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Thread: Advice on restoring interior of strip built boat

  1. #1
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    Default Advice on restoring interior of strip built boat

    Hi this is my first post on this forum.
    I have a 16ft double ended strip built Gaff rigged cutter called Gypsy. She is on a trailer and has been out of the water for 5 plus years. I just got her back in the water and she is taking on some water. She has been glassed on the outside of the hull and I an sanding back and re glassing where needed. A boat builder suggested I Everdure the inside. I know this is a contentious issue but I have started stripping back the paintwork inside. My question is about what to do about the seams which look to be pitch and have opened up in places 2mm. They are also filled with paint in places and the boat builder said just Everdure over them. The conscientious side of me wants to clean out the seams and fill with sika flex prior to everdure. Asking he any one out there has been through a similar process and what was the learning. I'll try to add some photos. Thanks.
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  2. #2
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    Default Re: Advice on restoring interior of strip built boat

    Hi,

    are the "Strips" nailed together? If yes, don´t hurt them. I´d glass the outside only. Strip the old glass first. Maybe it´s not epxoy, just polyester resin ...

    P.S. NICE BOAT looks like a gartside design?

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Advice on restoring interior of strip built boat

    Strip plank construction is glued not caulked, so leaks are bad.
    Do you keep her on the trailer and launch for use?
    I'm assuming single layer of timber with my advice.
    Some glue joints may have cracked with drying out of the water for so long (more likely for moored boats), or hull flexing, or from trailer/impact damage.
    I would track down where she is leaking and mark where they are.
    Then take her out of the water.
    The glue cracks that are leaking will probably show up as wet spots after the rest of the hull has dried out.
    Grind the glass off the outside, then use a multitool to chase the crack into the joint.
    Chasing the crack on the inside as well will get most of the way through the hull. Don't be timid.
    Then smoosh epoxy thickened with glue powder to peanut butter consistency into the gap from both sides.
    Then fibreglass over the outside after feathering the edge of the old glass.
    Sand and paint the outside again.
    The inside is your choice whether you coat it with everdure, or neat epoxy.
    I would fibreglass the area inside with cloth if you think the crack has been caused by flexing of the hull.

    How old is the boat?

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Advice on restoring interior of strip built boat

    Yes, How old is the boat?
    What exactly is in the seams now? (pitch... ?wtf)
    Are the planks square or that ridiculous cove and bead ?
    What is "everdure", it's an un known word to me (American).
    Is the boat in fact, strip built or strip planked? This is a nomenclature problem sometimes.
    bruce

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Advice on restoring interior of strip built boat

    It looks like she was strip planked – that is (probably) square edge strip planking, usually edge glued but not edge nailed. The planks fastened (and glued??) to the frames and other transverses. But there does seem from the photos to be black stuff between the planks on the inside – which is odd. Pitch seems a little unlikely however.

    A lot depends on the construction. Are the frames quite close or widely spaced. If close, then there is likely no structural need for the strips to be edge glued. If widely spaced, the the strips should be edge glued or fastened to form a more monocoque structure. If it is the latter and the strips either weren't glued/nailed originally, or the glue has failed, then the hull is probably working under load and thus leaking. Simple woven glass cloth over the outside won't prevent this as it lends little structural strength. For that you need biaxial type cloth of reasonable weight, set in epoxy.

    There are several repair schemes that come to mind - but absolutely the first thing to do is to try to establish how the hull is put together and to what extent that has failed. Also have a check on the strip plank fastenings into the frames and transverses.

    Then you can plan a repair scheme.

    Cheers -- George
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  6. #6
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    Default Re: Advice on restoring interior of strip built boat

    Quote Originally Posted by wizbang 13 View Post
    Yes, How old is the boat?
    What exactly is in the seams now? (pitch... ?wtf)
    Are the planks square or that ridiculous cove and bead ?
    What is "everdure", it's an un known word to me (American).
    Is the boat in fact, strip built or strip planked? This is a nomenclature problem sometimes.
    bruce
    Bruce - Everdure is an International Paints two-pack epoxy primer.

    Cheers -- George
    To be truly free to live, one must be free to think and speak.

    A C Grayling

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Advice on restoring interior of strip built boat

    Thanks George.

    My strip planked boat is stored on concrete 6 months a year in Antigua,indoors as well.
    She gets hairline cracks in the epoxy joints regularly. This is not alarming or tricky to repair.
    I run a skilsaw kerf down the crack, one third the plank depth (to avoid hitting the vertical nails),and knife in thickened epoxy.

    Keep in mind, my boat has square planks.This would be a pita with the cove n bead style planking.
    Sika flex is not correct for a glued boat, we do not have to worry about the boat "exploding" from hull pressure as a carvel boat might.
    My boat is not sheathed, epoxy resin only.
    We do not know very much about your boats construction yet,so, this just food for thought.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Advice on restoring interior of strip built boat

    Thanks to every one who has replied. Some very helpful ideas and I will answer the questions.
    1. There are no nails that I can see holding the strips together. I don't plan on putting any glass fibre inside. I don't know if she is a Gartside and have looked at his plans but can't find her exactly. The closest boat I have seen to her is a Sea Otter built by David Moss in the UK.
    2. She is kept on her trailer and has a single layer of timber. There are no cracks in the timber, just the seams, inside. I am reluctant to patch inside for aesthetic seasons. Built in 1996.
    3. I am not sure what is between the seams. It is black but not soft and cracks into shards when scraped. I am assuming the planks are square.
    4. The frames are widely spaced and there aren't many. It's a biaxial cloth on the outside but not sure he was done with polyester or epoxy. Is there a way to find out? Will this matter if I use epoxy? The strip plank fastening to the frames seem very secure and look glued.

    From the replies so far it seems that I need to focus on the glass on the outside to seal the hull. Inside I should use some sort of glue to fill the open seams. Would 3m 5200 or sika flex 291i be the right sort of thing or does it matter? If the waterproofing and strength is provided by the biaxial cloth on the outside, can I just coat the inside in an everdure type product letting it run into the cracks?
    Cheers

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Advice on restoring interior of strip built boat

    I suspect that what you’re seeing is resorcinol glue, not pitch, and the timber looks like it may be kauri....?

    My huon pine strip planked hull from 1967 has had a number of failed resorcinol glue lines and my repair was to strip the paint back to bare wood (not a glassed over hull), saw a straight line along the failed glue lines to remove the old and provide a clean edge and glue in a spline of the same timber.

    Mine splines are also copper nailed down from one spline into the next so I had to cut through a number of copper nails in the process.

    IMG_1125.jpg

    IMG_1129.jpg

    IMG_1131.jpg
    Last edited by Larks; 11-13-2019 at 03:28 PM.
    Larks

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  10. #10
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    Default Re: Advice on restoring interior of strip built boat

    A simple "scratch n sniff"can tell the difference between polyester and epoxy.
    Epoxy has very little odor, the former stink bad man.
    Any work done on a boat as this should be done with epoxy, even if she is originally sheathed in poly.
    I'd try to just stop the leaks, and not worry too much about the seams on the inside.
    Consider , if the planks get wet, then dry , over and over, it's not a good thing. It becomes a sort of chain reaction, it gets worse and worse.
    I might flood the open inside seams with CPES, after the leaks are fixed and the boat is dry, so that she will not adsorb water from the inside.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Advice on restoring interior of strip built boat

    As an aside - I would not use sikaflex in seams, experience in Queensland at least has shown that any of the sikaflex seam products have dried out and hardened within a couple of years (I think because it is a solvent based product). If you must find a seam filling product I’d suggest Fixtech. I’m using Fixtech 190 for my keel to garboard join.

    Bye the way - nice boat!!!
    Larks

    “It’s impossible”, said pride.
    “It’s risky”, said experience.
    “It’s pointless”, said reason.
    “Give it a try”, whispered the heart.

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  12. #12
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    Default Re: Advice on restoring interior of strip built boat

    Thanks. I think it's epoxy on the outside and I have been working underneath the boat today. Thinking I'll stay away from sika flex. Someone suggested mixing epoxy with glue powder and I'm thinking epoxy in these cracks but not sure how to stop it dripping out as I don't want to cut all the way through the hull. I do have some Norski epoxy filler.
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  13. #13
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    Default Re: Advice on restoring interior of strip built boat

    Quote Originally Posted by Sigøyner View Post
    Thanks. I think it's epoxy on the outside and I have been working underneath the boat today. Thinking I'll stay away from sika flex. Someone suggested mixing epoxy with glue powder and I'm thinking epoxy in these cracks but not sure how to stop it dripping out as I don't want to cut all the way through the hull. I do have some Norski epoxy filler.
    I think that "glue powder" is colloidal silica or similar powdered thickener. Peanut butter consistency filled epoxy can form fillets and otherwise stay where you put it.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  14. #14
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    Default Re: Advice on restoring interior of strip built boat

    It seems that you are not familiar with general epoxy methods. This link is to a reference that you might find useful. https://www.westsystem.com/wp-conten...k-061205-1.pdf
    Steamboat

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  15. #15
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    Default Re: Advice on restoring interior of strip built boat

    That doesn't look much like biaxial cloth – looks more like a woven cloth – perhaps "mock leno" or similar. Biaxial cloth is two layers of rovings stitched together at 90º to each other. It usually comes in two varieties 45º/45º and 0º/90º. On a strip planked hull it would normally be laid so the rovings were running diagonally - thus providing diagonal bracing to the longitudinal strips. Sometime biaxial also has a chopped strand matt layer sewn on as a backing.

    Woven cloth by contrast has a single layer of rovings woven together in a warp and weft style - like ordinary fabric in fact. Because the rovings cross over and under each other, the cloth is less strong (compare the loss of strength in a rope when a knot is tied in it), and because there is only basically one layer, it is usually lighter weight and only adds a quite modest amount of strength, and very little diagonal bracing.

    Cheers -- George
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  16. #16
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    Default Re: Advice on restoring interior of strip built boat

    If you thicken the epoxy enough it'll stay put - just keep adding thickening stuff till it stands up on its own.
    Before you mix it, I would brush on some of the unthickened epoxy into the join first to soak the wood - then thicken the rest and stick it in.

    I CPES/Everdure everything. I'd everdure those cracks and bare patches before i filled the holes. Thats just me.
    After filling and sanding, I'd prime with 2 pack epoxy paint inside and out, and then antifoul outside, an enamel paint inside.

    But, if you don't have everdure, and can't be bothered buying some just for those little jobs, thin epoxy would do. I'd recommend an owner of an epoxied boat should keep a supply of everdure. I always have a supply of everdure handy - did i mention i everdure everything?

    Lovely boat.
    It's all fun and games until Darth Vader comes.

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Advice on restoring interior of strip built boat

    Thanks for all the advice. I have now sanded back inside and outside. Cleaned out the cracks outside and opened them up a bit. I everdured the inside and can now see where it has run all the way through the hull. I had a practice with mixing up an epoxy glue with some filler and the next stage will be to get that in the cracks outside the hull before glassing. I will pretreat the cracks with a bit of everdure first though. Just been to see the Turia 250 celebrations in Picton today. Some square rigged ships coming in to our local harbour. The replica Endevour and the Spirit of New Zealand. Inspiring.

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Advice on restoring interior of strip built boat

    Lovely boat!
    Do you have the posibility to turn it upside down?
    Working and glassing on the hull would be much easier and more pleasant with gravity on your side ;-)
    If you dont have much experience with glass and epoxy you might do some test samples to get to know that stuff.
    I second with Steamboat that the west system manuals are supercool and the thing to read first.

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Advice on restoring interior of strip built boat

    Quote Originally Posted by Steamboat View Post
    It seems that you are not familiar with general epoxy methods. This link is to a reference that you might find useful. https://www.westsystem.com/wp-conten...k-061205-1.pdf
    Definitely should be read soon.
    David G
    Harbor Woodworks
    https://www.facebook.com/HarborWoodworks/

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