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Thread: converting daggerboard to keel questions

  1. #1
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    Default converting daggerboard to keel questions

    I'm finishing up an elfyn by Iain. It is a 16'6" dinghy based on a Norwegian faering. In the sailing plans, it includes a daggerboard with about 265 square inches (approx 2' x 11" below the water). I'm trying to keep a very traditional look to the project and was thinking about forgoing the daggerboard. I had thought to replace it with an additional keel depth of about 7'x3", which should keep the lateral area about the same. The daggerboard is not weighted in the plans.
    I know that the traditional faerings tended to have a similar extra keel piece added.

    Anyone have thoughts on if this would be a reasonable conversion? What kind of performance hit am I going to take under sail or oars?

  2. #2
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    Default Re: converting daggerboard to keel questions

    You'll lose windward ability, but otherwise is a plus in every column. No drag from the turbulence around the slot, less weight in the boat overall, one less place for rot and leaks to develop. Even more room to sit on the floorboards. Windward ability is highly overrated, by the way. We sailed this traditional 18' shallop all over the place, downwind, off wind and even upwind, and had a ball doing it. And it has no centerboard or daggerboard. The keel stands maybe 4" proud of the planking.

    St Michaels 07.jpg
    -Dave

  3. #3
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    Default Re: converting daggerboard to keel questions

    Look at the racing Oselvers that Lagspiller is used to.
    My Peerie Maa is less of a guide as she has hollow garboards, so to be equivalent to her, you would neeg more keel.
    straps 012.jpg

    However Oselvers seem to manage OK without much keel

    They are unrigging on the hard at the end of the video.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  4. #4
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    Default Re: converting daggerboard to keel questions

    It has about a 3” keel already from the design. I would be adding another 3 for about 7’ about amidships. Maybe I’ll sail it a bit then come back and see.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: converting daggerboard to keel questions

    Quote Originally Posted by lebrown87 View Post
    It has about a 3” keel already from the design. I would be adding another 3 for about 7’ about amidships. Maybe I’ll sail it a bit then come back and see.
    6 or 7 inch deep sounds good. It will also allow you to deepen the rudder. You can always trim it back later. Peerie Maa has an inch thick hard wood wear shoe. Fit one of those and you can iesily experiment to your heats content.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  6. #6
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    Default Re: converting daggerboard to keel questions

    Tacking will be significantly harder of course, but you already knew that. Carry a short paddle or have your oars on the gunwales to fix that problem. It will track like it's on rails when rowing, which can be very nice in quartering seas and crosswinds.

    As for 7' keel height admidships, I'd be tempted to prop the boat up on a 2x10 trimmed to 7" and see how she leans over when beached. You might find that height excessive, limiting beaching for dryshod exits in shallow waters, and causing the boat to lean over at an uncomfortable (dangerous for elderly crew) angle for boarding / reboarding when beached.

    As mentioned above you can build it that height and always trim it back if you don't like the results. I'd do some sailing and testing before adding any sort of metal protection for the keel.
    Last edited by Thorne; 10-29-2018 at 12:44 PM.
    "The enemies of reason have a certain blind look."
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  7. #7
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    Default Re: converting daggerboard to keel questions

    4BD45E32-BE0A-4E81-8809-D9D344608A6D.gif

    http://www.selway-fisher.com/DoubleEs.htm#KAR

    Here is Paul Fisher’s take on it. Maybe the shallower keel fore helps tacking?
    "Yeah, well, that's just, like your opinion man"
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  8. #8
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    Default Re: converting daggerboard to keel questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Thorne View Post
    Tacking will be significantly harder of course, but you already knew that. Carry a short paddle or have your oars on the gunwales to fix that problem. It will track like it's on rails when rowing, which can be very nice in quartering seas and crosswinds.
    Peerie Maa has to have her jib aback to push her nose through the wind. Not at all dificult if you can add one to the existing rig.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  9. #9
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    Default Re: converting daggerboard to keel questions

    Why degrade your windward performance.
    With all due respect to the others, I've seen guy sailing back an forth trying to tack up wind, and never go anywhere.
    If you have trouble with tacking also, you could get blown back and loose some of your windward progress each tack.

    Good windward ability makes sailing a joy.

    Or always start out upwind, so that its easy to get back to the launch, rather than making minimal progress and taking a lot longer if you started out going downwind.

    Just my 2cents.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: converting daggerboard to keel questions

    There's a lot to be learned sailing without the "modern" conveniences. Boats for most of human history didn't have daggerboards or centerboards. The Elfyn could probably carry a single leeboard to be dropped over the side when it was really needed. But I'll bet with some practice without it, the board wouldn't be needed much at all.
    -Dave

  11. #11
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    Default Re: converting daggerboard to keel questions

    Another similar one to study. The word was that it was pretty heavy to row, but the big block of lead in the keel probably caused a great deal of that.

    http://www.atkinboatplans.com/Sail/Valgerda.html


  12. #12
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    Default Re: converting daggerboard to keel questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Todd Bradshaw View Post
    Another similar one to study. The word was that it was pretty heavy to row, but the big block of lead in the keel probably caused a great deal of that.

    http://www.atkinboatplans.com/Sail/Valgerda.html

    I've sailed this one.
    An incredible disappointment...
    Last edited by Canoeyawl; 10-29-2018 at 10:22 PM.

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