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Thread: Project unknown

  1. #1
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    Default Project unknown

    Hello!

    Been lurking for a while, love the place and its very inspirational to see what all mad people are doing around here. Boats, for sure seems to be a money hole..

    But then the other day I came across a free wood sailboat Just one look got me pretty exited, just seen pictures I love her shapes and decided to contact the owner. Im really not setup for a projcect this size or have the funds that is needed in the long run. but some times you don't think straight. Anyway I thought it probly would be located too far away for me to even think of transportation and other miscellaneous things that would set stop for my ideas/dreams. But unfortunately I found out she is standing one ferry ride and 20min driving away from me... So now im going to check her out this weekend.
    Th current owner said its a major project, mahogany, need atleast 10 planks changed, 8 ribs, deck and cockpit... haha, seems like a lot of work. I would love to find out more of the design and builder. The guy told me its 1959 Japanese small boatbuilding family that built around 200 boats. I have yet to find any info. Maybe anyone here knows more about this hull shape or builder?

    Here she is

    front.jpg
    side.jpg

    starboardback.jpg

    /Oscar

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Project unknown

    Wow. No. I don't want to dampen anyone's enthusiasm and I'm all for taking on hopeless restorations but Oscar, do not go look at that boat. Don't even think about that boat. There is zero chance that any part of that boat will ever see water again. She doesn't need "a few planks and frames". She's dead. For starters she's so badly hogged that the stern counter must have dropped by six inches. You will never get her shape back.

    There must be twenty other boats in B.C. right now that would be better candidates for restoration than that one. Pick one of those instead.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Project unknown

    Quote Originally Posted by cstevens View Post
    Wow. No. I don't want to dampen anyone's enthusiasm and I'm all for taking on hopeless restorations but Oscar, do not go look at that boat. Don't even think about that boat. There is zero chance that any part of that boat will ever see water again. She doesn't need "a few planks and frames". She's dead. For starters she's so badly hogged that the stern counter must have dropped by six inches. You will never get her shape back.

    There must be twenty other boats in B.C. right now that would be better candidates for restoration than that one. Pick one of those instead.
    Hehe as I thought, been looking at the pictures, and you can see how she dips in both ends, that is probably because the way she is proppep up.
    The stem looks pretty bad, and would probably be a pain to replace and so on. Maybe I could just salvage some wood tho. free stuff..
    Oh well, this is the first find and I haven't been looking for very long. Could anyone tell me what type of boat she is? or designs similar. she is 25 ft

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Project unknown

    Ouch,... yes she is in sad shape. She would be a tough and complete rebuild. She has lost her shape in a number of ways. She has been sitting there so long the props along her sides are actually pushing her shear up.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Project unknown

    I couldn't tell you what she is although I'm sure there are people on the forum who could identify her. But there are no shortage of small cruising sailboat designs somewhat similar to that. Folkboat, Ostkust, Blanchard Senior, Malabar Jr., H28, etc. In fact...

    https://seattle.craigslist.org/see/b...707035766.html

    Ok it's not free. But it's really, really cheap, it looks pretty much ready to go, and after everything is done it would be approximately $100,000 less expensive than rebuilding that project boat you were thinking of looking at.

    Sadly, small wooden sailboats aren't worth anything at all. You can find examples like that one on craigslist pretty much any time you look.
    Last edited by cstevens; 10-11-2018 at 05:52 PM.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Project unknown

    Right now that is not a boat, it's a ballast keel, two or possibly four portlights and some wooden patterns. If you always dreamed to build a boat like that than this would be a head start. In theory you can prop her back up to shape and use it as a female mold for laminating frames, take patterns for stem, stern, keel, floors, deckbeams, etc. Than you start building the new boat alongside. Once in a while you could even find a reusable piece of wood on the old boat.

    If your dream is sailing a boat like that just buy one ready to go. You can't build one cheaper.

    If it's about the building then having a cast ballast keel and all the patterns made saves you some time. But don't think for a minute this is done by changing some planks and sistering some ribs, this is a full rebuild, not a repair. Basicly instead of spending money for plans you spend it on hauling her home and getting a ballast keel and some pieces of hardware.

    First thing would be to see if she can survive a trip on the road. Then if you have a place where she can stay for free it's a case of deciding if you want to build a new boat of that pattern.

    Worst thing that can happen is that her scrap value does not cover the amount spent on hauling her home and breaking her up. How much is scrap iron and firewood worth in your neck of the woods?

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Project unknown

    You guys are seeing this all wrong. That reverse sheer is intentional. Like a thunderbird.
    -Jim

    Sucker for a pretty face.
    1934 27' Blanchard Cuiser ~ Amazon, Ex. Emalu
    19'6" Caledonia Yawl ~ Sparrow

    Getting into trouble one board at a time.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Project unknown

    I think I recognize that as an Okimoto sloop, a friend had one years ago...Japan build, right time frame, composite, in the old meaning: steel frames and carvel skin. But. I have to concur that she is not a candidate for restoration, just too far gone. The were neat boats, and did, in fact have a bit of reverse sheer if memory serves, but not that much, and a fair sheer! Nope, keep looking. One of those ("Little Wings" iirc) was sailed to hawaii by a young lad in the 1970's or maybe late 60's, escorted by his father on a larger boat..was some published material about it but I cant bring that tidbit up in my random-access memory, sorry. But, as others have said, this is not the boat to start out on.
    Last edited by Boatsbgood; 10-11-2018 at 10:54 PM. Reason: punctuation oops

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Project unknown

    Hell, Oscar, I'd say go for it. This boat might be in better shape than you think. If you have a place to store her for an extended period, get her under cover and properly shored up and dried out. See what you've got.

    Jamo

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Project unknown

    Quote Originally Posted by jsjpd1 View Post
    You guys are seeing this all wrong. That reverse sheer is intentional. Like a thunderbird.





    Hmmmm. No. But now you mention it, Oscar could do a lot worse than a Thunderbird. A true mid-century icon and a milestone of small sailboat design? What's not to love? And here we have....

    https://seattle.craigslist.org/kit/b...718523654.html

    Hull #13. Built 1959, only a year after hull #1, in the photo above. In sailing condition. For sixteen HUNDRED dollars. One-six-zero-zero. That's... insane. I'm actually thinking about it. Someone had better go buy that boat to save me from divorce, financial ruin and the scorn of society.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Project unknown

    Also, the plank runs and boot stripe are fair. It could just be the rub rail that is out of shape.

    I’d go look at it.
    -Jim

    Sucker for a pretty face.
    1934 27' Blanchard Cuiser ~ Amazon, Ex. Emalu
    19'6" Caledonia Yawl ~ Sparrow

    Getting into trouble one board at a time.

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Project unknown

    Quote Originally Posted by jsjpd1 View Post
    Also, the plank runs and boot stripe are fair. It could just be the rub rail that is out of shape.

    I’d go look at it.
    Ok. I'll grant you that maybe it's the rub rail out of place making the hull look hogged to me. But all joking aside I think that boat is not salvageable in any reasonable sense of the word. Especially not when there are so very, very many better candidates out there.

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Project unknown

    Quote Originally Posted by cstevens View Post




    Hmmmm. No. But now you mention it, Oscar could do a lot worse than a Thunderbird. A true mid-century icon and a milestone of small sailboat design? What's not to love? And here we have....

    https://seattle.craigslist.org/kit/b...718523654.html

    Hull #13. Built 1959, only a year after hull #1, in the photo above. In sailing condition. For sixteen HUNDRED dollars. One-six-zero-zero. That's... insane. I'm actually thinking about it. Someone had better go buy that boat to save me from divorce, financial ruin and the scorn of society.

    OH Chris, its a damn good thing I JUST brought home the navigator project, or I would be figuring out how to sell everything I have in my shop to get that T-bird.
    There's the plan, then there's what actually happens.

    Ben Sebens, RN

    15' Welsford Navigator Inconceivable
    16' W. Simmons Mattinicus double ender ​Matty

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Project unknown

    Quote Originally Posted by BBSebens View Post
    OH Chris, its a damn good thing I JUST brought home the navigator project, or I would be figuring out how to sell everything I have in my shop to get that T-bird.
    Heck Ben we could go halves on it. Keep it in Blaine, go sailing on weekends...

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Project unknown

    Maybe, it’s hard that tell without going and poking at it. Assuming that the rub rail is what is out of shape and not the whole boat, the only other glaring issue starboard quarter pulling away from the transom. Bad frame would be my guess but it could be fasteners too. The picture taken from the bow actually looks pretty good aside from the peeling varnish.

    Personally I’m not a big fan of Thunderbirds.
    -Jim

    Sucker for a pretty face.
    1934 27' Blanchard Cuiser ~ Amazon, Ex. Emalu
    19'6" Caledonia Yawl ~ Sparrow

    Getting into trouble one board at a time.

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Project unknown

    I can see that Thunderbirds might be an acquired taste. They don't have the lines of something like a Dragon or an Evergreen. But I love them. Always have, although I've only sailed aboard one once or twice as a kid. But I won't drift this thread into an ode to the magical T-bird.

    Back to the OPs boat. I don't know Jim. Yeah, I guess if I squint real hard through my rose-colored glasses I could see how that boat might be saved. But do you really want to tell Oscar that he should yard her out of the woods and embark on a minimum-five-year project? When next week chances are that something far better will show up on craigslist, usedvictoria.ca or kijiji?

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Project unknown

    I’m not telling anyone to do anything. I’m merely pointing out that the pictures may be deceiving, or not, and the only way to know for sure is to see it in person. If that boat were in Juneau I would probably go look at it just to satisfy my curiosity, if nothing else and I might consider it if the boat spoke to me. But there aren’t many old wooden project boats around here. We’re too isolated and the climate is harder on them here. I do agree that it would be a huge project so it would have to be something that I thought was pretty special. One thing it does have going for it is it’s a nice size, not to big.
    -Jim

    Sucker for a pretty face.
    1934 27' Blanchard Cuiser ~ Amazon, Ex. Emalu
    19'6" Caledonia Yawl ~ Sparrow

    Getting into trouble one board at a time.

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Project unknown

    Thanks for all the replies!

    I will go check her out this weekend, mainly because i have nothing better to do. will take some photos and inform you all how much hullshape is lost :P
    the thunderbird is not really for me. But the other one in Seattle is for sure a deal, looks nice and all that new rigging
    Im more in it for the project and the feeling afterwards when im sailing towards the horizon in something ive put my blood sweat and tears into

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Project unknown

    Quote Originally Posted by jsjpd1 View Post
    I’m not telling anyone to do anything. I’m merely pointing out that the pictures may be deceiving, or not, and the only way to know for sure is to see it in person. If that boat were in Juneau I would probably go look at it just to satisfy my curiosity, if nothing else and I might consider it if the boat spoke to me. But there aren’t many old wooden project boats around here. We’re too isolated and the climate is harder on them here. I do agree that it would be a huge project so it would have to be something that I thought was pretty special. One thing it does have going for it is it’s a nice size, not to big.
    Fair enough. Ok then.

    Quote Originally Posted by Oscinator View Post
    Thanks for all the replies!

    I will go check her out this weekend, mainly because i have nothing better to do. will take some photos and inform you all how much hullshape is lost :P
    the thunderbird is not really for me. But the other one in Seattle is for sure a deal, looks nice and all that new rigging
    Im more in it for the project and the feeling afterwards when im sailing towards the horizon in something ive put my blood sweat and tears into
    Well Oscar, I'll say that's really the only reason in the word to restore a boat. So at least you are off to the right start.

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Project unknown


  21. #21
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    Default Re: Project unknown

    Or this. A Crocker Stonehorse in operating condition for $4500.

    https://bellingham.craigslist.org/bo...717169005.html

    And believe me - you can still put plenty of blood, sweat and tears into a boat that is closer to being done than the one in the OP.

  22. #22
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    Default Re: Project unknown

    Freya, yes, in a heartbeat.
    -Jim

    Sucker for a pretty face.
    1934 27' Blanchard Cuiser ~ Amazon, Ex. Emalu
    19'6" Caledonia Yawl ~ Sparrow

    Getting into trouble one board at a time.

  23. #23
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    Default Re: Project unknown

    "I think that boat is not salvageable in any reasonable sense of the word.".....Hey Moderators, someone used the term "reasonable" in a wooden boat forum!

    Skipper thinks she's beautiful and has not lost her shape. The boat has already told Skipper her name, Yorokobi, Japanese for Joy. Once a boat is named, she must be saved. There is so much there to work with, we see more than a pattern boat. Restoration is as much about the journey as much as the destination. If you don't pick her up what will you have to do for the next 150 weekends? We'd like to see her restored and Skipper says she'll put $100 USD towards the project

    Does she have some similarities in size and fairness to the Nordic Folkboat?

    Have fun looking at her!

    Cheers
    Clark and Skippebr /> PS Disclaimer, we love basket cases...




  24. #24
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    Default Re: Project unknown

    Quote Originally Posted by signalcharlie View Post
    Hey Moderators, someone used the term "reasonable" in a wooden boat forum!
    Yes, and they were quite right about it, too. She's a bonfire sitting on top of a lead ballast keel, and distracting from that fact is not only doing a disservice to the OP, but also to a lot of boats in better shape that need a new caretaker. We can't save them all, so focus on the ones we can save.

    And that rowboat is no comparison. That's what, 15 foot 300 pounds? A tenth of the weight, no rig or equipment and a lot more wood in a reusable state.

  25. #25
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    Default Re: Project unknown

    There is no such thing as a free boat.
    Do you want a boat or do you want a years long, expensive project?

    With all due respect that looks more like a bonfire in the waiting than a boat.

  26. #26
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    Default Re: Project unknown

    Quote Originally Posted by signalcharlie View Post
    "I think that boat is not salvageable in any reasonable sense of the word.".....Hey Moderators, someone used the term "reasonable" in a wooden boat forum!

    Skipper thinks she's beautiful and has not lost her shape. The boat has already told Skipper her name, Yorokobi, Japanese for Joy. Once a boat is named, she must be saved. There is so much there to work with, we see more than a pattern boat. Restoration is as much about the journey as much as the destination. If you don't pick her up what will you have to do for the next 150 weekends? We'd like to see her restored and Skipper says she'll put $100 USD towards the project

    Yorokobi, eh? That's a good boat name. Sigh, well Oscar I wish you the best of luck with whatever boat you end up with!

  27. #27
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    Default Re: Project unknown

    Few, if any boats are really worth the effort of the craft be they historically documented, one of kind/famous trip, famous builder/ owner..

    Restoration is a craft. most people say. just take the line and build it new. Yeah that works. But for those like me that love the craft of actual restoration (not limited to boats) It's a labor of love.

    Get it only if you have the skill.. all the rest can happen. As our friend Leo is doing with Tally Ho in the PNW
    Denise, Bristol PA, Oday30, Anchor Yacht Club, On tidal Delaware River. my current project; http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...0-Ducker-Resto

  28. #28
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    Default Re: Project unknown

    Japanese boats were often built tight seam, which takes a lot of skill and is more difficult to repair when the get old. Frames are likely to be cracked as well. Not an ideal first boat, especially with so many more worthy candidates out there that will end up like the OP if nobody puts in a little work to bring them back.

    That said, can it be repaired? Of course. They all can.

  29. #29
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    Default Re: Project unknown

    No disservice or distraction intended. A boat like that doesn't have to have a restoration be quantified by reason. With the right blend of knowledge, skills, resources and experience, drawn from this forum, that boat, or any boat, can be rescued. I don't know what the reasonable money factor multiple is, but most likely 4-5 times the boat's restored value will be spent on the restoration.

    The rowboat we restored was a gift to a girl in the 1880s. 21 feet, 526 pounds btw. Several folks offered to take lines and build a new copy, for $45,000+ We funded our restoration for the Museum, about $2000, loved every minute of it and learned an enormous amount along the way. Had a reason to buy some cool tools, like a caulking hammer.

    You've already made your first 2 mistakes, you are a dreamer and a maker. If you're in it for the project, go for it, she will teach you a lot, mistakes along the way and a good bit of money. But oh so much fun.

    Cheers
    Kent and Skipper




    Last edited by signalcharlie; 10-12-2018 at 03:28 PM.

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