Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 123 ... LastLast
Results 36 to 70 of 111

Thread: resorcinol glue...now desperatly seeking supplier

  1. #36
    Join Date
    Feb 2000
    Location
    San Francisco Bay
    Posts
    11,659

    Default Re: resorcinol glue...now desperatly seeking supplier

    Not to worry. I've used WEST epoxy adhesive on spars the length of yours that have lasted forty years or so at this point and are still going strong, living in the California sun with nothing but varnish on them. They were built in the days before WEST came out with G-Flex (more flexible) and their line of tropical hardeners (longer working time.) We had to put the mixed epoxy "on ice" in flat pans to keep it cold so it wouldn't kick off before we got it all spread on long spars back then. It would turn cloudy milky white from the condensed moisture on the refrigerated resin. It worked without a hitch. Today, I'd have no hesitation in using G-Flex with slow "tropical" hardener to glue up spars.

    I strongly suspect that the Resorcinol-type powdered urea resin adhesives are going the way of the button hook and the buggy whip. They are somewhat tricky to use and, significantly from a manufacturer's perspective, have a one year shelf life. When the time between manufacture and sale is that short, the product has to sell fast to keep it moving in the stream of commerce. Retailers don't want to get stuck with outdated product and manufacturers don't want to have to eat the losses on the return of outdated product. The mixing requirements of the powdered urea resin adhesives add manufacturing time and expense, so production users have gone to other adhesive options. All of these factors seem to be pricing these once commonplace adhesives out of the market. It's very hard to beat the epoxies at this point.

  2. #37
    Join Date
    May 1999
    Location
    north queensland
    Posts
    2,648

    Default Re: resorcinol glue...now desperatly seeking supplier

    thanks again for all the valuable comments.
    Its wonderful to have this forum to tap into when help is needed.


    I think the distinction needs to be made though between urea formaldehyde and phenol resorcinol formaldehyde: the two are not the same and the urea formaldehyde glue is inferior to the phenol resin.

    In my experience, using resorcinol is easy enough even here in the tropics. But the work has to be well planned out and many willing hands are best to able to be able to apply the clamps in time. No mucking about until the job is done!!! We've glued up a number of big masts/spars back in the day when Dad had his commercial yard and was building 50'+ schooners and ketches.

    Bob, I take onboard your comments regarding the longevity of epoxy in the California sun...similar to our own. It is heartening to read about your experience. I certainly haven't ruled out using epoxy and varnishing over but I do need time to get my head around the concept!

    CP Adhesives website looks promising so Ill be certainly contacting them asap.
    Last edited by Bernadette; 11-05-2018 at 04:35 PM.

  3. #38
    Join Date
    May 1999
    Location
    north queensland
    Posts
    2,648

    Default Re: resorcinol glue...now desperatly seeking supplier

    Quote Originally Posted by Gib Etheridge View Post
    Gib, thanks for the link. I had seen the website previously but for some reason it came up as a 404 error so I sort of just assumed the page/business was defunct! Not so!
    Ive contacted them now.

    thanks.

  4. #39
    Join Date
    May 1999
    Location
    north queensland
    Posts
    2,648

    Default Re: resorcinol glue...now desperatly seeking supplier

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Cleek View Post
    Not to worry. I've used WEST epoxy adhesive on spars the length of yours that have lasted forty years or so at this point and are still going strong, living in the California sun with nothing but varnish on them. They were built in the days before WEST came out with G-Flex (more flexible) and their line of tropical hardeners (longer working time.) We had to put the mixed epoxy "on ice" in flat pans to keep it cold so it wouldn't kick off before we got it all spread on long spars back then. It would turn cloudy milky white from the condensed moisture on the refrigerated resin. It worked without a hitch. Today, I'd have no hesitation in using G-Flex with slow "tropical" hardener to glue up spars.

    I strongly suspect that the Resorcinol-type powdered urea resin adhesives are going the way of the button hook and the buggy whip. They are somewhat tricky to use and, significantly from a manufacturer's perspective, have a one year shelf life. When the time between manufacture and sale is that short, the product has to sell fast to keep it moving in the stream of commerce. Retailers don't want to get stuck with outdated product and manufacturers don't want to have to eat the losses on the return of outdated product. The mixing requirements of the powdered urea resin adhesives add manufacturing time and expense, so production users have gone to other adhesive options. All of these factors seem to be pricing these once commonplace adhesives out of the market. It's very hard to beat the epoxies at this point.

    Bob, I guess I should be asking the question: what varnish have you used, how many coats did you apply and what maintenance programme was put into place for the masts etc? Has there been any degradation of the glue line at all?

    Im not concerned about the structural integrity if I use epoxy. Im just concerned about the 'exterior' glue line degrading (irrespective of how tight the join may be...) and the follow on process from that in the worst case scenario.
    Last edited by Bernadette; 11-06-2018 at 04:36 PM.

  5. #40
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    EU
    Posts
    374

    Default Re: resorcinol glue...now desperatly seeking supplier

    Quote Originally Posted by Bernadette View Post
    Rumars
    Thanks for the links and info.

    The first link unfortunately is not in English and I cant understand any of it!
    Sorry, I had not checked that their english site is not working. They are the manufacturer, fresh batches should be no problem. Write to them in english at shop@bindulin.de

  6. #41
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Lindstrom, MN
    Posts
    2,240

    Default Re: resorcinol glue...now desperatly seeking supplier

    Quote Originally Posted by Bernadette View Post
    I think the distinction needs to be made though between urea formaldehyde and phenol resorcinol formaldehyde: the two are not the same and the urea formaldehyde glue is inferior to the phenol resin.
    I posted a link that described UF, MUF, PRF. PF and RF. What we are calling resorcinol is resorcinol-formaldahyde, PF not PRF, which is phenol-resorcinol-formaldahyde. I have to admit to google expertise here since I had not heard of MUF or PRF before, but I did some fact checking before bloviating. I had to read it a few times before I realized that resorcinol was only mentioned once at then end of the article.

    As Bob said, UF and PF may be going the way of the dodo bird. The glulam industry is the volume production driver, and we in the consumer market can't always buy things that aren't made by the tank car.

    http://www.glulam.co.uk/principalCho...esives.htmSome straight urea formaldehyde (UF) adhesives were also in use until relatively recently. Cold-curing UF systems with additions of separate hardener and fillers were most common. Dependent upon the brand formulation and the amount of filler, their moisture resistance could be satisfactory. In general terms, similar comments to the above regarding prevention of water ingress are applicable. Amongst the various adhesives discussed, the older UF types are perhaps the most likely to have suffered from deterioration simply through age combined with relatively mild atmospheric cycling. Modern melamine urea formaldehyde (MUF) adhesives, in brands approved as EN 301 Type I, are a considerable improvement over these older types.


    Present phenol resorcinol formaldehyde (PRF) brands similarly have forerunners. Both pure phenolic formaldehyde [PF] adhesives and pure resorcinol formaldehyde [RF] types have been manufactured in the past. Neither is now in use for glulam, and the former type was mainly produced in film format, for pressing between plywood veneers.


    Some PRF brands themselves have been in continuous use for decades. Since the introduction of the CEN system, adhesive manufacturers have taken steps to have certain of these re-qualified partially on the basis of long experience of satisfactory use in the class formerly known as “Weather and Boil Proof” (WBP).
    Management is the art of counting beans. Leadership is the art of making every being count. --Joe Finch

  7. #42
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Northern NSW Australia
    Posts
    73,091

    Default Re: resorcinol glue...now desperatly seeking supplier

    I was under the impression that the adhesive used to glue laminated beams for the building industry was either Resorcinol or something very similar.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  8. #43
    Join Date
    Feb 2000
    Location
    San Francisco Bay
    Posts
    11,659

    Default Re: resorcinol glue...now desperatly seeking supplier

    Quote Originally Posted by Bernadette View Post
    Bob, I guess I should be asking the question: what varnish have you used, how many coats did you apply and what maintenance programme was put into place for the masts etc? Has there been any degradation of the glue line at all?

    Im not concerned about the structural integrity if I use epoxy. Im just concerned about the 'exterior' glue line degrading and the follow on process from that in the worst case scenario.
    No magic to it. Plain old varnish. Generally, I use ZSpar Captain's, but the same applies of some jobs that were done with Epiphanes and even WestMarine "Skipper," which is the same as ZSpar Captain's. Six or eight coats to start from the wood and hope it doesn't get ahead of you. I've seen a couple "go south" and start peeling. They were wooded and bleached and sanded and revarnished with no apparent problems with the epoxy.

    Epoxy is vulnerable to UV degradation, but that is really only a concern where the epoxy is spread as a coating over a flat area that is exposed to the sun. When epoxy is used as an adhesive, as with spars, the only epoxy that is exposed to the sun at all, with or without UV protective varnish, is the infinitesimally small outside edge of the glue line. Assuming that fine edge is exposed to the sun without protection and degrades somewhat, it won't do so for more than a very minute distance before there's no way sunlight can penetrate between the faying surfaces of the joint, no matter what.

    I'd be surprised if anybody would use Resorcinol type adhesive on spars at all in this day and age, although I know it still has its adherants. Resorcinol-type adhesives have their own "half-life," too, you know. From what I've seen, epoxy lasts longer.

  9. #44
    Join Date
    Jan 2000
    Location
    Portland, Maine
    Posts
    16,837

    Default Re: resorcinol glue...now desperatly seeking supplier

    And now with G-Flex I would not hesitate to glue a large mast with epoxy.

  10. #45
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Port Townsend WA
    Posts
    11,826

    Default Re: resorcinol glue...now desperatly seeking supplier

    The thing that amazes me is the variety of glues that are now available for all manner of job requirements! In the dark ages of gluedom, when boat masts were glued up by the Herreshoff Mfg. Company such as the S boat masts that Nathaniel designed, the only glue available was hide glue, an adhesive that was and still is, water soluable. Masts had to be well varnished in order to prevent the glue from softening and causing delamination of the spars. I grew up using a glue that is water resistant and still even today is viable for gluing up spars, "Weldwood Plastic Resin Glue". I would guess that over the years I have glued up close to more than a hundred spars using this wood glue and I have never seen it fail!
    However just to let you know that I am not against the modern glues, I am very much in favor of West System's G/Flex Epoxy. It will handle a vast variety of oily and hard to glue woods such as teak and oak. I like it for double planking and in all cases where wood will be called upon to expand, contract, flex or bend! This glue will not let go! And, it does not create a color that is unsightly under varnish either!
    Jay

  11. #46
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Portland, Oregon
    Posts
    50,469

    Default Re: resorcinol glue...now desperatly seeking supplier

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Greer View Post
    The thing that amazes me is the variety of glues that are now available for all manner of job requirements! In the dark ages of gluedom, when boat masts were glued up by the Herreshoff Mfg. Company such as the S boat masts that Nathaniel designed, the only glue available was hide glue, an adhesive that was and still is, water soluable. Masts had to be well varnished in order to prevent the glue from softening and causing delamination of the spars. I grew up using a glue that is water resistant and still even today is viable for gluing up spars, "Weldwood Plastic Resin Glue". I would guess that over the years I have glued up close to more than a hundred spars using this wood glue and I have never seen it fail!
    However just to let you know that I am not against the modern glues, I am very much in favor of West System's G/Flex Epoxy. It will handle a vast variety of oily and hard to glue woods such as teak and oak. I like it for double planking and in all cases where wood will be called upon to expand, contract, flex or bend! This glue will not let go! And, it does not create a color that is unsightly under varnish either!
    Jay
    It is cool in a lot of ways. There are adhesives tailored for more specific tasks. In PVA'S for instance... it's no longer just 'Elmer's'. There's the basic PVA (Elmer's, Titebond original). There's Type 2 (water-resistant - Titebond 2). There's Type 1 (waterproof - Titebond 3). There's a thickened version (for vertical surfaces/no dripping). There's a fast-set. There's slow-set. There a veneering version - thickened and modified to reduce bleed-thru. And there are probably more I'm forgetting. Izza nice. But it does make it harder for the beginner to make informed decisions. And for that my advice is always the same. You don't have to know everything about everything... you just need to find some knowledgeable suppliers that can advise you.

    Regarding the powdered urea formaldehyde adhesives (like Weldwood Plastic Resin Glue)... I have seen them fail, and specifically on spars. I've repaired a number of them where the glue joints have dried out, and the adhesive turned to hard little bits of grit. Some so bad that the varnish and a few fasteners were all that was holding the spar together. All about 40 - 60 years old. Several of them from Cheoy Lee, and other Asian shops, who the marine historians tell me used that adhesive for spars for a long time.
    David G
    Harbor Woodworks
    https://www.facebook.com/HarborWoodworks/

    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  12. #47
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    La Conner, WA
    Posts
    211

    Default Re: resorcinol glue...now desperatly seeking supplier

    Weldwood Plastic Resin Glue was the standard in the NW boat yards for years, I used it at Jensen’s and Vic Franck’s. The only place Resorcinol was used was for the double diagonal planking, and we had to cover the whole boat at night so the diesel heater could keep the structure at 70 degrees.
    All the deck beams, plywood splined joints, interior cabinetry was all Weldwood. We all carried little paper cups with the mixed Weldwood from place to place as we worked through the day.
    if memory serves, a large oval shaped spruce mast might have been Resorcinol as well. I only remember the discussions of the unsightly Resorcinol blue lines versus the almost invisible Weldwood as the new spar was to be varnished.
    Oh, most important, Weldwood is water resistant but will not stand up to boiling water. So check your intended boating waters.

  13. #48
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    South Australia and Tasmania
    Posts
    15,748

    Default Re: resorcinol glue...now desperatly seeking supplier

    Bern I think you said you found a supplier who sells 1000 kg lots. Who do they sell to? Maybe find a customer and have a chat with them. They will be a building materials manufacturer or furniture maker or something. Carton of beer and your good to go.

  14. #49
    Join Date
    Feb 2000
    Location
    San Francisco Bay
    Posts
    11,659

    Default Re: resorcinol glue...now desperatly seeking supplier

    Quote Originally Posted by David G View Post
    Regarding the powdered urea formaldehyde adhesives (like Weldwood Plastic Resin Glue)... I have seen them fail, and specifically on spars. I've repaired a number of them where the glue joints have dried out, and the adhesive turned to hard little bits of grit. Some so bad that the varnish and a few fasteners were all that was holding the spar together. All about 40 - 60 years old. Several of them from Cheoy Lee, and other Asian shops, who the marine historians tell me used that adhesive for spars for a long time.
    You can say that again! In my neck of the woods, we pretty much assume that Cheoy Lee and Taiwanese-built spars of the 'sixties and 'seventies are all suspect and due for total spar rebuilds, probably starting about twenty years ago. This isn't because they were improperly built, but apparently a result of the limited life span of the adhesive used. Nobody in the business expects the "monkey sh*t" (as we called it) used to glue them together will last more than about 30 or 40 years before it starts turning to dry, crumbly dust. I'm not sure what it really was, but probably a Resorcinol-type adhesive. The good thing is that it's rather easy to break them apart with wedges in the seams without tearing any of the wood faying surfaces. The stuff they used just doesn't hold worth a damn at that age. I can't say the same about spars built elsewhere. Some of those have lasted and others haven't. I think the reasonable assumption is that most spars glued up with anything other than epoxy, as far as we now know, are going to have to be broken apart and reglued every few decades. What we don't know is how long the epoxy adhesives are ultimately going to last in that application. So far, they seem to be holding well without any problems, but we didn't start using epoxy widely until the 'seventies so we are only pushing on 50 years out now. Minor delaminations have occurred with epoxy-glued spars, although these appear to be the result of "glue starved" joints and they are easily repaired without having to bust the entire joint apart by simply cleaning out the seam with a hacksaw blade or the like and then injecting epoxy resin with a syringe and clamping it up to cure.
    Last edited by Bob Cleek; 11-07-2018 at 04:51 PM.

  15. #50
    Join Date
    May 1999
    Location
    north queensland
    Posts
    2,648

    Default Re: resorcinol glue...now desperatly seeking supplier

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Y View Post
    Bern I think you said you found a supplier who sells 1000 kg lots. Who do they sell to? Maybe find a customer and have a chat with them. They will be a building materials manufacturer or furniture maker or something. Carton of beer and your good to go.
    Hi Phil
    Jowat is the supplier of 1000kg lots. They did mention a local small business manufacturer whom they sold to and I did contact him. However I need the iron clad assurance of "in date" glue and I did not think it was worth the angst or the insistence to expect a non commercial supplier as such to guarantee the product for me. I could accept their verbal guarantee or the usual "she'll be right mate" attitude but its just not worth the risk.

    Im still waiting on CP Adhesives to get back to me. When and if they do, Ill make a decision.

    Just a note to add to comments above: I don't see the dark reddish glue line of resorcinol in any laminated component as being unsightly. I guess its just personal choice.

  16. #51
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Northern NSW Australia
    Posts
    73,091

    Default Re: resorcinol glue...now desperatly seeking supplier

    Quote Originally Posted by David G View Post
    It is cool in a lot of ways. There are adhesives tailored for more specific tasks. In PVA'S for instance... it's no longer just 'Elmer's'. There's the basic PVA (Elmer's, Titebond original). There's Type 2 (water-resistant - Titebond 2). There's Type 1 (waterproof - Titebond 3). There's a thickened version (for vertical surfaces/no dripping). There's a fast-set. There's slow-set. There a veneering version - thickened and modified to reduce bleed-thru. And there are probably more I'm forgetting. Izza nice. But it does make it harder for the beginner to make informed decisions. And for that my advice is always the same. You don't have to know everything about everything... you just need to find some knowledgeable suppliers that can advise you.

    Regarding the powdered urea formaldehyde adhesives (like Weldwood Plastic Resin Glue)... I have seen them fail, and specifically on spars. I've repaired a number of them where the glue joints have dried out, and the adhesive turned to hard little bits of grit. Some so bad that the varnish and a few fasteners were all that was holding the spar together. All about 40 - 60 years old. Several of them from Cheoy Lee, and other Asian shops, who the marine historians tell me used that adhesive for spars for a long time.
    The mast glue I remember from my boyhood was Selley's 308 Resin, a white powder that was mixed with water.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  17. #52
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Portland, Oregon
    Posts
    50,469

    Default Re: resorcinol glue...now desperatly seeking supplier

    Apparently, Peter, that's similar to the Weldwood Plastic Resin Adhesive. But instead of straight Urea Formaldehyde... it's Melamine modified.

    But I saw one mfgr. comment that said the 308 is no long made? And that they're now recommending one of their epoxies instead...
    David G
    Harbor Woodworks
    https://www.facebook.com/HarborWoodworks/

    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  18. #53
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Northern NSW Australia
    Posts
    73,091

    Default Re: resorcinol glue...now desperatly seeking supplier

    Thanks David.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  19. #54
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Lindstrom, MN
    Posts
    2,240

    Default Re: resorcinol glue...now desperatly seeking supplier

    You might find that an aircraft supply house will have resorcinol and would also understand date codes and the need for control over the age of their stock. There must be some homebuilt aircraft people in Australia who use wood adhesives and can help with sourcing.

    Skyshop looks promising, but I can't tell if they stock or order things from Aircraft Spruce. http://www.aircraftspruce.com.au/wood.asp lists Cascophen, Wedwood resorcinol and Weldwood plastic resin glue. This page is part of the site: SKYSHOP AUSTRALIA PHONE : 1300 301 161 or (07) 3040 0502 Web : www.skyshop.com.au

    The US site for aircraft spruce has more information for example https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catal...clickkey=27210

    This page has good information on resorcinol, but only points to Nightmare, oops, Nightingale, as an Australian source. They even tell you what you already know: "Resorcinol is not readily available in hardware stores and is not well known. It is also pricy and has a relatively short shelf life. There is no doubt that some amateur failures using this glue was because old stock was used."

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterSibley View Post
    I was under the impression that the adhesive used to glue laminated beams for the building industry was either Resorcinol or something very similar.
    It was resorcinal and some of what is used now sounds very similar. It wasn't clear how long ago they shifted to the newer chemistry, but it looks like it has been at least 5-10 years. It is hard to pin down whether there is any retail version of the newer adhesive available. Google failed me.

    One more google hit: http://www.selleys.co.nz/ask_expert/...adhesives/1621 "Selleys 308 Glue is no longer made."
    Last edited by MN Dave; 11-09-2018 at 07:45 PM. Reason: missing link (not me, but close)
    Management is the art of counting beans. Leadership is the art of making every being count. --Joe Finch

  20. #55
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    South Australia and Tasmania
    Posts
    15,748

    Default Re: resorcinol glue...now desperatly seeking supplier

    Let's start a poll. Should Bernadette use resourcinol or epoxy? I'm voting epoxy.

  21. #56
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Northern NSW Australia
    Posts
    73,091

    Default Re: resorcinol glue...now desperatly seeking supplier

    Epoxy with a purple UV blocking filler.
    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

  22. #57
    Join Date
    May 1999
    Location
    north queensland
    Posts
    2,648

    Default Re: resorcinol glue...now desperatly seeking supplier

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Y View Post
    Let's start a poll. Should Bernadette use resourcinol or epoxy? I'm voting epoxy.
    hello Phil, you guys are funny! this makes me laugh.
    Im about to head over to my parents place to water jet the house...but I'll give you the low down and whats transpired and my decision when I get back later today.


  23. #58
    Join Date
    May 1999
    Location
    north queensland
    Posts
    2,648

    Default Re: resorcinol glue...now desperatly seeking supplier

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterSibley View Post
    Epoxy with a purple UV blocking filler.
    Peter, ive never heard of this. I have wondered though if any sort of UV blocking addition was possible.

  24. #59
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Hell
    Posts
    90,259

    Default Re: resorcinol glue...now desperatly seeking supplier

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Y View Post
    Let's start a poll. Should Bernadette use resourcinol or epoxy? I'm voting epoxy.
    epoxy is crap
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

  25. #60
    Join Date
    Jan 2000
    Location
    Portland, Maine
    Posts
    16,837

    Default Re: resorcinol glue...now desperatly seeking supplier

    “Water jet the house” - that must mean power washing it?


    Can you get W/S G/Flex there?

  26. #61
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Rockingham, Western Australia
    Posts
    33

    Default Re: resorcinol glue...now desperatly seeking supplier

    I have a 20L drum of Resobond from MZ3 I bought a couple of years ago. When I bought it I asked about shelf life and they said it doesn't really go off.

    I understand that you don't want to risk it with your spars but maybe you could conduct some tests if you have any old stuff left.

    Maybe someone can explain why it goes off? I wouldn't be surprised if it doesn't, the one year shelf life is just a best practice.

    I will buy some more from MZ3 if that helps them speed up production.

    Also, I have found the glue is pretty easy to use. Sure, you have to clamp the hell out of it but overall it doesn't take much more effort than epoxy. It also cleans up with water.

  27. #62
    Join Date
    Jun 2000
    Location
    Madison Wisconsin
    Posts
    9,070

    Default Re: resorcinol glue...now desperatly seeking supplier

    Uhhhhh..... the only epoxy which is subject to UV degradation is that which is actually physically exposed to UV. UV does not creep down inside a glue line from the edge and destroy the rest of the epoxy in there. Unless your glue lines are huge, you basically have nothing to worry about that normal varnish and maintenance won't take care of. If your glue lines do happen to be huge due to big gaps and a poor fit, then you would probably benefit from the strength of epoxy anyway - but still, UV damage happens to exposed areas, not down in the dark, inside laminations.

  28. #63
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    5,545

    Default Re: resorcinol glue...now desperatly seeking supplier

    I think she's working with her dad, who's been building boats for the last 100 years or so. He may be leaning pretty strongly towards the resorcinol. I'd use epoxy, probably wondering why I wasn't using TIII the whole while.

  29. #64
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Gold Coast Australia
    Posts
    2,512

    Default Re: resorcinol glue...now desperatly seeking supplier

    There are a variety of glues that are much more pleasant to use ,and don’t come with safety instructions that include wearing impervious gloves,safety glasses ,having adequate ventilation, and avoiding skin contact .
    More than likely those old boat builders know a thing or two more than some of us amateurs ,including how to save a buck or two.

  30. #65
    Join Date
    May 1999
    Location
    north queensland
    Posts
    2,648

    Default Re: resorcinol glue...now desperatly seeking supplier

    Quote Originally Posted by auscruisertom View Post
    There are a variety of glues that are much more pleasant to use ,and don’t come with safety instructions that include wearing impervious gloves,safety glasses ,having adequate ventilation, and avoiding skin contact .
    More than likely those old boat builders know a thing or two more than some of us amateurs ,including how to save a buck or two.
    never ever worn any protection using resorcinol. when mixing in the hardener you just literally hold your breath...i'm serious. it will make you cough and struggle for air if you breath while decanting the powder.

    I just dont see what all the fuss is about with resorcinol. Its easy to use. even in the tropics, we manage to get the laminations clamped and tightened up in good time.

    ive had the glue all over my hands and drips down the arms and legs but it washes off and what dries on the skin can be scrubbed off with solvol soap.

  31. #66
    Join Date
    May 1999
    Location
    north queensland
    Posts
    2,648

    Default Re: resorcinol glue...now desperatly seeking supplier

    Quote Originally Posted by Gib Etheridge View Post
    I think she's working with her dad, who's been building boats for the last 100 years or so. He may be leaning pretty strongly towards the resorcinol. I'd use epoxy, probably wondering why I wasn't using TIII the whole while.
    Dad has been using resorcinol since whenever.... well, probably since about 1956 onwards....

    More to the point though, he has seen the changing face of trying to continue with traditional boatbuilding practices here in Australia and the difficulty this entails. This I especially so when the number of people working on or building timber boats is a fraction of the entire 'boating scene' and when newer methods and new ideas permeate the thinking and become the status quo. Still, even he is open to new ideas and a realist...

    Gib, what does TIII stand for?

  32. #67
    Join Date
    May 1999
    Location
    north queensland
    Posts
    2,648

    Default Re: resorcinol glue...now desperatly seeking supplier

    Quote Originally Posted by kforth View Post
    I have a 20L drum of Resobond from MZ3 I bought a couple of years ago. When I bought it I asked about shelf life and they said it doesn't really go off.

    I understand that you don't want to risk it with your spars but maybe you could conduct some tests if you have any old stuff left.

    Maybe someone can explain why it goes off? I wouldn't be surprised if it doesn't, the one year shelf life is just a best practice.

    I will buy some more from MZ3 if that helps them speed up production.

    Also, I have found the glue is pretty easy to use. Sure, you have to clamp the hell out of it but overall it doesn't take much more effort than epoxy. It also cleans up with water.

    The glue does have a shelf life just like any other chemical including epoxy.
    Ours from MZ3 is just on 4 years old and has been sitting in the shed (not temperature controlled) here in the tropics so its been subjected to high temperatures in the range of 30 to 38 deg C.
    We did a test piece recently and it failed to our requirements.

  33. #68
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    5,545

    Default Re: resorcinol glue...now desperatly seeking supplier

    TIII is Titebond 3. It's stronger than epoxy, water proof, not affected by UV, water cleanup and cheaper. The trouble is that some say it creeps. I did my very best to make it creep over several months under radically hot, cold, wet and dry conditions and it didn't move one micron, but some insist that it will, or at least that it can. Maybe my joinery was too good, there wasn't enough glue in the glue line to move.

    Also there have been many smaller masts made with it that have performed just fine, but I don't know of it's having been proven on a 40 foot mast.
    Titebond III Ultimate Titebond III Ultimate is the most advanced wood glue available today. While all Titebond products provide superior performance, Titebond III is especially useful for outdoor applications in cooler temperatures or when concern for substantial moisture calls for the use of a Type I glue (USA boil test).

  34. #69
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    5,545

    Default Re: resorcinol glue...now desperatly seeking supplier

    I should point out though that TIII has a pretty short assembly time. One would need helpers and a practice dry fit. It would help to lay up a mast in stages.

    Also, it is not at all gap filling.

    Just found this, it's worth a read...

    http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...irdsmouth-spar

    Also this...

    https://www.jamestowndistributors.co...ct.do?pid=2030
    Last edited by Gib Etheridge; 11-10-2018 at 02:04 AM.

  35. #70
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Northern NSW Australia
    Posts
    73,091

    Default Re: resorcinol glue...now desperatly seeking supplier

    '' You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know. ''
    Grateful Dead

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •