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Thread: Another 'hoax' aiming at Florida's panhandle

  1. #1
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    Default Another 'hoax' aiming at Florida's panhandle

    How many, how bad, how frequent must storms be before people begin to accept the climate is changing?
    How do we form a mutiny? Our new captain is navigating poorly.

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    Default Re: Another 'hoax' aiming at Florida's panhandle

    Hurricanes and storms are a pixx poor way to measure long term weather. The climate has be changing for millions of yrs. Ice ages colder and between them hotter...colder and hotter than we experience now. Ref ice ages, ref hothouse era for one. Co2 greenhouse gas existed millions of yrs ago. Ref mass extinction. Trees were discovered by the Shackelton expedition and later confirmed to have grown during the time between ice ages where ice caps are now. Some scientists say we are at the peak (heat) between ice ages now.

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    Default Re: Another 'hoax' aiming at Florida's panhandle

    Quote Originally Posted by BillP View Post
    Hurricanes and storms are a pixx poor way to measure long term weather. The climate has be changing for millions of yrs. Ice ages colder and between them hotter...colder and hotter than we experience now. Ref ice ages, ref hothouse era for one. Co2 greenhouse gas existed millions of yrs ago. Ref mass extinction. Trees were discovered by the Shackelton expedition and later confirmed to have grown during the time between ice ages where ice caps are now. Some scientists say we are at the peak (heat) between ice ages now.
    Your knowledge is limited at best. Perhaps 20000 years ago this would be just a bump. But now , with millions of dollars of real estate at the waters edge, the problem affects all of us.
    Want to just keep replacing the nit wit's house?

    Paul
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    Default

    Its common for Florida to experience hurricanes in October. October is the third most common month for hurricanes overall.

    Hurricane season runs into November.


    Climate may be changing but trying to pin the argument to an October hurricane makes-no sense.

    Kevin


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    Default Re: Another 'hoax' aiming at Florida's panhandle

    World history shows that many civilizations have died off due to "climate change" or long term weather cycles.

    While I believe that global warming is not desirable, it is not clear if the weather changes are due to "climate change" or long term weather cycles.

    If you are intent on preventing "climate change," you could consolidate your wealth with other like minded individuals and spend a lot of money in the attempt. But I think it is fruitless to convert non-believers.
    Life is complex.

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    Default Re: Another 'hoax' aiming at Florida's panhandle

    Quote Originally Posted by Too Little Time View Post
    World history shows that many civilizations have died off due to "climate change" or long term weather cycles.
    Yep, but that is a different subject. The subject of the thread is anthropogenic climate change, which is global, rapid in onset, and permanent.

    Quote Originally Posted by Too Little Time View Post
    ... it is not clear if the weather changes are due to "climate change" or long term weather cycles.
    It is not clear if local, or short term events are due to climate change or natural weather cycles, but it is clear that anthropogenic global climate change is real, and that more extreme weather events are one consequence.

    Quote Originally Posted by Too Little Time View Post
    If you are intent on preventing "climate change," you could consolidate your wealth with other like minded individuals and spend a lot of money in the attempt. But I think it is fruitless to convert non-believers.

    You suggest a plan that is impossible, fanciful, and then you use the word "fruitless" in the next sentence? Really?
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    Default Re: Another 'hoax' aiming at Florida's panhandle

    I just spent the past week in the vicinity of St. Michaels Md. Beautiful town if now catering to tourists. The locals I was talking to at the Small Craft Festival were talking about all the "nuisance flooding" they have been having this year. The high tides have just been that little bit higher than normal. It's starting.
    "If you think you are too small to make a difference, try sleeping with a mosquito"

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    Default Re: Another 'hoax' aiming at Florida's panhandle

    Quote Originally Posted by twodot View Post
    Yep, but that is a different subject. The subject of the thread is anthropogenic climate change, which is global, rapid in onset, and permanent.
    My point was that some changes were as rapid as the current changes. The deniers of change did not do well.

    You suggest a plan that is impossible, fanciful, and then you use the word "fruitless" in the next sentence? Really?
    That is your opinion of the plan. It does seem to be how change has been effected in the past. I think a current plan - converting non-believers, is fruitless.

    But continue with whatever plan you think is going to be effective. I will attempt to survive despite the plans of non-believers.
    Life is complex.

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    Default Re: Another 'hoax' aiming at Florida's panhandle

    the non-believers bought into the industry's propaganda because it means they need to make no changes in their life or lifestyle. It's just easier to bitch that there is some world wide conspiracy out there to get them to recycle
    "If you think you are too small to make a difference, try sleeping with a mosquito"

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    Default Re: Another 'hoax' aiming at Florida's panhandle

    Quote Originally Posted by Art Haberland View Post
    the non-believers bought into the industry's propaganda because it means they need to make no changes in their life or lifestyle. It's just easier to bitch that there is some world wide conspiracy out there to get them to recycle
    What he said. As a species we are incapable of making that sort of change no matter how much information we have, short term self interest rules and bu…. the rest.
    In any case it's way way too late, it's upon us now and the best we can do is plan to cope………… except that ideological politics and religion get in the way, so we wont.

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    Default Re: Another 'hoax' aiming at Florida's panhandle

    Yes, the climate on Earth has changed many times.

    So, what?

    There are people who think this present change is 'normal'.

    It's not.

    The change is happening a LOT faster, this time, and evolutionary biology has no chance to keep up.

    We are staring into the face of a mass extinction event the likes of which have never been seen.

    The central issue is fossil fuels.

    It took Earth millions of years to scrub the Carbon out of the atmosphere, and the mechanism by which she accomplished this is no longer available.

    There will never be any more coal formed on this planet.

    Ever.

    At the time coal was being formed, the various micro-organisms that rot cellulose had not yet evolved, so the trees/marshes didn't rot, they just piled up layer on layer until they became coal/petroleum/fossil fuels.

    Then we burned them, releasing the carbon back into the atmosphere.

    It will never be scrubbed out again.

    The Earth's climate stabilized into a pattern of regular, predictable seasons about 10,000 years ago, and that stability facilitated the birth of Agriculture.

    Without regular, predictable seasons Agriculture is dead, and the species Agriculture was created to feed will die along with it.

    Mother Nature doesn't give a rippin' ratfreak whether you believe it or not, either. She's gonna kill you anyway.
    Rattling the teacups.

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    Default Re: Another 'hoax' aiming at Florida's panhandle

    Quote Originally Posted by oznabrag View Post

    We are staring into the face of a mass extinction event the likes of which have never been seen.
    i dunno man, the permian-triassic extinction was a pretty big deal

    Quote Originally Posted by wiki
    It is the Earth's most severe known extinction event, with up to 96% of all marine species and 70% of terrestrial vertebrate species becoming extinct. It is the only known mass extinction of insects. Some 57% of all biological families and 83% of all genera became extinct. Because so much biodiversity was lost, the recovery of land-dwelling life took significantly longer than after any other extinction event,possibly up to 10 million years.
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

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    Default Re: Another 'hoax' aiming at Florida's panhandle

    Quote Originally Posted by Breakaway View Post
    Its common for Florida to experience hurricanes in October. October is the third most common month for hurricanes overall.

    Hurricane season runs into November.


    Climate may be changing but trying to pin the argument to an October hurricane makes-no sense.

    Kevin


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
    Seems to me the storms are a bit more frequent and stronger. From what I've read/heard of climate change, what would have been a category 1 is apt to be a 2, What would have been a 2 is apt to be a 3, etc.... Many are a log wider and bring a lot more water because the ocean is warmer.
    How do we form a mutiny? Our new captain is navigating poorly.

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    Default Re: Another 'hoax' aiming at Florida's panhandle

    There were, are, people, my brother was among them, who refused to believe a connection between cigarettes and lung cancer. He died of lung cancer at 72. I can think of at least a dozen other people I knew who refused to believe the scientists, and died from cigarette smoking. There were many who refused to believe the scientists who told us lead was bad for us.

    Virtually the entire scientific community, world wide, tells us climate change is real and a huge threat. It's almost comical to see politicians who refuse to believe this begin their floor speeches with, "I'm not a scientist".

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but the storm surges seem to be consistently higher than they have been.
    How do we form a mutiny? Our new captain is navigating poorly.

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    Default Re: Another 'hoax' aiming at Florida's panhandle

    How do we form a mutiny? Our new captain is navigating poorly.

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    Default Re: Another 'hoax' aiming at Florida's panhandle

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pless View Post
    i dunno man, the permian-triassic extinction was a pretty big deal
    That's what Noah and his arc was for right?
    10 million years, sheese!

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    Default Re: Another 'hoax' aiming at Florida's panhandle

    Quote Originally Posted by Canoeyawl View Post
    10 million years, sheese!
    Frank!
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    Default Re: Another 'hoax' aiming at Florida's panhandle

    The headline calls it a "cat 4 brute"

    "The National Hurricane Center (NHC) says Hurricane Michael is packing even more punch: It strengthened into a Category 4 storm early Wednesday, with maximum sustained winds of 130 mph. According to the NHC's latest advisory, Michael could produce a life-threatening storm surge as high as 13 feet and dump as much as a foot of rain in some places.Weather officials say Michael has been drawing energy from warm Gulf of Mexico waters, with ocean temperatures in the mid-80s.
    The NHC said Michael should make landfall midday Wednesday in the Florida Panhandle or Florida "Big Bend" area. The storm is then forecast to weaken as it moves through the Southeastern United States.
    A Category 4 hurricane has never made landfall on the Florida Panhandle going back as far as meteorologists have kept records."

    https://www.cbsnews.com/live-news/hu...-live-updates/



    and
    "Some of the worst storm surge from Category 4 Hurricane Michael is expected to hit Florida's Tyndall Air Force Base, which has ordered all non-essential personnel to evacuate.
    The National Hurricane Center's latest forecast shows as much as 13 feet of water on top of the usual waves and tides could inundate the base, which is home to more than 600 families and on an island about 12 miles east of Panama City.
    "

    Good luck down there.

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    Default Re: Another 'hoax' aiming at Florida's panhandle

    Quote Originally Posted by Too Little Time View Post
    My point was that some changes were as rapid as the current changes. The deniers of change did not do well.
    OK, combining this comment with your first post, can you name a civilization that died off due to natural climate change, and had a large body of deniers who argued against that climate change and did not do well?

    Quote Originally Posted by Too Little Time View Post
    It does seem to be how change has been effected in the past.
    Can you give an example of how change was effected in the past?

    Quote Originally Posted by Too Little Time View Post
    But continue with whatever plan you think is going to be effective.
    Straw man.

    Quote Originally Posted by Too Little Time View Post
    I will attempt to survive despite the plans of non-believers.
    Combining this with your first post, which said consolidate wealth with like-minded individuals, what cooperative have you consolidated into? Are all of these individuals well-to-do? Is this plan workable for, say, Bangladesh?
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    Default Re: Another 'hoax' aiming at Florida's panhandle

    I remember when hurricanes hit somewhere in the US once every few years. Now it is a few per year. Apparently the victims enjoy them, as they keep voting Republican.

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    Default Re: Another 'hoax' aiming at Florida's panhandle

    This seems to be the strongest ever recorded to hit where it's hitting. China sure knows how to make a hoax.

    I've got a deeper question. You can believe the scientists, or you can believe the religious. But why take the chance? I you choose to not believe the scientist, and you are wrong, there's not much upside.
    How do we form a mutiny? Our new captain is navigating poorly.

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    Default Re: Another 'hoax' aiming at Florida's panhandle

    I remember a lot of serious debate on this forum back before the ClimateGate scandals, failure of alarmist projections, revelation of faulty data & methods, America being removed as the "sucker at the table" in the Paris Climate Accord and the overall realization that the climate scam is about money and power for the global elite.

    As we can see, there are still holdouts like old Japanese soldiers on some deserted island still fighting WWII, but the giant con has effectively blown up.

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    Default Re: Another 'hoax' aiming at Florida's panhandle

    Quote Originally Posted by twodot View Post
    OK, combining this comment with your first post, can you name a civilization that died off due to natural climate change, and had a large body of deniers who argued against that climate change and did not do well?
    From your last question I would suggest that you believe Bangladesh might be one in the future. It appears groups in the Southwest US and other locations in the Americas suffered a climate change (or long term weather event). Those who ignored the change did not do well.

    Can you give an example of how change was effected in the past?
    The same way you suggest. People made plans. I think you can find examples.

    Straw man.
    Well then, don't follow a plan you think is effective.

    Combining this with your first post, which said consolidate wealth with like-minded individuals, what cooperative have you consolidated into? Are all of these individuals well-to-do? Is this plan workable for, say, Bangladesh?
    The guys I do PT with seem to be in a cooperative with me currently. We had a nice bug out during the recent hurricane. Everything went well. We moved a couple businesses, and our families to a safe location and continued our lives until we returned.

    Our plans don't require large amounts of money.

    Do you have a plan for Bangladesh? I would suggest that the people move to higher ground. But I am told the glaciers melting will cause season water shortages. Perhaps longer distance moves would be better. I suspect some will stay behind.
    Life is complex.

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    Default Re: Another 'hoax' aiming at Florida's panhandle

    Quote Originally Posted by Rick-Mi View Post
    I remember a lot of serious debate on this forum back before the ClimateGate scandals, failure of alarmist projections, revelation of faulty data & methods, America being removed as the "sucker at the table" in the Paris Climate Accord and the overall realization that the climate scam is about money and power for the global elite.

    As we can see, there are still holdouts like old Japanese soldiers on some deserted island still fighting WWII, but the giant con has effectively blown up.

    Silly.
    bccphalarope(dot)com

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    Default Re: Another 'hoax' aiming at Florida's panhandle

    Quote Originally Posted by Too Little Time View Post
    It appears groups in the Southwest US and other locations in the Americas suffered a climate change (or long term weather event). Those who ignored the change did not do well.
    You mean like the Anasazi? Were they "denialists" or just ignorant? Did some of them "make plans"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Too Little Time View Post
    The same way you suggest. People made plans. I think you can find examples.
    You are saying that civilizations have collapsed in the past, and some people were denialists, and some made plans. I can't think of any examples. Can you provide some?

    Quote Originally Posted by Too Little Time View Post
    I would suggest that the people move to higher ground. But I am told the glaciers melting will cause season water shortages. Perhaps longer distance moves would be better. I suspect some will stay behind.
    The people of Bangladesh do not have the resources that you have. They do not have the resources of just about anyone in the eastern seaboard of the USA.
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    Default Re: Another 'hoax' aiming at Florida's panhandle

    Quote Originally Posted by twodot View Post
    You mean like the Anasazi? Were they "denialists" or just ignorant? Did some of them "make plans"?

    You are saying that civilizations have collapsed in the past, and some people were denialists, and some made plans. I can't think of any examples. Can you provide some?

    The people of Bangladesh do not have the resources that you have. They do not have the resources of just about anyone in the eastern seaboard of the USA.
    You seem to think that civilizations are made up of only "denialists" or only "non-denialists." This leads you to a collapse comment. Also it leads you to want a an example of a complete collapse.

    I provided indications of change that caused abandonment of areas. Considering the known periods of drought it is reasonable to believe that long term weather patterns were a cause of that movement. It is also reasonable to believe that some people insisted that abandoning their homes was wrong. It is also reasonable to believe some of those did not fare well.

    I am sure some people in Bangladesh have made plans and have the financial ability to carry them out. There are 1.2 million Bangladeshis in the middle class with at least $16886 in wealth. That seems sufficient.

    BUt you did not answer my question: Do you have a plan for Bangladesh?
    Life is complex.

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    Default Re: Another 'hoax' aiming at Florida's panhandle

    Quote Originally Posted by Too Little Time View Post
    You seem to think that civilizations are made up of only "denialists" or only "non-denialists." This leads you to a collapse comment. Also it leads you to want a an example of a complete collapse.
    In your first comment on the thread you state civilization die off due to climate changes. In your second comment you elaborate that denialists do not do well. I wanted you to give a specific example. You have yet to do so.

    Quote Originally Posted by Too Little Time View Post
    I provided indications of change that caused abandonment of areas.
    No, you have not. You have not given an example, with elaboration of there being "denialists" in that civilization. Also noting here that with AGW the denialists are likely a different beast altogether.

    Quote Originally Posted by Too Little Time View Post
    I am sure some people in Bangladesh have made plans and have the financial ability to carry them out. There are 1.2 million Bangladeshis in the middle class with at least $16886 in wealth. That seems sufficient.
    There are 162 million Bangaldeshis, what about the other 160 million? Where will they go, and how?

    Quote Originally Posted by Too Little Time View Post
    But you did not answer my question...
    I was questioning if your plan for the outer banks of NC is applicable to Bangladesh. It is a non sequitur to counter with a query about my plan for Bangladesh.


    .
    Last edited by twodot; 10-10-2018 at 08:15 PM.
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    Default Re: Another 'hoax' aiming at Florida's panhandle

    Quote Originally Posted by John Smith View Post
    This seems to be the strongest ever recorded to hit where it's hitting. China sure knows how to make a hoax.

    I've got a deeper question. You can believe the scientists, or you can believe the religious. But why take the chance? I you choose to not believe the scientist, and you are wrong, there's not much upside.
    (Psst!!, The Chinese are training butterflies to flutter more strongly………………………….)

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    Default Re: Another 'hoax' aiming at Florida's panhandle

    From what I've read/heard of climate change, what woul
    Can you cite some that reading you've done, please?

    Here is just one article related to October hurricanes: https://www.accuweather.com/en/weath...antic/70002896

    Here's an excerpt from that:

    Screen Shot 2018-10-10 at 9.45.15 PM.jpg


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    Default Re: Another 'hoax' aiming at Florida's panhandle

    Quote Originally Posted by Too Little Time View Post
    You seem to think that civilizations are made up of only "denialists" or only "non-denialists." This leads you to a collapse comment. Also it leads you to want a an example of a complete collapse.

    I provided indications of change that caused abandonment of areas. Considering the known periods of drought it is reasonable to believe that long term weather patterns were a cause of that movement. It is also reasonable to believe that some people insisted that abandoning their homes was wrong. It is also reasonable to believe some of those did not fare well.

    I am sure some people in Bangladesh have made plans and have the financial ability to carry them out. There are 1.2 million Bangladeshis in the middle class with at least $16886 in wealth. That seems sufficient.

    BUt you did not answer my question: Do you have a plan for Bangladesh?
    You are talking about a country not much above sealevel. The place floods at the drop of a hat so where do the millions of people go, India? Given the level of sectarian violence during the Partition I think not. There are Pacific Island nations already being inundated, where do they go?
    The definition of stupid has got to be the belief that more guns will negate the bloodshed done with guns.

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    Default Re: Another 'hoax' aiming at Florida's panhandle

    Quote Originally Posted by Art Haberland View Post
    I just spent the past week in the vicinity of St. Michaels Md. Beautiful town if now catering to tourists. The locals I was talking to at the Small Craft Festival were talking about all the "nuisance flooding" they have been having this year. The high tides have just been that little bit higher than normal. It's starting.
    That's runoff due to the large amount of the Chesapeake watershed which is now paved, under roof, etc., we have the same problem in Annapolis, a big man-made problem, but seperate from climate change.

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    Default Re: Another 'hoax' aiming at Florida's panhandle

    Let me repeat my old questions: If climate change is a total hoax, but by addressing it we get off oil, onto renewable energy, get more efficient cars, better insulated homes, and create millions of jobs, what's the downside?

    On the other hand, if it is a real danger, and we ignore it, what's the upside?
    How do we form a mutiny? Our new captain is navigating poorly.

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    Default Re: Another 'hoax' aiming at Florida's panhandle

    Quote Originally Posted by WX View Post
    You are talking about a country not much above sealevel. The place floods at the drop of a hat so where do the millions of people go, India? Given the level of sectarian violence during the Partition I think not. There are Pacific Island nations already being inundated, where do they go?
    I see you don't have a plan for them. I don't think twodot has a plan either.

    I told you what I would in if I were there.
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    Default Re: Another 'hoax' aiming at Florida's panhandle

    Quote Originally Posted by WX View Post
    You are talking about a country not much above sealevel. The place floods at the drop of a hat so where do the millions of people go, India? Given the level of sectarian violence during the Partition I think not. There are Pacific Island nations already being inundated, where do they go?
    They are going to die...

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    Default Re: Another 'hoax' aiming at Florida's panhandle

    Quote Originally Posted by WX View Post
    You are talking about a country not much above sealevel. The place floods at the drop of a hat so where do the millions of people go, India? Given the level of sectarian violence during the Partition I think not. There are Pacific Island nations already being inundated, where do they go?
    Quote Originally Posted by Canoeyawl View Post
    They are going to die...
    nah,they'll end up in one of those offshore immigration prisons for brown people that australia runs
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

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