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Thread: Another 'hoax' aiming at Florida's panhandle

  1. #36
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    Default Re: Another 'hoax' aiming at Florida's panhandle

    Quote Originally Posted by Too Little Time View Post
    I gave an answer. It might not be an answer you like. But I did give an answer.

    Buying time is a lie that is told all the time. If you were a student of obscure history, you might recall that Johnson wanted to do more relative to the civil rights act and the plight of black people, but he did not want to start a civil war. So for 60 years we have been buying time. Waiting until the time is right to actually give black people their rights. For most of that time the federal government had a rule that continued segregation of housing. Obama was very much surprised to hear the rule was declared unconstitutional in his 8th year in office.

    I think buying time will make the relocation problem much more difficult.
    I think you think you answered the two questions.
    How do we form a mutiny? Our new captain is navigating poorly.

  2. #37
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    Default Re: Another 'hoax' aiming at Florida's panhandle

    Five dead as so far reported, and the hurricane ploughs north.

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    Default Re: Another 'hoax' aiming at Florida's panhandle

    TLT stated up front that changing the mind of those who don't accept the science of climate change is futile. He's right about that. His proposed responses to the problem are facile at best. Move to higher ground. When he understands that moving to higher ground for however many hundred million Bangladeshies, Thais, Vietnamese and so on who' s land will be inundated, means moving to places like the US, and when he understands that vast, vast tracts of cropping land across the US, Europe, Asia and Australia will become unproductive desert, then he may, just may, understand that he has no valid response. But he won't accept the truth of this until after it has happened.

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    Default Re: Another 'hoax' aiming at Florida's panhandle

    There are other ways to scrub co2; plankton and exposed metamorphic rock come to mind. I read, somewhere, that when the Himalayas formed, co2 levels dropped drastically. In a hundred thousand years everything will be back to normal and we will be just a gleam in paleontologists eyes as they discuss the polymer extinction barrier on a cliff face in Wales and what it might mean.

  5. #40
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    Default Re: Another 'hoax' aiming at Florida's panhandle

    Since the consumers in our country are going through a phase where they equate feelings with thinking and ignorance with reason, it is rapidly facing off with the civilised world. Just a note here, high tide in Carteret County, NC comes up to the white line on the side of Steel Tank Road on my way to work. I do not think the road enginesrs built the road with 2 inches above sea level as a safe margin.

  6. #41
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    Default Re: Another 'hoax' aiming at Florida's panhandle

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Y View Post
    TLT stated up front that changing the mind of those who don't accept the science of climate change is futile. He's right about that. His proposed responses to the problem are facile at best. Move to higher ground. When he understands that moving to higher ground for however many hundred million Bangladeshies, Thais, Vietnamese and so on who' s land will be inundated, means moving to places like the US, and when he understands that vast, vast tracts of cropping land across the US, Europe, Asia and Australia will become unproductive desert, then he may, just may, understand that he has no valid response. But he won't accept the truth of this until after it has happened.
    I fully understand the situation. I fully agree with your assessment of the future. My first comment was I did not have a plan for Bangladesh. Moving does seem to be an option. At least for now.

    I understand that some people might deny my view of the future. But I am not going to make a claim they are denialists. They simply have a more optimistic view of what they think governments will do.

    The recent climate change reports don't seem to be very optimistic.
    Life is complex.

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    Default Another 'hoax' aiming at Florida's panhandle

    Quote Originally Posted by twodot View Post
    And then you were asked, for all 162 million, or just the wealthier that you cited?

    And then you were asked, where will they go?

    The words "appear" and "seem" go only so far.


    You seem to be looking for a universal answer. Do any such answers--for any problem--exist? Moving to higher ground will save lives.
    Not everyone will survive though. As humans we want that, but nature doesn't care and doesn't seem to work that way. Some people--and plants and bugs and animals--will die. Just as they did when the climate changed in the earth's past.

    People will die. Humanity will probably survive.

    Kevin


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  8. #43
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    Default Re: Another 'hoax' aiming at Florida's panhandle

    Quote Originally Posted by twodot View Post
    No, I am just curious if TLT can flesh out his answer.
    negatory
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

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    Default Re: Another 'hoax' aiming at Florida's panhandle

    Confirmed tornadoes current on the ground between Richmond and Williamsburg.

    Flash flooding all over the metro area.

    More hoax fun!!!!
    Skip

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  10. #45
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    Default Re: Another 'hoax' aiming at Florida's panhandle

    We in the West win soooo much respect among Pacific Islanders and Asians living at sea level when we pretend to know more about climate change than pretty much every climate scientist and refuse to take any preventative measures because it's inconvenient. We don't deserve this planet.

    Rick

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    Default Re: Another 'hoax' aiming at Florida's panhandle

    Quote Originally Posted by Rick-Mi View Post
    I remember a lot of serious debate on this forum back before the ClimateGate scandals, failure of alarmist projections, revelation of faulty data & methods, America being removed as the "sucker at the table" in the Paris Climate Accord and the overall realization that the climate scam is about money and power for the global elite.

    As we can see, there are still holdouts like old Japanese soldiers on some deserted island still fighting WWII, but the giant con has effectively blown up.
    The only Nobel laureate my family knows is a leader in the campaign against climate change. Are you seriously going to claim that we should ignore Nobel prize winners and believe they are fools involved in a con?

    Really?

    Oh, and if you didn't notice it, many of the global elite have oil money. Why would they create a con to make oil less valuable?

  12. #47
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    Default Re: Another 'hoax' aiming at Florida's panhandle

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pless View Post
    nah,they'll end up in one of those offshore immigration prisons for brown people that australia runs
    150 million people?
    That's a pretty big island... and a lot of porta potties

  13. #48
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    Default Re: Another 'hoax' aiming at Florida's panhandle

    Ive had a look at some of the damage, that was some event………………...

  14. #49
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    Default Re: Another 'hoax' aiming at Florida's panhandle

    Quote Originally Posted by paulf View Post
    Your knowledge is limited at best. Perhaps 20000 years ago this would be just a bump. But now , with millions of dollars of real estate at the waters edge, the problem affects all of us.
    Want to just keep replacing the nit wit's house?

    Paul
    I could comment on your IQ but won't. Obviously you have no clue that 20000 yrs isn't even a blip on the time line of 3+ billion yr old fossils. Nor is global warming a blip on the time line in the last 20000 yrs. Building on the coast is a man made problem where natural disasters are known to happen. Same as people building homes where earth quakes happen, same as forest fires, same as flooding along the Mississippi River, yada, yada, yada. There is no need to call people "nit wits"...did you say the same about those who built and lost homes in Washington state forest fires because they built where disaster could happen? How about those who lost their lives in Mt. St. Helens? I'm done with this thread so don't expect to engage me with an answer.

  15. #50
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    Default Re: Another 'hoax' aiming at Florida's panhandle

    Quote Originally Posted by twodot View Post
    And with that, he was gone.
    His points were not entirely without merit.

    My wife wanted us to move to Myrtle Beach when I retired. Storms hitting that area was a reason I would not.

    Where our friend's logic ends is that not everyone living where earthquakes, hurricanes, or tornadoes (or volcanoes) are a real risk moved into those areas. Many, likely most, were born in those areas. I'm not sure how many can afford to re-locate.
    How do we form a mutiny? Our new captain is navigating poorly.

  16. #51
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    Default Re: Another 'hoax' aiming at Florida's panhandle

    Quote Originally Posted by twodot View Post
    And then you were asked, for all 162 million, or just the wealthier that you cited?

    And then you were asked, where will they go?

    The words "appear" and "seem" go only so far.
    Quote Originally Posted by twodot View Post
    And with that, he was gone.
    I am used to talking to my wife, my adult kids and my teenage grandkids. They seem to be able to fill in the answers to follow up questions they ask with little assistance. "If you were in Bangladesh with little money, what would you do?" is a good starting point.

    I use the terms "appear" and "seems" to allow for some change of plans. I certainly don't know the preferences of the individuals nor the roadblocks that others with create. Nor do I know all the details of the future. But a recommendation to move to a safer place seems to be reasonable. Yet, most people prefer to stay put and accept the consequences.

    But you have given no plan at all. As I have said immediately stopping production of greenhouse gases does not solve the problem.
    Life is complex.

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    Default Re: Another 'hoax' aiming at Florida's panhandle

    Quote Originally Posted by BillP View Post
    I could comment on your IQ but won't. Obviously you have no clue that 20000 yrs isn't even a blip on the time line of 3+ billion yr old fossils. Nor is global warming a blip on the time line in the last 20000 yrs. Building on the coast is a man made problem where natural disasters are known to happen. Same as people building homes where earth quakes happen, same as forest fires, same as flooding along the Mississippi River, yada, yada, yada. There is no need to call people "nit wits"...did you say the same about those who built and lost homes in Washington state forest fires because they built where disaster could happen? How about those who lost their lives in Mt. St. Helens? I'm done with this thread so don't expect to engage me with an answer.
    our recent ancestors were not all that stupid. The barrier islands of NJ were only ever inhabited by wild life, livestock, and fishermen. Everyone else lived on the mainland where it was high and dry through the worst of the storms and tidal flooding. It was only the past 100 years that we decided that living on a shifting strip of sand 6 feet higher than the high tide was a good thing
    "If you think you are too small to make a difference, try sleeping with a mosquito"

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    Default Re: Another 'hoax' aiming at Florida's panhandle

    I use the terms "seems" and "appears" when I can not provide the truth.

  19. #54
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    Default Re: Another 'hoax' aiming at Florida's panhandle

    Quote Originally Posted by Art Haberland View Post
    our recent ancestors were not all that stupid. The barrier islands of NJ were only ever inhabited by wild life, livestock, and fishermen. Everyone else lived on the mainland where it was high and dry through the worst of the storms and tidal flooding. It was only the past 100 years that we decided that living on a shifting strip of sand 6 feet higher than the high tide was a good thing
    I don't know about all of that. I'm 73, and, near as I can tell, a LOT of places were quite built up along the shore and in places where storms are a problem. Or where rising sea level is a problem.

    Miami is one place. Norfolk is another. There are places in NJ that flood, and have all my life. some flood worse, or more often, than they used to, because of building up river.
    How do we form a mutiny? Our new captain is navigating poorly.

  20. #55
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    Default Re: Another 'hoax' aiming at Florida's panhandle

    Quote Originally Posted by Canoeyawl View Post
    I use the terms "seems" and "appears" when I can not provide the truth.
    It seems that dictionaries provide definitions. It appears you are free to use the ones you want.
    Life is complex.

  21. #56
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    Default Re: Another 'hoax' aiming at Florida's panhandle

    Quote Originally Posted by twodot View Post
    You still haven't named a couple of civilizations that collapsed, and how you know that they had denialists that did not do well, and others who made plans and did OK. Best that I can tell you are implying human migration as a conscious choice, and are a supporter of human migration historically and presently. However, this a problem because modern conservatives, as a group, are strongly opposed to both the reality of AGW, and human migration. They want people who are different from them to stay put. Moreover, I think that your plan for Bangladesh only solves the problem for less than 1% of the population, and the wealthy at that; thus you also haven't given a plan. It seems, it appears, that you believe that laissez faire is the best plan.
    You seem to have changed my comment that denialists do not fare well into civilizations have collapsed. I suggested some that I feel did collapsed. Don't imply that I made a claim that civilizations collapsed because of denialists. But I would not argue against such a claim by others.

    In the African rift zone there are very large cities in the shadow of volcanoes and on the shore of carbonated lakes. Even near Vesuvius there are large populations. I would suggest the people there are denialists and will become victims of disaster. I could point out the recent hurricanes where a large number of people will rebuild after making claims that it will not happen again.

    I pointed out that some could move. I don't have any intent of solving problems for every individual on the planet. I do point out that no one has proposed a solution. But whatever happens a lot of people are going to die and life is going to change for the worse.
    Life is complex.

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    Default Re: Another 'hoax' aiming at Florida's panhandle

    Quote Originally Posted by Breakaway View Post

    Climate may be changing but trying to pin the argument to an October hurricane makes-no sense.
    This is an argument denialists trot out after every major storm. But the argument is correct. However, once one begins to collect statistics, and plot the numbers, strength and dates of hurricanes, the trend becomes undeniable. Except to the denialists.

    Quote Originally Posted by oznabrag View Post
    We are staring into the face of a mass extinction event the likes of which have never been seen.
    It has been noted that we are in the onset of the Sixth Catastrophic Extinction. There have been five others -- but you're right: no one has seen them.

    Quote Originally Posted by John Smith View Post
    Let me repeat my old questions: If climate change is a total hoax, but by addressing it we get off oil, onto renewable energy, get more efficient cars, better insulated homes, and create millions of jobs, what's the downside?

    On the other hand, if it is a real danger, and we ignore it, what's the upside?
    The downside of switching to renewable energy is that a significant percentage of the 1% will lose a lot of money. That will not be permitted to happen.
    "The future is already here it's just not very evenly distributed." William Gibson

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    Default Re: Another 'hoax' aiming at Florida's panhandle

    Anyone with a brain shouldn't build on a flood plain or along the coast! They will continue doing so until Insurance companies stop giving out policies for water disasters and banks won't give loans unless they have them.Just stupid!.

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    Default Re: Another 'hoax' aiming at Florida's panhandle

    seem
    sēm/
    verb
    3rd person present: seems



    • give the impression or sensation of being something or having a particular quality.
      "Dawn seemed annoyed"


      synonyms: appear (to be), have the appearance/air of being, give the impression of being, look, look as though one is, show signs of being, look to be; More



      • used to make a statement or description of one's thoughts, feelings, or actions less assertive or forceful.
        "I seem to remember giving you very precise instructions"


      • be unable to do something, despite having tried.
        "he couldn't seem to remember his lines"







  25. #60
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    Default Re: Another 'hoax' aiming at Florida's panhandle

    This is an argument denialists trot out after every major storm. But the argument is correct. However, once one begins to collect statistics, and plot the numbers, strength and dates of hurricanes, the trend becomes undeniable. Except to the denialists.
    Any climatologists using the prevalence of October hurricanes to support the case for climate change? What trend are you referring to? A trend of powerful hurricanes occurring in October?

    I can't speak for denialists, since I'm not one, but meteorologists state that 17 major hurricanes have made US landfall since 1851. A strong October hurricane is no indicator of climate change.

    https://weather.com/storms/hurricane/news/october-hurricanes-florida-threat

    Excerpt:
    From 1851 to 2016, 32 hurricanes made a Florida landfall in October, dwarfing the state with the second-highest number of October landfalls: Louisiana, with nine.

    There have been 17 major hurricanes (Category 3 or higher on the Saffir-Simpson Hurricane Wind Scale) that have made direct hits on the U.S. mainland in the month of October since 1851. Ten of those occurred in Florida.




    Kevin




    Kevin
    There are two kinds of boaters: those who have run aground, and those who lie about it.

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    Default Re: Another 'hoax' aiming at Florida's panhandle

    Quote Originally Posted by Breakaway View Post
    Any climatologists using the prevalence of October hurricanes to support the case for climate change? What trend are you referring to? A trend of powerful hurricanes occurring in October?

    I can't speak for denialists, since I'm not one, but meteorologists state that 17 major hurricanes have made US landfall since 1851. A strong October hurricane is no indicator of climate change.

    https://weather.com/storms/hurricane/news/october-hurricanes-florida-threat

    Excerpt:
    From 1851 to 2016, 32 hurricanes made a Florida landfall in October, dwarfing the state with the second-highest number of October landfalls: Louisiana, with nine.

    There have been 17 major hurricanes (Category 3 or higher on the Saffir-Simpson Hurricane Wind Scale) that have made direct hits on the U.S. mainland in the month of October since 1851. Ten of those occurred in Florida.

    Kevin
    Kevin
    As for a meteorological trend, I didn't have in mind specifically hurricanes in October that made landfall in Florida. I may be wrong in this, but I suspect that if one were to look at the mean time between major hurricanes making landfall in the US (anywhere), month of year not specified, one would see a diminishing period between storms. If one were to look at the relative severity of all hurricanes making landfall in the US, one might see a statistically significant increase in the severity of hurricanes making landfall over time.
    "The future is already here it's just not very evenly distributed." William Gibson

  27. #62
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    Default Re: Another 'hoax' aiming at Florida's panhandle

    What I do know about this climate change hoax is that it's beginning to cost us some real money, and it's well past time for those damnable liberals to stop it!!!
    "The future is already here it's just not very evenly distributed." William Gibson

  28. #63
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    Default Re: Another 'hoax' aiming at Florida's panhandle

    I may be wrong in this, but I suspect that if one were to look at the mean time between major hurricanes making landfall in the US (anywhere), month of year not specified, one would see a diminishing period between storms. If one were to look at the relative severity of all hurricanes making landfall in the US, one might see a statistically significant increase in the severity of hurricanes making landfall over time.
    You may very well be right. In fact, I wouldn't contest it.

    As for a meteorological trend, I didn't have in mind specifically hurricanes in October that made landfall in Florida.
    Ah, but the OP made that assertion and it was that assertion that prompted my reply. The history shows that October hurricanes are not occurring with either greater frequency or greater ferocity.

    Kevin
    There are two kinds of boaters: those who have run aground, and those who lie about it.

  29. #64
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    Default Re: Another 'hoax' aiming at Florida's panhandle

    Quote Originally Posted by S.V. Airlie View Post
    Anyone with a brain shouldn't build on a flood plain or along the coast! They will continue doing so until Insurance companies stop giving out policies for water disasters and banks won't give loans unless they have them.Just stupid!.
    I don't think it's all that simple. Food, transportation, and such were likely major factors in building where people built. WATER was a large part of both.

    Knowing what we know now, but didn't know then........
    How do we form a mutiny? Our new captain is navigating poorly.

  30. #65
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    Default Re: Another 'hoax' aiming at Florida's panhandle

    Quote Originally Posted by Breakaway View Post
    Any climatologists using the prevalence of October hurricanes to support the case for climate change? What trend are you referring to? A trend of powerful hurricanes occurring in October?

    I can't speak for denialists, since I'm not one, but meteorologists state that 17 major hurricanes have made US landfall since 1851. A strong October hurricane is no indicator of climate change.

    https://weather.com/storms/hurricane/news/october-hurricanes-florida-threat

    Excerpt:
    From 1851 to 2016, 32 hurricanes made a Florida landfall in October, dwarfing the state with the second-highest number of October landfalls: Louisiana, with nine.

    There have been 17 major hurricanes (Category 3 or higher on the Saffir-Simpson Hurricane Wind Scale) that have made direct hits on the U.S. mainland in the month of October since 1851. Ten of those occurred in Florida.




    Kevin




    Kevin
    We've had four cat 4 storms in a uniquely short period of time. Climate Change doesn't tell us we're apt to get more hurricanes, but that the hurricanes we get are apt to be more powerful.

    I can't find it, because I don't remember exactly what network or when, but the other day a weather science guy was on and explained why storms are stronger; warmer oceans.

    Doesn't mean MORE storms, but the storms are stronger storms than they would have been if the ocean wasn't warmer than it used to be.
    How do we form a mutiny? Our new captain is navigating poorly.

  31. #66
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    Default Re: Another 'hoax' aiming at Florida's panhandle

    People build near active volcanoes because the soil is so rich. Every now and again it blows and kills you, but in about a year another hopeful will build and farm above you. The sea/river might kill you but it also feeds you.

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    Default Re: Another 'hoax' aiming at Florida's panhandle

    Quote Originally Posted by S.V. Airlie View Post
    Anyone with a brain shouldn't build on a flood plain or along the coast! They will continue doing so until Insurance companies stop giving out policies for water disasters and banks won't give loans unless they have them.Just stupid!.
    Anyone with a brain shouldn't burn coal or oil. But we do. Just stupid.

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    Default Re: Another 'hoax' aiming at Florida's panhandle

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Y View Post
    Anyone with a brain shouldn't burn coal or oil. But we do. Just stupid.
    You have found the reason the current crop of republicans love it.
    Tom

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    Default Re: Another 'hoax' aiming at Florida's panhandle

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Y View Post
    Anyone with a brain shouldn't burn coal or oil. But we do. Just stupid.
    Some sadly is necessary, building in a flood plain a barrier Island or right up to the coast is a conscious decision.

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    Default Re: Another 'hoax' aiming at Florida's panhandle

    Humans breed like rats, the species can afford some losses in the process. Millions dead in both world wars and where is the hole?

    Nukes are a different level of threat but likely not fatal to the species, but climate change?

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