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Thread: Crown M47S Head Gasket....

  1. #36
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    Default Re: Crown M47S Head Gasket....

    BillP,
    I think I've got it covered for engine removal and boat rollover....I have two of the red pulleys along with some chain hoists...I met a guy here in Eagle River and he, his father and grandfather owned a Century dealership in Fox Lake, IL. for many years and he told me how they rolled boats over with pulleys and 3/4" rope..IMG_3939.jpgIMG_3936.jpg

    and of course beer for the helpers...
    IMG_3937.jpg Mike
    Last edited by erstadmr0355; 11-01-2018 at 06:43 AM.

  2. #37
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    Default Re: Crown M47S Head Gasket....

    Well, if you are going to roll the boat over, just unbolt the engine and it will fall right out

  3. #38
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    Sep 2011
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    Eagle River, Wisconsin
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    Default Re: Crown M47S Head Gasket....

    Today I received my Gasket Kit for my engine and holly cow are there the gaskets....and it even has a metal ring with rubber seal ...not sure if it's for the transmission or not....what do you think?

    Photo on 11-2-18 at 12.56 PM.jpg
    Also picked up a used Valve Spring Spreader on eBay and hope it'll work with my engine...
    Photo on 11-2-18 at 12.45 PM.jpg
    Thanks for taking a look,
    Mike
    Eagle River, Wisconsin

  4. #39
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    Default Re: Crown M47S Head Gasket....

    Crankshaft seal...


  5. #40
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    Default Re: Crown M47S Head Gasket....

    Quote Originally Posted by Canoeyawl View Post
    Crankshaft seal...
    Nailed it!
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

  6. #41
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    Default Re: Crown M47S Head Gasket....

    Orrrrr,........... might be the coupling seal at the back end of the reverse gear.

  7. #42
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    Default Re: Crown M47S Head Gasket....

    Yes,... Iím thinking coupling seal (101) here
    Attached Images Attached Images

  8. #43
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    Default Re: Crown M47S Head Gasket....

    Here is the crank seal.

  9. #44
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    Aug 2018
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    Boise, ID, USA
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    Default Re: Crown M47S Head Gasket....

    It is the front crankshaft seal. Transmission and drivetrain seals are not included in engine gasket sets. There are to many drive combinations to include them with an engine.

  10. #45
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    Sep 2011
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    Eagle River, Wisconsin
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    Default Re: Crown M47S Head Gasket....

    Received the head back after resurfacing....threw on a little blue paint too pretty it up...
    IMG_3944.jpg

    IMG_3948.jpg

    And a little paint on part of the cooling apparatus!
    IMG_3950.jpg

    and the boat's in the workshop for the coming winter...it was a tight fit and got the wife mad a me a little.
    IMG_3951.jpg

    Thank You All.... I don't know what I'd do with out the people here at the Wooden Boat Form...
    Mike
    Eagle River, Wisconsin
    Last edited by erstadmr0355; 11-03-2018 at 05:11 PM.

  11. #46
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    Default Re: Crown M47S Head Gasket....

    Whazzat?

    IMG_4319.JPG

  12. #47
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    Default Re: Crown M47S Head Gasket....

    Photoshop?

  13. #48
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    Default Re: Crown M47S Head Gasket....

    Holly Crap... I didn't notice that.....looks to me that someone stripped the threads out
    and repaired it by putting in an insert...there's gotta be a name for that...

    More pic's...
    IMG_3952.jpg
    IMG_3953.jpg
    IMG_3954.jpg
    Do I need to grind that down???

    Mike
    Eagle River, Wisconsin

  14. #49
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    Default Re: Crown M47S Head Gasket....

    It's a helicoil (most likely).

    Maybe Jake has (better) thoughts, but I'd be hesitant to grind it down, as it could disturb how it's held in.
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

  15. #50
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    Boise, ID, USA
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    Default Re: Crown M47S Head Gasket....

    If it ain't broke don't fix it. I would leave it alone that shoulder probably helps seal the insert threads.

  16. #51
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    Default Re: Crown M47S Head Gasket....

    Ok, I never saw it!

  17. #52
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    Default Re: Crown M47S Head Gasket....

    It is a common repair, check it out before you do anything. Put the spark plug in that is called for and observe how much of the insert is protruding in the head beyond the end of the spark plug threads.
    Determine if the (correct) spark plug threads are even engaging with those excess female threads in the combustion chamber and determine which side of the insert has the shoulder. Usually these are installed in-situ from the outside in, which is likely why the excess was not ground off. There should be no downside to removing the excess material. Except...
    *Note if the spark plug male threads protrude beyond the female threads into the combustion chamber there is a risk that carbon deposits on the plug threads will back out the insert when the spark plug is removed. (The old timers that changed spark plugs on a VW bug know all about this!)

  18. #53
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    Default Re: Crown M47S Head Gasket....

    So I installed and tightened down two spark plugs and took pictures...

    IMG_3958.jpg
    Upper photo without Heli-coil
    Lower photo with Heli-coil

    IMG_3959.jpgYou can see the Heli-coil surrounds the part of the spark plug...
    Nothing to worry about or ???

    Mike
    Eagle River, Wisconsin

  19. #54
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    Default Re: Crown M47S Head Gasket....

    "If it was mine, I would cut off the excess"

    Do it with a sacrificial spark plug in place, I would use a hand held die grinder.
    (It is not a "heli-coil")

  20. #55
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    Default Re: Crown M47S Head Gasket....

    Could that be a "nutsert" instead of a heli-coil ?

  21. #56
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    Default Re: Crown M47S Head Gasket....

    Quote Originally Posted by Canoeyawl View Post
    "If it was mine, I would cut off the excess"

    Do it with a sacrificial spark plug in place, I would use a hand held die grinder.
    (It is not a "heli-coil")
    Good point on its not being a helicoil - looks more line a simple insert - which should be less of an issue to cut off (& I like the idea od doing so with an old plug inserted). I note that the plug in the cylinder with the insert is well inside it- so I'll guess that that cylinder will not fire quite as efficiently as the others.
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

  22. #57
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    Default Re: Crown M47S Head Gasket....

    Probably this...
    http://www.timesert.com/


  23. #58
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    Default Re: Crown M47S Head Gasket....

    Lol............ I have to do exactly that to one of my cylinders this winter.

  24. #59
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    Default Re: Crown M47S Head Gasket....

    Quote Originally Posted by Canoeyawl View Post
    Probably this...
    http://www.timesert.com/

    If it is one of these, grinding the protruding part off might not be a smart idea. From the link:
    TIME-SERTģ is self locking. On installation the bottom internal threads of the insert are cold rolled to expand the mating external threads into the base material locking the insert in place. Locking mechanism is at the bottom of insert.


    Pete
    Don't underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers!

  25. #60
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    Default Re: Crown M47S Head Gasket....

    I suspect that insert is a bit too long for the exact application.
    It may not influence the way the engine runs at all.
    I'm just thinking "I" would whittle it down some.

    (That "type" of insert has been around for a long time, it may not be that exact brand name, probably not in fact. Lisle is a common one, they have been around since the Model T Ford. The inserts come in discrete lengths, starting at 5/16" I have installed plenty of them.
    here's another...
    https://www.amazon.com/OEMTOOLS-2564.../dp/B000CMHL1C

  26. #61
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    Default Re: Crown M47S Head Gasket....

    I contacted Time-Sert (not that I can tell if I actually have one made by Time-Sert) and there comments are below..... I suppose I could try to take it out and install the correct length insert and be done with it....It sounds like the way that this insert in made is that the bottom threads is what's supposed to keep the darn thing in... I have already cranked a new spark plug into it and removed it without any problem....I guess if after I cut off the excess, and the insert comes out, I'll purchase and install a new one of correct length...
    Mike
    Eagle River, Wisconsin

    Hello,
    Normally you get the insert that matches your thread length of your spark
    plug not a longer length.
    It is better to use the correct length insert but if you already have it
    installed it would be up to you if you want to cut it off.

    What kit and insert p/n did you use.

    Best Regards,
    Time-Sert

  27. #62
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    Mar 2001
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    FL
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    Default Re: Crown M47S Head Gasket....

    It appears the engine has been running with the insert so this says piston clearance is aok. Also, those insert threads exposed in the combustion chamber won't unscrew or loosen as easy as flush threads if you get a stuck plug. The only thing it will do sticking out like that is help prevent spark plug fouling from worn parts. Otherwise you won't know the difference. It's not an issue and I'd spend time fixing stuff that really needs repair.

  28. #63
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    Los Angeles CA USA
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    Default Re: Crown M47S Head Gasket....

    Quote Originally Posted by BillP View Post
    The only thing it will do sticking out like that is help prevent spark plug fouling from worn parts.
    Or get red-hot and create preignition / detonation. Small sections and sharp corners in a combustion chamber are a bad idea. I would fix it.

  29. #64
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    Sep 2011
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    Default Re: Crown M47S Head Gasket....

    I used a little air cut-off tool and ground that raised edge off.... see picture...
    Before:
    IMG_3959.jpg
    After:
    IMG_3961.jpg

  30. #65
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    Sep 2011
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    Eagle River, Wisconsin
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    Default Re: Crown M47S Head Gasket....

    Ok, today I removed my dual carburetors and set them aside...I have gasket kits ordered from The Carburetor Shop and they should be here in 4 weeks or less I hope:
    On the Engine:
    IMG_3964.jpg
    Off the Engine:
    IMG_3968.jpg

    I also pulled the Manifold off today.....Somewhere along the line this engine sucked in acorn's and other unintelligible things...
    Gaskets all came off nicely....
    IMG_3979.jpg
    Yes, that's the shell of an acorn in there....
    IMG_3977.jpg
    Of course, you have to take off other things to get the manifold off...otherwise you can't get at some nuts...
    IMG_3980.jpg

    Time for a Cocktail....

    Mike
    Eagle River, Wisconsin

  31. #66
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    Dec 2016
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    Old Greenwich, CT, USA
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    Default Re: Crown M47S Head Gasket....

    Good job grinding off the nut-sert. I’m guessing mice decided the inlet manifold was a good winter home!
    Simon

  32. #67
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    Default Re: Crown M47S Head Gasket....

    Looks good! I'm glad to see you corrected that.

    (Fwiw - on an L-head engine (flathead) the combustion chamber and spark plug are always over the valves, there are no worries about hitting the piston. The concern is pre-ignition)

    Now would be a good time to start introducing (liberally) some light oil/solvent mix around the pistons to soften any ancient carbon deposits located behind the piston rings. Maybe a mix of ATF and diesel, mineral spirits or similar and rotate the engine a bit, then repeat daily for a while. Just let it run by into the crankcase and change the oil before your first start-up.
    For several reasons I like the atf part of that recipe, it is a good light weight hydraulic lubricating oil without any water emulsifiers or other additives designed to combat combustion gases. (Most of the patent remedies, marvel mystery oil etc. are hokum, I think)

  33. #68
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    Concord, NH, USA
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    Default Re: Crown M47S Head Gasket....

    Hi Mike,

    Looks like you're making good progress! I dropped my Crown off at the machine shop in Hollis, Maine last Thursday. The guy was just finishing up a 1947 Jeep engine and had a Chrysler Ace in line ahead of mine.

    20181101_121524.jpg

    We lifted it out with a small loader and chain using the lift ring and mounted it on a palette. How are you planning to lift the block out of the hull without the lift ring on top? Wouldn't it make sense to get the engine out of the boat in one piece rather than disassembling it first? I imagine it will be pretty awkward to move otherwise (it weighs a $#°Ó-ton!). Anyway, that's how we did it. It's the only engine I've ever moved, though.

    Best,
    Jeff

  34. #69
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    Default Re: Crown M47S Head Gasket....

    Quote Originally Posted by on the border View Post
    Or get red-hot and create preignition / detonation. Small sections and sharp corners in a combustion chamber are a bad idea. I would fix it.
    Non fouler inserts protrude and look exactly like this and don't make hot spots or preignition. I've used them and they are used everywhere without problems. No theory.

  35. #70
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    Eagle River, Wisconsin
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    Default Re: Crown M47S Head Gasket....

    Jeff,
    Whether or not I get this engine running, I need to pull it out...I was thinking that I’d throw on the old gasket and snug the head back down, along with the lift ring...See photo below, I’ll be lifting the engine out using a 2000 lb. chain hoist and a microlam beam...

    Looking back, I guess I'm at this point with the engine because I was hoping to get it started to decide if it needed a rebuild....with no compression in cylinder #1 I pulled the head to see if the valve was stuck and it was...so since the head was off I want to pull the valves to clean and lap before reinstalling the head. Pulling and rebuilding the carbs is something I can do during the winter... If the engine hours are correct I'm expecting this engine to run pretty well (fingers crossed). The hour meter reads 488 hours so that's maybe one third it's life...
    Mike

    IMG_3951.jpg
    Last edited by erstadmr0355; 11-06-2018 at 10:44 AM.

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