Because I was seated and strapped in, I was definitely weaker - and I got my nose broken again. That's a hell of a lot better than if the same madman had been in the same sort of rage, and we'd been armed. I'd take a few punches to the head over a few bullets to the head any day, thanks.
    Last edited by Chris249; 11-08-2018 at 09:03 PM.

  29. #169
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    Default Re: Another multiple shooting today

    Quote Originally Posted by Ralphie Boy View Post
    Rob, I'm so sorry for what happened. I can't even begin to imagine the pain that you must feel.

    i too make the most of every moment I have with my loved ones. I hug and kiss and tell my son that I love him every single day.

    Ralphie
    Just use me like Meatloaf in Fight Club.

    My name is Robert Paulson.

    We all knew someone killed by gun violence. Correction. We all knew a child killed by gun violence.

    Peace,
    Robert

  30. #170
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    Default Re: Another multiple shooting today

    Quote Originally Posted by Ralphie Boy View Post
    Wow! There's so much wrong here I don't know where to begin.

    First of all we absolutely need to address the mental health issues behind this type of shooting, but that's no reason why we can't also more tightly regulate guns. Yes, it is possible to work on both issues, we don't have to pick only one approach. BTW, the gun lobby has strongly opposed background checks, licensing, etc. So how do YOU propose that we disarm and disable those who may commit these acts? Hint: the laws and methods we have now are not working, and ANY proposed change is killed by the Gun lobby.

    Second, you state that anyone should be able to own any weapon they can afford? sorry, but This is a truly sick statement. Why would someone want that type of firepower, unless they are mentally unhinged?

    If you make machine guns legal people will buy them, and they will end up being used in these types of acts. So why should you be anyone to own something like that? There is no justification, and I think if you are honest you will admit that. You claim to be an average person who would never commit mass murder, but how many times do we hear the statement "he was just a normal guy, I would never have expected this to happen..."? How do I know that you won't go postal some day?

    You seem to need a gun for protection because you're scared of other people with guns. What about the rest of us "average people" who are scared of all you with guns? What are we supposed to do? At least if the guns were less able to kill many people in a few seconds, that would be a start. Respectfully,

    Ralphie
    To pick only one point here:

    You are aware that machine guns (yes, fully auto machine guns and select fire assault weapons) are perfectly legal in your country as long as the buyer is willing to jump through some hoops and pay a fee, and pay the insane selling price of course?

    In fact, dealers in Canada, and citizens who are grandfathered in from before they were banned, are in fact able to own them here.

  31. #171
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    Default Re: Another multiple shooting today

    Quote Originally Posted by sleek View Post
    Im split. The constitution was written in a time before these weapons were thought of. But, private citizens could own cannons and war ships back then so....

    The constitution was also written in a time before semi-auotmatic and automatic weapons, laser sights, high capacity magazines and all of the other stuff that modern gun owners have access to. If the criteria you use is what was thought of at the time of the constitution, then that excludes all modern weapons of any kind.

    Honestly id be happy to see it written in where things like surface rockets grenades, and fighter bombers were written out of private ownership. But because its not, strictly speaking... its not unconstitutional to own them.
    Why would you be in favor of excluding such things from private ownership?
    Last edited by BrianY; 11-08-2018 at 09:18 PM.
    I rather be an American than a Republican.

  32. #172
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    Default Re: Another multiple shooting today

    Quote Originally Posted by Decourcy View Post
    To pick only one point here:

    You are aware that machine guns (yes, fully auto machine guns and select fire assault weapons) are perfectly legal in your country as long as the buyer is willing to jump through some hoops and pay a fee, and pay the insane selling price of course?

    In fact, dealers in Canada, and citizens who are grandfathered in from before they were banned, are in fact able to own them here.
    I was not aware of this fact but I'm afraid I don't get your point. perhaps the cost and extra "hoops" involved dissuade most people from buying these? If only we could say the same for mostl other types of guns then there wouldn't be so many around, eh? Sounds like a good reason to more tightly regulate all guns. Ralphie

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    Default Re: Another multiple shooting today

    Quote Originally Posted by Ralphie Boy View Post
    I was not aware of this fact but I'm afraid I don't get your point. perhaps the cost and extra "hoops" involved dissuade most people from buying these? If only we could say the same for mostl other types of guns then there wouldn't be so many around, eh? Sounds like a good reason to more tightly regulate all guns. Ralphie
    My point is that if you don't understand your laws as they now are, how do you expect your opinion to be taken seriously?
    You are simply being emotional.

    Do you know anything about the history and implementation of the long gun registry in my country? Serious question as I think the results of that were informative.

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    Default Re: Another multiple shooting today

    yet you have not given a cogent rebuttal against my opinion. Your point about machine guns actually supports the idea that we need tighter gun regulation.

    Thanks, Ralphie

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    Default Re: Another multiple shooting today

    Quote Originally Posted by Ralphie Boy View Post
    yet you have not given a cogent rebuttal against my opinion. Your point about machine guns actually supports the idea that we need tighter gun regulation.

    Thanks, Ralphie
    No, it doesn't. Guns that you thought were illegal, and if they were legalized would cause mass shootings everywhere turn out to be pretty freely available. Expensive? Sure. But I could buy a sub machine gun down there (if I was a citizen) with a $200 permit and less than some of my hunting rifles.

    Machine guns down there are less tightly controlled than handguns up here.

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