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Thread: Saudis kill and dismember journalist in consulate in Istanbul

  1. #36
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    Default Re: Saudis kill and dismember journalist in consulate in Istanbul

    Chop Chop Square.

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  2. #37
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    Default Re: Saudis kill and dismember journalist in consulate in Istanbul

    I would also point to their actions regarding Yemen.
    The definition of stupid has got to be the belief that more guns will negate the bloodshed done with guns.

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    Default Re: Saudis kill and dismember journalist in consulate in Istanbul

    KSA is the only place I've been, that I was really pleased to leave. Also the only place I've been where the accomodation had a 24/7 gate guard......with a .50cal machine gun lined up down the access road.
    It is a very warped society, by western standards.

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    Default Re: Saudis kill and dismember journalist in consulate in Istanbul

    Quote Originally Posted by StevenBauer View Post
    Our government knew the Saudis were going to take Khashoggi from intercepted Saudi communications. Then did nothing.
    Then the government is complicit in the murder.

    But SB is correct: "Doesn't matter. No Western nation, no nation on earth would have done anything, will do anything about it, even if true. The absence of business ties would not change this. It's Realpolitik."

    Our governments are made up of persons with no morals at all, not a skerik. And a deal of them profess religious belief, a completely and demonstrably fraudulent lie.

  5. #40
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    Default Re: Saudis kill and dismember journalist in consulate in Istanbul

    If the western world sits back and does nothing, then we are definitely complicit. This is a very shameful affair.

  6. #41
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    Default Re: Saudis kill and dismember journalist in consulate in Istanbul

    The evidence may prove too overwhelming for the western world to sit back and do nothing. Turkey says they have both audio and video recordings proving Khashoggi was killed inside the Saudi Arabian Istanbul embassy:

    The audio recording in particular provides some of the most persuasive and gruesome evidence that the Saudi team is responsible for Khashoggi’s death, the officials said.

    “The voice recording from inside the embassy lays out what happened to Jamal after he entered,” said one person with knowledge of the recording who, like others, spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss highly sensitive intelligence.

    “You can hear his voice and the voices of men speaking Arabic,” this person said. “You can hear how he was interrogated, tortured and then murdered.”

    A second person briefed on the recording said men could be heard beating Khashoggi.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...=.06b72dd34af9
    The Washington Post report says Turkey is reluctant to release the recordings fearing that doing so would divulge how they surveil foreign entities inside their country.
    Last edited by Tom Montgomery; 10-12-2018 at 11:10 AM.
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    Default Re: Saudis kill and dismember journalist in consulate in Istanbul

    Quote Originally Posted by Sky Blue View Post
    Still, we cannot dispense with the requirement of evidence.
    Since when have conclusions required evidence to convince the right wing of anything they have set their minds to believing?
    One of the most enduring qualities of an old wooden boat is the smell it imparts to your clothing.

  8. #43
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    Default Re: Saudis kill and dismember journalist in consulate in Istanbul

    Trump doesn't want to stop trading and selling weapons to them, but he wanted to squeeze Canada out of NAFTA lol

  9. #44
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    Default Re: Saudis kill and dismember journalist in consulate in Istanbul

    Are there any serious doubts about this story? The major news networks seemed to be running it as if it were credible.

  10. #45
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    Default Re: Saudis kill and dismember journalist in consulate in Istanbul

    I may have just found the answer to my own question:

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...cid=spartandhp

  11. #46
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    Default Re: Saudis kill and dismember journalist in consulate in Istanbul

    Twitter users are identifying the Saudi nationals and stating relationships

    https://mobile.twitter.com/qattouby/...99548233797632
    Be wary of your critics, at peace with your decisions, and work hard to be a better man.

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    Default Re: Saudis kill and dismember journalist in consulate in Istanbul

    Quote Originally Posted by Lew Barrett View Post
    Since when have conclusions required evidence to convince the right wing of anything they have set their minds to believing?
    The right wing and their leader, Trump, strongly believe in the requirement of evidence...except when they willy nilly chant, "Lock her up! Lock her up!"
    bccphalarope(dot)com

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    Default Re: Saudis kill and dismember journalist in consulate in Istanbul

    Quote Originally Posted by twodot View Post
    The right wing and their leader, Trump, strongly believe in the requirement of evidence...except when they willy nilly chant, "Lock her up! Lock her up!"
    Plus you don’t want to be too hasty cutting off those arms shipments. Doing the right thing might cost some money. Worse yet, somebody else might make the money you were supposed to make as the arms supplier to the world. The only bright spot there is it would probably be our new best friends, the Russians.
    One of the most enduring qualities of an old wooden boat is the smell it imparts to your clothing.

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    Default Re: Saudis kill and dismember journalist in consulate in Istanbul

    What are the verifiable facts that have emerged in the wake of this disappearance, and has any independent media verified those facts?

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    Default Re: Saudis kill and dismember journalist in consulate in Istanbul

    ^Little gadfly, always instructing, never instructed.
    bccphalarope(dot)com

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    Default Re: Saudis kill and dismember journalist in consulate in Istanbul

    Quote Originally Posted by twodot View Post
    ^Little gadfly, always instructing, never instructed.
    Perfect!

    Jeff C

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    Default Re: Saudis kill and dismember journalist in consulate in Istanbul

    This piece casts the disappearance as part of historical grievances between the Muslim Brotherhood and the Wahhabis. It is written by a journalist who worked with the victim for many years in the ME.

    https://spectator.us/2018/10/jamal-khashoggi/

  18. #53
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    Default Re: Saudis kill and dismember journalist in consulate in Istanbul

    Quote Originally Posted by Sky Blue View Post
    This piece casts the disappearance as part of historical grievances between the Muslim Brotherhood and the Wahhabis. It is written by a journalist who worked with the victim for many years in the ME.

    https://spectator.us/2018/10/jamal-khashoggi/
    Yes.

    The "victim".

    You acknowledge the murder, yet apologize for it.
    Rattling the teacups.

  19. #54
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    Default Re: Saudis kill and dismember journalist in consulate in Istanbul

    Quote Originally Posted by Sky Blue View Post
    What are the verifiable facts that have emerged in the wake of this disappearance, and has any independent media verified those facts?
    Who would you class as independent?
    The definition of stupid has got to be the belief that more guns will negate the bloodshed done with guns.

  20. #55
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    Default Re: Saudis kill and dismember journalist in consulate in Istanbul

    Quote Originally Posted by Lew Barrett View Post
    Plus you don’t want to be too hasty cutting off those arms shipments. Doing the right thing might cost some money. Worse yet, somebody else might make the money you were supposed to make as the arms supplier to the world. The only bright spot there is it would probably be our new best friends, the Russians.
    I was with you as far as "Plus you don’t want to be too hasty cutting off those arms." Advice the Saudis should have taken.

    Yes, I know, you needed a sarcasm emoji.

  21. #56
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    Default Re: Saudis kill and dismember journalist in consulate in Istanbul

    Let us suppose that the facts are as supposed.

    What should be done about it? What level of proof is necessary prior to taking steps to punish the conduct? Whose oxen should be gored if business relationships are to be severed, sanctions imposed? How much harm ought we endure to make this point with the Saudis? Which countries ought to be the ones to police it?

    Also, the complaint that the alleged kilking constitutes an erosion of press freedom assumes that the killing is related to the victim's criticisms of the Saudi government or other activities as a journalist. I don't think that conclusion can be reached without evidence.

    The Saudi government is among the most criticized in the world, by journalists and others. These people are not dropping like flies. The victim could have been killed for reasons wholly apart from his activities as a journalist.

    If that is so, then does that change what the response should be? And what is the standing of our own governments to really complain? Does anyone suppose that our governments don't engage in such activities? Does anyone suppose the Saudis believe that our governments do not engage in such activities?
    Last edited by Sky Blue; 10-13-2018 at 12:49 AM.

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    Default Re: Saudis kill and dismember journalist in consulate in Istanbul

    Quote Originally Posted by johnw View Post
    I was with you as far as "Plus you don’t want to be too hasty cutting off those arms." Advice the Saudis should have taken.

    Yes, I know, you needed a sarcasm emoji.
    For better or worse, only sarcasm was intended. Critique noted.

    Edit: I just got the joke thanks to Doug’s poke. Just a bit slow today!
    Last edited by Lew Barrett; 10-13-2018 at 01:18 PM.
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    Default Re: Saudis kill and dismember journalist in consulate in Istanbul

    Let’s not forget these are the people responsible for 9/11. Not to mention Yemen.

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    Default Re: Saudis kill and dismember journalist in consulate in Istanbul

    Quote Originally Posted by johnw View Post
    I was with you as far as "Plus you don’t want to be too hasty cutting off those arms." Advice the Saudis should have taken.

    Yes, I know, you needed a sarcasm emoji.
    Truncating the quote at arms rather than shipments changes the whole sense.

    Careless?
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  25. #60
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    Default Re: Saudis kill and dismember journalist in consulate in Istanbul

    Quote Originally Posted by Sky Blue View Post
    Let us suppose that the facts are as supposed.

    What should be done about it? What level of proof is necessary prior to taking steps to punish the conduct? Whose oxen should be gored if business relationships are to be severed, sanctions imposed? How much harm ought we endure to make this point with the Saudis? Which countries ought to be the ones to police it?

    Also, the complaint that the alleged kilking constitutes an erosion of press freedom assumes that the killing is related to the victim's criticisms of the Saudi government or other activities as a journalist. I don't think that conclusion can be reached without evidence.

    The Saudi government is among the most criticized in the world, by journalists and others. These people are not dropping like flies. The victim could have been killed for reasons wholly apart from his activities as a journalist.

    If that is so, then does that change what the response should be? And what is the standing of our own governments to really complain? Does anyone suppose that our governments don't engage in such activities? Does anyone suppose the Saudis believe that our governments do not engage in such activities?
    You seem to be suggesting that murder and the abuse of the system of Diplomatic Immunity being corrupted and abused is less important if the victim follows this or that form of employment.
    Yes?
    Remarkable!
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  26. #61
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    Default Re: Saudis kill and dismember journalist in consulate in Istanbul

    We won't have these sorts of problems when Ivanka is the UN ambassador
    If he ever drinks the brew of 10 tanna leaves, he will become a monster the likes of which the world has never seen



  27. #62
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    Default Re: Saudis kill and dismember journalist in consulate in Istanbul

    Trump used this incident at his Ohio rally- he’s investigating it , ‘no evidence yet ‘, but boyo severe penalties if the Saudis did this- unless it costs him money. Can’t do that. I mean, ya gotta draw the line somewhere, right?
    There's a lot of things they didn't tell me when I signed on with this outfit....

  28. #63
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    Default Re: Saudis kill and dismember journalist in consulate in Istanbul

    and Donald Trump Jr tweeted that Mr. Khashoggi was connected to Jihadists.
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    We might also remember that Khashoggi is nephew to infamous ( Iran-Contra) arms dealer, Adnan Khashoggi. To me, that gives this plot the potential to thicken beyond the silencing of an outspoken critic.

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  30. #65
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    Default Re: Saudis kill and dismember journalist in consulate in Istanbul

    Quote Originally Posted by Breakaway View Post
    We might also remember that Khashoggi is nephew to infamous ( Iran-Contra) arms dealer, Adnan Khashoggi. To me, that gives this plot the potential to thicken beyond the silencing of an outspoken critic.

    Kevin


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    Also a cousin to Dodi Fayed, who was dating Britain’s Princess Diana when the two were killed in a car crash in Paris. Deep waters.
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    Default Re: Saudis kill and dismember journalist in consulate in Istanbul

    Quote Originally Posted by P.I. Stazzer-Newt View Post
    Truncating the quote at arms rather than shipments changes the whole sense.

    Careless?
    No, that was the point. Dark humor.

  32. #67
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    Default Re: Saudis kill and dismember journalist in consulate in Istanbul

    Quote Originally Posted by P.I. Stazzer-Newt View Post
    Truncating the quote at arms rather than shipments changes the whole sense.

    Careless?
    Well played and thanks for pointing out John’s joke, which I missed at first pass. I cut up my initial reply to match.
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  33. #68
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    Default Re: Saudis kill and dismember journalist in consulate in Istanbul

    Quote Originally Posted by johnw View Post
    No, that was the point. Dark humor.
    Pardon me for being a bit dull today. Your comment wasn’t intended as a slash at my post, rather it was a piece of humor, and a sharp one!
    One of the most enduring qualities of an old wooden boat is the smell it imparts to your clothing.

  34. #69
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    Default Re: Saudis kill and dismember journalist in consulate in Istanbul

    Quote Originally Posted by Breakaway View Post
    We might also remember that Khashoggi is nephew to infamous ( Iran-Contra) arms dealer, Adnan Khashoggi. To me, that gives this plot the potential to thicken beyond the silencing of an outspoken critic.

    Kevin


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    Kevin:

    You make a good point but Saudi families tend to be quite big. As in hundreds and often thousands of relatives, frequently resembling tribes rather than extended families as we understand the term. The familial relationship might have significance or might not. It’s hard to say but it’s an interesting observation, further expanded upon by Isla’s comment.
    One of the most enduring qualities of an old wooden boat is the smell it imparts to your clothing.

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    Default Saudis kill and dismember journalist in consulate in Istanbul

    Quote Originally Posted by Lew Barrett View Post
    Kevin:



    You make a good point but Saudi families tend to be quite big. As in hundreds and often thousands of relatives, frequently resembling tribes rather than extended families as we understand the term. The familial relationship might have significance or might not. It’s hard to say but it’s an interesting observation, further expanded upon by Isla’s comment.


    Well, I was not aware of the size and extent of Arab families. I learned something. I suppose it may have to do with having harems?

    Checking the Wikipedia page for Adnan reveals about eight named relatives, one of whom is the missing journalist who is the subject of this thread, though. So perhaps their are, " real," ( blood) relatives as well as " uncles," who share no blood tie but are referred to as such. ( I have two such, " uncles.")

    Kevin





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