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Thread: Another multiple shooting today

  1. #36
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    Default Re: Another multiple shooting today

    "A majority of voters want changes to the gun laws, but they vote for people who do not because other issues are more important."

    Yeah- like getting money from the NRA

  2. #37
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    Default Re: Another multiple shooting today

    Quote Originally Posted by GregH View Post
    "A majority of voters want changes to the gun laws, but they vote for people who do not because other issues are more important."

    Yeah- like getting money from the NRA
    And then ypu have the flip side. Where lots if voters want to eliminate gun laws. And then there is the, "congress shall make no law" problem...

    As humans one of our biggest struggles is coming to grips with our own humanity, and lack of control. Just because there is a problem, doesnt mean we can solve it. Even if we can, we often affect other things. Its a give and take.

  3. #38
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    Default Re: Another multiple shooting today

    Quote Originally Posted by sleek View Post
    And then ypu have the flip side. Where lots if voters want to eliminate gun laws. And then there is the, "congress shall make no law" problem...

    As humans one of our biggest struggles is coming to grips with our own humanity, and lack of control. Just because there is a problem, doesnt mean we can solve it. Even if we can, we often affect other things. Its a give and take.
    I think you can count on two hands sleek for those who want to eliminate guns. You're drinking the NRA Koolaid again!

  4. #39
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    Default Re: Another multiple shooting today

    Quote Originally Posted by S.V. Airlie View Post
    I think you can count on two hands sleek for those who want to eliminate guns. You're drinking the NRA Koolaid again!
    Actually, I doubt gun grabbers ( to loosly use the term ) are far from majority. I think they just make the most noise, and most gun owners are the quiet type, live and let live.

  5. #40
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    Default Re: Another multiple shooting today

    Quote Originally Posted by sleek View Post
    Actually, I doubt gun grabbers ( to loosly use the term ) are far from majority. I think they just make the most noise, and most gun owners are the quiet type, live and let live.
    But, people are being killed with guns. Sometimes there are multiple killings. Are you letting those murdered people live sleek? Answer is NO! I don't think there wanted to die unless they are drinking a Bud Lite! Not directed at you specifically here!

  6. #41
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    Default Re: Another multiple shooting today

    Quote Originally Posted by S.V. Airlie View Post
    But, people are being killed with guns. Sometimes there are multiple killings. Are you letting those murdered people live sleek? Answer is NO! I don't think there wanted to die unless they are drinking a Bud Lite! Not directed at you specifically here!
    If all i had was bud lite, and I got shot, the shooter would be doing me a favor.

    I think there is too much focus in the weapon used than the fact that people do harm. Trucks, knives, fertilizer, take your pick, outlaw it, and murder rates wont drop.

  7. #42
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    Default Re: Another multiple shooting today

    Does anyone here know anyone with PTSD from this last war? That has been through the AWW program, perhaps? I currently know 2, one of which has the most gruesome collection of photos I believe I have ever tried NOT to see. He flips through these things, with a story for each, and is unmoved by any of it. He drifts in and out of his serious war personality to his civilian one. All he keeps saying is, "Thank God for AWW." He has multiple gunshot and shrapnel scars. To try and treat someone like this normally like, just another day, is one of the most awkward things I have been confronted with.

  8. #43
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    Default Re: Another multiple shooting today

    Quote Originally Posted by sleek View Post

    So this guy being a marine makes this shooting completely different than almost any I have heard of.
    Lee Harvey Oswald for one. Charles Whitman for another. Long list of them, actually. Here's a link. IT'S Easy to google up lots of articles on this topic.



    Argument suggesting ex-military are disproportionately involved in killings.


    I have heard several explanations for this but something that attracts my attention is, loosely, that it's easier to kill if you've been taught to do it and especially if you've been exposed to war and battle. The much ballyhooed virtue of "common sense" should make that self evident but as I mentioned, there's a lot written on the topic already.
    One of the most enduring qualities of an old wooden boat is the smell it imparts to your clothing.

  9. #44
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    Default Re: Another multiple shooting today

    Quote Originally Posted by sleek View Post
    If all i had was bud lite, and I got shot, the shooter would be doing me a favor.

    I think there is too much focus in the weapon used than the fact that people do harm. Trucks, knives, fertilizer, take your pick, outlaw it, and murder rates wont drop.
    You're really avoiding my question! Mine was specific, you go inter generalities! A dog can cill you, a liion can kill you, drinking too much alcohol can kill you, steps between the 1st and 2nd floors can kill you, drinking Koolaid laced with poison can kill you, being allergic to bees can kill you, diseases like Ebola can kill you! Get the point yet sleek?If you eliminate all the reasons I gave rates do go down. A gun, is an innate item, the shooter does the damage.As to murder, you can be murdered with rope, plastic, many elements and compounds.The rate will go down. How about I say that guns are the greatest cause to be murdered with!
    Last edited by S.V. Airlie; 11-08-2018 at 01:01 PM.

  10. #45
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    Default Re: Another multiple shooting today

    I sure hope none of you have to hold your friend’s hand and try and help her come to terms with unplugging her brain dead son who’s face was blown off as he ran from a would be robber.

    Peace,
    Robert

  11. #46
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    Default Re: Another multiple shooting today

    That's awful. PM me. I have a story for you.
    One of the most enduring qualities of an old wooden boat is the smell it imparts to your clothing.

  12. #47
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    Default Re: Another multiple shooting today

    Quote Originally Posted by Breakaway View Post
    I'm no expert, Jimmy. Just going by Wikipedia's description of California gun laws. Maybe some people--police, security, etc are allowed?
    Perhaps the gun was stolen?

    Kevin
    America doesn't know what "strict gun laws" are. Try ours, or Australias, but then, we have only a tiny fraction of the death rate per capita.
    We cant brag, there are still the occasional idiotic actions, but its very uncommon.
    Sad to hear about yet another massacre. I've no idea how to fix that.

    John Welsford
    An expert is but a beginner with experience.

  13. #48
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    Default Re: Another multiple shooting today

    Quote Originally Posted by amish rob View Post
    I sure hope none of you have to hold your friend’s hand and try and help her come to terms with unplugging her brain dead son who’s face was blown off as he ran from a would be robber.

    Peace,
    Robert
    Robert, ypu cant take this talk personally. That was a **** situation you went through. Im glad she had you.

  14. #49
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    Default Re: Another multiple shooting today

    Quote Originally Posted by S.V. Airlie View Post
    You're really avoiding my question! Mine was specific, you go inter generalities! A dog can cill you, a liion can kill you, drinking too much alcohol can kill you, steps between the 1st and 2nd floors can kill you, drinking Koolaid laced with poison can kill you, being allergic to bees can kill you, diseases like Ebola can kill you! Get the point yet sleek?If you eliminate all the reasons I gave rates do go down. A gun, is an innate item, the shooter does the damage.As to murder, you can be murdered with rope, plastic, many elements and compounds.The rate will go down. How about I say that guns are the greatest cause to be murdered with!
    No, i am not, i dont think i read a question not filled with rhetoric. And you mention things beyond human controll as an argument.

  15. #50
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    Default Re: Another multiple shooting today

    Quote Originally Posted by sleek View Post
    Robert, ypu cant take this talk personally. That was a **** situation you went through. Im glad she had you.
    He most certainly can sleek! He's lived through it!You just call it a *** situation because you think it's only happened to him!

  16. #51
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    Default Re: Another multiple shooting today

    Quote Originally Posted by S.V. Airlie View Post
    He most certainly can sleek! He's lived through it!You just call it a *** situation because you think it's only happened to him!
    No. I just know that we are not as emotionally involved as he is. I hope he doesnt take it personally. He is a good guy.

  17. #52
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    Default Re: Another multiple shooting today

    Sleek, by any chance did you get a chance to follow that link yet?

    Rob is a good guy. There are by the way other people on this forum that have suffered similar situations. I believe most of us have been touched by a gun suicide (which is not the same thing) and also by violent gun crimes that involve injury or death to someone we know.
    One of the most enduring qualities of an old wooden boat is the smell it imparts to your clothing.

  18. #53
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    Default Re: Another multiple shooting today

    Quote Originally Posted by sleek View Post
    No. I just know that we are not as emotionally involved as he is. I hope he doesnt take it personally. He is a good guy.
    Not directly sleek, I didn't know the victim but, there are thousands who have gone through similar situations. I'm appalled to hear any killings, I bleed a bit every time one dies uselessly although it's becoming practically a daily event and I'm becoming numb now.

    Just dispicable!.

  19. #54
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    Default Re: Another multiple shooting today

    Not yet

  20. #55
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    Default Re: Another multiple shooting today

    Take a look. It's just a starting point when it comes to what is a pretty well researched topic. It's been going on for centuries. Men come home from war and the combination of what they experienced and witnessed coupled with fitting back in is a challenge for even the best adjusted minds. I think any of the vets here who saw extended periods of combat can attest to that.
    One of the most enduring qualities of an old wooden boat is the smell it imparts to your clothing.

  21. #56
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    Default Re: Another multiple shooting today

    I will be willing to bet it is another adverse reaction to over dosing on uptake inhibitors, self loathing and gun ownership.

    No body wants to address any of these issues.
    Be wary of your critics, at peace with your decisions, and work hard to be a better man.

  22. #57
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    Default Re: Another multiple shooting today

    Quote Originally Posted by sleek View Post
    Robert, ypu cant take this talk personally. That was a **** situation you went through. Im glad she had you.
    She?! What about my effed up kids?! Who are now afraid to go anywhere, lest they be shot by a random. Think it won’t happen?

    The problem is NOBODY takes it personally.

    Peace,
    Robert

  23. #58
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    Default Re: Another multiple shooting today

    Quote Originally Posted by amish rob View Post
    She?! What about my effed up kids?! Who are now afraid to go anywhere, lest they be shot by a random. Think it won’t happen?

    The problem is NOBODY takes it personally.

    Peace,
    Robert
    Im sorry

  24. #59
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    Default Re: Another multiple shooting today

    Quote Originally Posted by sleek View Post
    Im sorry
    Don’t be. You have opinions, thoughts, and experiences like us all, and surely seem open to discussing stuff. I hope you know, too, I ain’t out for you, or nothing, and not trying to single you out. You’ve always been cool to me.

    It’s just a problem we HAVE to face up to. Too many people are shooting too many people, period.

    End of discussion.

    The solutions are... well, complicated doesn’t even begin to address the solutions. There are no pat answers, no easy answers, and really no simple way to deal with where we are.

    But, we have to deal with it in a way that citizens don’t shoot each other with regularity.

    Peace,
    Robert

  25. #60
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    Default Re: Another multiple shooting today

    Rob has a good point. If everyone took it personally, this would get fixed.

  26. #61
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    Default Re: Another multiple shooting today

    The question shouldn't be "how do we get rid of guns". It should be "how do we stop people from wanting to shoot each other".

    You can bring up Austrailan or British guns laws as a reason for less gun violence all you want, but the reality is that those countries were never as internally violent as the US. Few, if any, developed countries have ever been. At least not in modern memory.

    There is something very disturbing about the American psyche (yes, a cultural generalization) and its glorification of violence as a way to solve problems. Nothing will change unless that core problem is addressed.

  27. #62
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    Default Re: Another multiple shooting today

    Quote Originally Posted by Lew Barrett View Post
    Take a look. It's just a starting point when it comes to what is a pretty well researched topic. It's been going on for centuries. Men come home from war and the combination of what they experienced and witnessed coupled with fitting back in is a challenge for even the best adjusted minds. I think any of the vets here who saw extended periods of combat can attest to that.
    Sunday is the centenary of the WW1 armistice. Australia lost 60,000 in action, and another 18,000 to suicide in the next 20 years, many with the souvenir they brought home. I have no figures on other 'collateral damage' that was done. Suicide of veterans kills more today than active service here, but the guns are not available. My father never recovered from WW2.
    When I started the thread I wondered how long it would take for the defenders of 'precious' to turn up, sleek being the current representative.
    Last edited by skuthorp; 11-08-2018 at 02:57 PM.

  28. #63
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    Default Re: Another multiple shooting today

    Quote Originally Posted by Decourcy View Post
    The question shouldn't be "how do we get rid of guns". It should be "how do we stop people from wanting to shoot each other".

    You can bring up Austrailan or British guns laws as a reason for less gun violence all you want, but the reality is that those countries were never as internally violent as the US. Few, if any, developed countries have ever been. At least not in modern memory.

    There is something very disturbing about the American psyche (yes, a cultural generalization) and its glorification of violence as a way to solve problems. Nothing will change unless that core problem is addressed.
    Very true.
    Going back to Cowboy movies and lately Video games, there was/is never a 'come back' for shooting people. Reality for officials is a investigation while on 'leave'.

    A few of my senior relatives were in WW11, they killed some of the opposition. My father was affected by his earliest encounter with a German pilot in a FW109 who he killed. Afer the war, he got on with life. We had some war trophies, including fully automatic guns with amunition. No temptation to wreck havoc. So, what is wrong with things now?

  29. #64
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    Default Re: Another multiple shooting today

    Quote Originally Posted by skuthorp View Post
    Sunday is the centenary of the WW1 armistice. Australia lost 60,000 in action, and another 18,000 to suicide in the next 20 years, many with the souvenir they brought home. I have no figures on other 'collateral damage' that was done. Suicide of veterans kills more today than active service here, but the guns are not available. My father never recovered from WW2.
    When I started the thread I wondered how long it would take for the defenders of 'precious' to turn up, sleek being the current representative.
    I took an oath to defend it. Here I am.

  30. #65
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    Default Re: Another multiple shooting today

    Maybe some don't want to discuss the types of weapons which are allowed in this county, but the topic is certainly Germane to public safety. (I'm trying hard not to get banned here)

    It is the duty of our legislators to enact laws limiting the firepower of guns owned by the public. Would anyone disagree?
    We don't want the average person to be able to own a fully automatic gun with drum magazine, correct? Otherwise you will be multiplying the weekly body counts by!10 or 100 times. If we can all agree on that then maybe we need to ask ourselves, just how much firepower should the average person be allowed to own?

    BTW, California may have the strictest gun laws in the nation but they are
    not strict enough for me. I'm rapidly approaching the point of just wanting to ban them all.

    Ralphie

  31. #66
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    Default Re: Another multiple shooting today

    The problem is, in part, the NRA makes it perfectly clear that people want to take their guns. When asked, that's the firs thing many say. So the fear factor is right up there. PS, they think ALL guns, not certain types.

  32. #67
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    Default Re: Another multiple shooting today

    Quote Originally Posted by Ralphie Boy View Post
    Maybe some don't want to discuss the types of weapons which are allowed in this county, but the topic is certainly Germane to public safety. (I'm trying hard not to get banned here)

    It is the duty of our legislators to enact laws limiting the firepower of guns owned by the public. Would anyone disagree?
    We don't want the average person to be able to own a fully automatic gun with drum magazine, correct? Otherwise you will be multiplying the weekly body counts by!10 or 100 times. If we can all agree on that then maybe we need to ask ourselves, just how much firepower should the average person be allowed to own?

    BTW, California may have the strictest gun laws in the nation but they are
    not strict enough for me. I'm rapidly approaching the point of just wanting to ban them all.

    Ralphie
    Apart from those that need a gun to earn their living, e.g, members of the National Guard (that well regulated militia), game wardens who manage the health of herds by culling, land owners controlling vermin, or those hunting for the pot, why does any one need a gun? Limit those keeping a gun to those who can show just cause for needing to keep one.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  33. #68
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    Default Re: Another multiple shooting today

    Quote Originally Posted by skuthorp View Post
    Sunday is the centenary of the WW1 armistice. Australia lost 60,000 in action, and another 18,000 to suicide in the next 20 years, many with the souvenir they brought home. I have no figures on other 'collateral damage' that was done. Suicide of veterans kills more today than active service here, but the guns are not available. My father never recovered from WW2.
    When I started the thread I wondered how long it would take for the defenders of 'precious' to turn up, sleek being the current representative.
    120,000 wounded many of whom died young as a result of their wounds.
    The definition of stupid has got to be the belief that more guns will negate the bloodshed done with guns.

  34. #69
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    Default Re: Another multiple shooting today

    Quote Originally Posted by Ralphie Boy View Post
    Maybe some don't want to discuss the types of weapons which are allowed in this county, but the topic is certainly Germane to public safety. (I'm trying hard not to get banned here)

    It is the duty of our legislators to enact laws limiting the firepower of guns owned by the public. Would anyone disagree?
    We don't want the average person to be able to own a fully automatic gun with drum magazine, correct? Otherwise you will be multiplying the weekly body counts by!10 or 100 times. If we can all agree on that then maybe we need to ask ourselves, just how much firepower should the average person be allowed to own?

    BTW, California may have the strictest gun laws in the nation but they are
    not strict enough for me. I'm rapidly approaching the point of just wanting to ban them all.

    Ralphie
    Couple of things about your points.

    I disagree about the duty of legislators enacting laws limiting anything fire arm related. I know, i know... i will crucify myself thanks. No law should be made to limit arms. Not until that amendment is amendmended.

    You dont want the average person to own an automatic with drum etc... Why? The average person isnt the problem. The average person isnt a murderer. You are worried about the person who isnt normal. Find that guy and deal with him.

    Otherwise you will multiply body counts etc....
    So? Is one life more important than ten? You are still not fixing the problem. The KILLER is the problem. Prevent him from becoming one and you save ALL the lives.

    How much firepower should the average person be allowed to have? All he can afford. Becajse average people arent the problem.

    I feel like everytime this is addressed it seems like an argument is being made on how big a bailing bucket is needed to keep a boat afloat rather than fixing the hole letting water in. Does water sink a boat or did the hole do it?

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    Default Re: Another multiple shooting today

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    Apart from those that need a gun to earn their living, e.g, members of the National Guard (that well regulated militia), game wardens who manage the health of herds by culling, land owners controlling vermin, or those hunting for the pot, why does any one need a gun? Limit those keeping a gun to those who can show just cause for needing to keep one.
    Decide if I justly need one.

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